PDA

View Full Version : Why the Zero & Frank (see today's updates)?



XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 05:39 PM
Just curious, why are there models being developed for the Zero and the Frank? Is there supposed to be some far east campaign added to FB? IIRC Russia and Japan had a non-aggression pact in WWII.

So what's up with these new planes?

Johann

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 05:39 PM
Just curious, why are there models being developed for the Zero and the Frank? Is there supposed to be some far east campaign added to FB? IIRC Russia and Japan had a non-aggression pact in WWII.

So what's up with these new planes?

Johann

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 05:41 PM
It is yur bonus plane.

Made by a 3rd party.


<center>

http://www.geocities.com/warhawk530/AVG.jpg


'It is Courage, not the score, that counts ...' - Mohd Naqiuddin

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 05:41 PM
Those are 3rd party dude. So there is nothing we can do about it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif They design planes, and us, we can just simply appriciate it

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 05:41 PM
They're being put in to compete with the uber Spitfire that's currently in development /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<p align="center"> Some nude fish:
http://www.1stclassproperties.ca/mr/dr4HR.jpg
Tongue-tied & twisted,
just an earthbound misfit,
I.
</CENTER>
</p>

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 05:41 PM
roger that

Death is only the beginning

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 05:44 PM
Some third partry modelers got together, got accurate details for the model and cockit, and went to work to make a model that fit Oleg's specifications on accuracy. That's why it's being included.

.

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 05:49 PM
They're cool planes. Somebody made a 3D model for them, and there is enough flight data for Oleg to make a flight model, so why not include them?

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 05:51 PM
I think IL2 is far too good a game to limit it to one front or the other.

Besides, these non EF planes are mostly developed by third parties for free.

Regards,
August

&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];}</script>

&lt;script>var YourPicName='http://publish.hometown.aol.com/dsterl7739/images/lwshield4.gif'</script>&lt;script>var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName</script>

&lt;script>s="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/dsterl7739/images/il2%20sig2.jpg";a=doc.all.tags("table");oa = a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+s+")"</script>

&lt;script>var a=doc.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor = "#6F8D6B";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#FFFF00";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#475147";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#475147";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "#475147";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#475147";}</script>

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 05:51 PM
1939.

A minor General officer fought the Japanese using armor and I-16's.

He also defeated the Germans during the Kursk offensive, turning the salient into a major victory.

Two marks for whoever can guess his name...

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 05:56 PM
Don't get me wrong......

I will love flying the Zero. I've always liked that plane and I think it will be fun to have it as a flyable option in the sim. I was just wondering how they connected with FB in general.

Personally I'd love a sim that would encompass all theatres of the war.

I can see it now.......my lone Zero against a pack of Jugs and Mustangs......


Johann

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 06:06 PM
BA_Dart wrote:
- 1939.
-
- A minor General officer fought the Japanese using
- armor and I-16's.
-
- He also defeated the Germans during the Kursk
- offensive, turning the salient into a major victory.
-
- Two marks for whoever can guess his name...
-
-


Zhukov was in overall command of the Soviet forces during Khalkin Gol wasn't he?



We few, we happy few, we band of Würgerwhiners...
http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 06:08 PM
Why not?

&lt;script>color="#B22222";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor=color;</script>

&lt;script>color="#004477";a=doc.all.tags("table");a[a.length-4].bgColor=color;a[a.length-5].bgColor=co
lor;a[a.length-8].bgColor=color</script>

&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];};var YourPicName='http://www.p51.mustangsmustangs.com/survivors/images/T42-103831.jpg'; var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName</script>

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 06:08 PM
Russia declared war to Japan on 8.8.45./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.geocities.com/kimurakai/SIG/262_01011.jpg


Kimura

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 06:11 PM
Yep, just to get in on the spoils...

Regards,
August

&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];}</script>

&lt;script>var YourPicName='http://publish.hometown.aol.com/dsterl7739/images/lwshield4.gif'</script>&lt;script>var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName</script>

&lt;script>s="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/dsterl7739/images/il2%20sig2.jpg";a=doc.all.tags("table");oa = a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+s+")"</script>

&lt;script>var a=doc.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor = "#6F8D6B";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#FFFF00";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#475147";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#475147";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "#475147";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#475147";}</script>

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 06:14 PM
It is free, non?

I will take Apollo 11 if they give it to me for free. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

&lt;script>color="#CC0000";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor=color;</script>

&lt;script>color="#000000";a=doc.all.tags("table");a[a.length-4].bgColor=color;a[a.length-5].bgColor=color;a[a.length-8].bgColor=color</script>

&lt;script>var YourPicName='http://canflag.ptbcanadian.com/images/animated/waving/cf1.gif';var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName</script>

<center>http://canflag.ptbcanadian.com/images/provincal/small.coat/crest.gif
</center>

Zayets
06-13-2003, 06:16 PM
warhawk_530 wrote:
- It is yur bonus plane.
-
- Made by a 3rd party.

Incomplete... Should be writen like that:
It is yuor bonus plane.Made by a 3rd party. And you'll pay a full game price for it! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Everything cool , but I hope that the 3rd party devs get some money from UBI ...



&lt;script>a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor="#0000FF";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundPosition="center center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat"</script>
http://www.emicad.nl/~justdoit/il2/logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 06:19 PM
I agree with the poster that said that IL2 should not be limited to one front. I am sick of the Russian Front already. I hope they expand the game to other fronts and make this a WW2 air combat game, not just an Eastern front air combat game.


http://www.aviationartprints.com/images/kw4.jpg
"The important thing about aeroplanes is that they should be speedy." -Richthofen

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 06:21 PM
Zayets wrote:
-.Made by a 3rd party. And
- you'll pay a full game price for it!

Prove that statement. I've yet to hear that any 3rd party made plane will be sold by IC or UBI.

Regards,
August

&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];}</script>

&lt;script>var YourPicName='http://publish.hometown.aol.com/dsterl7739/images/lwshield4.gif'</script>&lt;script>var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName</script>

&lt;script>s="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/dsterl7739/images/il2%20sig2.jpg";a=doc.all.tags("table");oa = a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+s+")"</script>

&lt;script>var a=doc.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor = "#6F8D6B";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#FFFF00";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#475147";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#475147";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "#475147";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#475147";}</script>

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 06:26 PM
"I agree with the poster that said that IL2 should not be limited to one front. I am sick of the Russian Front already. I hope they expand the game to other fronts and make this a WW2 air combat game, not just an Eastern front air combat game."

OberstOberst;
No offence but are you serious?
I played Il2 for over a year and FB every day since it came out in March.
I feel like I have barely scratched the surface of the Eastern Front.

Do you mind me asking how long you have been playing?
Also, are you using all the features like skins, offline campaigns, on line coops, downloadable campaigns, etc.?

Thanks
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

&lt;script>color="#CC0000";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor=color;</script>

&lt;script>color="#000000";a=doc.all.tags("table");a[a.length-4].bgColor=color;a[a.length-5].bgColor=color;a[a.length-8].bgColor=color</script>

&lt;script>var YourPicName='http://canflag.ptbcanadian.com/images/animated/waving/cf1.gif';var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName</script>

<center>http://canflag.ptbcanadian.com/images/provincal/small.coat/crest.gif
</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 06:33 PM
Demolisher_ wrote:

Zhukov was in overall command of the Soviet forces
- during Khalkin Gol wasn't he?

I think he was. Pretty sure.

The Sovs and Nips had hot fights periodically thru the war, but Gol would make a worthy "Forgotten Battle".

Little Sov bi-planes vs the new zero and Claudes (sp).

Hmmmm. tasty


http://www.jw-design.net/SIGGINEW.jpg


The world will change when you are ready to pronounce this oath:
I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man,
nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine.

Miss A. R.

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 06:53 PM
Zhukov was in command of Soviet ground forces in Khalikin Gol. It would be a perfect forgotten battle, only the zero did not fight there. In fact it did not fight till 1940. The Japanese navy used the A5m claude. The japanese army air force used the Ki-27 Nate. The air war was pretty much the Army's responsibility. From what Ive read, the Nate kicked butt over the I-15,I-152 and I-153 that were used by the russians.

http://frenchaces.free.fr/avions/regia/g50.jpg

Incocca!
Tende!
Scagua!

Ciao!
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_henry_blake.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 07:15 PM
LW_August wrote:
- Yep, just to get in on the spoils...

Haven't Roosevelt and Churchill asked Stalin to declare war to Japan when the war in Europe was over?

<center>Qui vainc sans risque triomphe sans gloire.</center>
<center>http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/images/tempestv_t.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 07:22 PM
Never heard of that but who knows? Maybe so. But given that Japan surrendered on the 8th the Sovs declaration of war certainly wasn't any help...

Regards,
August

&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];}</script>

&lt;script>var YourPicName='http://publish.hometown.aol.com/dsterl7739/images/lwshield4.gif'</script>&lt;script>var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName</script>

&lt;script>s="http://publish.hometown.aol.com/dsterl7739/images/il2%20sig2.jpg";a=doc.all.tags("table");oa = a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+s+")"</script>

&lt;script>var a=doc.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor = "#6F8D6B";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#FFFF00";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#475147";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#475147";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "#475147";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#475147";}</script>


Message Edited on 06/13/0302:25PM by LW_August

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 07:36 PM
If I recall my history correctly the Soviet Union did not want to decalre war upon Japan because they still remembered what happened in the Sino-Russo war of 1906.

Stalin was urged many times by Roosevelt and Churchill to declare war on Japan but declined to do so. It wasn't until the war in Europe was over and that vicotry over japan by the US was readily appearant that he did so. Besides he knew the US had the A-bomb and was going to use it. All he had to do was sit on the sidelines and then get in on the spoils of war by being on the victor's side.

As for Japan and the Zero there's a good book by Zero ace Saburo Sakai that details the countries fallacy of placing all their trust in that one single design. Initial victories with the Zero gave the Japanese the false sense hat their plane was invincible. It was only after USAAF started introducing more powerfull A/c like the P-38 and the F6F did japan realize too late they needed to improve.

To be sure they did have newer designs but these came too late to do any good. Japan squandered several years where they could have improved on the Zero instead of resting on it's laurels before it was too late. Combining that with the fact they were denied access to details on larger horsepower engines due to trade embargoes before the attack on Pearl Harbor led to them always being behind the power curve.

but I digress....

There were numerous issues that when combined together led to Japan's inevitable defeat.

I still welcome the chance to fly a Zero in the sim. No matte rhow you look at it it was a pivotal A/C in aviaton history and worthy of praise.

Johann

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 07:42 PM
Forgotton Battles, can be any Battle you want.
Some people out here are Building Pacific War Scenarios using FB Maps.
Now they will have the Zero.
Also Maddox 1C have become so successfull at creating a Combat Flight Simulation that they seem to be expanding into other theatres of the War, rumour is the Med next, perhaps after that the Pacific.
Who knows, America is where the money is after all.
This Combat flight simulation really does have the potential to expand to all theatres of the War, as an example if the Med turns out to be the next Maddox Sim and a British Aircraft carrier finds its way into the Game, then the Pacific becomes easier to move on to.
We do not not know yet, it would depend if Oleg and team try to model an Aircraft carrier that you can land and take off from in a combat Sim, if the next sim is the Med and If a carrier makes it into the Game.
Thats a lot of Ifs.

However have you ever noticed how the Wind is modeled in FB in Thunderstorm conditions.
How it affects you when you take off and you wish the runway was in a different direction because of wind direction in game.
I wonder if that will tempt somebody at 1c to try simulating an air craft carrier turning into the wind to launch aircraft, or trying to model weather your plane hits one of the ******ing wires on Deck when you land, or weather you miss and have to power on and get airbourne again ( he he)

This Sim has huge potential!
There are already heaps of ships in the Game, only a carrier is missing.
Also America always gets the release first of these Maddox sims, because it is no doubt the largest consumer of Maddox Games.
America is an amazing consumer market place, look at the State of California as example, more sports cars are sold in this single American State in a 12 month period than are sold Globaly, in the same 12 month period.

One can only imagine how successfull 1C is in the American market place with a relatively cheap and Quality product like IL-2/FB.
Who knows it may well account for most of 1C sales globaly.
We all know what the yanks want too!
The Ultimate Pacific Sim

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 08:09 PM
What I really want is a sim taking place in western Europe!

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 08:24 PM
Not really a sim but here you go Stuka!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
http://www.microsoft.com/games/PC/combatfs3.aspx

&lt;script>color="#CC0000";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor=color;</script>

&lt;script>color="#000000";a=doc.all.tags("table");a[a.length-4].bgColor=color;a[a.length-5].bgColor=color;a[a.length-8].bgColor=color</script>

&lt;script>var YourPicName='http://canflag.ptbcanadian.com/images/animated/waving/cf1.gif';var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName</script>

<center>http://canflag.ptbcanadian.com/images/provincal/small.coat/crest.gif
</center>

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 08:27 PM
why not?

just because the game started on the east front, doesnt mean it has to stay there

i remember in operation flashpoint when people started making addons that wernt in the 1985 era like the original game was, so many people got p*ssed off

now there is stuff from ww2 to the future, it didnt ruin the game, only made it better

besides i pretty much only play online, i want to shoot down a zero with my p40

----------------------------------------

USA, ALL THE WAY!!
http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/362000-362999/362642_1_full.jpg
P-51, it "won the war"

don't forget to take it easy, and if it's easy, take it twice.

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 09:07 PM
Western Europe, could well be the Next Sim for all we know.
What we do know is that work on the New Sim began last October, and Oleg has already said Spitfires and Hurricanes are heavily involved.
That indicates western Europe, however would they stop there ?
I dont think so, it would seem that in the market place now, there is just not a competitor, that is prepared to lift their game and compete, with the Quality of Maddox Games.
That means the only limitations on Maddox games is the size of their developement team and the available time they have to work on projects.

We all know Oleg is a flight Sim fanatic, and lets face it, how many of us are lucky enough to be able to work and make money out of somthing we love doing?

When you look at how successfull IL-2/FB has been globaly, there is no reason why Maddox 1c would stop expanding their combat flight Sims into all theatres of WW II eventualy.

LOL they do not even have a single seriouse competitor in the market place.
They will clean up.

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 09:26 PM
Guys,
probably one of the best things will be to scream thru a B-29 formation in your Hayate.
Well,maybe next to and right up there with a Med Sim.
Let them all in!!!!!!
Madhun

XyZspineZyX
06-13-2003, 10:35 PM
BA_Dart wrote:
- 1939.
-
- A minor General officer fought the Japanese using
- armor and I-16's.
-
- He also defeated the Germans during the Kursk
- offensive, turning the salient into a major victory.
-
- Two marks for whoever can guess his name...
-
-

by the way Zhukov used the preferable tactics of attack: A center that is just to withold enemy attacks, with two strong flanks with all the heavy artillery and planes stationed. break through the enemy lines, then surroundhim and bag him. most used by German generals during the war...



is it enough for you? BTW, zhukov advised Stalin to wait during Kursk.

"An attack against a unit of Flying Fortresses was something like controlled suicide...Sometimes 50, Sometimes 80 machine guns were firing at you... You attempted to close you eyes & continue to fire, Frightened to death, Frightened to death."

Oberst Johannes Steinhoff (176 kills)


http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Lang.htm

http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg



1C Ankanor, Defender Of The Truth

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 07:28 AM
Surely the whole Manchurian campaign qualifies as a "Forgotten Battle"?

I guess the problem with introducing that as a campaign is that you also have to include all of the Japanese tanks and other "ground objects".

But once they've done that its an easy step to introducing the American's Pacific planes (and even the Seafire).

Then us Aussies will want our Boomerangs and Beaufighters too!

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 01:30 PM
KarayaEine wrote:
- If I recall my history correctly the Soviet Union
- did not want to decalre war upon Japan because they
- still remembered what happened in the Sino-Russo war
- of 1906.
-
- Stalin was urged many times by Roosevelt and
- Churchill to declare war on Japan but declined to do
- so. It wasn't until the war in Europe was over and
- that vicotry over japan by the US was readily
- appearant that he did so. Besides he knew the US had
- the A-bomb and was going to use it. All he had to do
- was sit on the sidelines and then get in on the
- spoils of war by being on the victor's side.
-
The soviet were no longer afraid of the japanese for long, do you know of palces such as Khalkin-gol or Nommonhan : the soviets inflicted severe defeats on the japanese in the end of the 30's (several tens of thousands of japanese casualties).

Perhaps is it useful to remind you that the soviet had already a war to fight with 80 percents of the german army while the US and britain "sat on the sidelines" until the germans had been beaten in the Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk battles.

BTW, before the nuclear attacks, nobody, including the US forces, except a small number of scientists (wich were not believed by everyone) knew what the A-bomb could do, and that was precisely the reason why in 1944 FDR insisted on Stalin to attack Japan : he didn't know if the A-bomb would be enough to make Japan surrender and didn't want to suffer too much casualties by having to fight Japan alone.

P.S. : the japanese suffered 750 000 casualties (150 000 killed and 600 000 prisonners of which 60 000 died in captivity) in the week-long soviet attack on the Kwantung army (for 8000 soviets killed), that's not what I call sitting on the sidelines.

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 01:51 PM
nicli wrote:
-
-
- Perhaps is it useful to remind you that the soviet
- had already a war to fight with 80 percents of the
- german army while the US and britain "sat on the
- sidelines" until the germans had been beaten in the
- Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk battles.
-
-

To bad you can't tell all the dead soldiers from N. Africa, the N. Atlantic, SEA, Italy, ..... that they were "sitting on the sidelines".



"I never saw the Me109 with the black heart again. I mention the Me109 with the black heart and "200" written on the tail."
Me109G-14 of Erich Hartmann

http://www.yeowell19.freeserve.co.uk/hartmanncs_1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-14-2003, 01:52 PM
The Russians joined the Pacific war two months to the end of the war as they took their time in helping the rest of the allies, but were quite pee'd off when the US ended the war before they could take the Northern Islands of Japan to extend their domain.

Then got even madder as FDR said your not getting half the pie for two months of work.

If you think about it even with the Germans even though they did fight them they didn't make any push for Berlin until the allies had already reached and pretty much taken France back, letting the Russian get the lead. But in that area they did get half the pie.

PlatinumDragon...

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 01:50 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
- To bad you can't tell all the dead soldiers from N.
- Africa, the N. Atlantic, SEA, Italy, ..... that they
- were "sitting on the sidelines".
-
-
I didn't mean the soldiers were not fighting, I meant that the western allies were waiting on secondary fronts until the wehrmacht had its back broken by the Red army which suffered the main losses fighting the bulk of the german army, and then sent a powerful army (which the germans hadn't met for years) against already weakened germans.

Everybody knows that there was less forces on the whole north african front or on the whole Italian front than around a single russian city but this doesn't mean these forces were not fighting.

BTW, when using the expression "sitting on the sidelines" I quoted another poster and showed how shocking it was, perhaps you should read my post twice before insinuating I offended soldiers who died in WWII (if I criticized someone, it was political authorities).

XyZspineZyX
06-15-2003, 07:16 PM
Well, the Soviets didn't face anything like a modern army when it fought the Japanese in Manchuria in 1945. The Kwangtung Army had been stripped of men, weapons, communication devices and especially aircraft for redeployment against the Americans. The Japanese had scant artillery and next to no tanks. It had no modern anti-tank weapons and AFAIK only two small Japanese Army Air force units (the 104th Sentai and 25th I F Chutai) which were understrenght from resisting B-29 attacks on Japanese positions in Manchuria. The Japanese were in such bad shape already that that unit commanders had to rely on public telephones for communication.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/japsig.jpg

The_Blue_Devil
06-16-2003, 12:45 AM
Bearcat99 wrote:
- Why not?
-
Because this game was supposed to be all about the little known Eastern Front originally. They raised eyebrows with the B-1 back in the day before you came to the community B.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>

<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.com/art2/devilart/MySig.gif> </center>

&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];};var YourPicName='http://www.angelfire.com/art2/devilart/361FGsmall.gif'; var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=YourPicName</script>
&lt;script>d="doc";doc=window[d+"ument"];var a=doc.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor = "#F0CE41";a[a.length-3].bgColor = "#000000";a[a.length-4].bgColor = "#000000";if(a[a.length-5].innerHTML.indexOf("User Options")!=-1){a[a.length-5].bgColor = "#000000";a[a.length-8].bgColor = "#000000";}else{a[a.length-7].bgColor = "#000000";}</script>

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 01:31 AM
Im suprised oleg let that zero into the game its modeled inaccurate from the exhausts to the shape of the nose. Its really a horable looking model. The cockpit hwoever seems to be coming along nicely. Im all for making the game a better experience and new planes add to the game.

Of course the first days after the patches release you will see all planes flying in fb, but after some time us hosts will be sure to have specific plane sets.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter


&lt;script>for(var pn in window){if(pn.match("doc"))var doc=window[pn];}</script>
&lt;script>var a=doc.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src='http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/Leadsk1.gif'</script>

XyZspineZyX
06-16-2003, 02:02 PM
SkyChimp wrote:
- Well, the Soviets didn't face anything like a modern
- army when it fought the Japanese in Manchuria in
- 1945. The Kwangtung Army had been stripped of men,
- weapons, communication devices and especially
- aircraft for redeployment against the Americans.
- The Japanese had scant artillery and next to no
- tanks. It had no modern anti-tank weapons and AFAIK
- only two small Japanese Army Air force units (the
- 104th Sentai and 25th I F Chutai) which were
- understrenght from resisting B-29 attacks on
- Japanese positions in Manchuria. The Japanese were
- in such bad shape already that that unit commanders
- had to rely on public telephones for communication.
-
That's true but not entirely true : the Kwantung army had been stripped of most of its air units (I don't know anything about the units you mentioned but there was at least old Ki-27s, a Ki-43 unit and a Ki-84 unit based in Manchuria, do you know if this corresponds to your documents ?).

But as far as men are concerned, there was still an enormous force in Manchuria (750 000 casualties cannot be suffered by a small force) and if they didn't have many tanks, there was nowhere many japanese tanks as these were produced in relatively small numbers and in any case couldn't (even in a dream) fight a T-34, a KV, or IS soviet tank. And that's on the same (on the whole) for anti-tank weapons.

Apart from that, the japanese force in Manchuria still had plenty of infantry weapons (rifles, machine guns, mortars,..) and a still significant (though not big)artillery force and was enough to keep the chinese army at bay for years (even if we must keep in mind that Chiang's army was not a reference for quality).

I think their crushing defeat must be attributed to the fact the japanese army was not able to wage a massive and very mobile war with armour and close air support in the open ground (a weakness already felt in the clashes with the Red Army in the late 30's) against an opponent as powerful and experienced as was the Red Army by 1945 (the chinese were far less impressive and it seems they felt they had nothing more interresting to do than, although a truce in the civil war had been agreed on at the start of the war with Japan, hunting Mao's communists who were fighting the japanese too), and to the impressively well prepared and executed soviet attack.

In the Pacific, they didn't suffer to such an extent because armour played almost no role in those island and jungle fightings and because they relied on their naval and infantry power for their initial successes (for which they focused on the use of landing attacks and naval air power)and subsequent resistance to the allied offensives.