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View Full Version : Suggestion: Increased Player Cap



AndrienGT
10-13-2015, 04:25 AM
I was excited when I first heard about For Honor, but when I saw that it's only 4 v 4 I was a disappointed. I realized there's NPC players there to help
and add to the action, but that still doesn't do much for me.

I know a lot of folks probably think 4 v 4 is ok, but I come from games that have multiplayer matches with 8 to 32 players. Titanfall has 6 players and I
thought that was too little. For Honor only has 4.

I suggest raising the player cap to at least six for more action.

Also, besides some healing spells and arrows, I noticed there isn't much magic use. Maybe add more magic attacks like buffs or elemental attacks.

Regards,

Andrien

Thodoras10
10-13-2015, 06:55 AM
With all due respect mate i dont think that for honor requires anymore players in this specific match mode, also there are gonna be modes in which there will be more than 4 players on each team but overall the number of players is pretty good. lastly for honor is a game of historical not fantasy content.

MisterWillow
10-13-2015, 10:02 AM
I was excited when I first heard about For Honor, but when I saw that it's only 4 v 4 I was a disappointed. I realized there's NPC players there to help
and add to the action, but that still doesn't do much for me.

I know a lot of folks probably think 4 v 4 is ok, but I come from games that have multiplayer matches with 8 to 32 players. Titanfall has 6 players and I
thought that was too little. For Honor only has 4.

I suggest raising the player cap to at least six for more action.

This has been discussed HERE (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1182270-Minor-adjustments-need-to-be-made) and HERE (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1182333-Small-Medium-and-or-Large-teams) (and a few other threads briefly, but these are the main ones), and the general consensus is that any more than about 8v8 would be too cumbersome for a melee-focused game, especially one with the dueling mechanics of For Honor.

That being said, they've only released info on one mode, which means the others could facilitate more players than 4v4 (though I think it's safe to assume there won't be 32-player matches)..


Also, besides some healing spells and arrows, I noticed there isn't much magic use. Maybe add more magic attacks like buffs or elemental attacks.

This is definitely not happening. The devs have said repeatedly that this is erring as near to history and realism as possible without going full simulation, meaning no magic (the healing ability notwithstanding).

AndrienGT
10-15-2015, 06:24 PM
It just seems like they could do a whole lot more with the game. Limiting a match to 4v4 would only make sense if they were worried about frame rate issues. Other than
that, it takes away from the action of the game. However, both of you are saying this is for one game mode, so I hope they will have other game modes with 6v6, or higher.
I still think all game modes should be a minimum of 6v6. I watched the videos and it was a lot of running around, but not much action with 4v4.

Now you look at a game like Star Wars Battlefront 2015 where there is definitely a lot of action going on. The rule there is killed or be killed. If you stop moving you're dead. I
they're two different genre's but my point is the more players the better. One mode has up to 40 players.

As for magic side of things, I think making arrows fly out of the air and healing yourself are magical capabilities. I see your point, they want to keep it as real as possible.
However, if they're already using some forms of magic, why not add a few more useful buffs or spells?

I come from Dark Age of Camelot. It's 8v8 and you can use magic and melee. For Honor seems to have a bit of Dark Age and Demon's Souls blended into one, but they need
to take it a step further and it'll be awesome.

I'll give you an example. In Killzone 2, you can play as the Assault class. They have an ability called "Boost" where you can run faster and get a small health regen over a
short period of time. It's like getting a shot of epinephrine. Since For Honor is supposed to be an FPS, but an FPS as melee, they could do something similar. Not saying they
have to have the exact same ability as in KZ2, but you get the idea.

Eiddard
10-15-2015, 11:23 PM
It just seems like they could do a whole lot more with the game. Limiting a match to 4v4 would only make sense if they were worried about frame rate issues. Other than
that, it takes away from the action of the game. However, both of you are saying this is for one game mode, so I hope they will have other game modes with 6v6, or higher.
I still think all game modes should be a minimum of 6v6. I watched the videos and it was a lot of running around, but not much action with 4v4.

Now you look at a game like Star Wars Battlefront 2015 where there is definitely a lot of action going on. The rule there is killed or be killed. If you stop moving you're dead. I
they're two different genre's but my point is the more players the better. One mode has up to 40 players.

As for magic side of things, I think making arrows fly out of the air and healing yourself are magical capabilities. I see your point, they want to keep it as real as possible.
However, if they're already using some forms of magic, why not add a few more useful buffs or spells?

I come from Dark Age of Camelot. It's 8v8 and you can use magic and melee. For Honor seems to have a bit of Dark Age and Demon's Souls blended into one, but they need
to take it a step further and it'll be awesome.

I'll give you an example. In Killzone 2, you can play as the Assault class. They have an ability called "Boost" where you can run faster and get a small health regen over a
short period of time. It's like getting a shot of epinephrine. Since For Honor is supposed to be an FPS, but an FPS as melee, they could do something similar. Not saying they
have to have the exact same ability as in KZ2, but you get the idea.

First of all, they want the game to be highly competitive (from the interviews it was it seems), so low numbers is better, easier to make a team with friends, better for matchmaking, it implies that one person is more important in a match, you need to know about strategy, and be coordinated with your few teammates to win the match and at the same time you need to be really skilled. Basicly like a MOBA.

No magic pls, no, pls no, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Beeing serious, those are mechanics, the healing hability it can be "explain" like a rush of adrenaline, like going berserk, you are just so focus on the battle that your injuries don't matter. The arrows come from archers, you indicate those archers to shoot where you want, is not magic, you just don't see the archers. There is NOT need for magic, the mechanics like heal, etc, are fine, but no ****ing magic, I have nothing against magic, but it would screw up this game hard. They are not using any form of magic and the devs should keep it that way.

MisterWillow
10-16-2015, 02:26 AM
It just seems like they could do a whole lot more with the game. Limiting a match to 4v4 would only make sense if they were worried about frame rate issues. Other than
that, it takes away from the action of the game.

There's also latency they have to worry about, and as anyone who's played a fighting game online will tell you, latency in a melee environment (which For Honor would obviously have) can literally kill you in arguably a more infuriating way than in an online shooter---primarily because in a shooter, you can take the various variables (time for bullets to reach their target, player movement, hit boxes, etc. plus the latency) and reason out a kill you might disagree with, whereas a melee game necessitates proper timing and spacing, knowing when and how to attack, knowing frame count for actions (at higher levels), so even knowing how to counter any given attack might not matter if the server skips for a second---and if you've tried Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, or any other fighter and found the servers are being finicky, then you'll know that that effectively renders the game unplayable. And that's 1v1, on a small stage (which sometimes only allows lateral movement), with minor effects. That is compounded exponentially with eight players running around a large arena with other AI, calling in catapults, and whatnot.

I also agree with Eiddard. The devs seem to be pushing this for competitive play, and there's at least one thread on here hoping this becomes an E-Sport with a lot of positive feedback, and that is made more difficult with larger teams.

Of course, there could be other modes with larger player counts, which could be absent from whatever competitive scene the game fosters.


However, both of you are saying this is for one game mode, so I hope they will have other game modes with 6v6, or higher.
I still think all game modes should be a minimum of 6v6. I watched the videos and it was a lot of running around, but not much action with 4v4.

Now you look at a game like Star Wars Battlefront 2015 where there is definitely a lot of action going on. The rule there is killed or be killed. If you stop moving you're dead. I
they're two different genre's but my point is the more players the better. One mode has up to 40 players.

Completely different circumstances, environments, and tactics are involved in something like Battlefront (or shooters in general).

For example, deaths in shooters occur far more quickly, and any firefight that you are involved in only lasts a couple of seconds even if you're a highly skilled player (in which case, you probably killed your opponent from across the room). You can find a position and slaughter five people in rapid succession, lob a grenade that kills multiple people bunched up. You yourself can be killed by someone you didn't see and you have no way of countering.

Melee necessitates being right in your opponent's face, and fights have the potential to be over a minute long. Incidentally, I can't wait for this to actually come out and for people to get really good, because then fight length will only go up, add to that the fact that being outnumbered can be countered and defended against. Aside from the level 4 Feats (Arrow Storm, Catapult Strike), there's no comparison between the two strategically (or even mechanically).

Moreover, a larger player count could lead to one team being overwhelmed by a team travelling in larger groups, picking off smaller groups or lone players, affecting game balance by having two, three, or (probably) more players constantly having access to all their feats. It could very easily turn into a massacre if the match falls into a rhythm of five or more players (depending on the team size) waiting to respawn at all times, which would happen if both teams take the same strategy and charge as a single unit. After that initial clash, the match would pretty much be decided by which side loses the most players the quickest, since the moment they're dead, they have the respawn time and then have to get back to where the fight is happening (if it still is happening by that point), at which point the person that's killed you has turned to someone else who was already fighting a guy, who dies by the time you get back to where you were, so now you're outnumbered, and so on until your team has next to no chance of victory.


As for magic side of things, I think making arrows fly out of the air and healing yourself are magical capabilities. I see your point, they want to keep it as real as possible.
However, if they're already using some forms of magic, why not add a few more useful buffs or spells?

Again, I agree with Eiddard here. The arrows and catapult aren't magical. The idea is that you're directing troops that are outside of the arena on shot placement. The healing can be passed off as you psychologically shutting out the pain, or amping yourself up (adrenaline). I'm hoping one of the Viking classes (or all of the Viking classes :p) have a berserk Feat, where they go into a blood rage and receive less damage, or do more damage, or make their attacks faster or something, but again, that's your Hero assuming a psychological state, which isn't the same as, say, conjuring a skeleton to fight by your side, or launching a fireball from your hands, or anything explicitly magical.

WYRDB0Y
10-21-2015, 04:40 AM
Well said MisterWillow, well said!
http://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/23/748/3748023.gif

MisterWillow
10-22-2015, 11:16 AM
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/be/36/3b/be363b0b73201af6cc23e6b855b13324.jpg

Dead1y-Derri
10-26-2015, 01:10 AM
I think we've also got to remember here: Only one game mode has been announced, we could see others with larger player counts. I do also agree with some of the points MisterWillow has brought up.