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View Full Version : Current-gen climbing is just silly



booty_fiend
10-08-2015, 03:20 AM
it's like ubisoft isn't even trying to make the climbing immersive or realistic, imo. arno, jacob and evie are superhumans who can just magically propel their body weight upwards six to ten feet vertically while climbing. it was getting progressively worse anyway. now it's just silly to look at and laughable at best.

examples: arno climbing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA-QJbPXGnI&t=0m48s), jacob climbing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UlugU8AAKM&t=7m2s), evie climbing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9kZQIoub9E&t=6m27s)

not a game-breaking problem by any means. in fact, i just laugh at the now super unrealistic animations/physics. just seems a lazy design error, imo, since it seems nothing has been learned from unity's extremely unrealistic freerunning and climbing animations/physics.

am i alone in this thought? do you prefer the new climbing animations/physics? were the climbing animations/physics of old better than the current-gen ones?

LoyalACFan
10-08-2015, 03:26 AM
Yeah, they're pretty floaty, and their jumps don't really seem to have any real effort or force behind them. But then, the series' animation quality in general has taken a steep nosedive after AC3... wonder how much it has to do with the departure of Jonathan Cooper?

HDinHB
10-08-2015, 03:40 AM
When I first started playing AC, it was stunning how realistic the running and climbing were compared to other games. You could feel the effort it took, the weight, the gravity, the strength, the thrill of catching a ledge by your fingertips, the fear of falling to the marble floor. I think the free running became too automatic, and less fun, starting in AC3, whether because of the addition of natural environment free running, or because the mechanic was shared with Liberation and had to be simplified for the hand-held user. I thought Unity was turning the corner back to more interactivity. I hoped Syndicate would improve on it, but I saw a vid of Evie jackrabbiting up the Clock Tower that is disappointing.

LoyalACFan
10-08-2015, 03:49 AM
Let me be clear: I actually think Unity's free-running is, mechanically, the best in the series. I think parkour should be relatively fluid and easy in this series simply because it's so pervasive, and the big lure of the franchise is being able to roam all over the surface of historical cities with ease. If you make it too tough, and simply getting from point A to point B is a challenge, then that's a problem. Mobility is vital in a stealth game (which is what AC should focus on being, IMO). Of course, the opposite is true as well; if you make it TOO automatic and simplified, it becomes a bore. I think Unity offered a decent sense of freedom of movement, while still having the precarious sense of being able to fall off a cathedral if you goof up too severely. I'm simply talking about the quality of the animations, and in this regard the Kenway games easily dominate (although I didn't actually enjoy the parkour that much in those games since the paths were so linear and the buildings were too short).

booty_fiend
10-08-2015, 03:54 AM
When I first started playing AC, it was stunning how realistic the running and climbing were compared to other games. You could feel the effort it took, the weight, the gravity, the strength, the thrill of catching a ledge by your fingertips, the fear of falling to the marble floor. I think the free running became too automatic, and less fun, starting in AC3, whether because of the addition of natural environment free running, or because the mechanic was shared with Liberation and had to be simplified for the hand-held user. I thought Unity was turning the corner back to more interactivity. I hoped Syndicate would improve on it, but I saw a vid of Evie jackrabbiting up the Clock Tower that is disappointing.
yeah, that really is the worst offender. that video in particular ruins the sense of "wow, i'll be able to climb up big ben!" and replaces it with "oh, i'll be able to jump up big ben..." which is less intense and rewarding.


Let me be clear: I actually think Unity's free-running is, mechanically, the best in the series. I think parkour should be relatively fluid and easy in this series simply because it's so pervasive, and the big lure of the franchise is being able to roam all over the surface of historical cities with ease. If you make it too tough, and simply getting from point A to point B is a challenge, then that's a problem. Mobility is vital in a stealth game (which is what AC should focus on being, IMO). Of course, the opposite is true as well; if you make it TOO automatic and simplified, it becomes a bore. I think Unity offered a decent sense of freedom of movement, while still having the precarious sense of being able to fall off a cathedral if you goof up too severely. I'm simply talking about the quality of the animations, and in this regard the Kenway games easily dominate (although I didn't actually enjoy the parkour that much in those games since the paths were so linear and the buildings were too short).
agreed. there is a difference between mechanics and animations/physics. unity's freerunning mechanics were the smoothest in the series, imo. the animations/physics that accompanied the mechanics were arguably the most unrealistic in the series.

D.I.D.
10-08-2015, 04:09 AM
I'm voting "great", but I don't really love it. It's just like LoyalACFan says: I love the Unity freerunning/climbing, which I also think is the best so far, and I don't particularly care for realism when mobility is the most important thing.

I'm trying to get across a landscape to achieve my aims. If I want the experience of climbing a building, I can still have that. With realistic climbing, it would take a long time to climb these buildings and I wouldn't want that every time I climbed.

The one big drawback is escape from enemies. I really enjoyed escaping the gun-wielding enemies in Unity, and the tension of having to clamber up the walls in zig-zagging movements to make myself a hard target. It won't be the same if I have a portable rope lift to eject me out of danger. I guess we'll see how that feels.

kosmoscreed
10-08-2015, 04:16 AM
I personally love it, is not perfect and never will be, I made peace with that. Said that, is true is could be better, first with more unique and fluid animations and second fixing some "I'm stuck" issues , sometimes is like they don't test their games, in Unity for example chairs drive me insane or when you want want to descend a ladder in a quickly way.

HDinHB
10-08-2015, 04:46 AM
I don't think mobility is the most important thing, but I'll concede it's an important thing. I don't think Alta´r or Ezio would be confused for two-toed sloths. If the Evie vid is any indication, it's not clear that we can still have the experience of climbing a building. The justification of the magic climbing rope was that "climbing is just too hard *whimper*." There's no need to have super easy climbing and the magic rope.

As for "realistic," I don't want it to feel like I am trying to climb the building, I want it to feel like an exceptionally talented Assassin is climbing the building.

If Ubi brought back some (optional) tomb-like levels, and made them sufficiently challenging and interactive, it would be easier to put up with less interesting free running elsewhere.

We'll see what Syndicate delivers.

D.I.D.
10-08-2015, 05:41 AM
When we're talking about mobility, it's more than the moment-to-moment movement. More a case of "I want to get there to do [x]", where a long climbing process would really interfere with your creative response to the environment, whereas being able to zip up, traverse a roof and get to that spot could lead to a much more exciting game experience. It's the same reason they added rope-lifts in ACII, after all, and you must have had occasions where a nearby rope-lift was a life saver, or others where you dearly wished you'd had a rope-lift there.


The justification of the magic climbing rope was that "climbing is just too hard *whimper*."

Who said this? I think I remember one of the devs talking about how useful the rope launcher was going to be because of the increased number of super-high 1:1 buildings. I can't imagine anyone ever said climbing was fearfully hard to do.

Assassin_M
10-08-2015, 05:48 AM
The rope launcher is just a practical solution....No one wants to spend hours climbing. Same with leap frogging. Guys, this has been a staple since the second game. Ezio climbs faster and lifts were introduced. In Unity, buildings were A LOT bigger, so the climbing became faster. In Syndicate, Buildings are MUCH taller, so the rope launcher is introduced. It's just conventional. If you don't want to use it, don't use. You'll definitely use it, though.

HDinHB
10-08-2015, 06:35 AM
You guys are forgetting that life is about the journey and not the destination.

While the magic rope launcher and the cargo lifts are at opposite ends of the believable spectrum, who said it shouldn't be in the game? But there should be more choices than too easy and way too easy. I may not want to take the challenging climb to Big Ben every time, but I want to do it at least once.

Il Duomo is 20% taller IRL that the Clock Tower. What's the benefit of making buildings 1:1 scale if you're going to making climbing 5:1or 10:1? Just for the view?

terroAssassin
10-08-2015, 07:17 AM
Some people just want to complain about everything. I mean pardon me but no one is capable of free climbing any building as fast as the assassins do.
Now the buildings get bigger and the process has to be sped up and you think the climbing has just now gotten silly?

LoyalACFan
10-08-2015, 07:23 AM
Some people just want to complain about everything. I mean pardon me but no one is capable of free climbing any building as fast as the assassins do.
Now the buildings get bigger and the process has to be sped up and you think the climbing has just now gotten silly?

It's about suspension of disbelief. There actually are parkour athletes who can perform the exact same moves the Assassins do at the same speed, but the devs have of course fudged the amount of bodily damage the Assassins can withstand, and removed the variables of stamina and mental state from the equation altogether. Most of the climbing moves you see in AC games are actually possible (and awesome to watch on YouTube if you get the chance) but exaggerated for dramatic and practical effect in the game. Whereas a wrist-mounted, gas-fired grappling hook capable of automatically reeling 200lbs of British gangster straight up the side of a building is pure science fiction.

Sushiglutton
10-08-2015, 09:42 AM
The rope launcher is just a practical solution....No one wants to spend hours climbing. Same with leap frogging. Guys, this has been a staple since the second game. Ezio climbs faster and lifts were introduced. In Unity, buildings were A LOT bigger, so the climbing became faster. In Syndicate, Buildings are MUCH taller, so the rope launcher is introduced. It's just conventional. If you don't want to use it, don't use. You'll definitely use it, though.


You can also think about this in the opposite way: Was it really all that smart to go for a 1:1 city?

It seems to me like the 1:1 city was one of the prime design goals for AC:Unity. Someone had pitched that 1:1 would be truly next-gen. I can understand that, it does sound compelling. But in hindsight it's easy to see a lot of problems with it. First off the technical ones of course. 1:1 + indoors + crowds, now that's a lot of rendering. Secondly we have the content problem of what you fill such a huge world with (don't think I need to post the icon-littered map again). Third it breaks the parkour.

To me a much better approach would have been to start from the content/parkour-aspects and then size the world. How much meaningful content can we create? What size of world would that translate to in terms of reasonable content-density? How tall can buidlings be and what elements/moves can we add so that the parkour stays interesting and viable?

Farlander1991
10-08-2015, 10:35 AM
Sushi, did you actually play Unity or not yet still? :p

I love ACU parkour and scale. I'm replaying all AC games right now, and ACU's parkour is the one I'm having the most fun with. The scale is the big part of it, it plays a huge role in the overall atmosphere. No city feels like Paris.

And the rope launcher is a solution not for the scale problem, but the wide roads required for traffic problem, and unless you make character bigger than objects, the problem is not dependant on scale. It's either that or ****tons of huge ropelines connecting between both sides of streets, and I prefer the rope launcher honestly.

D.I.D.
10-08-2015, 12:20 PM
If you want to climb the Elizabeth Tower, climb the Elizabeth Tower. If you want to rope-launch your way up it, you can. Either way, you're not teleporting; you're still taken on every inch of that journey, and you still feel the scale and the height.

We've all expressed a misty-eyed nostalgia for the Leonardo relationship with a crazy gadget supplier. As historically wrong as it would have been, we all kind of hoped Ben Franklin would be our new Q. An Industrial Revolution game pretty much demands the return of wacky gadgetry, and in fact I wish there were more, sillier things. A grappling hook has to be there at a bare minimum! We can argue about the absolute lack of realism in an infinitely relaunchable rope, but then cool-downs don't necessarily make games more fun or any harder, just more annoying (as some of us have opined about Eagle Vision cool-downs).

And yes, 1:1 was not only smart, but essential. In the old gen games, we already had cities with too many wide streets for easy leaping. It wasn't scale alone that made AC2 and ACB so traversable, but the dense packing of similar-sized buildings.

SixKeys
10-08-2015, 03:04 PM
I'm in-between. Part of me appreciates the fast and fluid movements, but part of me also missing the feel of realism and weight of the old parkour system. AC1's parkour is still amazing to me because Alta´r's slow, careful climbing really makes you feel the effort and deliberation behind each move. Slow climbing seems to affect immersion in a positive way. I still get a slight sense of vertigo when climbing the tallest buildings in AC1, just because it felt like such a task to get up there. It makes me feel Alta´r is just as afraid of falling and breaking his neck as I would be.

AC2's climbing doesn't quite have the same feel because it's faster. It's such a small change, but it really does take away from that feeling of vulnerability. Ezio doesn't seem afraid of falling at all, which makes it hard to identify with him. It just makes him look like a careless idiot. :p And from Connor onwards all the assassins don't even feel human at all. They're incredibly fast and the animations are good (albeit not as convincing as the old ones) but at the cost of precision and immersion. How many people had trouble with the simple task of making Arno go through a window? Not very assassiny to be defeated by a large hole in the wall.

cawatrooper9
10-08-2015, 04:21 PM
Visually, I love Unity's free running- it feels a bit like Shadow of the Colossus to me, in the balance between clumsiness and grace (flame shields up).

However, AC1-ACR climbing was probably the best gameplay wise. Climbing/jumping lent itself best to puzzles back then (such as the Assassin Tombs), a feature that I've only recently come to appreciate.

SixKeys
10-08-2015, 04:58 PM
In general I haven't been impressed with current-gen controls in AAA games. It feels like in their quest to create more realistic/detailed animations, the devs sometimes have to sacrifice accuracy. In the Alta´r and Ezio games, if I want to stop, I immediately stop when I let go of the controls. It's very precise. Connor and the protags after him have more detailed animations, which means they will sometimes move a couple of steps further in order to make the slowing-down animation smooth. It may look prettier, but it contributes to the general inaccuracy that started with AC3. I don't know if there's a technical term for it, but it happens in some other big titles too (like Uncharted). I want the accuracy of the old games back, even if it means slightly downgrading the animations. The PvP multiplayer was built on the old Anvil engine and it shows. In AC3 and AC4 single-player you have the precision problem, but not in their multiplayer modes.

m4r-k7
10-08-2015, 05:11 PM
I hate the free running animations of Unity and Syndicate (apart from the occasional awesome parkour down animations).
Instead of climbing, Arno, Jacob and Evie literally just throw themselves upwards which looks floaty and incredibly unrealistic. I know the parkour that Altair and Ezio isn't exactly 100% possible in real life, but it looked and felt much more clean, weighty and parkoury.

I know they have sped up the free running so much due to the massive buildings of Syndicate and I am completely okay with the rope launcher as it makes scaling buildings much quicker and fluid. I really like the rope launcher animations - how Jacob and Evie have to propel themselves forward when crossing buildings. But the core free running just feels more buggy, less accurate and has horendous animations.

I really hope that when they get out of the 19th century and go back in time to perhaps locations with smaller architecture, the free running animations will be more like Altair and Ezio with careful hand grabs etc.

BananaBlighter
10-08-2015, 05:21 PM
I don't think mobility is the most important thing, but I'll concede it's an important thing. I don't think Alta´r or Ezio would be confused for two-toed sloths. If the Evie vid is any indication, it's not clear that we can still have the experience of climbing a building. The justification of the magic climbing rope was that "climbing is just too hard *whimper*." There's no need to have super easy climbing and the magic rope.

As for "realistic," I don't want it to feel like I am trying to climb the building, I want it to feel like an exceptionally talented Assassin is climbing the building.

If Ubi brought back some (optional) tomb-like levels, and made them sufficiently challenging and interactive, it would be easier to put up with less interesting free running elsewhere.

We'll see what Syndicate delivers.

I agree that in Syndicate, now that they have the rope launcher there is no need to try and speed up the climbing. It really is quite silly when they climb leap, skipping several handholds that could have been used to get up almost effortlessly. It actually makes climbing quite repetitive, unlike in previous games where the player would realistically use handholds and ledges to climb. This was especially well done in AC1 where even foot placement was accurate, though as a whole I prefer the climbing animations from the Kenway Saga; fast paced and stunning, but not ridiculous and repetitive.

As for realistic, it was only the first games that achieved this, even the Kenways climb unnaturally quickly, but it was my favourite system because it had that balance between speed and realism. In Unity it is excessive IMO and does not feel like an exceptionally talented assassin, because that isn't even climbing, it's flying. If Evie had been climbing that tower with the Kenway system, she would have used all the handholds on the spire, got up just as quickly, but far more efficiently.

Tomb levels with Unity's system wouldn't work because there is no fear of falling off, just fear of the magnetic leaping taking you to the wrong place. I would maybe accept the climb leap if it was only used when there were no other handholds to climb.

I was hoping this was fixed when it was announced climbing in Syndicate was less floaty, but I soon realise this was only to do with leaping from ledge to ledge, not vertical climbing. While this was also a serious issue in Unity, with leaping animations unpolished and breaking the flow of the parkour (looked like teleporting almost), the climb leap is still ridiculous, not just unrealistically impossible to pull off, but plain stupid when you are skipping all the hand holds.


It's about suspension of disbelief. There actually are parkour athletes who can perform the exact same moves the Assassins do at the same speed, but the devs have of course fudged the amount of bodily damage the Assassins can withstand, and removed the variables of stamina and mental state from the equation altogether. Most of the climbing moves you see in AC games are actually possible (and awesome to watch on YouTube if you get the chance) but exaggerated for dramatic and practical effect in the game. Whereas a wrist-mounted, gas-fired grappling hook capable of automatically reeling 200lbs of British gangster straight up the side of a building is pure science fiction.

Sorry but rocketing up over twice your height from a hanging cat position is actually impossible, never have I seen anyone on YouTube do this.

Assassin_M
10-08-2015, 08:20 PM
Sorry but rocketing up over twice your height from a hanging cat position is actually impossible, never have I seen anyone on YouTube do this.
But that's been there since AC II.

Farlander1991
10-08-2015, 08:31 PM
Tomb levels with Unity's system wouldn't work because there is no fear of falling off, just fear of the magnetic leaping taking you to the wrong place. I would maybe accept the climb leap if it was only used when there were no other handholds to climb.

The only fear there was in the AC2-AC3 tomb missions was that the camera might **** up where you want to jump. That said, I would say Unity parkour is very much suited for tombs. You have slow climb, fast climb (you climb differently depending on if you have high profile button pressed), climb leap (like Ezio's, available when in low profile), wall jumps (they do have a safety measure that's true, but it can be overriden if you press the button a second time), parkour down, sliding over/under obstacles. You can make a lot of interesting stuff with that.

Pandassin
10-08-2015, 08:45 PM
I actually really like Unity and Syndicate's climbing system, it's quick and fun.

However, I do miss the gameplay from AC3/AC4 since it had more weight to it (especially AC4). If they added more 'weight' to Syndicate then it would be perfect.

bitebug2003
10-08-2015, 08:46 PM
I think the worst offender is the hanging from a wall with a balcony right above and somehow being able to jump and grab hold of it.

I tried to show that in this image

You should know what I mean though - it's physically impossible to do that (as is most parkour -- post AC3)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/Bitebug2003/unity_zpsukvq9lej.jpg

cawatrooper9
10-08-2015, 08:56 PM
The only fear there was in the AC2-AC3 tomb missions was that the camera might **** up where you want to jump. T
AC3, maybe, once they added in the RT safety run feature.
ACII-ACR, not so much. They were usually pretty straight forward, but saying the only fear is camera mistakes is a gross oversimplification.


That said, I would say Unity parkour is very much suited for tombs. You have slow climb, fast climb (you climb differently depending on if you have high profile button pressed), climb leap (like Ezio's, available when in low profile), wall jumps (they do have a safety measure that's true, but it can be overriden if you press the button a second time), parkour down, sliding over/under obstacles. You can make a lot of interesting stuff with that.
Well, I wouldn't mind them at least trying, but I just don't have faith in that as you do.
There were some Tomb-esque sequences in Dead Kings, and I found them to be more frustrating than anything, even with the gimicky torch mechanic.

BananaBlighter
10-08-2015, 08:57 PM
But that's been there since AC II.

In AC2 it's no way near as bad, there he only leaps about his own heights, not double it. At least there it looks as if it is taking effort too, not like Arno who just floats upwards. There a real people who can climb leap the way Ezio does it, but not like Arno. That said I'm not the biggest fan of AC2's system and prefer AC3's where climbing was fast but not scarily unrealistic, except for the fact that Connor never tires.


The only fear there was in the AC2-AC3 tomb missions was that the camera might **** up where you want to jump. That said, I would say Unity parkour is very much suited for tombs. You have slow climb, fast climb (you climb differently depending on if you have high profile button pressed), climb leap (like Ezio's, available when in low profile), wall jumps (they do have a safety measure that's true, but it can be overriden if you press the button a second time), parkour down, sliding over/under obstacles. You can make a lot of interesting stuff with that.

I don't know if it was just me, but as I played AC4 first and then ACB, I found the parkour in ACB a lot harder, because it wasn't as magnetic. I feel that parkour before AC3 was about accuracy not speed, which was great for tomb puzzles, whereas Unity parkour is built around being fluid but precision is lacking. It is true that especially with vaulting and sliding introduced in AC3, you could have nice fast paced tomb levels that are chase based, but apart from that there isn't much skill required for Unity's system, except efficiently switching between parkour up and parkour down. Speaking of vaulting, I was quite disgusted at the vaulting animations in Unity, they were so unpolished, and I'm very grateful that in Syndicate they seem to have improved.


I actually really like Unity and Syndicate's climbing system, it's quick and fun.

However, I do miss the gameplay from AC3/AC4 since it had more weight to it (especially AC4). If they added more 'weight' to Syndicate then it would be perfect.

Oh yes I agree I love the mechanics of Unity's system, it's just some of the animations that suck.

Farlander1991
10-08-2015, 09:15 PM
ACII-ACR, not so much. They were usually pretty straight forward, but saying theonly fear is camera mistakes is a gross oversimplification.

Ever since ACII's release the only time I ever failed in tomb was due to me making a faulty jump because of the camera.


It is true that especially with vaulting and sliding introduced in AC3, you could have nice fast paced tomb levels that are chase based, but apart from that there isn't much skill required for Unity's system, except efficiently switching between parkour up and parkour down.

Well, it's not like tombs ever required much skill other than finding the correct route. That said, there's a lot of things you can do.

Climb Leaps past obstacles firing at a constant rate.
Wall jumps from one moving platform to another.
The traditional 'wall run to side jump' thing.
An obstacle course where you need to switch between sliding and normal parkour (for example let's say we have two walls with holes underneath, on wall #1 the fire is on top giving damage if you don't slide under, and on wall #2 it's the other way around, it's an arbitrary example but just to show a point).

And that's just theoretical.

When AC1 showed up with parkour, a lot of people criticized it for 'you just hold a couple buttons and your character does everything'. That was a very frequent criticism, don't know if on these forums, but on general gaming forums for sure. And then ACB with its virtual training showed what you can actually do with that system and it's very versatile. Thing is, Unity system is versatile as well. Maybe in a bit different way, but it's not as 'just hold and the character will do everything' as one might thing if one creates a proper course.

BananaBlighter
10-08-2015, 09:45 PM
Ever since ACII's release the only time I ever failed in tomb was due to me making a faulty jump because of the camera.



Well, it's not like tombs ever required much skill other than finding the correct route. That said, there's a lot of things you can do.

Climb Leaps past obstacles firing at a constant rate.
Wall jumps from one moving platform to another.
The traditional 'wall run to side jump' thing.
An obstacle course where you need to switch between sliding and normal parkour (for example let's say we have two walls with holes underneath, on wall #1 the fire is on top giving damage if you don't slide under, and on wall #2 it's the other way around, it's an arbitrary example but just to show a point).

And that's just theoretical.

When AC1 showed up with parkour, a lot of people criticized it for 'you just hold a couple buttons and your character does everything'. That was a very frequent criticism, don't know if on these forums, but on general gaming forums for sure. And then ACB with its virtual training showed what you can actually do with that system and it's very versatile. Thing is, Unity system is versatile as well. Maybe in a bit different way, but it's not as 'just hold and the character will do everything' as one might thing if one creates a proper course.

Yes, tombs ombs, and parkour generally has never required much skill, though before AC3, doing it with speed I found quite hard personally because accuracy when jumping from one platform to another is key. That was what was nice about tombs as well as finding your way. If you fell because you were rushing (especially since pre-AC3 parkour is very slow), you're likely to start rushing even more and then you get frustrated, until you slow down, make it, and feel very happy :). Unity's parkour system is built for rushing, so you need to add an extra element to counter that.

True, if we have a course with lots of moving platforms and firing objects it should work.

SixKeys
10-08-2015, 11:28 PM
I think the worst offender is the hanging from a wall with a balcony right above and somehow being able to jump and grab hold of it.

I tried to show that in this image

You should know what I mean though - it's physically impossible to do that (as is most parkour -- post AC3)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/Bitebug2003/unity_zpsukvq9lej.jpg

That bugs me too, it's so silly. Didn't AC2 have it as well though? In AC1 I remember getting stuck under a balcony several times because it was impossible to grab hold of it, but they changed it in AC2. Maybe not on the ridiculous scale as Unity but Unity is 1:1 whereas AC2 cities are not.

LoyalACFan
10-09-2015, 12:06 AM
That bugs me too, it's so silly. Didn't AC2 have it as well though? In AC1 I remember getting stuck under a balcony several times because it was impossible to grab hold of it, but they changed it in AC2. Maybe not on the ridiculous scale as Unity but Unity is 1:1 whereas AC2 cities are not.

Yeah, it was there in AC2 as well. I was kinda thinking it was in AC1 too, actually, but yeah, 2 definitely had it because I remember discovering it while trying to climb up under a balcony in Venice and being like "Whoa holy crap"

Edit- but they were smaller balconies than in Unity. Arno looked super unrealistic floating backward to grab onto those.

D.I.D.
10-09-2015, 12:17 AM
Yeah, it was there in AC2 as well. I was kinda thinking it was in AC1 too, actually, but yeah, 2 definitely had it because I remember discovering it while trying to climb up under a balcony in Venice and being like "Whoa holy crap"

Edit- but they were smaller balconies than in Unity. Arno looked super unrealistic floating backward to grab onto those.

It's always looked extremely floaty and freakish. I'm not even sure it's worse in Unity, but there's a certainly cartoonish quality to the pre-Unity games, especially the Ezio ones. It's the leap in realism in Unity that makes those things stand out more, I think.

O/T Still playing through Dead Kings really, really slowly because I love the graphics so much. I never see anyone praising the lighting and filtering in that thing - is it not as great on consoles as on an NVidia-based PC? It's as if they made it especially for me. Sniff.

booty_fiend
10-09-2015, 12:18 AM
The rope launcher is just a practical solution....No one wants to spend hours climbing. Same with leap frogging. Guys, this has been a staple since the second game. Ezio climbs faster and lifts were introduced. In Unity, buildings were A LOT bigger, so the climbing became faster. In Syndicate, Buildings are MUCH taller, so the rope launcher is introduced. It's just conventional. If you don't want to use it, don't use. You'll definitely use it, though.
i really don't have any problems with the rope launcher, honestly. i didn't even mention it in my first post. my post is about the silliness of the climbing animations/physics now, not the rope launcher.

if anything, i'll probably use the rope launcher more often than not simply to avoid the ridiculous climbing animations.

in ac ii, ezio's climbing was a bit olympic level, sure, but the animations didn't result in immediate suspension of belief.


While the magic rope launcher and the cargo lifts are at opposite ends of the believable spectrum, who said it shouldn't be in the game?
not me. as i told the user above, i have no immediate issues with the rope launcher and will probably end up using it more often than not to avoid the silly climbing animations.


Some people just want to complain about everything. I mean pardon me but no one is capable of free climbing any building as fast as the assassins do.
Now the buildings get bigger and the process has to be sped up and you think the climbing has just now gotten silly?
being slightly unrealistic (last-gen climbing, for the most part) and being outright laughable aren't the same thing.

considering that i'm only pointing out (not necessarily complaining; as i said, this isn't a game-breaking issue or anything) about the ridiculous climbing animations and physics, i'd say my 'complaint' is pretty shallow, in comparison to others'.

EmptyCrustacean
10-09-2015, 07:53 AM
I think what AC III did in terms of making the free running more automated was inevitable. I didn't like it at the time because I too enjoyed "feeling the effort" but, honestly, its novelty is gone. We're all familiar with the parkour system now so we shouldn't have to do the jump leap-up thing Ezio learned in AC2. That said, in Unity it became too automated even to the point where Arno was moving in two strokes when I only needed him to move in one. They should give a bit more control to the player but they don't need to make it like ACII.

cawatrooper9
10-09-2015, 04:13 PM
Ever since ACII's release the only time I ever failed in tomb was due to me making a faulty jump because of the camera.


Right, blame it on the camera... :p
Joking aside, even if that was your one issue, that certainly isn't the case with everyone.


When AC1 showed up with parkour, a lot of people criticized it for 'you just hold a couple buttons and your character does everything'. That was a very frequent criticism, don't know if on these forums, but on general gaming forums for sure. And then ACB with its virtual training showed what you can actually do with that system and it's very versatile. Thing is, Unity system is versatile as well. Maybe in a bit different way, but it's not as 'just hold and the character will do everything' as one might thing if one creates a proper course.
See, I'd agree that ACB was versatile. ACII, even. Honestly, even AC1, in that you had greater direction in where your character could jump.
Remember how the Assassin tombs in ACII often featured a specific type of jump that you would be tested with (such as the final tomb testing your ability to run up a wall and jump to the side)? This was possible because the player had far more control over the character. I just don't feel that amount of control in the new parkour.
It looks prettier, to be sure, and it's not hard to get from Point A to Point B... but HOW you get from Point A to Point B is considerably more unpredictable.

BananaBlighter
10-09-2015, 04:50 PM
Right, blame it on the camera... :p
Joking aside, even if that was your one issue, that certainly isn't the case with everyone.


See, I'd agree that ACB was versatile. ACII, even. Honestly, even AC1, in that you had greater direction in where your character could jump.
Remember how the Assassin tombs in ACII often featured a specific type of jump that you would be tested with (such as the final tomb testing your ability to run up a wall and jump to the side)? This was possible because the player had far more control over the character. I just don't feel that amount of control in the new parkour.
It looks prettier, to be sure, and it's not hard to get from Point A to Point B... but HOW you get from Point A to Point B is considerably more unpredictable.

This. Even though I could always get where I wanted with Arno, it was still frustrating that I never got there the way I wanted him to go.

m4r-k7
10-09-2015, 05:01 PM
I remember in AC 1 I had to actively look for routes that would enable quick free running when being chased by guards as the usual climbing was slow which I loved (IMO AC 1 had the best free run chases out of every game thus far). For example, rather than climbing a tall building, I would free run up a small wall, rebound onto a low beam and then free run up a wall which was all really smooth and awesome. AC 2 also had a great sense of control as well.

In Unity and Syndicate you just free run up a wall like a cat (the animation looks so strange) and you just jump your way up. It was cool when in AC 2 you had to learn the climb leap which was used occasionally to overcome obstacles on a building. There is no strategy with parkour anymore which is upsetting.

BananaBlighter
10-09-2015, 05:08 PM
I remember in AC 1 I had to actively look for routes that would enable quick free running when being chased by guards as the usual climbing was slow which I loved (IMO AC 1 had the best free run chases out of every game thus far). For example, rather than climbing a tall building, I would free run up a small wall, rebound onto a low beam and then free run up a wall which was all really smooth and awesome. AC 2 also had a great sense of control as well.

In Unity and Syndicate you just free run up a wall like a cat (the animation looks so strange) and you just jump your way up. It was cool when in AC 2 you had to learn the climb leap which was used occasionally to overcome obstacles on a building. There is no strategy with parkour anymore which is upsetting.

I agree with everything you've mentioned, except I half agree with the last bit. The same way you said that you looked for different routes making you faster than the average player, in Unity you have to know when to switch between parkour up and parkour down for the maximum efficiency, the only thing I prefer about it's system.

It shouldn't be so easy to climb leap or side jump, there should be some level of skill and timing required. If they really felt like making it complex, for large leaps one possibility is that you have to hold down A, which allows the player to sort of 'swing' up and down (the way Arno gently leans back before climb leaping) or side to side. Time this with letting go and you get a larger leap. This would require skill and the fact that it takes time to pull off discourages people from using all the time, only when you reach a gap that is too large to climb normally.

SixKeys
10-09-2015, 08:17 PM
See, I'd agree that ACB was versatile. ACII, even. Honestly, even AC1, in that you had greater direction in where your character could jump.
Remember how the Assassin tombs in ACII often featured a specific type of jump that you would be tested with (such as the final tomb testing your ability to run up a wall and jump to the side)? This was possible because the player had far more control over the character. I just don't feel that amount of control in the new parkour.
It looks prettier, to be sure, and it's not hard to get from Point A to Point B... but HOW you get from Point A to Point B is considerably more unpredictable.

^^ THIS THIS A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

I would be okay with the streamlined controls and new animations if only I could get that level of precision and control back. It's so frustrating to not be able to predict whether Arno will run across the rooftop in a straight line, or veer off to the side to climb a row of chimneys instead. Sometimes it just plain messes with stealth missions. You only want to go up just a few steps because a guard is juuuust out of reach. But no matter how carefully you press forward, Arno jumps up several feet into plain view.

Jessigirl2013
10-10-2015, 12:10 PM
I never had a problem with the climbing in AC..

Until I saw the Evie demo :rolleyes:

It was when she was climbing the tower of London.... it just looked silly;)

m4r-k7
10-10-2015, 01:20 PM
I agree with everything you've mentioned, except I half agree with the last bit. The same way you said that you looked for different routes making you faster than the average player, in Unity you have to know when to switch between parkour up and parkour down for the maximum efficiency, the only thing I prefer about it's system.

It shouldn't be so easy to climb leap or side jump, there should be some level of skill and timing required. If they really felt like making it complex, for large leaps one possibility is that you have to hold down A, which allows the player to sort of 'swing' up and down (the way Arno gently leans back before climb leaping) or side to side. Time this with letting go and you get a larger leap. This would require skill and the fact that it takes time to pull off discourages people from using all the time, only when you reach a gap that is too large to climb normally.

I partly agree with the Unity thing. Parkour down was probably the best thing to come out of that game, and you are right that when you efficiently use parkour up and down, it could make for some awesome moves. However, a lot of the time it was unpredictable and it was often random whether Arno would do the side rebound thing to get onto parts of buildings. What made me even sadder was the fact that the wall rebound that has been in the series since the beginning was super unresponsive and wasn't as useful as it used to be.

I agree that they should add complexity to the parkour. I mean its one of the main pillars of the game, it shouldn't be so automated and strange looking. I am really hoping that when the next major game in the series (one that has engine changes like AC 3 and Unity) they change the parkour and make it more like how it used to be. I mean these Assassins aren't superhuman. AC 1 had it right IMO but then most buildings were smaller.

king-hailz
10-10-2015, 06:28 PM
The climbing was great in AC1 the climbing was amazing in AC2 and ACB, the climbing was Great in ACR (basically the same but hook blade made it a bit simple). The climbing was annoying and unreal in AC3, AC4 and ACRouge. The climbing was ridiculous in ACU and the climbing in ACS is well, what climbing?

Hans684
10-10-2015, 06:29 PM
The climbing was great in AC1 the climbing was amazing in AC2 and ACB, the climbing was Great in ACR (basically the same but hook blade made it a bit simple). The climbing was annoying and unreal in AC3, AC4 and ACRouge. The climbing was ridiculous in ACU and the climbing in ACS is well, what climbing?

Maybe we will be able to fly in the next AC.

Skaffner
09-16-2017, 08:12 AM
Unity and Syndicate have the worst climbing mechanics,in AC Origins that are sort of going back to the Kenway system where all you have to do is run to start automatically climing and to get down,its much like Unity,Unity and Syndicate are stupid,I have died many times because Arno or Jacob refuse to climb and i'm pressing the proper buttons,its like they get stuck on an invisible wall,I liked the simplistic system in AC Black Flag where all you have to od is run and he climbs everything with great controls,the graphics and animations may not look as good but Gameplay is more important than Graphics.

SofaJockey
09-19-2017, 07:30 PM
I liked Evie's climbing style, I think it was just fine.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ctr00esptjkreat/acs4.png?raw=1

HDinHB
09-21-2017, 01:23 AM
10-10-2015
Maybe we will be able to fly in the next AC.

Close! Good guess!


http://i.imgur.com/4bNL8c2.png