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View Full Version : Thank you Limbic for what at least you managed to do



TinBoots
10-06-2015, 08:35 PM
Despite all the rage happening on forums, those of us mature enough realize what chain of events lead to it. No one in this segment of the industry is happy to put few years of life to make a game and see it go in flames. We had feedback from Nival employees working on HoMM V years ago, there was certain input from Black Hole too, and I think it's quite enough to make picture of how development of this game went. I personally would like to thank you for at least putting the framework to experience Heroes once more, for it was little hope after HoMM 6, art and music, map editor which I really hope will be patched to work as supposed to. Good luck guys and may your next endeavours be more fullfilling.

Shredst0r
10-12-2015, 02:48 PM
Some kind words, but this won´t change the fact that H7 will fail to captivate us if Limbic doesn´t manage to quickly turn this beta version into a good game actually.
Most important points being:

- critical bugs
- performance issues
- mutiplayer issues
- more varied creature combat abilities
- balance issues (some spells being ridicilously powerful)

So Long...

Fanatic_Prime
10-12-2015, 03:43 PM
Despite all the rage happening on forums, those of us mature enough realize what chain of events lead to it. No one in this segment of the industry is happy to put few years of life to make a game and see it go in flames. We had feedback from Nival employees working on HoMM V years ago, there was certain input from Black Hole too, and I think it's quite enough to make picture of how development of this game went. I personally would like to thank you for at least putting the framework to experience Heroes once more, for it was little hope after HoMM 6, art and music, map editor which I really hope will be patched to work as supposed to. Good luck guys and may your next endeavours be more fullfilling.

So , by ,,mature" you mean ,,being a doormat".

Here is my experience:

1) I am 30 years old.

2) I paid 60 euros for this game (which I earned by the way).

3) Came home, installed it, entered the game after 20th start, (I just want you to know that I have the nividia 460 ( the graphic card itself isn't new, and that should be easier on the game, driver wise) because the game was crashing to desktop.

4) When I started the campaign, I saw the ,,intro" and ..campaign intro" a talking picture spoke and even 3DO in HOMM3 had cinematic.

5) I finished map 1, then started map 2, decided to call it a day. Next time I started might and magic (which was as hard as the 1st time, maybe they want us to keep the game on at all times) I noticed that the Continue bar is grayed out. Went to the council table and the intro ,,video" started again, like I never played the campaign at all. I went to the dungeon campaign and it offered me to start the map 1 .
I tried to load to map 2 save, but the game keeps crashing to desktop.

I started the game again, but this time, after playing map 1 for one hour, I encountered the same problem, and couldn't even load map 1. And I tried all of the autosaves but no luck.

6) Game crashed when you pick some logistic abilites, and economic abilities. When you visit the neutral dwellings and try to buy a unit that isn't there.

***Now let's get to the part that isn't hardware configuration/ operating system related in any way:

6) The AI is terrible, even on heroic. They just attack the nearest unit, no strategy, no nothing. Sometimes they use the unit special abilities , sometimes they don't. The spells sometimes work , sometimes they don't. I once grabbed an item, that gave me the clone spell, that should work only 1 time per game. I could cast it 3 times, and my spell book had 3 icons of the clone spell. The spell that makes the enemy flee after 1 hit doesn't work. My heroes that move on the map sometimes gain extra movement points for no reason.

7) There is not a single possibility, NOT A SINGLE POSSIBILITY, that Ubisoft or Limbic, didn't know that the game has SO MANY PROBLEMS, before the release. If any person played a game for 1 (in game) week, he would notice them all.

I could go on about the bugs, but I won't try to enter the game so I can read the proper spell / item names that cause problems, they know what the problems are, and they are just asking for us to report them, so that it buys them time. Lets not forget the collection pack that was shipped with a SLOT for a dvd (game and OST) but never came with the pack.

Anyway, I blame Limbic as much as Ubisoft. They knew what they were getting into, and they have a contract with Ubisoft by their choice. These are not naive little kids (Limbic) they have lawyers that protect them from something that they didn't agree too.

So let's not congratulate them yet, for a game in this state.

AunLordBoss
10-12-2015, 05:26 PM
Some kind words, but this won´t change the fact that H7 will fail to captivate us if Limbic doesn´t manage to quickly turn this beta version into a good game actually.
Most important points being:

- critical bugs
- performance issues
- mutiplayer issues
- more varied creature combat abilities
- balance issues (some spells being ridicilously powerful)

So Long...


The most urgent than those lists is to fix the game to have people like me to be able to load and play the game again. I could not play the game for a week now. I just could play the game on the first day only. After that I can't play any, not load, not new, not continue what ever. The game either just not responding or just bring me to the main menu only and each and every button in the main menu just not work and kicks me out to window screen. I then had to end task from task bar and quit. The logs had been sent to technical team about three times, each a day. They may trying to fix it. But, they seem trying to not to mention about the unplayable/unloadable issue which is the biggest issue as far as I am concern. They also trying to not to mention about high consumption of RAM. Rather, it makes me feel that they try to mention, mostly about the bugs, the balance, and etc...There are so many people like me whom currently can not even load and play the game. it is one week of unplayable, unloadable now for me.The game just sits there in front of me as dead duck laughing at me while looks like it's eyes glancing, laughing, to Ubisoft too.

Shredst0r
10-13-2015, 12:07 PM
Well I suppose the problems you experience go with "critical bugs", like the memory leak that appears to be a problem.
Also the game doesn´t seem to perform well on slightly older systems.
Dunno how your system specifications look like, but did you check the minimum system requirments?

mbpopolano24
10-13-2015, 12:37 PM
Thank you for the thread. I am having a blast with HMM VII, I can only image how fun it will be when most issues will be fixed. Of course people will continue their rants, apparently some take offense that other people are enjoying the game, considering that they cannot. It is a very juvenile attitude, no matter the age. I have high hope for the editor and what the community will be able to do with it.

Fanatic_Prime
10-13-2015, 12:50 PM
Thank you for the thread. I am having a blast with HMM VII, I can only image how fun it will be when most issues will be fixed. Of course people will continue their rants, apparently some take offense that other people are enjoying the game, considering that they cannot. It is a very juvenile attitude, no matter the age. I have high hope for the editor and what the community will be able to do with it.

You think I like coming to this forum? I would rather be doing something else, but here is the thing:

The people are coming to this forum because the critical gamebreaking bugs are preventing us from playing the game that we paid for. And those bugs aren't in my imagination, it's listed right here on the forum. And if you ever played the heroes game ever, and you somehow managed to have the exact same computer configuration as the developer (which I doubt), and skipped those bugs (a miracle) you would notice that the AI of your opponent has the IQ of a 6 year old, and that the animations aren't animations at all, but talking pictures, and that the game uses at least 50% of the models from the previous game, and that the spells don't work. And that skills don't work, and that the majority of the forum is filled with people who are angry for a reason that ubisoft is once again, testing the game on them.

And we are not "people ranting" who are ,,angry at you for having fun", we are people who got scammed, and who are angry at people like yourself, who is in denial, or paid to ignore the fact that this game is in beta.

Have fun

PaleAle2012
10-13-2015, 02:49 PM
Well said Fanatic Prime. Are people really that gullible to think they are playing a quality AAA title, is it any wonder game publishers keep dishing out rubbish like this. The minority coming in here calling us spoilt kids stamping our feet beggars belief, i was more pissed off that Ubisoft was trying to fleece me than not being able to enjoy the game. Anyone that states they see no major issues with this H7 are either in complete denial or there is something fishy going on as the game is broken in so many ways. Why aren't Limbic in here trying to calm things down?, where are the patch progress updates they promised?. Limbic, U Suck....

QA_Vorchun
10-13-2015, 03:07 PM
Why aren't Limbic in here trying to calm things down?, where are the patch progress updates they promised?. Limbic, U Suck....
Because that's how it always is with big publishers. You never hear from actual developers but from some liason/community manager from publisher. That's why making patches can take weeks and months instead of days, bc it has to pass through lo-o-o-o-ng publisher pipeline. If it was some small indie company patching would go much faster, but this isn't, so all we can do is sit tight and wait. I'm not expecting another Heroes game in a long time so it doesn't really matter for me, what matter is they fix the game, however long it takes.

mreed2
10-13-2015, 03:36 PM
7) There is not a single possibility, NOT A SINGLE POSSIBILITY, that Ubisoft or Limbic, didn't know that the game has SO MANY PROBLEMS, before the release. If any person played a game for 1 (in game) week, he would notice them all..

It is manifestly obviously to me that this is true -- they might not have realized the magnitude of the OS / HW / SW configuration problems, but they certain knew that they hadn't done enough QA work to fully quantify these risks, and the limitations (~= "absence") of the AI in tactical battles is blatantly obvious.

Thus, the only reasonable conclusion is that there was no more money available for development and the choices were to drop the game altogether or ship what they had. So, would pick one:

1) The HOMM 7 that you have today
2) No HOMM 7 at all (perhaps ever, but certainly not for several more years)

?

Quique30
10-13-2015, 04:00 PM
Well, I think the real question is whether the game can survive all these hits.

So, in that light I'd rather choose 2.

PaleAle2012
10-13-2015, 04:11 PM
You never hear from actual developers but from some liason/community manager from publisher. That's why making patches can take weeks and months instead of days,

We have more chance of hearing from Jimmy Hoffa than we do from our Community manager who stated "Patch 1 should provide over 120+ fixes we will detail in the upcoming days." Those days are now turning to weeks. I don't really care how long it takes them to fix the game either as i have no intention of buying it till it's in the bargain bin " which won't take long i might add" but those that have resisted getting a refund deserve better than this. Ubi-MoshiMoshi should at the very least Do As He Said He Would & give some details on what's is being done.

Ubi-MoshiMoshi
10-13-2015, 04:12 PM
Hi PaleAle2012, we will have an update soon.

Regards

PaleAle2012
10-13-2015, 04:25 PM
we will have an update soon.

Regards

This is a recording.

QA_Vorchun
10-13-2015, 04:30 PM
Hi PaleAle2012, we will have an update soon
Let's hope this is not Blizzards Soon™ but actual human "soon" as in next day or two.

PaleAle2012
10-13-2015, 04:52 PM
Let's hope this is not Blizzards Soon™ but actual human "soon" as in next day or two.

There up to their necks in it, i wouldnt hold your breath.

Fanatic_Prime
10-13-2015, 05:09 PM
It is manifestly obviously to me that this is true -- they might not have realized the magnitude of the OS / HW / SW configuration problems, but they certain knew that they hadn't done enough QA work to fully quantify these risks, and the limitations (~= "absence") of the AI in tactical battles is blatantly obvious.

Thus, the only reasonable conclusion is that there was no more money available for development and the choices were to drop the game altogether or ship what they had. So, would pick one:

1) The HOMM 7 that you have today
2) No HOMM 7 at all (perhaps ever, but certainly not for several more years)

?

Let's go with the option

3) Getting what you paid for.

I know it's not as romantic of a choice, but it's a choice still. There will always be games from our childhood that get remade, for instance , Need for Speed, Dungeon Keeper, Neverhood, Rayman, add more to the list...

I chose to pay for those games, and wasn't disappointed. I know that it would be less fun to wait for a decent developer to come along then playing the bugged game, but these other game remakes would make the time pass by so we can afford to wait. And I refuse to believe that we should ever be happy with what we got in the contrary to the alternative (no game at all), because ubisoft is destroying a legacy here, with Heroes 6 and 7. And changing people's fond memory of a game with rage. So I will just go with "I want to receive what I paid for and I will be on my way"


Hi PaleAle2012, we will have an update soon.

Regards


This is a recording.

Best answer ever :D. And 100% True.

mreed2
10-13-2015, 05:16 PM
Well, I think the real question is whether the game can survive all these hits.

So, in that light I'd rather choose 2.

Arguably, that would have been the better option (for the franchise) -- there will never e another Simcity title in all likelihood as a consequence of the Simcity 2014 "release".

On the other hand, Limbic would have certainly gone bankrupt if the game hadn't been released (as they would have been required to refund any funds received for development to Ubisoft), and Ubisoft would have lost considerable money themselves (even in the unlikely event that they recovered even 50% of the funds they put in to fund development, they still wouldn't have the revenue that they expected this game to generate).

And, it is important to note that the game does work more or less properly on many users computers -- I was able to complete 3 out of the 5 campaigns with only minimal issues (one I haven't tried to complete, one suffered from the "can't load save games" issue). That doesn't mean that I didn't run into any issues (especially the horrible AI), but the issues weren't game blocking. From a business perspective, the question that needs to be asked is "If 25% of our buyers are going to have an utterly unacceptable experience, another 25 % will have a highly questionable experience, and the rest will have a dubious experience, will the reputation hit that we will take for releasing it less expensive than the cost of properly finishing development or writing off the investment?"

I suspect that Ubisoft made the right decision in this case -- HOMM is a fairly small, niche, title, so any reputation impacts will be limited in scope, and there is at least a 50-50 chance that the most catastrophic bugs (can't run at all, can't load saves, can't finish campaigns) will be fixed within 4 weeks of launch. It isn't likely that the launch is bad enough to kill the HOMM franchise for all time -- at worst, you'll need to put it on a shelf for 2-3 years before the next title is released, and that's acceptable because HOMM is clearly not a core part of UbiSoft's business plan in any case.

As a fan, that kind of analysis doesn't fill me with enthusiasm, but I can see how it makes sense from a business perspective.

Note that the implication of the above analysis is that the more minor bugs (various effects not working properly, UI glitches, the "AI", and so forth) won't be fixed -- the limited funding available for patches will be dedicated to fixing the most critical issues, at which point they will drop support. Why keep throwing additional money at a game that was never going to be a big money earner in the first place that is now burdened with massive weight of negative (and, mind you, 100% justified, negative reviews and press)?

Quique30
10-13-2015, 06:34 PM
Well, considering the game was already in production, releasing at a much lower cost or delaying it would have been a better option for fans and bussiness alike, IMO.

Because, unless Ubi is thinking of milking the franchise and then throw it away, I don't know for how much longer players will be accepting this "pay full price for half-cooked games" deal. And it's precicely because I agree that HOMM is a niche and attracts the same kind of people, that if you make a HOMM game, it's quite likely that the customers know first hand your history with the game and resist bying it.

That is my concern.

mreed2
10-13-2015, 07:23 PM
Lowering the price wouldn't reduce the backlash (unless they lowered it way down, like $5 or less) -- a broken cheap game is going to get the same reviews as a broken expensive game and perhaps worse (people will take a chance on a cheap game but are far more likely to be critical).

Delaying the game is the best solution for the fans, clearly, but it seems like Ubisoft is trying to develop these games on a fixed budget basis, likely because they believe they can project the revenue figures very accurately. So, if the game is going to earn $1 million in revenue, and you want a 10% profit, you plan on spending $900k and shipping whatever you have at that point (or canceling the project).

If I were the one making the decision, and all of the above information is correct, then I probably would have held it back another 2 months before releasing it, as the guaranteed short-term loss would be somewhat compensated for in hoped for future releases. But if it was a game that I didn't care about at all, I might well make a different decision -- and the person that made the "ship / cancel / delay" decision probably has never played HOMM before and is purely making his evaluation based on the expected revenue vs. costs incurred.

PaleAle2012
10-14-2015, 12:52 AM
Mreed2, you make a valid argument & when it comes to Ubisoft i think your argument is spot on however i do think Ubi need to change their policy as people who buy thru Steam can now get refunds. We are yet to see the repercussions on game publishers since Steam has taken this approach but surely it will make them take notice. I realise not everyone uses Steam because they are trying to save a buck but in an ironic twist this game has left Steam looking like a Champion of the Oppressed & nothing but good advertisement for them " why do you think they are refunding after 30hrs of gameplay". I know that from now on i intend to exercise my refund right with any game that is of poor quality & then pick it up 12mths later in an acceptable state both in playability & affordability. Screw Ubisoft for taking a 20yr old franchise & hacking it to death, surely if they took their time with this game & give it the polish it deserves they would reap profit & attract a whole new audience that has never played the game. I hope they go bankrupt from their greed.

MrD69
10-14-2015, 05:45 PM
Despite all the rage happening on forums, those of us mature enough realize what chain of events lead to it. No one in this segment of the industry is happy to put few years of life to make a game and see it go in flames. We had feedback from Nival employees working on HoMM V years ago, there was certain input from Black Hole too, and I think it's quite enough to make picture of how development of this game went. I personally would like to thank you for at least putting the framework to experience Heroes once more, for it was little hope after HoMM 6, art and music, map editor which I really hope will be patched to work as supposed to. Good luck guys and may your next endeavours be more fullfilling.

If they can even fund another game after this disaster. Ubi needs to sell the rights to a company that cares.