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View Full Version : Whose blood line are we following, Jacob or Evie's?



EmptyCrustacean
10-06-2015, 12:55 PM
As they are twins I am assuming that by default the subject can access both their memories but I'm also assuming, given the 70%/30 % ratio for screen time, that we are following Jacob's line? That said, I can't imagine Jacob putting his ***** in any woman tbh seeing as he has the emotional and mental maturity of a 10-year-old.

ze_topazio
10-06-2015, 01:02 PM
Both, you can't relieve their memories if they left no descendancy.

EmptyCrustacean
10-06-2015, 01:09 PM
Both, you can't relieve their memories if they left no descendancy.

I just thought that by default if we follow one blood line that can extend if they have a twin? If you're following both won't that create complications somehow?

dxsxhxcx
10-06-2015, 01:30 PM
I just thought that by default if we follow one blood line that can extend if they have a twin? If you're following both won't that create complications somehow?

this scenario is no different than the one we had with the co-op missions in Unity, now that we only need a person's DNA sample to relive his/her memories, we can control as many people as we want in the same emulation...

Think of the setting as the Matrix (built based on the information stored on people's DNA) where you are Neo or any other person of Morpheus' crew using someone's else avatar.

People are paying too much attention to the fact that the protagonists are twins when that's irrelevant as far as the animus is concerned, we are simply reliving the memories of two different subjects (=/= animus users) at the same time (read: in the same emulation)

cawatrooper9
10-06-2015, 02:12 PM
I've thought about this as well. The only logical conclusion that I've come to is that the Fryes get a little bit Lannister at some point, if ya know what I mean.

VestigialLlama4
10-06-2015, 02:28 PM
Both, you can't relieve their memories if they left no descendancy.

That is absolutely not true at all. As per Black Flag, you are able to relive memories of Desmond's ancestors even if Desmond is dead and the Data Dump Scanner means that you just need DNA samples to sequence and presto you can explore it. So it's entirely possible, if you can find the bodies or remains or graves of some people, to sequence and relive their memories. Now whether DNA survives is entirely a matter of the body being preserved properly, like Germain's body at the end of Unity was not preserved well at all, so the DNA is useless.

It would be a simple matter of finding the graves of the Frye Twins or say a Blood Vial and you can relive their memories in the present. And in real-life they were able to do DNA analysis of Richard III's corpse which was found recently and that was 600+ years. So two Victorians in the 19th Century if they are well preserved can be excavated and harvested.


As they are twins I am assuming that by default the subject can access both their memories but I'm also assuming, given the 70%/30 % ratio for screen time, that we are following Jacob's line? That said, I can't imagine Jacob putting his ***** in any woman tbh seeing as he has the emotional and mental maturity of a 10-year-old.

As I said above, he doesn't have to have a child to have his DNA available for future use. The Animus has changed since Black Flag.

The reason why the Animus allows you to switch between them is that obviously Evie and Jacob shared memories, they did many activities together as twins and Assassins, and were virtually inseparable so for the Animus they can render a single simulation of London for both characters to play in, allowing you to switch in the game.

ze_topazio
10-06-2015, 03:32 PM
That is absolutely not true at all. As per Black Flag, you are able to relive memories of Desmond's ancestors even if Desmond is dead and the Data Dump Scanner means that you just need DNA samples to sequence and presto you can explore it. So it's entirely possible, if you can find the bodies or remains or graves of some people, to sequence and relive their memories. Now whether DNA survives is entirely a matter of the body being preserved properly, like Germain's body at the end of Unity was not preserved well at all, so the DNA is useless.

It would be a simple matter of finding the graves of the Frye Twins or say a Blood Vial and you can relive their memories in the present. And in real-life they were able to do DNA analysis of Richard III's corpse which was found recently and that was 600+ years. So two Victorians in the 19th Century if they are well preserved can be excavated and harvested.



As I said above, he doesn't have to have a child to have his DNA available for future use. The Animus has changed since Black Flag.

The reason why the Animus allows you to switch between them is that obviously Evie and Jacob shared memories, they did many activities together as twins and Assassins, and were virtually inseparable so for the Animus they can render a single simulation of London for both characters to play in, allowing you to switch in the game.

I don't think that has been confirmed yet, so for now they need descendants, I don't want the animus technology to become even more over the top than already is.

VestigialLlama4
10-06-2015, 03:42 PM
I don't think that has been confirmed yet, so for now they need descendants, I don't want the animus technology to become even more over the top than already is.

Well the main advantage post-Black Flag with harvesting DNA from the Dead is that you have genuine suspense. You can't take it for granted that the protagonist will survive till he hooks up with a girl, he-she can be killed anytime buried and then harvested later. And also you can have gay and bisexual assassins since the need to procreate is not necessary anymore.

That's why UNITY and ROGUE didn't tell us where they got the DNA from at the start, except that it's not Desmond. In Syndicate likewise we don't know the protagonist of the Jack the Ripper DLC because there is real suspense. In the case of ROGUE, the game hints heavily that Shay's memories were harvested from his body and didn't really come from a descendant since Da Costa and Otso Berg keep expressing surprise that Shay survived certain events, which wouldn't make sense if it came from a descendant because then they would know that Shay would live till he married/one-night-stand whatever.

And I don't see how this makes the Animus over-the-top, in fact it makes it more grounded.

cawatrooper9
10-06-2015, 03:45 PM
And I don't see how this makes the Animus over-the-top, in fact it makes it more grounded.
Agreed.
However, in this specific case of having two playable protagonists with different bloodlines, I guess we're just supposed to assume that these two bloodlines have been merged into one simulation? That's not that complicated either, but I wish this was a bit more of a focus on the series, as it used to be. I've always found ancestry to be interesting.

Senningiri_GR
10-06-2015, 03:55 PM
Firstly, the Helix is only different from the Animus in the fact that the Helix is more upgraded and used from everybody (Animus Multiplayer Stage 3 and 4 had it too, but anyway)

I've thought about this as well. The only logical conclusion that I've come to is that the Fryes get a little bit Lannister at some point, if ya know what I mean.

That would be horrific! I think it is more possible that they had descendants that were married and so passed the memories to one individual (for example very very long distant cousins)

VestigialLlama4
10-06-2015, 03:55 PM
However, in this specific case of having two playable protagonists with different bloodlines, I guess we're just supposed to assume that these two bloodlines have been merged into one simulation?

Yeah they did. And there's a good reason why it worked. They are twins they worked together, hung out each other, and in sequencing Jacob's memories Evie was often there, in sequencing Evie's memories, Jacob was often there. Obviously by mixing and matching DNA they found that the Animus rendered the same memories and freeroam most of the time, so it was easy to do it. Especially if it led to a certain period of greater common interactions, 1868.

VestigialLlama4
10-06-2015, 03:58 PM
That would be horrific! I think it is more possible that they had descendants that were married and so passed the memories to one individual (for example very very long distant cousins)

Or they got two different blood samples (from two different descendants, from two different corpses, different blood vials) and rendered memories in an era where they spent most time with each other, that meant for two protagonists, the Animus had to render one time and one place.

It's different with Haytham and Connor, two protagonists, the same general place but two different periods altogether.

dxsxhxcx
10-06-2015, 05:24 PM
It's different with Haytham and Connor, two protagonists, the same general place but two different periods altogether.

the place has nothing to do with it, Desmond was able to control Haytham at the beginning of the game and then Connor because he was a direct descendant of both of them, Connor and his descendants up until Desmond all had Haytham's memories until the point Haytham and Zio had sex and made Connor.

cawatrooper9
10-06-2015, 05:29 PM
the place has nothing to do with it, Desmond was able to control Haytham at the beginning of the game and then Connor because he was a direct descendant of both of them, Connor and his descendants up until Desmond all had Haytham's memories until the point Haytham and Zio had sex and made Connor.

Right, they represent a continuous bloodline unlike Jacob and Evie who (again, unless they go all Jamie.Cersei) would represent a split of the bloodline, as would any non-incestuous siblings.

I-Like-Pie45
10-06-2015, 05:57 PM
what's so bad about that, it's not like it's any less ethical than any other sort of romance in the world

Sorrosyss
10-06-2015, 07:28 PM
Bearing in mind that it is on the Helix platform, this technically means you are running off the cloud software. As a result, the whole story could be completely fabricated by Abstergo. Jacob and Evie may not have even existed. We know they like to adjust things to their own needs, most evident in AC Liberation in fact.

Trust nothing you see!

*tin foil hat*

Farlander1991
10-06-2015, 08:10 PM
No need for incest :p Two different bloodlines put together into one simulation is a perfectly reasonable explanation, especially considering that this kind of thing was experimented with since ACB multiplayer (where it was a very abstract simulation, but, you know, technologies advance and such :) ).

I-Like-Pie45
10-06-2015, 08:14 PM
No need for incest :p Two different bloodlines put together into one simulation is a perfectly reasonable explanation, especially considering that this kind of thing was experimented with since ACB multiplayer (where it was a very abstract simulation, but, you know, technologies advance and such :) ).

And there's no need for you to act like a bigot.

VestigialLlama4
10-06-2015, 08:44 PM
And there's no need for you to act like a bigot.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect)The Westermarck Effect is a real thing Pie. And incest is scientifically a source for lots of problems.

It is true that there should be less judgmental portrayals of incest but for that people need to treat it as something real and not for the sake of exploitation which it usually is. AC is not the place for that.

Anyway...

I-Like-Pie45
10-06-2015, 09:10 PM
I am no pie I am a dog

EmptyCrustacean
10-06-2015, 10:36 PM
ooookkkkkk too much technical jargon for me so I'm going to wait until the game comes out and see Ubi's explanation lol


(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect)The Westermarck Effect is a real thing Pie. And incest is scientifically a source for lots of problems.

It is true that there should be less judgmental portrayals of incest but for that people need to treat it as something real and not for the sake of exploitation which it usually is. AC is not the place for that.

Anyway...

There is nothing wrong with incest provided that the siblings are adults and don't have children together.

Journey93
10-06-2015, 10:56 PM
And there's no need for you to act like a bigot.

Incest is disgusting man. Go back watching anime, they like that sort of fetish.
We don't need that **** in AC

Locopells
10-07-2015, 12:05 AM
Okaaay, moving on...

JamesFaith007
10-07-2015, 12:27 AM
And what about another easy explanation - sample from person, who is descendant of twins's offsprings but lets say 6 generations later.

His/her parents would be sixth cousins and there would be big chance they even wouldn't know about their relations.

VestigialLlama4
10-07-2015, 04:45 AM
And what about another easy explanation - sample from person, who is descendant of twins's offsprings but lets say 6 generations later.

His/her parents would be sixth cousins and there would be big chance they even wouldn't know about their relations.

The twins were born in 1847, so you are talking for inter-cousin marriages in the course of a 100 years by say the 1980s-ish. The problem is that would put the sixth generation in the 20th Century where cousin-marriages, formerly tolerated in medieval times (but I doubt ever between descendants of twins) have become rarer and subject to greater taboo.

The logical explanation of it coming from two different blood samples sequenced together simply makes far more sense. One blood sample could come from a descendant, another could come from a corpse, also two descendants, two corpses or blood vials. By getting rid of Desmond, whose descent guaranteed that all his ancestors would have to hook up and marry, you open doors for all kinds of ways in which the story can transpire.

I-Like-Pie45
10-07-2015, 04:56 AM
who says they have to be biological twins

they could be two people born to separate parents on the same day at the same hour, but raised as siblings

just like that cartoon

or maybe jacob is just a figment of evies schizophrenic imagination