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View Full Version : My impressions/evaluation on MMH 7



ramborusina
10-04-2015, 03:05 PM
To put it shortly, if you've played previous parts of the series you got no real reason to play H7. The game shines in absolutely nothing. The game-play feels very mechanical and tiring. Already in my first map I started to use quick battles because I found myself bored and hating the battles which I used to love in past games. The AI is horrendous in this game(worst in the series), offering no challenge at all even on heroic(hardest difficulty). The battles in general will get harder, but only because they got more enemies which means more EXP so you level faster and after the start it actually becomes easier than easy games if you know how to optimize your hero. The animations/sounds are just lacking, which is pathethic considering so much was taken from h6 that did them better. The game should not have been launched in this state(beta)! It shows either huge amount of disrespect to buyers, incompetence of developer or just plain disrespect to the series. This game would've needed at least 4-6 months of polishing and fixing. Given how slowly h6 got fixed and how it still doesn't work for everybody properly I strongly suggest you take a pass on this game or at the very least wait minimum of 6 month or till first expansion before buying this game.

H7 skill-system is heavily based on H6 and I personally hate the optimization it brings. Every game you end up building your hero the exact same way(which you know since start of the match). Because how some classes are much superior compared to others it doesn't help to diversify game either as you will want to pick the good classes and heroes which are clear minority in the game. I loved in pre h6-games how you were forced to analyze and evaluate what skills you should pick for the situation. H7 has none of that because it's just general build, the game lacks situational abilities completely. The system also doesn't require you to think what to get because there are no requirements for abilities nor is there limit how many you can take per skill. Ohh and unique abilities also shine with their absence aside the ones in racial skill which are also same for all heroes inside the faction. To make it worse there is a lot of overlap between factions. And to make it even worse than that there is overlap in skills/abilities and spells even in general which makes them feel anything but unique and specialized. That is also part of the optimization problem because for example with defense hero you will keep stacking and stacking defensive stuff to the point that big stacks do absolutely nothing to your stack or with mage you just keep buffing spellpower via luck/wisdoms/racial to the point you wash out giant enemy stacks in large area. Also within the skills it doesn't really feel like there is much choice in what to get(part of optimization problem) as when you look at the abilities they are often choice of magic, might, neutral/governor ability.

Magic system is yet another h6 feature. You are back to more classic approach on getting spells from magic guilds. Problem is that all schools have little bit of everything and at basic level most spells are just copies of each other. To make them any different you have to specialize in them via abilities. And to get more power to spells you have to learn other spell-schools which you have to do anyway because you can't master your school because of the new arcane system(learning high level spells requires 8 points and mastering single school only gets you 6). Even in general it doesn't feel like schools specialize in anything particular which is just sad, not to mention many iconic spells are also dearly missed. Great example of fixing something yet again that wasn't broken!

Hero specializations are utter crap. They are generic boring start bonuses that make you feel like you're playing nobody/anybody instead of being the mighty Kragh or whatever. The same bonuses are also copy-pasted all over and some copied from other places like buildings. They just simply leave you disappointed... Btw they are pretty much h6 specs except worse and no dynasty either to work on the side.

Unit abilities don't really do much better either. There is so much copy-paste mentality there it's not even funny. That doesn't get helped by the fact that units have pretty much 1-3 abilities so there being same abilities over and over makes units feel too similar. Which is even further hurting the game because units stats are kept with too small margin. All units cross the battle-field for example at turn two, the unit powers are roughly the same given their growth. Even in h6 units felt more distinctive and that by the way is not a compliment. This is partly because h7 decided to use the hated 3-tier system from h6(core/elite/champion). They did edit it adding powerful version to core and elite, but it's still a far cry from old 7-tier system which had a lot more variety in comparison. Also "spell-caster -units" don't have spell-book like in h4 or h5, they have simple button that certainly doesn't help with immersion(hated that in h6)!

The battle-system they copied from h6 which wasn't that good. They also lost many of the good parts like map objects and creature-placing to tower. They added flanking mechanic from Heroes Online to system which was a bad decision. In essence it means you get extra boost to damage when attacking from back/side. The result is that player either plays turtle so you can't back-stab them(at least till you get near and then he does that to you first) OR it makes units waltz around each other going for back-stabs which looks absolutely idiotic. The flanking system would have been great addition as ability for some units like assasin or harpy, but when all units keep running around each other it just looks sad and pathetic. The flanking just feels half-baked, they copied it only partly not even making it as good as it was in Heroes Online.
Also what was promised was different size battle-grounds which I've only seen in campaign so far. I mean there are minor differences in size possibly(not sure), but when battle goes the exact same way battle to battle and turn I feel something is just wrong(also the skill system makes the battles work basically exactly the same every battle).
On the bright side neutral armies can consist of multiple different stacks though I really wish they didn't show how units are split(it makes fights too predictable) and also I miss the old few/dozen/legion -type amounts. Just having plain numbers makes them look and feel so mechanical and it breaks immersion. The game also lack boss-battles which were a great feature added by h6(one of few good sides of the game).

AI is terrible in h7. It doesn't seem to understand value of different units or their numbers. It also didn't seem to understand or see obstacles as it often get stuck on some rock it could simply move around. Instead it starts moving up and down without ever getting past the obstacles. Also the AI has no coordination between units. Too often I saw high or deadly army get slaughtered(with no losses to player) because AI keeps blocking its own units so player can kill them one at a time essentially. It also seems to target "wrong" stacks most of the time making it even more disadvantageous. And then there is the at best idiotic spell/warcry selections that didn't really help the army in any way. It also doesn't seem to understand wait command and just rushes in like berserker and defends with back-row. This is hands down the dummest AI ever in the series. Even on adventure map it's far from good, but at least compared to beta it did get quite fast.

Town builder/planner is way too strict. To get champions for example you will need to roughly build half a dozen precise buildings in direct requirements or more + you still need level 15 overall for town. It's a bit like h5 which had pretty good system, but only instead of making town builder more flexible devs decided to make it way more strict which was really bad decision. Because of how strict the system is you basically have to build the town the same way always instead of giving the player freedom on what to get and when based on his skills to acquire resources on their adventures. Another thing is that buildings are still a little bit on the cheap side, but at least it feels better than in beta(where resource piles were giving way too much compared to prices). The choice buildings are also a bit hit and miss really. When you look at them they are mostly choice between defensive(read useless or turtling building) and generally useful building making them in most cases no-brainer decisions. Only ones you may think for second or two is choice between resource/resource building for your first game. Many of the "unique" buildings are also something other factions have too with different name. With champions there also feels to be the same problem h4 had, you will know before game even starts on what you will get based on how they will suit your hero and troops(I couldn't even imagine taking arcane bird on might hero for example).

Governor system was a nice idea, but the implementation just falls flat. There isn't really much encouragement to level up the governors as it doesn't really feel worth it for the bonuses they bring. This could be partially fixed by giving governor free exp for example the turns he stays in castle. Still, the governor would need some actually interesting abilities rather than just giving in general expert/master level boost from skill x to his area.

Area of Control is also back from h6. This is system I actually liked as it saves some extra time it takes to run around tagging mines in the opposite part of an area. Sadly for forts they for some reason force you to rebuild(read convert) the forts after capture and go tag the mines manually. Caravans are also back for longer distances which is nice and for the same area you can recruit directly in town which saves some extra hassle which was good decision.

Artifacts are bit of a downer in the game. You won't feel like there being much uniqueness to them, mostly they just have values little different from each other. You also won't find racial sets or that interesting sets in general with the game. Probably 50% or more artifacts also use h6 images on them. Even the racial items seem a bit dull as they are only usable for their own race with non-imaginative boost. Limbic also introduced new artifact family which is essentially set you can make from dozen different parts, but you only get bonus from two of them while with normal sets you would get bonuses at for example 2,4,6 and 8 pieces.H6 and H5 both had way more interesting artifacts and sets.

Creature/resource/artifact banks are back which is nice. Them not being random is not nice. The rewards don't really feel like they scale with the guardians also.

The graphics of the game are also not top quality. H6 has better graphics, not to mention it had colors that made the game feel like it was placed in fantasy world. H7 uses completely grey washed out colors that make concrete wall look just about interesting. The games styles don't really mesh together either. There is the general graphics which is rather minimal and "realistic", then unit designs which are completely over the top with all the extra spikes and decorations that shouldn't be there. And then there are the 2d town screens which are more like cartoony paintings. The graphics are just a real mish-mash of things(and a lot of the models are copied from h6 btw). Also seeing as resources got wasted on stuff like making Llama mount instead of giving some unit make-over feels total waste.

Optimization of this game is just ♥♥♥♥ poor. The game was running smoother in the first demo/beta before it got "fixed"(read it turned very sluggish). The game is much heavier than SC2 on full HD and ultra settings. I can run pretty much any modern game with full HD and at the very least medium if not high/ultra settings smoothly, but not H7! I have yet to understand what is in this game that makes it so heavy, that I have to turn all the goodies off and put resolution to minimal. If I try to play on higher graphics the game becomes so sluggish it almost makes me feel nauseous. Even h6 which has better graphics runs smooth! (Just for the record I got 2x gtx 680m, i2860XM, 16gb ram, 500gb SSD)

The game has had great deal of bugs fixed compared to beta(s). There are some minor bugs, but I haven't seen anything game-breaking. Also game hasn't crashed even once(though 2nd beta was already stable for me).

The game also suffers from general very slow pace(much slower than TBS -games in general). Aside the poor optimization it feels like your hero can barely move during the turns. The movements points are low and penalties for moving are quite high which results in you pretty much tapping "end turn" in order to get anywhere. I asked about this during twitch conversations with devs and all they could say was that "they designed the campaigns with these movement points so they can't change them for the game"(in my own words). I really hope they will end up doing changes for hero-movement as it feels I would move about same amount in h5 where most of that time was spent on AI turns.(By that I mean essentially here in h7 we have short turns where we can do very little and in h5 we had long turns, but we could do a lot)

Saving game doesn't automatically name it based on map like in past games(like "fire isles 1" or "fire isles 29") forcing you to write and seperate them manually.

The music in the game is good, sound-effects in battles are not. They sounds seem to a lot of times have big problems to sync up not to mention they aren't all that good to being with if you actually listen what unit does what.

Animations in the game feel a bit mixed to me. The campaign strategy-table has still 3d-images which clearly look like they were meant to be animated, but for one reason or another didn't get that done. In battles the animations aren't bad, but given that units have some silly animations(nobody watches) that are unique and their critical hits in general are just spinning around I feel like a lot of resources got wasted there. Given that they though trailer was more important than in-game stuff also shows that devs focus was off.

So far campaign remind me mostly of h6 so nothing special there. (I played 3 orc misisons, only to find them being same missions from h6 just set in different environment. after which I was quite disappointed and quit.)

I have no experience with map editor really so I have hard time evaluating it. On quick look it has stuff like creation of artifacts(only for scenarios though?), you can make custom classes within limits and some other stuff. RMG provides terrible maps in its current state(just tight corridors, no open spaces or water), it's slow and it keeps "not responding" a lot. Seen some complaints people not being able to publish maps also. On HC(fan site) I didn't see too many good comments about it, but it's still early. It will be something that gets evaluated by time as maps get created(or if they get created).


So shortly:
-Very bad AI
-Boring, generic and optimized h6 like skill-system.
-Ton of copy-paste creature abilities, little variety/diversity
-Mediocre spell-system(mainly h6 copies)
-Lousy hero specializations
-Washed out graphics(worse than h6)
-animations
-Re-used h6 models(many bad/medicore ones too)
-sounds
-core/elite/champion -tiers
-Lack of Boss-battles
-Flanking system from heroes online
-No real interaction with fans during development like they advertised
-low number of maps(about dozen including scenarios).
-Based on h6 and h4 for most part
-Very poor optimization
-small bugs
-Lack of random elements in the game
-Overall copy-paste mentality
-Lack of variety and diversity in the game
-Very slow pace(on adventure map movement)
-No dynasty or anything else to level/advance

-/+ Dull campaign though could be worse
-/+ Creature/artifact/resource banks
-/+ Area of control

+Music
+Caravans
+Mixed random armies
+Major bugs seem to be cleaned up
+Game hasn't crashed once on me.
+Fast AI turns

Overall the game just doesn't excel in anything and still feels like it's in beta-state(one can hope). Having played h6 this doesn't really feel even new game with so much cannibalized from h6. It's really more like stand alone expansion to h6 kinda like Colonization was to Civilization 4. It feels extremely simplified much like h6 and offers very little replayability compared to pre-h6 titles. Frankly speaking the game just feels cheap and lacking for 2015 game. It may be slightly better than h6(not even sure of that to be honest), but not even close to h4 let alone h2, h3 or h5 standards. The game does have potential if it gets the skill/class systems, creature abilities and specializations re-worked, but I have my doubts on that happening. The game has some nice concepts/ideas but they just don't reach their potential and feel half baked.
I have no idea what some of the critics have been smoking when they have given this game 70-80 points in general. If this was indie game with no history that might be fair, but it isn't, not to mention it having full AAA-title price. Having played this series since h2 and having lots of experience with it + playing this game 40-50h through both betas(and now after launch) I think about 45-50 points(out of 100) is a realistic evaluation for this game. The game is simply mediocrity of mediocrity where nothing shines or excels. I just can't find a reason to play this game over h5 or even h6 frankly.

Decerebral
10-04-2015, 03:30 PM
I spend many hours , during many years on HMM2, 3, 5 and 6.

This alpha ****y game, i played 3 mn. In 3 minutes i see immediatly:

- No introduction: a poor rendered 3d scene with nothing moving but the camera
-Adventure map looks horrible HORRIBLE. You can't figure out any detail, u see block of colours : is it ground ? is it my town ? a wall ? nature ? It looks very poor ( alpha stage quality)
-I finaly click the tower and enter my first fight: same picture here, nothing is really finished except maybe music. unfinished game with horrible graphics
- i dont even finish the first fight, choosing auto combat.

Return to theadventure map -> esc -> Back to windows

60 for that is not even a bad joke, it's a swindle.

FLEE from that game

The only good news: the free HMM3 HD in steam in the package.
Sorry UBISOFT, it's innacceptable, i will never come back:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Wintermist
10-04-2015, 04:56 PM
While I don't agree with things there, I have to give you a big KUDOS for that post!

szpeniu
10-04-2015, 10:42 PM
I would agree with most of them. Area of control is, just as you classified it +\-. The game is faster, but I liked the siege of an enemy town when he didn't want to leave it so cutting him off the resources was a good option. In heroes 7 you can only plunder for 4 days I think. Some area bonuses are way to OP, like +6or8 attack- that is sick and this is the first skill. Generally, stronghold is too powerful at that moment (this is of course my opinion).

GalaadleHaut
10-06-2015, 12:04 AM
Well now THAT's feedback.

Bob__Gnarly
10-06-2015, 12:45 AM
I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING!

I hadn't played any Heroes games since 3 and I felt the series hadn't progressed at all. If anything, it went backwards... Copy/paste resonated hard with me. Even all the units were the same and still had the same abilities... They didn't try at all, this is simply a cash grab by Ubisoft.

broui
10-06-2015, 01:00 AM
Good work, albeit factually inaccurate (all the H6/H4 comparisons while leaving out the obvious H3/5 influences, notably the strict building planner) thus leading to a fallacious conclusion.

ramborusina
10-06-2015, 04:20 AM
Ok brouie, explain the h3/h5 influences and if possible make it so they can't be from h4/h6.

Skill-system: at its core it's the same system as h6.
Racials/races: like in h6.
Magic system: H6 spells/schools combined with magic-guild from h3/h4/h5
Hero specializations: good deal of them are basically straight from h6.
Unit abilities: none really or h3 + h6. H3 had few, but that was because of the time it was released, h4&h5 had big variety, h6 had ability-fest, with the button for activated abilities.
Creature tiers: h6. Even with the "strong" -versions I don't see it any different because in h6 there was always less useful if not downright "bad" unit for core and elite tiers.
Battle-system: Copied from h6 as devs themselves have said in twitch. (H6 was based on h3 system though)
(Flanking: Heroes Online)
(mixed neutrals: Heroes Online)
Battle-fields: h6
AI: Worse than in any previous game
Town-builder/planner: h4 & h5 & h6
Governor system: h4
Caravans h4 & h5
AoC: h6
Artifacts: h6
Creature banks: h3 & h6
Graphics/models: h6
Slow pace of the game: h6(on adventure map and in battles)
Music: h6 (some directly copied)
Animations: h6(some straight copies)
Campaigns: h6, almost like still playing that game only now you don't need to buy army to advance.

Conclusion: if you think that you only played h4 and h6 you can account almost everything in this game. If you think that you only played h3 + h5 you couldn't account for all that much. I'm not really seeing or feeling h3 or h5 frankly. I just felt like I was playing some cheap stand alone expansion for h6 that got some features from h4 and Heroes Online. I have no idea what you are seeing as obvious h3/h5 influences.

PS And if you actually read my text you'd know that I precisely said devs took the strict building planner from h5 and made it worse.

Stormhelico
10-06-2015, 12:19 PM
I completely agree ramborusina, and it's nice to hear from you again.

Zuhav
10-06-2015, 03:56 PM
Well, I must say I don't fully agree with this statement.

""H7 skill-system is heavily based on H6 and I personally hate the optimization it brings. Every game you end up building your hero the exact same way(which you know since start of the match). Because how some classes are much superior compared to others it doesn't help to diversify game either as you will want to pick the good classes and heroes which are clear minority in the game""

That's quite off and lacks of explanation. On the contrary i think this skill system allows you to build different types of heroes which leads to several ways to play the faction. I haven't tested all the possibilities yet, but for each faction you can play for instance:
_Magic heroes : faction abilities + one school specialization + warfare units.
_Magic heroes : faction abilities + one school specialization + defense/or offense depending on the faction/ or depending on hero's class.
_Magic heroes : faction abilities + one school specialization + neutral skills/ depending on the class again.
_Magic heroes : faction abilities + one school specialization + paragon.
_Magic heroes : faction abilities + one school specialization + leadership

_Might heroes : faction abilities + warcries + attack/defense
etc...
etc...

Each of these choices will result in different gameplays with one faction which is great and far from Heroes 6 skill tree. It might appear some of the possible builds are stronger in battle but weak in overall control of the map or economy development. that's what the classes allow, it's just up to you to decide how you wanna play it. There's no real good or bad ones, sure it might need further balancing for each choice to be sustainable but still diversity is here.
From there on, you can choose to build champion creature/ dwelling booster / and castle defense to suit your skill build. For instance, with academy you could choose to rather open titan with a strong spell caster magic hero, boost all ranged units or with a might hero open magic birds and boost all melee units. Some classes allow you to do a mix of the two based on the situation/ the magic school you have chosen and so on...
So yeah after choosing your starting hero, you already know what kind of build you going for and in each way you will optimize it in order to be efficient. But still some adjustment are possible. Anyway, you always go for optimization it was the case in all heroes games. We always otpimize our build right? I Don't get why you hate it. It was pushed too far in Heroes 6 as you ended up doing the same build with magic heroes/might heroes no matter which faction you were playing. Here it is not possible as the classes/factions restrict your available skills.

""Magic system is yet another h6 feature. You are back to more classic approach on getting spells from magic guilds. Problem is that all schools have little bit of everything and at basic level most spells are just copies of each other. To make them any different you have to specialize in them via abilities. And to get more power to spells you have to learn other spell-schools which you have to do anyway because you can't master your school because of the new arcane system(learning high level spells requires 8 points and mastering single school only gets you 6). Even in general it doesn't feel like schools specialize in anything particular which is just sad, not to mention many iconic spells are also dearly missed. Great example of fixing something yet again that wasn't broken!""

I quite agree with this one, still don't really get the 6/8 points stuff. why is it that way ? what's the "balancing factor" ?

""Hero specializations are utter crap. They are generic boring start bonuses that make you feel like you're playing nobody/anybody instead of being the mighty Kragh or whatever. The same bonuses are also copy-pasted all over and some copied from other places like buildings. They just simply leave you disappointed... Btw they are pretty much h6 specs except worse and no dynasty either to work on the side.

Unit abilities don't really do much better either. There is so much copy-paste mentality there it's not even funny. That doesn't get helped by the fact that units have pretty much 1-3 abilities so there being same abilities over and over makes units feel too similar. Which is even further hurting the game because units stats are kept with too small margin. All units cross the battle-field for example at turn two, the unit powers are roughly the same given their growth. Even in h6 units felt more distinctive and that by the way is not a compliment. This is partly because h7 decided to use the hated 3-tier system from h6(core/elite/champion). They did edit it adding powerful version to core and elite, but it's still a far cry from old 7-tier system which had a lot more variety in comparison. Also "spell-caster -units" don't have spell-book like in h4 or h5, they have simple button that certainly doesn't help with immersion(hated that in h6)!""

Well, I loved all the different abilities units had in heroes 6, but that's what made the game impossible to balance. Less abilities is needed in my opinion. But right, more diversity is required, just a bit more. I don't feel like hero specialisation is that important, and balance wise, it needs to be quite equaly distributed between faction. I can't remember that much diversity in former heroes games, it has always been kinda same stuff. Sure, there's less variety in this one but if variety = imbalance, i'm ok with that.

""The battle-system they copied from h6 which wasn't that good. They also lost many of the good parts like map objects and creature-placing to tower. They added flanking mechanic from Heroes Online to system which was a bad decision. In essence it means you get extra boost to damage when attacking from back/side. The result is that player either plays turtle so you can't back-stab them(at least till you get near and then he does that to you first) OR it makes units waltz around each other going for back-stabs which looks absolutely idiotic. The flanking system would have been great addition as ability for some units like assasin or harpy, but when all units keep running around each other it just looks sad and pathetic. The flanking just feels half-baked, they copied it only partly not even making it as good as it was in Heroes Online.
Also what was promised was different size battle-grounds which I've only seen in campaign so far. I mean there are minor differences in size possibly(not sure), but when battle goes the exact same way battle to battle and turn I feel something is just wrong(also the skill system makes the battles work basically exactly the same every battle).
On the bright side neutral armies can consist of multiple different stacks though I really wish they didn't show how units are split(it makes fights too predictable) and also I miss the old few/dozen/legion -type amounts. Just having plain numbers makes them look and feel so mechanical and it breaks immersion. The game also lack boss-battles which were a great feature added by h6(one of few good sides of the game).""

What do you mean by battle-system wasn't that good? You should provide further arguments on this one. Why is flanking idiotic, sad and pathetic? You now have to think more before launching your troops ahead of battle without other units to cover them. That's deeper gameplay for me, it implements risky moves/safer moves as you will not always look for backstabbing while opening your flanks to the enemy to backstab you right after. I never played heroes online so...more details on how it was better pls...

There are actually different battle map sizes and it's quite buggy, got a lot of crashes and weird buggs ( like the healer tent doesn't show up in small maps ).
Problem is: most of the maps are the same in one given terrain type. Why they didn't keep traps, shrines and so on in battle maps ? That's sadly one step backwards in cool game features. I guess this is balance related. But when one single 1x1 obstacle randomly placed in combat map can totally change the output it seems not valid to get rid of it for balancing purpose.
Anyway, according to the map size, the battle can be really different. If your battles go the same over and over it must be related to your spells/skills/creatures build more than the combat map size.
I REALLY prefer knowing exactly what a few/ dozen/ swarm etc...means in terms of numbers before attacking. This doesn't change anything from former heroes anyway. Cause in the end, even if it wasn't explicit numbers you knew it after playing few hours.
Otherwise I agree on the stacks split making fights too predictable and boss battles.

""With champions there also feels to be the same problem h4 had, you will know before game even starts on what you will get based on how they will suit your hero and troops(I couldn't even imagine taking arcane bird on might hero for example).""


Hmm it feels normal to me...I don't understand why this one is an issue...what would be the alternative then ? Blind-picking your hero and not having any clue of what build your going for ? Adapting to what happens and your opponents ? Actually you can do it...
Even if you blind pick your hero, once you know which one you start with, you know what kind of build you'll be able to do. If you don't like it you can recruit another hero and change your build. If you mean that you already know what you're gonna do because of the OPness of a build over another. That has more to do with balancing.

""The game has had great deal of bugs fixed compared to beta(s). There are some minor bugs, but I haven't seen anything game-breaking. Also game hasn't crashed even once(though 2nd beta was already stable for me).""


There's sooo much game breaking buggs!!!!
_Archangels not being able to resurrect troops for some reasons...
_Almost all stats info are misleading. You never really know how much you will heal your troops for instance. And sometimes you're supposed to resurrect with healing a full life unit but it doesn't...some of the specs are not working properly too...If your unit is supposed to be immune to movement reduction how come sylvan mark can reduce it ?????
_Retaliation for guardian unit in haven doesn't work sometimes too, when another troop is attacked next to it.
_Centaurs retaliating twice...or is it intended...?
_ETC....ETC....

I can't even start trying to check if the game is balanced with such misleading stats and not working spells/abilities/specs. They should fix all of this before even trying to balance anything.
There's also an overall lack of information in the UI and texts.


In general I agree with most of the things you said, but some seem off topic and a bit anticipated. Hard to judge about balancing. Bug fixing first then will be able to check the rest. For now on, this is not a finished product.

MC_Swifty
10-06-2015, 07:47 PM
+Fast AI turns


I am like ... "really?" --> I make a turn very quickly (as heroes ain't traveling very far) and then wait basically 1-2 minutes!!! for AI turns while playing SP. Apart from that, here's my opinion (I am regular HOMAM fan since second release if anyone cares):

+ 6 factions (academy is back - w00t)
+ magic guild
+ resource variety
+ missing boss-battles

- very long AI turns
- only 6-8 MP maps??
- lesser variability in creature abilities than H6
- building in castles is not shown on city screen
- area of control
- flanking
- caravans
- heroes moving around the map without a single army creature
- strange AI behaviour overall (when observed, strong AI just means spamming heroes and better resourcing)
- lot of broken spells / abilities
- absence of english language (i don't want google-translator czech implemented in my game)

I kinda wonder who did they ask for opinion, I want to know these fans because no one from my surrounding (mostly grown on H3) ever liked area of control bullsh** or wait quite long for AI turns, lol

ramborusina
10-06-2015, 10:08 PM
@MC Well compared to 2nd beta, yes the AI is fast. During the beta it took around 5 min total for 3 AIs to end their turn.

@Zuhav

Skill-system: the classes aren't equal in power which makes actually most of them more like lose to play problems. For example no hero from academy can challenge Minasli, she will steamroll through the game by just spamming tsunami every battle. The games won't take long enough for might players to gather big enough army to survive the spells if you build her right. Generally speaking the system is just like in h6, only now it's split in pieces by classes as to what you can access. Most of h7 classes and heroes I can rule out just by reading their specialization and skills to know there are better options. Besides, you can play h6 with same classes, just put pieces of tape on monitor to "ban" certain skills and you got h7 skill-tree. The skills are different, but the way it works is the same, only level limitation is away.
As for the old systems, the main difference is that you always had several builds you could go to if you got "bad" skill to optimize again. It was about making the best of the current situation and evaluating the benefits of long term and short term choices. In h7 you are limited since start to boost the hero in certain way, if you take the "bad" skill you don't have other skills that go with it, all you really got is cookie-cutter molds on how to build hero. This is partly because the skills don't really have synergy with each other. If you think about h5, you had stuff like morale + attack gave retribution. Extra movement would work with cavaliers to increase damage or for golems to give major boost compared to their base stat. In h7 you have none of that, you only have overlap that allows you to keep boosting X to it's fullest and that's it.
The classes are also something far from unique: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=41669

Essentially same classes by GM(racial + specific skill + magic school):
confessor + wizard + mystic
Archon + earth shaper + starsinger + shade weaver
Inquisitor + Blademage + battlemage + storm caller + thornsower
Priest + enchanter + sorcerer

Exactly same classes by GM(even magic school is the same):
Paladin + bone guard
warmonger + vindicator + avenger + shadow slayer
Ebon knight + necromancer + dark prophet
Battlemage + storm caller

That leaves about dozen classes that are at least a little more at the unique side from rest. Devs just took the lazy way out when creating the classes. They used basically 6 templates for each faction and only did minor alteration to them. Ideally the heroes would only determine how your stats grow and let player build the hero with pool of all skills.


Battle-system: H6 was a big degeneration from h5. It lost basically a whole dimension from battles when initiative was turned from how often you get turns to simply how fast you get turn. H5 system allowed fast unit to strike more often than slow one which was great leap forward in battles compared to h4 and games before that. It was so much more complex system that I still find it great up to this date compared to the simple 1 unit per 1 turn. For heroes to have turn at any point you want was another drawback as the game felt like it was targeted to chimpanzees given how simple it felt in comparison(made me feel like players are being treated as complete idiots in h6 and h7).
For the flanking you should really try Heroes Online to see how much better it was done there. First of all it was done with hexes which always gave clear picture of where is flank, in square there it's harder to see it directly at times. Second the system was made in HO because troops were limited so tactics were necessary to win bigger armies. That was enhanced by shooters having actual limit to how far they could shoot and they also could flank as normal part of the system. The idea is that flank/back are more exposed so it's natural that shooter does more damage also. In h7 however shooters are just left standing there for whole battles(most likely even if you take the skills for flanking). The fact that flanking encourages turtling is part of bad design(devs said specifically they wanted to avoid that) as I said in my OP. As for normal battles, it doesn't add anything to them. You have units just running around each other all getting that bonus, everybody gets it so it might as well not exist. All it does is prolong the battles with extra animations of units running around each other. Even before you would use obstacles to limit how many units could attack you so and from where so it's nothing new in that regard either. Also what's missing from HO is that you could move, stop, move as long as you had movement points left. Also there should be possiblity to change which direction your unit faces. When you run past enemy they should turn around or even better use opportunity strike when you try to flank them or require another unit to "lock" the enemy by being engaged so other unit can run past as enemy is occupied(that wasn't in HO). Seeing such obvious things missing from flanking all I can say is that they made the system completely half-baked just to add anything to the game.

With champions: it should be equal choice between two units. It shouldn't be so you will have default choice since the beginning like in h4. I have yet to have a game where I would even consider the other champion compared to when I started the game.

As for bugs, I haven't had anything game-breaking really. Stuff like angels resurrection seems like minor concern given that you don't really need champions in the game anyway. I mean you probably reinforce your army once or twice in the entire game on big maps so they aren't really major problems. Basically this game is played with either magic, war-machine or giant stack via diplomacy and you use that to win the game. You don't really need anything else, this game is so incredibly shallow compared to older titles.

In the end you can put great deal of the problems to balancing, but when you got boring game it doesn't really matter if it's balanced. H6 already tried the same balancing as h7 has and the big problem was that it was just plain boring to play.

GalaadleHaut
10-06-2015, 11:16 PM
yes, it's much more useful than your tantrums and lols.
http://lookatmyhorsemyhorseisamazing.com/

halatu1
10-09-2015, 09:53 PM
I play Heroes from the beginning and this, Heroes VII, look for me amazing. Seems to be a story well told, previous versions dont give me this sensation. I like that has it gives you information very easy about everything. If it had cinematic trailers like Blizzard it should be almost perfect. Its clear that took things from past versions, how else ?!!! Tell me other game like this.... to compare... I think, you should enjoy it how it is and maybe you will change opinion...

ramborusina
10-10-2015, 03:06 AM
@Halatu1 I've spend about 50 hours total on h7 including both betas, problem is that I still haven't had fun nor enjoyed it at all. To me it's like h6, it's boring generic HoMM game that has been dumbed down(Only h6 didn't feel so cheap and lazy to me). I still have fun playing h5 with my friends because of the depth and complexity that I just find completely missing from h7.