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dread_stone
10-04-2015, 05:46 AM
The following are my opinions on the topic; this serves as a warning of sorts, so I don't have to write "IMO" after every solitary opinion. I'll try to keep it short:

After having recently replayed ACII, I was reminded why it is typically considered the greatest, most breathtaking AC game in the series. Renaissance Italy truly is a delight, and the 15th century architecture was recreated amazingly by Ubisoft. Jesper Kyd's ambient soundtracks really made free roaming enjoyable, and made the entire game special, in its own right; Kyd's ACII soundtrack is one of the best compositions in the franchise. The combat was surprisingly better than in future installations; it wasn't watered down and streamlined to lend itself to chain killing, and felt much more sophisticated, challenging and rewarding. This was only further enhanced by the vast array of weapons accessible to you and the gruesome killing animations. It just felt much more structured in ACII and was a nice change of pace after coming from recent AC games. The map was just great. So many considerable cities that could be fully traversed, all well-designed and memorable. I much rather run across the rooftops of Renaissance Florence or Venice than Colonial New York or Havana. I don't have to say much about the story; it was simply 10/10, especially in comparison to the stories in recent AC installations. Young Ezio is the best Ezio and seeing him grow this time was equally as entrancing as the first. Upgrading Monteriggioni was very reminiscent of upgrading the Jackdaw in ACIV, since you could visibly see the results of doing so, which made the process that much rewarding. Upgrading Monteriggioni was a bit more rewarding, though. Loved the side characters. Leonardo was someone who I actually wanted to go see for their character, rather than an upgrade. "What will he think of the contents of this Codex page, I wonder?" Speaking of Codex pages: The lore in ACII is the strongest in the series. I actually cared about the database entries and the Codex pages. ACII just had the most historical value for me. Assassination missions weren't quite as open-ended as in ACI (I should say, the main ones weren't), and some required entering open conflict, but the sheer number of them that could be done was astonishing. The main missions were just so much better overall. Oh, and finally, the modern day part was actually interesting and enjoyable. I felt like a true Assassin, hiding out in a warehouse, testing out my newly acquired skills and getting work done with the Assassin squad in secrecy. It's too bad it all went downhill from there (with the revelations of Lucy being a Templar, in ACB).

That's a bundle of reasons why I loved ACII and think that it has yet to be surpassed. I do feel that ACIV was a great experience in its own right and is easily second to ACII as a game in the series.

PS: If you haven't replayed ACII in, like, five or six years, and have been playing a lot of the newer AC games recently, it may actually feel better than the first time! (It did for me.)

RVSage
10-04-2015, 06:06 AM
Truth is not yet. ACII remains unique. The music , the setting, the characters , the gameplay The ambience of that is unmatched. Music wise Syndicate seems to be getting close. We will have to see when the game releases

Hans684
10-04-2015, 08:25 AM
A long time ago.

BananaBlighter
10-04-2015, 08:48 AM
Oh definitely. In terms of gameplay most games improved greatly upon their predecessor. However story is mailny down to people opinion, and many would still say AC2 has better characters, setting, atmosphere etc. When I go back to games like that it sometimes surprises me how basic they seem. I played AC4 and AC3 before the Ezio trilogy and I felt very limited when I started playing ACB (lol I know, before AC2). Basically, I had more fun playing through something like AC4 than any of the Ezio games.

EmptyCrustacean
10-04-2015, 09:15 AM
Could a mod edit the OP to make actual paragraphs? Thanks.

dimbismp
10-04-2015, 10:03 AM
It is a matterr of personal preference.For me,AC2 is worse than ACB,AC4 and ACU

dread_stone
10-04-2015, 10:07 AM
Could a mod edit the OP to make actual paragraphs? Thanks.
Disregard the unsubstantial and unproductive post above, mods. Thanks.

Splitting it up is useless. As I explicitly stated in the OP ("That's a bundle of reasons..."), it was meant to be a bundle.


It is a matterr of personal preference. For me,AC2 is worse than ACB,AC4 and ACU
Very true. I happen to believe the inverse, and think that ACIV, though fun, still pales in comparison to ACII as an Assassin's Creed game.

VestigialLlama4
10-04-2015, 10:08 AM
In terms of the overall package no.

AC2 has the most likable hero, the coolest supporting cast, a pretty exoticc setting, some of the best gimmicky missions and open worlds, cool side missions and musical score. Other games have a more mature story, better motivated villains, more cohesive main and side mission integration, better historical immersion and better collectibles than a bunch of feathers and codex pages with thin security. So overall it's the perfect jack of all trades.

There are parts in the game that can be improved and have been improved upon but in terms of telling this sprawling open world epic story, it's still, for better and worse, the standard. I am not entirely sure if following a standard is a good thing but if you want to make a basic AC game you should try for the mixage of AC2.

GunnerGalactico
10-04-2015, 10:45 AM
Yes, thread. ;)

Shahkulu101
10-04-2015, 10:52 AM
Brotherhood was better than it in every way IMO, and I also prefer Revelations to it. Between AC2 and AC3 I'm torn on what title I think is better but neither are up there with my favourites.

AC2 was one of my top games when I played it, but upon subsequent replays I think it shows it's age in comparison to other titles.

Jessigirl2013
10-04-2015, 11:24 AM
IMO no AC protagonist has had more character development than Ezio.....
.
.
. Yet.

dimbismp
10-04-2015, 12:14 PM
IMO no AC protagonist has had more character development than Ezio.....
.
.
. Yet.
Well,Ezio had 3 whole games though...IMO Edward had more character development than Ezio in AC2

SixKeys
10-04-2015, 01:58 PM
AC1 was better than AC2 and ACB surpassed AC2 in its own game.

Journey93
10-04-2015, 03:06 PM
I count all the Ezio games as one big Saga and that hasn't been surpassed yet.

The Kenway Saga only had one really great game (ACIV), AC3 was still enjoyable but overall a mess and Rogue just sucked ***

Lets not even talk about Unity.

kosmoscreed
10-04-2015, 03:43 PM
As a complete package, for me the answer is no. No game has nailed all the aspects (story, gameplay, music, awe...) like ACII did.

Kaschra
10-04-2015, 04:02 PM
AC2 is really overrated.
I used to love it, but not anymore.


PS: If you haven't replayed ACII in, like, five or six years, and have been playing a lot of the newer AC games recently, it may actually feel better than the first time! (It did for me.)
I replayed it about a month ago, and the exact opposite happened to me. It really was no fun to play anymore, neither gameplay nor storywise. I was really disappointed.
The story was not really engaging, especially since the Templars were incredibly bland, cliche evil characters. A lot of characters weren't handled well, like Ezio's mother and sister who simply disappeared into oblivion after a while and were completely irrelevant to the rest of the story. Or other characters who suddenly vanished alltogether.
I also found young Ezio not really likeable, and he was kinda inconsistent, especially during the end of the game.
He "assassinates" Rodrigo and says that he is not over the death of his family and still wants revenge, then 5 minutes later he says thathe IS over it and that killing him won't bring his family back? And then he just spares the Grandmaster of the Templars, his biggest enemy? Just... what.
Not to mention that two whole sequences were cut from the game and sold as DLC.


Yes, I definitely think AC2 has been surpassed.

Namikaze_17
10-04-2015, 04:55 PM
*Looks at ACB and AC4*


Yes, thread. ;)

You missed the '/' part. :rolleyes:

Alphacos007
10-04-2015, 05:08 PM
Like someone else already said, as an overall package, definitely not. And I don't think it'll ever happen. But every following game was better than AC2 in one or more aspects.

Rugterwyper32
10-04-2015, 05:15 PM
AC1 was better than AC2 and ACB surpassed AC2 in its own game.

Honestly? This. AC2, for as much as it attempted to fix issues with AC1, merely sidestepped those and fell into many similar pitfalls, if not worse. It effectively lost interesting villains, the combat system was the most boring one in the series to date (I still stand that playing AC1 aggressively makes for the best combat system so far), the storyline drags on during the second half and has Ezio, as Kaschra mentioned, being inconsistent in his thoughts, the only reason for that being that they decided to make that sequence before Rodrigo's death, even though that'd have made more sense even if they wanted to work on a huge DLC that became Brotherhood later on. And how many characters are handled, disappearing entirely just showing up for a "big reveal" and then going back into being irrelevant. Add to that Machiavelli's last second introduction and how pointless he is if you're talking vanilla AC2 without DLC. And speaking of DLC, that was cut off from the main game, which will bug me to no end.
Plus, it has this annoying collect codex pages element which feels more forced than the Sky Temple keys in Metroid Prime 2 and it somehow feels even more boring. It's not like you have many options of how to get those, it's kinda just walk in, kill these guards with the most boring combat system in the series to date, loot the chest. Frankly, the puzzles to get to the Flying Ing Caches in Metroid Prime 2 are more entertaining than that, and those are still a chore.
And finally, my biggest personal gripe: No main mission replay. Every other game in the series, even AC1, had that. But not AC2. Even to this date, I still don't understand that decision in the slightest. You can still see the DNA menu and the description for each mission, and you CAN replay the tombs, so why not main missions? Baffling, really.

Farlander1991
10-04-2015, 05:32 PM
(I still stand that playing AC1 aggressively makes for the best combat system so far)

The only thing you need to do to fix AC1's combat system is effectively remove counter-attack. Or have counter-attack stun your opponent for a little bit, like perfect parries do in Unity. That's it, you then have an amazing combat system where turtling is not the dominant strategy.


You can still see the DNA menu and the description for each mission, and you CAN replay the tombs, so why not main missions? Baffling, really.

You can replay any side-mission, not just tombs. Stuff like races and assassination contracts as well. Stuff like this is usually not a design decision, but a forced solution due to some technical issues. In later games like AC4 and Unity we have the opposite - ability to replay all main missions but no side-missions....

Pandassin
10-04-2015, 05:44 PM
AC2 is really overrated.
I used to love it, but not anymore.


I replayed it about a month ago, and the exact opposite happened to me. It really was no fun to play anymore, neither gameplay nor storywise. I was really disappointed.
The story was not really engaging, especially since the Templars were incredibly bland, cliche evil characters. A lot of characters weren't handled well, like Ezio's mother and sister who simply disappeared into oblivion after a while and were completely irrelevant to the rest of the story. Or other characters who suddenly vanished alltogether.
I also found young Ezio not really likeable, and he was kinda inconsistent, especially during the end of the game.
He "assassinates" Rodrigo and says that he is not over the death of his family and still wants revenge, then 5 minutes later he says thathe IS over it and that killing him won't bring his family back? And then he just spares the Grandmaster of the Templars, his biggest enemy? Just... what.
Not to mention that two whole sequences were cut from the game and sold as DLC.


Yes, I definitely think AC2 has been surpassed.

This.

AC2 is definitely overrated. AC3 was my first AC game and I loved every bit of it. However many people said that AC2 was still the best, so I got it out of curiosity and was very disappointed. The story was not at all engaging and Ezio was more annoying than anything else in my opinion. The characters and story were not memorable, and of course, the gameplay was outdated (which I expected at least).

I've never played Brotherhood, however I can definitely say that AC4 has been the greatest so far out of the AC game I've played. I don't understand how people can even compare AC4 to AC2, and still say AC2 was better. Edward has had the greatest character development I've seen from any game, and the most loveable side characters and most memorable story. But hey, that's just my opinion :D

king-hailz
10-04-2015, 06:00 PM
No game has come close to this game. Technically it might have been beaten, however it holds up better than most AC games, and in comparison AC3 looks dated to it. No other game in the series was put together better than this, everything was done so perfectly. I'm not going to go into each one here but there are many articles and there will many more articles explaining all the wonders of this game, and that's because there are new AC games coming out every year which dissapoint and even the ones that don't are disappointing compared to AC2!

Sorrosyss
10-04-2015, 07:04 PM
I know it's regarded as the fan favourite, but I'd personally rank it below several others in the series.

Having replayed it fairly recently, along with all the other games, I do feel there is a lot more nostalgia than anything else going for this title. Yes, that ending was amazing. But for me AC Brotherhood improved on it in just about every aspect; combat, villains, parkour, side mission variety, etc etc.

As for Ezio, I didn't really care for him much until Revelations. By then he was much more rational and enjoyable as a character.

The technical improvements are obvious for all to see as the series has progressed. Soundtrack aside, AC2 ultimately for me was surpassed long ago.

Journey93
10-04-2015, 07:10 PM
This.

AC2 is definitely overrated. AC3 was my first AC game and I loved every bit of it. However many people said that AC2 was still the best, so I got it out of curiosity and was very disappointed. The story was not at all engaging and Ezio was more annoying than anything else in my opinion. The characters and story were not memorable, and of course, the gameplay was outdated (which I expected at least).

I've never played Brotherhood, however I can definitely say that AC4 has been the greatest so far out of the AC game I've played. I don't understand how people can even compare AC4 to AC2, and still say AC2 was better. Edward has had the greatest character development I've seen from any game, and the most loveable side characters and most memorable story. But hey, that's just my opinion :D

Its subjective man. There is nothing more to understand.
I thought AC3 was mostly a mess and it turned me off the series. I agree on AC4 though, a great game and better than AC2.

But I count the Ezio games as one big Saga (since its the same character) and that Saga is much better than the Kenway one.

Unity and Rogue are the worst AC games by far though.

Kaschra
10-04-2015, 07:38 PM
This.
I've never played Brotherhood, however I can definitely say that AC4 has been the greatest so far out of the AC game I've played. I don't understand how people can even compare AC4 to AC2, and still say AC2 was better. Edward has had the greatest character development I've seen from any game, and the most loveable side characters and most memorable story. But hey, that's just my opinion :D

IMO Brotherhood is an improvement over AC2, the story and characters are handled better, and it's all much more coherent. It's an enjoyable game all round.

And I absolutely agree with your opinion on AC4!

Assassin_M
10-04-2015, 07:46 PM
Its subjective man.


Unity and Rogue are the worst AC games by far though.

You know what I'd put after that? Ooohhh


Its subjective man.

Anyways, glad to see this place is still intelligent. That's a nice looking poll.

AC II has been surpassed exactly on November 19th 2009. When I realized that AC I was better. Yeah, it streamlined much of what AC I's loop tedious, but AC I just did the AC formula so much better. ACB is basically a better AC II. ACR is DEFINITELY a better AC II. AC III, whilst had problems, greatly surpassed AC II in nearly every aspect. AC IV just ****s all over AC II. ACU......MIGHT be the only game worse than AC II. Other than the mobile games, of course.

dread_stone
10-04-2015, 08:11 PM
You know what I'd put after that? Ooohhh



Anyways, glad to see this place is still intelligent. That's a nice looking poll.

AC II has been surpassed exactly on November 19th 2009. When I realized that AC I was better. Yeah, it streamlined much of what AC I's loop tedious, but AC I just did the AC formula so much better. ACB is basically a better AC II. ACR is DEFINITELY a better AC II. AC III, whilst had problems, greatly surpassed AC II in nearly every aspect. AC IV just ****s all over AC II. ACU......MIGHT be the only game worse than AC II. Other than the mobile games, of course.
See, folks? I interpreted this as Assassin_M's opinion and he didn't include ridiculous "IMO"s after every subjective thing he wrote.

In threads like these, it should be assumed that everything posted is an opinion, not a fact.

That aside, I believe that ACI was the best Assassin's Creed to date, and that, in regards to Assassin's Creed, ACU is second, bugs aside, followed by ACR and ACII. ACIV is the worst, in regards to Assassin's Creed, and arguably one of the best in regards to games in general, with ACII being the first best game in the series overall for me, as the Creed was at least relevant in the game and it wasn't just an out-of-place installation that happened to be titled "Assassin's Creed".

Journey93
10-04-2015, 09:12 PM
You know what I'd put after that? Ooohhh



Anyways, glad to see this place is still intelligent. That's a nice looking poll.

AC II has been surpassed exactly on November 19th 2009. When I realized that AC I was better. Yeah, it streamlined much of what AC I's loop tedious, but AC I just did the AC formula so much better. ACB is basically a better AC II. ACR is DEFINITELY a better AC II. AC III, whilst had problems, greatly surpassed AC II in nearly every aspect. AC IV just ****s all over AC II. ACU......MIGHT be the only game worse than AC II. Other than the mobile games, of course.

Do I have to add "in my opinion" after every sentence? Sounds quite silly. Yes I believe Rogue and Unity are the worst AC games (bad protagonists, rushed and medicore storylines etc.) but thats just my opinion.

Hell I agree that AC2 has been surpassed, I just count all Ezio games as one big story and that hasn't been surpassed yet IN MY OPINION.
Kenway was close but due to the mess that was AC3 and Rogue it got dragged down.

LieutenantRex
10-04-2015, 11:32 PM
ACB, the best AC game to date, surpassed AC2 in 2010, and it's still a very good looking game. Looking over Rome from atop the Tiber Island Hideout is something no other AC game can replicate in terms of the successful ambience that is achieved, save perhaps ACR.

Assassin_M
10-05-2015, 12:21 AM
he didn't include ridiculous "IMO"s after every subjective thing he wrote.


In threads like these, it should be assumed that everything posted is an opinion, not a fact.
Anything I say is pretty much fact, everyone knows that.


with ACII being the first best game in the series overall for me, as the Creed was at least relevant in the game and it wasn't just an out-of-place installation that happened to be titled "Assassin's Creed".

AC II should have been called Bankers Creed, LeL. I think mentioning the Creed less than four times is what makes it relevant. In that case, AC II nails it right on the head. Precisely less than 4 times the Creed was mentioned in AC II. Three to be exact. And there's absolutely no explanation to it, no pondering of its content, nor what it means, it just keeps being said. Amazing. AC II is truly the best, I now concede to this undeniable fact. Whereas Assassins in AC IV mentioned the creed more than 3 times, divulged its meaning and characters compared it to other philosophies, AC II does nothing else but have characters say it in irrelevant contexts. Absolute brilliance and subtlety.


Do I have to add "in my opinion" after every sentence? Sounds quite silly. Yes I believe Rogue and Unity are the worst AC games (bad protagonists, rushed and medicore storylines etc.) but thats just my opinion.

Relax, breh, i was only jesting.

HDinHB
10-05-2015, 12:27 AM
Anything I say is pretty much fact, everyone knows that.

That's your opinion.

:cool:

dread_stone
10-05-2015, 01:14 AM
AC II should have been called Bankers Creed, LeL. I think mentioning the Creed less than four times is what makes it relevant. In that case, AC II nails it right on the head. Precisely less than 4 times the Creed was mentioned in AC II. Three to be exact. And there's absolutely no explanation to it, no pondering of its content, nor what it means, it just keeps being said. Amazing. AC II is truly the best, I now concede to this undeniable fact. Whereas Assassins in AC IV mentioned the creed more than 3 times, divulged its meaning and characters compared it to other philosophies, AC II does nothing else but have characters say it in irrelevant contexts. Absolute brilliance and subtlety.
Yes, the Creed wasn't explicitly mentioned a lot in ACII, but it was at least still relevant; being mentioned frequently and being relevant are two different things. In ACII, the Creed had relevance due to Ezio's journey into 'Assassinhood'. He was gradually being trained by members of the Assassin Order who followed the Creed and was on a quest for revenge against some of the most prominent Templar's in the Templar Order, because of the injustice done against his family. In ACIV, the Creed is only thoroughly explained. It has no relevance to the game and only becomes an important part of Edward's code in the last sequence. In ACII, a virtue of the quality of the Creed--respect for the dead--is bestowed to Ezio by Mario as early as sequence three -- the origins of Ezio's "Requiescat in pace". I can't remember how long it took for the Assassins and the Creed to gain substantial relevance in ACIV. Oh wait...

Assassin_M
10-05-2015, 01:35 AM
Yes, the Creed wasn't explicitly mentioned a lot in ACII, but it was at least still relevant;
Explain relevance.


n ACII, the Creed had relevance due to Ezio's journey into 'Assassinhood'.
That non-existent one, yeah.


He was gradually being trained by members of the Assassin Order
Oh, no, that was revealed only 20 minutes before the game ended. How does that translate into the relevance around the ENTIRE game? Those 15 minutes are what made the Creed relevant? Not a chance.


In ACIV, the Creed is only thoroughly explained. It has no relevance to the game and only becomes an important part of Edward's code in the last sequence.
Wrong. The Creed in AC IV was introduced by an Assassin who followed it, that Assassin explained why it appealed to her so much and then the protagonist gave his two cents. The assassin promptly scolds his interpretation because it was childish and brash. Afterwards, the Creed is put forth with two more philosophies introduced in the game: The pirate Code and the Templar Goal. These 3 philosphies opened various tracts of discussion between the characters that adopted these ideals.

Then, there's the introduction of the sages, these fascinating individuals. A mere carpenter, a free soul and a computer technician. The revelation led the first to curiosity and intrigue, it led the second to embracing it and it led the third towards madness. It mirrors the pondering of Creeds and why people need them. It explored the irony of that fact when put up with what the Templars offer. It explored how piracy was a middle-ground between Templar and Assassin that simply could not last very long. It's why most Pirates in Nassau transitioned to the Templars, because they're self interested. It's natural in a human. Nassau was a sinking ship. The pirates were rejected sailors, men and women who felt scorned and wanted all their lost years back. They were expendable, kings and queens only flick their fingers. That ship was sinking and the would be pirates all looked for their own ways to live outside of the law. Hornigold and his lackeys saw no other family, no other home. Nassau was gone.

Hope, though--The most important aspect of the Assassins--was what kept men like Blackbeard and Kenway from abandoning the broken town, their crumbling project. Kenway became an Assassin and Blackbeard retired. It's the dilemma of choice. When does a man know when to stop? When does a man realize his place in the world? It was hope for Edward, peace for Thatch and pride for Vane.

Edward's initial interpretation of the Creed is that it allowed him to do as he pleases. It was consistent with what he was doing. He kept going and going, not paying attention to anything else but his own glory. It was far away from the wisdom of the Creed and in the end, he comes to the beginning of that wisdom. He starts to question the phrases: Nothing is true, Everything is permitted. It was not the end of wisdom, it was the start of it. And for that, he takes his place among the Assassins, looking back at everything that happened with a different outlook. Even at an event like when Torres' bodyguard rekt him. He didnt seek revenge or retribution, no. He thanked body guard for his part in leading him to this place and showed him respect as a warrior, ending it with Mary's phrase: May you find peace down there among the dead.



In ACII, a virtue of the quality of the Creed--respect for the dead--is bestowed to Ezio by Mario as early as sequence three
Early does not matter, it's the transition that matters. It felt abrupt, you don't get to feel Ezio's anguish, his anger, you only see it once and he's suddenly sage Ezio. In AC IV, it's not about some mambo jambo "bestowal". It was a natural progression. It was late, but its tracks were apparent EVERYWHERE, even in side missions. I guess that was lost on you. Oh and respect for the dead is not part of the Creed, just so you know.

ze_topazio
10-05-2015, 12:07 PM
So far no other game in the series gave me the feeling of wonder and amazement that AC2 did, the absolutely on point music helped a lot, and so did my fascination with Italy, the renascentist architecture, cities and the period in general.

cawatrooper9
10-05-2015, 02:50 PM
Yes, obviously this is a matter of opinion, but I think AC2 was the greatest game in the series... for a year, until ACB came out. ACB perhaps doesn't have the atmosphere that AC2 does, but it's better on all other fronts (especially gameplay and immersion).
Since then, I'd say that AC4 has also passed it (probably not that controversial of a claim) as well as Rogue, AC3, Revelations, (probably much more controversial claims) and possibly Unity (jury's still out on that one, for me).