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View Full Version : The feeling this series used to give me is gone!



king-hailz
10-03-2015, 06:16 PM
I've been playing AC for many many years now, and at the beginning I had such an emotional attachment to this series, where I cared about the characters, I was freaked out by the templars and abstergo and the conspiracies gave me chills. I wasn't part of the forums and didn't talk to many other people about it but every time I saw a trailer I wanted to link it back to previous games and I wanted to see how it relates to our real world. I got that giddy feeling inside everytime I thought about it. I was defensive of it against other games because of how much I loved it.

Now I know I sticked to it till this very day but my heart isn't in it anymore. I look for all the details and I watch every trailer but I just don't get that feeling I got near the beginning. This series doesn't feel like fun anymore, it doesn't feel like entertainment with depth. I see a game, I see the models when I used to see the characters and a city. I see a script instead of seeing an interesting story.

It just lost the sense of what it was supposed to be for me. I now see what other people see when they say Ubisoft are greed for money, because it looks like it's true. The fact that there is a formula that's the same every year takes that away from me.

Patrice Desilets said at a conference a couple years ago that he learned to hide parts of the system to make it look like the environment like boxes and lamps. However that worked back then but they have stuffed this game series in our faces so much that I see it all, and worst of all other people see it and don't mention it. This is bad for games in general. We need to keep that feeling alive in games. We need to see that in AAA games just as much as we see it in indie games.

We can't just have games like Fifa, COD, Assassins Creed, Far Cry now and probably Watch Dogs soon every year representing what good games are.

Games should be a piece of art, a piece of the people making it. I saw a glimpse of that in AC4 because I know they wanted us to feel like a pirate, and honestly that is the strongest part of that game.

So what do you guys think? Do you like the way it is now, or do you like it how it's used to be, if you even saw it back then.

dread_stone
10-03-2015, 06:29 PM
Same.

Probably because the series is no longer unique or special, and is now nothing more than another mass-killing simulator. Assassin's Creed has lost touch with its roots as an assassination simulator intertwined with the Creed. I used to look forward to buying an Assassin's Creed game when they were predominantly about assassinations, the Creed and freedom of approach — when they knew what they wanted to be. All three of those qualities have gradually withered away with each passing installation, sadly.

ACB was the last good Assassin's Creed game. Save for Unity—which did return to the series' roots a bit, bugs and glitches aside—the rest are just mass-killing, open conflict games titled "Assassin's Creed", not Assassin's Creed games (including ACS).

strigoi1958
10-03-2015, 09:07 PM
Games are about fun.. If they are art that is a bonus... if you buy a game because you think it should be art then you are already setting a standard that the game shouldn't have to meet.

Also I hate it when someone says Ubisoft are being greedy...or any remark that is trying to rally support just because they are unhappy... do you think they were greedy when they made games you liked ? NO... when you get what YOU want they are wonderful but because you're not getting something your way you resort to petty mudslinging... it pretty much undermines anything you might say.:(

When I want to play AC1,2,ACB,ACR,3,4 or any of the previous games I can.... they're in my library,I liked many things from them and I'm happy if they get a recall in a new game, but, if I get nostalgic I replay ACR, ACIV and AC3 so I'm glad Syndicate is not a clone of any of the previous games (and definitely not AC2 with those impossible tombs ;)) .

I think some people might benefit from having a year off without an AC game so it sharpens their appetite for the game. ( I hope nobody will roll out the "I'm bored so Ubisoft should stop AC for a year and deprive millions of people who want it just to suit me when I feel like playing AC again" remark)

I think personally the only thing you have stated of importance is "It just lost the sense of what it was supposed to be for ME." we must realise that the games are not just made specifically for you or I (which is just as well, because any game designed by either of us would probably flop) and move on... and continue to play the games you like, whether they are different games or just the AC that you prefer..

king-hailz
10-03-2015, 09:39 PM
Games are about fun.. If they are art that is a bonus... if you buy a game because you think it should be art then you are already setting a standard that the game shouldn't have to meet.

Also I hate it when someone says Ubisoft are being greedy...or any remark that is trying to rally support just because they are unhappy... do you think they were greedy when they made games you liked ? NO... when you get what YOU want they are wonderful but because you're not getting something your way you resort to petty mudslinging... it pretty much undermines anything you might say.:(

When I want to play AC1,2,ACB,ACR,3,4 or any of the previous games I can.... they're in my library,I liked many things from them and I'm happy if they get a recall in a new game, but, if I get nostalgic I replay ACR, ACIV and AC3 so I'm glad Syndicate is not a clone of any of the previous games (and definitely not AC2 with those impossible tombs ;)) .

I think some people might benefit from having a year off without an AC game so it sharpens their appetite for the game. ( I hope nobody will roll out the "I'm bored so Ubisoft should stop AC for a year and deprive millions of people who want it just to suit me when I feel like playing AC again" remark)

I think personally the only thing you have stated of importance is "It just lost the sense of what it was supposed to be for ME." we must realise that the games are not just made specifically for you or I (which is just as well, because any game designed by either of us would probably flop) and move on... and continue to play the games you like, whether they are different games or just the AC that you prefer..

I'm sorry but ubisoft being greedy does take away from the quality if the games. For example they ask there workers to make AC games every year and then they are forced to work on the formula that has been set for AC! I'm not just looking for art. I'm looking for fun, and like I said before it can't be fun because of what they are making.

I am not asking them to stop making AC games, I'm asking them to stop making it all together. The fact that it's gonna come out every year for the foreseeable future is sickening. You saying them not making a game is depriving millions is laughable. It's like saying Christopher Nolan is depriving millions by not making a Batman film every year, or like saying the makers of breaking bad are depriving millions like it's medicine for a disease if they don't carry on making it. It's a game series, it's not a drug. They can deliver a great beginning middle and end, and not release the same game every year. The fact that they are even doing this is proof that they are greedy, when there decision to release a game every year started it was for greed. And honestly none of the games have had the quality of AC2! And don't tell me all game makers areally greedy because they aren't. Look at Naughty Dog only making a Last of Us 2 if they have a story that they need to tell.

What you said about me and you was true though. We are different. You are somebody who likes to stick to something and doesnt like change, you don't mind pizza everyday even if gets colder and colder with each bite. I am not like that. I expect more for my £50 than just a copy and paste of idea and execution!

Ignacio_796
10-03-2015, 09:43 PM
Games are about fun.. If they are art that is a bonus... if you buy a game because you think it should be art then you are already setting a standard that the game shouldn't have to meet.

Also I hate it when someone says Ubisoft are being greedy...or any remark that is trying to rally support just because they are unhappy... do you think they were greedy when they made games you liked ? NO... when you get what YOU want they are wonderful but because you're not getting something your way you resort to petty mudslinging... it pretty much undermines anything you might say.:(

When I want to play AC1,2,ACB,ACR,3,4 or any of the previous games I can.... they're in my library,I liked many things from them and I'm happy if they get a recall in a new game, but, if I get nostalgic I replay ACR, ACIV and AC3 so I'm glad Syndicate is not a clone of any of the previous games (and definitely not AC2 with those impossible tombs ;)) .

I think some people might benefit from having a year off without an AC game so it sharpens their appetite for the game. ( I hope nobody will roll out the "I'm bored so Ubisoft should stop AC for a year and deprive millions of people who want it just to suit me when I feel like playing AC again" remark)

I think personally the only thing you have stated of importance is "It just lost the sense of what it was supposed to be for ME." we must realise that the games are not just made specifically for you or I (which is just as well, because any game designed by either of us would probably flop) and move on... and continue to play the games you like, whether they are different games or just the AC that you prefer..


Where does it says that games are just about fun (and the art factor is just an EXTRA thing)?
Story-telling is art.
World Building is art.
Exploration of mechanics as an interactive or narrative tool is art.
I thought that those things were some of the pillars of AC.
I dont come back to play AC2 because is fun, not really. I come back to redescover the story and tragedy of Ezio, to try to feel the same intrigue about the First Civ. and Subject 16.

Saying that fun is the main objective of a game is like saying that games like This War of MIne does not have any value, because that game in particular tries to make you feel bad about the war, the context and the characters through a depressive experience. By your wayof thinking, game should not explore other types of experiences if they dont include the ''Fun Factor''.

Videogames are an interactive and audiovisual media. Films does not have the interactivity thing, but we can agree that they're art AND audiovisual experiences. Saying that games must be about fun, is like saying that films must be about fun, yet we appreciate sad movies for bringing us a compelling story.
Yes, that is the key word here, compelling... a game must be compelling.
Fun is optional.

strigoi1958
10-03-2015, 09:49 PM
you didn't answer... did you think Ubisoft was a bad company when they made games you liked ? No ... but now you are sulking and want sympathy so making them out to be the nasty people and you the poor victim.. is petty

and to use your analogy correctly ... because YOU don't like pizza any more you want everyone else to not like pizza even if we like cold pizza

@Ignacio... show me the definition where art is included not just YOUR definition



game1
ɡeɪm/
noun
1.
a form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules.
synonyms: match, contest, tournament, meeting, sports meeting, meet, event, athletic event, fixture, tie, cup tie, test match, final, cup final, play-off; More
2.
an activity that one engages in for amusement.
"a computer game"
synonyms: pastime, diversion, entertainment, amusement, distraction, divertissement, recreation, sport, activity, leisure activity;






AC is fun... it just isn't fun for you king-hailz so go... bye missing you already ;)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0c/a5/95/0ca59501c6a843e0ffaa366c3787cf17.jpg

Sushiglutton
10-03-2015, 09:57 PM
Patrice Desilets said at a conference a couple years ago that he learned to hide parts of the system to make it look like the environment like boxes and lamps.

Think Ubi are great at hiding the system!



:rolleyes:

http://s30.postimg.org/8n7msljg1/evie.png


But seriously I feel this series has def lost its soul. When they show cutscenes, or interviews of Syndicate it seems pretty great. But as soon as they show gameplay it's clear it's the same tired, clunky, annoying formula that is just dragging on. "Tackle this guy", "Do 20000 corner assassinations to get a blue belt", "tingle, tingle pointless chest nearby". etc

Very sad Ubi won't take a break to deliver a true quality game for a change :(.

strigoi1958
10-03-2015, 10:21 PM
So I said... "( I hope nobody will roll out the "I'm bored so Ubisoft should stop AC for a year and deprive millions of people who want it just to suit me when I feel like playing AC again" remark)" hoping someone wouldn't bring out the same tired, clunky annoying remark.... and we have a winner ;)

Ubi are delivering true quality games... but just because some people have different tastes they think they can make a judgement call... as though I thought sushi was better years ago and tastes not as good now so all sushi should be taken off the menu for EVERYONE for a few years until it appeals to me again :D

It cannot be simpler... everyone who wants AC this year can buy it... everyone else can leave it until they want to buy it again...

Hans684
10-03-2015, 10:24 PM
Think Ubi are great at hiding the system!



:rolleyes:

http://s30.postimg.org/8n7msljg1/evie.png


But seriously I feel this series has def lost its soul. When they show cutscenes, or interviews of Syndicate it seems pretty great. But as soon as they show gameplay it's clear it's the same tired, clunky, annoying formula that is just dragging on. "Tackle this guy", "Do 20000 corner assassinations to get a blue belt", "tingle, tingle pointless chest nearby". etc

Very sad Ubi won't take a break to deliver a true quality game for a change :(.

AC is bigger than gameplay, unfortunately they seem lack ambition in terms of story as well. Seeing as they have dropped the philosophical edge several times for cartoon stories with mustache twirling villains that are evil for the sake of being evil.

m4r-k7
10-03-2015, 11:05 PM
I feel exactly the same. The series has just lost its uniqueness, the mysteriousness and the feeling I used to get when I played the games. Assassins Creed has one of the greatest premises for any game on the market. Historical exploration through memories, with conspiracies, modern connection and even relation to a first civilization race. But now, my personal connection to the series is just going, which I am really sad to say seeing as Assassins Creed used to transport me to a whole new world when I played. The games are just not up to the same standards they used to be. Unity had great ambition, and it wasn't even the bugs that ruined it for me. Unity was broken beyond the undeveloped gameplay mechanics and bugs it had. Unfortunately, its just the way business works. I mean I can't really blame Ubisoft for milking the series as its a huge money maker, and that is any businesses core objective.

Syndicate seems like a decent game, but Assassins Creed shouldn't be decent. It should be incredible, just like it once was. I really hope that one day Assassins Creed returns to the way it once was in terms of story and gameplay.

adventurewomen
10-03-2015, 11:37 PM
I agree with you o.p. It's sad to see this happening. :(

Syndicate doesn't get me looking forward to it, I started loosing interest from Unity sadly. :(

bitebug2003
10-03-2015, 11:48 PM
For me AC is a yearly tradition now - some titles have been hit and miss but I'd miss it if it skipped a year :(

It's also taught me a wealth of things about various historical figures and places. It's allowed me to travel to places I can only dream of going.

I live in London so this year it would be nice to see how places I've been to looked like back in the 19th Century.

SixKeys
10-03-2015, 11:52 PM
Think Ubi are great at hiding the system!



:rolleyes:

http://s30.postimg.org/8n7msljg1/evie.png


Dear God, that HUD is still the worst one they've ever made.

Ignacio_796
10-04-2015, 12:09 AM
you didn't answer... did you think Ubisoft was a bad company when they made games you liked ? No ... but now you are sulking and want sympathy so making them out to be the nasty people and you the poor victim.. is petty

and to use your analogy correctly ... because YOU don't like pizza any more you want everyone else to not like pizza even if we like cold pizza

@Ignacio... show me the definition where art is included not just YOUR definition



game1
ɡeɪm/
noun
1.
a form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules.
synonyms: match, contest, tournament, meeting, sports meeting, meet, event, athletic event, fixture, tie, cup tie, test match, final, cup final, play-off; More
2.
an activity that one engages in for amusement.
"a computer game"
synonyms: pastime, diversion, entertainment, amusement, distraction, divertissement, recreation, sport, activity, leisure activity;






AC is fun... it just isn't fun for you king-hailz so go... bye missing you already ;)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0c/a5/95/0ca59501c6a843e0ffaa366c3787cf17.jpg

Let me rearrange my last phrase (Fun is optional to be exact).
Yes games in its conception has been about fun. Nowadays, fortunately, the possibilities of what a game is has been expanded thanks to the elements i exposed before. Even COD has story, characters...etc Games can be just about fun, but saying that every game has the obligation of being fun is limiting the vision of what games can be.
You can throw me all the definitions that you want, but that doesn't explain why depressing experiences in videogames as This War of Mine are praised as good games.

No...wait! Your second definition comes to be really useful to explain my point:
2.
an activity that one engages in for amusement.
"a computer game"
synonyms: pastime, diversion, entertainment, amusement, distraction, divertissement, recreation, sport, activity, leisure activity;

Amusement, recreation, divertissment... Are not supposed to be some of the purpose of art? you know, when you watch a movie or go to a museum.
Art also helps to understand, to discover or to see the world in different ways. Florence was a piece of art by itself that I enjoyed not as a tool to make me laugh or have fun but to make me feel inspired or amazed by the view of the birth of Renaissance.
I didn't laugh or had fun when Ezio became an Assassin, or when the game show me about History, i felt interested, intrigue or affected by it in some way or another. .

But i suppose that you enjoy more the mechanical aspects of the game (you know... combat, parkour, collecting pointless stuff) which is fine, dont get me wrong, that is where the franchise is going nowadays, but then that makes me think why AC2 that had more artistic value than good mechanics (because combat and parkour sucked), is today consider the best game of the franchise, yet games like Unity that has more polished mechanichs doesn't have that kind of praise. Maybe because in gaming art has a lot value. Again: Story-telling is art, World-Building is art and these are both of the keys of the success of AC2 and 1.

pacmanate
10-04-2015, 12:19 AM
Agree with OP. AC lost its mysteriousness after AC3.

Sure AC4 was a good game, but Desmond's MD, the glyphs, the puzzles, the first civ talking random crap... I miss that.

dread_stone
10-04-2015, 12:27 AM
you didn't answer... did you think Ubisoft was a bad company when they made games you liked ? No ... but now you are sulking and want sympathy so making them out to be the nasty people and you the poor victim.. is petty

and to use your analogy correctly ... because YOU don't like pizza any more you want everyone else to not like pizza even if we like cold pizza

@Ignacio... show me the definition where art is included not just YOUR definition



game1
ɡeɪm/
noun
1.
a form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules.
synonyms: match, contest, tournament, meeting, sports meeting, meet, event, athletic event, fixture, tie, cup tie, test match, final, cup final, play-off; More
2.
an activity that one engages in for amusement.
"a computer game"
synonyms: pastime, diversion, entertainment, amusement, distraction, divertissement, recreation, sport, activity, leisure activity;






AC is fun... it just isn't fun for you king-hailz so go... bye missing you already ;)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0c/a5/95/0ca59501c6a843e0ffaa366c3787cf17.jpg
You obviously haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. "Games are about fun. If they are art that is a bonus." Since you want to be spiteful and post definitions...

art
/ärt/
noun

1. the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

By virtue of the definition of 'art', all video games are inherently pieces of art. However, like with classical art, some video games just aren't appealing and are poorly designed (like the recent AC installations).

The OP was saying that AC has lost its essence--what it once was--and as a result, isn't entertaining or inspiring anymore. They never said that games were supposed to be more artful than fun to begin with.

Please actually read the OP before posting next time.

strigoi1958
10-04-2015, 12:41 AM
I hear what you are saying but I play games for fun.. if they are not fun or amusing I'm not interested... I don't know how many other people play games not for fun ? if you get or got anything other than fun from a game then that is good... but I'm pretty sure that is the fundamental reason for them.

If you were not entertained by the Ezio trilogy.. that's not the games fault that is just your personal taste.

This war of mine has taken 3 million euros in sales according to google. Probably because it's depressing... something can be critically acclaimed and still be unpopular.

If the franchise is headed somewhere I would (rightly or wrongly) assume it is because market forces demand it... not my desire to be entertained or your desire for art... otherwise AC sales would drop as low as This war of mine

@dread_stone "some video games just aren't appealing and are poorly designed (like the recent AC installations)." that's just your opinion ... don't assume you speak for the world

Also I read his whole post and disagree with it. I also disagree that ALL video games are art.

The OP also said "they have stuffed this game series in our faces so much that I see it all, and worst of all other people see it and don't mention it."
If he feels he was forced to play the series he should have stopped sooner. Plus if other people see it and don't mention it then he should consider others can form their own opinion and do not feel the same way.

he also said "This is bad for games in general." why ? who say so ?

He also said "We can't just have games like Fifa, COD, Assassins Creed, Far Cry now and probably Watch Dogs soon every year representing what good games are." who is he to dictate what the world buys just because he doesn't like a game without one thing or another.... the public decides what are the best games... not someone who is hurt because he misses how a game used to be and is having a knee jerk reaction...

Every time someone on this forum feel sorry for themselves they send out salvoes Ubisoft is bad... this is bad that is bad... why not accept Ubisoft make games and just because we enjoyed some .. it doesn't follow we will enjoy the next... He's entitled to his opinion but the petty name calling belongs in the school playground.

dread_stone
10-04-2015, 01:01 AM
"some video games just aren't appealing and are poorly designed (like the recent AC installations)." that's just your opinion ... don't assume you speak for the world

Also I read his whole post and disagree with it. I also disagree that ALL video games are art.
I never said that it wasn't "just [my] opinion". As I alluded to before, you're putting words into other people's posts.

Video games, according to the definition of 'art', are most definitely pieces of art. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Whether you agree with it or not is none of my concern.

strigoi1958
10-04-2015, 01:28 AM
Then write "IMHO like recent AC installations" because I accept others have their own opinions and don't write "video games are fun and appealing (just like recent AC installations)" what you think is fact and what is fact is not fact :D whether you believe it is... is none of my concern either.

dread_stone
10-04-2015, 02:08 AM
what you think is fact and what is fact is not fact :D
*facepalm*

So nothing is true? Is everything permitted as well?

Seriously, you need to read before you post and stop jumping the gun with your assumptions as well.

I-Like-Pie45
10-04-2015, 03:09 AM
I agree with you o.p. It's sad to see this happening. :(

Syndicate doesn't get me looking forward to it, I started loosing interest from Unity sadly. :(

omg adventurewomen

i thought you were dead <3 xoxoxo

ze_topazio
10-04-2015, 03:14 AM
I agree with you o.p. It's sad to see this happening. :(

Syndicate doesn't get me looking forward to it, I started loosing interest from Unity sadly. :(

The chances of Connor appearing are really small, but there are rumors of the Kenway family having some kind of importance in Syndicate, don't give up hope yet.

RVSage
10-04-2015, 03:26 AM
Unity , did not give the lore a continuity, thus it feels like a completely new game, with nothing connecting it to the past.

In my opinion there are four pillars

1. Stealth
2. Navigation
3. combat
and last but not the leasr

4. Story

The story of AC universe is out of track. If syndicate can fix that. Maybe people will feel the connection again

Ignacio_796
10-04-2015, 10:38 AM
I hear what you are saying but I play games for fun.. if they are not fun or amusing I'm not interested... I don't know how many other people play games not for fun ? if you get or got anything other than fun from a game then that is good... but I'm pretty sure that is the fundamental reason for them.

If you were not entertained by the Ezio trilogy.. that's not the games fault that is just your personal taste.

Who said that i was not entertained by the Ezy Trilogy? Entertained or amused and fun is not the same. You can be entertained or enjoy the experience, but that does not mean that the experience itself is fun. Ezio story is about vengeance and tragedy, i didn't felt like i was having fun, i didn't laugh about it, i enjoyed as a compelling story. Is my favorite game of the franchise. But if you insist in consider the Ezio's games as just fun product where the mechanics are the only thing important, let me tell you that in that regard, AC2 is improvable to say the least (broken repetitive easy combat, ton of pointless collectibles, no enemy variety, auto-fail missions if detected...). Again, the artistic value of AC2 overshadows the fun or mechanical aspect of the game. At the end, i dont have nice memories of AC2 because combat or parkour, but because Venice, the main character, the story...etc.


This war of mine has taken 3 million euros in sales according to google. Probably because it's depressing... something can be critically acclaimed and still be unpopular.
If the franchise is headed somewhere I would (rightly or wrongly) assume it is because market forces demand it... not my desire to be entertained or your desire for art... otherwise AC sales would drop as low as This war of mine

This war of mine has taken 3 million of euros not because is unpopular, is because is NOT as popular. Is an Indie game, you cannot compare it to the sales of AC, a well stablished, long-running AAA series with high production values and big marketing campaigns that ensure that every single gamer gets to know about this franchise. That game (This war of mine), was very well recommended for the people who played it, and its consider one of the best game of last year.

But the thing is, you CAN make fun, well-designed games without disregarding the artistic value. To this day, this franchise continues without having a narrative purpose or leading to a conclusion, the story overall is poor nowadays, the MD aspect is gone, and these games are released each year no matter what tha F@ck happens, because that is what AC has become, an irrelevant, untrascendental product that will be forgotten when the next game releases next year. Also, i dont see where is the fun of modern AC games, at least, compared to the other games of the competence (Shadows of Mordor...) IMO.



Also I read his whole post and disagree with it. I also disagree that ALL video games are art.

AC certainly are, at least in its conception and beginnings.


The OP also said "they have stuffed this game series in our faces so much that I see it all, and worst of all other people see it and don't mention it."
If he feels he was forced to play the series he should have stopped sooner. Plus if other people see it and don't mention it then he should consider others can form their own opinion and do not feel the same way.

he also said "This is bad for games in general." why ? who say so ?

He also said "We can't just have games like Fifa, COD, Assassins Creed, Far Cry now and probably Watch Dogs soon every year representing what good games are." who is he to dictate what the world buys just because he doesn't like a game without one thing or another.... the public decides what are the best games... not someone who is hurt because he misses how a game used to be and is having a knee jerk reaction...

The ''guy who is hurt because he misses how a game used to be and is having a knee jerk reaction'' forms part of the public aswell, his opinion counts as much as any other person, and let me tell you, that I heard his opinion before, a lot of times. I heard how people notice the lack of quality of recent AC games, and the ''mainstream'' public each year gives two craps less about these games. A lot of people still buys this games, but still.... if you read a lot of comments in the AC news of popular gaming webs you will see that the ''general consensus'' is that AC is not as great as before and that a lot of people are burned and bored of this franchise, and that the yearly releases are one of the main reasons for the drop of quality.

Jessigirl2013
10-04-2015, 10:47 AM
I agree .... the series has lost the MD that I loved..

Not only that but its also lost the signature AC WTF moments. Anyone else miss them??
That made suspense for the next entry... I mean the last two AC ending... like WTF!. After BF and Unity I had no hype whatsoever for the next game... Until we had information about Syndicate ;)

I wish they would move the MD story on already... Its dragging and getting tiring... I mean what new information did we get from Unity?????:mad:. None.


The chances of Connor appearing are really small, but there are rumors of the Kenway family having some kind of importance in Syndicate, don't give up hope yet.

The Kenway manor is on the map in collectors editions. ;)

So it will probably be reference in-game.

strigoi1958
10-04-2015, 03:17 PM
Entertained or amused and fun is not the same maybe not in your world, that's the most foolish thing I've ever read. If you enjoy something it is fun.

the artistic value of AC2 overshadows the fun or mechanical aspect of the game Only to some ... don't think that applies to the average gamer.

This war of mine has taken 3 million of euros not because is unpopular, is because is NOT as popular. The opposite of popular IS unpopular perhaps you mean less well known.


The ''guy who is hurt because he misses how a game used to be and is having a knee jerk reaction'' forms part of the public aswell, his opinion counts as much as any other person, and let me tell you, that I heard his opinion before, a lot of times. I heard how people notice the lack of quality of recent AC games, and the ''mainstream'' public each year gives two craps less about these games. A lot of people still buys this games, but still.... if you read a lot of comments in the AC news of popular gaming webs you will see that the ''general consensus'' is that AC is not as great as before and that a lot of people are burned and bored of this franchise, and that the yearly releases are one of the main reasons for the drop of quality.

He's entitled to his opinion... as are we.... but he was having a tantrum, he wants something that has gone and because he is not getting it... Ubisoft are bad, Ubisoft are greedy so I asked him "were they bad when they made the games he liked ?" which showed Ubisoft are not bad... only bad to people who don't get their own way.

As you say a lot of people still buy these games... and that contradicts with what you say about general concensus and a lot of popular gaming web sites comments... make your mind up.. are lots of people buying it or not ?

Anyway if AC doesn't offer him or you or anyone else what you are looking for in a game... just go.... I would... my ego isn't that big that I expect global companies to bow down to my demands.

misterB2001
10-04-2015, 06:06 PM
everything that elevated AC above every other game that i have played has been removed or diluted to a point where it's not not very fun any more. Modern Day, Subject 16, Desmond, TWCB, the secrets, glyphs, mysteries, secret tombs and conspiracies are gone. The very reason to be playing an ancestor has gone and with that there isn't any meaning anymore.

Assassins creed is now effectively a historical GTA. which is very, very, very bad IMO.

No more Patrice, No more Corey May, no chance of it ever returning to it's peak.

Ignacio_796
10-04-2015, 07:58 PM
Entertained or amused and fun is not the same maybe not in your world, that's the most foolish thing I've ever read. If you enjoy something it is fun.

the artistic value of AC2 overshadows the fun or mechanical aspect of the game Only to some ... don't think that applies to the average gamer.

This war of mine has taken 3 million of euros not because is unpopular, is because is NOT as popular. The opposite of popular IS unpopular perhaps you mean less well known.


The ''guy who is hurt because he misses how a game used to be and is having a knee jerk reaction'' forms part of the public aswell, his opinion counts as much as any other person, and let me tell you, that I heard his opinion before, a lot of times. I heard how people notice the lack of quality of recent AC games, and the ''mainstream'' public each year gives two craps less about these games. A lot of people still buys this games, but still.... if you read a lot of comments in the AC news of popular gaming webs you will see that the ''general consensus'' is that AC is not as great as before and that a lot of people are burned and bored of this franchise, and that the yearly releases are one of the main reasons for the drop of quality.

He's entitled to his opinion... as are we.... but he was having a tantrum, he wants something that has gone and because he is not getting it... Ubisoft are bad, Ubisoft are greedy so I asked him "were they bad when they made the games he liked ?" which showed Ubisoft are not bad... only bad to people who don't get their own way.

As you say a lot of people still buy these games... and that contradicts with what you say about general concensus and a lot of popular gaming web sites comments... make your mind up.. are lots of people buying it or not ?

Anyway if AC doesn't offer him or you or anyone else what you are looking for in a game... just go.... I would... my ego isn't that big that I expect global companies to bow down to my demands.


If you go to a museum and you see a portrait of Las Meninas, and you feel inspired or intrigue about a hidden meaning of the painting, you're not exactly having fun, you don't laugh because the portrait is FUNNY, you observe as what it is... a piece of art. ''If you enjoy something is because is fun'', well sure i enjoyed The Ring, and that movie is not supposed to be ''fun'', is supposed to be scary you know. Enjoyment comes in many ways

It looks like you read only what you want to read, and answer just the few points that you can disscuss ignoring the rest, so it seems that i'll have to repeat again what i said before. FUN and ART are not opposites or uncompatible. AC was so succesful in the first place because its artistic value (recreation of cities, intriguing story filled with mysticism...), as other games had more polished mechanics (Arkham series, Hitman or heck, even INFAMOUS). Story and Historical Recreation are art, and those were the most notorious things in the game.

I had a ''few'' averages gamers around and they tell me that the collectibles sucked, the combat could had use some improvements (boring and repetitive). I can not now the opinion of the entire average market , and neither can you. So i can use the exact same point. I'm just saying that the most common opinion about this franchise is that is not as good, nor as popular as it used to be, due to poor story telling and the abolition of MD, that happens to be just a narrative section where mechanics act to tell a story... you know, art stuff, art stuff that happened to be one of the most important and unique things about AC. If you think that is a lie, go ''outside'' of the AC forums and ask.

Yes, i was meaning that TWOM is not as known as AC, thats why I is used the expression NOT AS POPULAR instead of unpopular. Either way, my point persists.

Saying that a lot of people still buys these games doesn't contradict the general consensus in any way. Saying that would mean that the MAJORITY of the WHOLE gaming market buys these games, which as you can understand, is not true. In fact, sales has been decreassing for some reason you know....
A lot people still buys COD, and we dont have to argue what is the general opinion about THAT franchise.

The only one here that seems to have his ego hurted is you, you seem to give a lot of importance to some jerks that are criticising the franchise you like, not offense intended

Farlander1991
10-04-2015, 08:06 PM
AC was so succesful in the first place because its artistic value (recreation of cities, intriguing story filled with mysticism...), as other games had more polished mechanics (Arkham series, Hitman or heck, even INFAMOUS). Story and Historical Recreation are art, and those were the most notorious things in the game.

You may call me biased as I am a game designer, but mechanics are also art. They provide a certain experience to the player. But in general, everything's important for a great game. Just like in movies what makes it best is the marriage between visuals, editing, music, acting, etc. etc. etc., so in games the best ones are the marriage of all the different elements, including mechanics, emerging narrative, and other things.

To me that's what great game design is - not just certain elements, but how everything acts together to provide a certain experience to the player.

Sushiglutton
10-04-2015, 08:26 PM
You may call me biased as I am a game designer, but mechanics are also art. They provide a certain experience to the player. But in general, everything's important for a great game. Just like in movies what makes it best is the marriage between visuals, editing, music, acting, etc. etc. etc., so in games the best ones are the marriage of all the different elements, including mechanics, emerging narrative, and other things.

To me that's what great game design is - not just certain elements, but how everything acts together to provide a certain experience to the player.

I agree with this so much, that's why AC's design is so disapointing. To me the prime goal of AC should be to immerse the player into these fantastic historcial worlds. And Ubi does a lot of work with this in mind. And yet there are sooo many elements that constantly pulls you out of the fantasy. It doesn't make any sense to me. They have researched songs from the era, very accurate about architecture, clothing and so on and yet the player is constantly bombarded by moronic messages like "5/60 Corner kills". The visual presentation (HUD, cues) kills much of the hard work done.

If AC was consistent about creating an immersive experience it would be fantastic. Unfortunately it's diluted by elements designed to get you into some kind of hamster wheel and give the illusion of a massive amount of content. That's what is destroying the franchise more than anything imo.

Farlander1991
10-04-2015, 09:04 PM
I agree with this so much, that's why AC's design is so disapointing. To me the prime goal of AC should be to immerse the player into these fantastic historcial worlds. And Ubi does a lot of work with this in mind. And yet there are sooo many elements that constantly pulls you out of the fantasy. It doesn't make any sense to me. They have researched songs from the era, very accurate about architecture, clothing and so on and yet the player is constantly bombarded by moronic messages like "5/60 Corner kills". The visual presentation (HUD, cues) kills much of the hard work done.

If AC was consistent about creating an immersive experience it would be fantastic. Unfortunately it's diluted by elements designed to get you into some kind of hamster wheel and give the illusion of a massive amount of content. That's what is destroying the franchise more than anything imo.

Ironic, given that one of your favourite games is Arkham City that places big huge green question marks ****ing everywhere, the screen is frequently filled with compass and health and combo meters and different meters like signal and wtf not on the edges, and new objectives always popping up on the very center of the screen, and a detective mode that shows everything in an array of colors and schematic messages, pretty much all the stuff you hate AC for :p

(hope it's understandable that I've said that in good spirit with no intent of being mean)

That said, you view AC as a historical experience, I do not. Well, not exactly at least. To me the Animus is part of the experience. You know the famous 'chase chickens instead of saving the world' problem? Well, to me that can really take me out of the experience, but in AC it doesn't because the order we do things in is not necessarily the order the ancestor did things in. And other stuff too, like in GTAIV Nico tries to be all dramatic and such and is not really for killing people in the narrative, and yet in gameplay we're like 'WOOOO MAYHEM YAAAAAAA!!!!', while, again, in AC there's no such problem. So the Animus actually in a way enhances the open-world historical experience to me by making all the possible gameplay open-world experience pretty much invisible.

I agree though that Animus HUD design is not the best in some of the AC games. Luckily though, most of it is customizable to your preferences of what you want or don't want to show on screen, though I think it should be even more customizable. AC1 for example has some very clean and sleek design in terms of HUD which I love a lot.

Farlander1991
10-04-2015, 09:27 PM
Regarding Arkham City, I want to add one thing though, that it has a dynamic HUD which is actually a great idea, as it shows only relevant information when it's needed, but there are quite a lot of times when **** just gets cluttered (mostly in the open world rather than in mission specific areas). AC would do well to learn from it, as it's actually a very good idea :)

Ignacio_796
10-04-2015, 09:29 PM
You may call me biased as I am a game designer, but mechanics are also art. They provide a certain experience to the player. But in general, everything's important for a great game. Just like in movies what makes it best is the marriage between visuals, editing, music, acting, etc. etc. etc., so in games the best ones are the marriage of all the different elements, including mechanics, emerging narrative, and other things.

To me that's what great game design is - not just certain elements, but how everything acts together to provide a certain experience to the player.

Couldn't agree more. In this case im just separating the mechanical elements as a representation of fun and story telling as art to show that games are made and form part of an artistic activity. But of course, a good game is one that brings you an experience using every single element at its disspose.

In the case of AC2 i just think that the recreation, the story and the character are better than its gameplay. Of course we have game like The Last of Us, that show you how fragile the main character is taking advantage of gameplay.

As you said and know better than me, games are not just mechanics plus artistical elements, overall every single element serves to create art.

strigoi1958
10-04-2015, 09:32 PM
@ignacio I'm making allowances because I believe English is not your 1st language... I don't know why you keep saying FUNNY when I say FUN they are not the same... I can have fun at a museum or the movies without it being FUNNY... so you are making a point using the wrong word so you're not raising points against what I write but about something you think I wrote.
(I wouldn't go to a museum as they are not fun for me... if they were funny I'd go ;) )

And you cannot just say things like "AC was so successful in the first place because its artistic value (recreation of cities, intriguing story filled with mysticism...)" where is your proof ? can you prove that the majority of the 11 million buyers were not just buying it because it is a great game... I'm not denying AC has those things and they were great, but don't think everyone who buys and plays a video game is a historian or an art connoisseur.

What is an "average" gamer ? are you above or below an average gamer... just so I know my place your highness ;)

You say you cannot know the opinion of the market and then you say you know the opinion of the market and it just happens to coincide with your opinion :confused:... you contradict yourself when you try to make a point...

You need to understand YOU may well talk for SOME people as do I but neither of us talk for ALL the buyers of AC games. Just because the game has moved on (and probably gained a lot more fans because of it) and other people are enjoying it, you think it is no good because you don't like it.

"Saying that a lot of people still buys these games doesn't contradict the general consensus in any way." is ridiculous... you're saying it is popular... but it isn't popular. That's why I don't reply to much of what you write... because it doesn't make sense.

It doesn't hurt my ego I'm just an "average" gamer I have no pretentious reasons for liking or disliking a game... I just like them because they are fun.... the fact that they have history and art in them is a bonus.

No offense taken... I like the fact that you feel so strongly about the subject it shows you care... but you need to understand not everyone buys games for the same reasons as you. If AC became 90% story and 1st CIV and MD and only 10% playing as a historical protagonist... I'd leave.. (and go to Splinter Cell, The Division and Ghost Recon ;)) I wouldn't come here. AND that wouldn't mean the series had declined it would simply mean it now appealed to a whole new audience...

Farlander1991
10-04-2015, 09:37 PM
Couldn't agree more. In this case im just separating the mechanical elements as a representation of fun and story telling as art to show that games are made and form part of an artistic activity.

Yeah, you said somewhere here a thought that's really similar to mine, that games don't have to be fun, they have to be compelling. Only I usually use the word 'engaging' . I kinda hate the word 'fun', to be honest, as it limits what a game can be (also because the game dev community tries to define what 'fun' actually is for like a decade at the least, which is really tiring let me tell you, and I just think that maybe it takes that long to find a consensus regarding a word, that it's not the word we need)

Like, every episode of TellTale's The Walking Dead would end with me hating myself and TellTale and just feeling absolutely depressed, there's nothing fun about that, but I kept getting back because it was an amazingly crafted experience and it was, well, engaging.

Ignacio_796
10-04-2015, 10:11 PM
@ignacio I'm making allowances because I believe English is not your 1st language

Indeed.


I don't know why you keep saying FUNNY when I say FUN they are not the same... I can have fun at a museum or the movies without it being FUNNY... so you are making a point using the wrong word so you're not raising points against what I write but about something you think I wrote.

I want to ask you what is the meaning of FUN for you. Is a sad or dramatic movie, novel or comic FUN for you?



And you cannot just say things like "AC was so successful in the first place because its artistic value (recreation of cities, intriguing story filled with mysticism...)" where is your proof ? can you prove that the majority of the 11 million buyers were not just buying it because it is a great game... I'm not denying AC has those things but don't think everyone who buys and plays a video game is a historian or an art connoisseur.

What do you consider as art? Is Transformer Revenge of the Fallen art for you? Is a movie, movies are consider art (even if they are bad). AC game HAS artistical elements, Arkahm TLOU, TWOM,
COD, Banner Saga...etc has elements that are there to bring you a story, a message. when the gameplay works to build the simulation of events or a character. You dont climb around and kill guards because !Yay...fun stuff¡ but because you're an assassin (in game of course), you are playing the game to recreate a particular story. Can this mechanics be fun and at the same time serve to the purpose of the game: Of course (art and fun are not uncompatible). But in AC, gameplay mechanics doesn't lead anywhere by themselves: if a sell you a game about a random character climbing stuff and killing random people without context this wouldn't be AC, it would be something else with much less value. AC is AC because you control somebody called Ezio or Altair and you search for Pieces of Eden.


What is an "average" gamer ? are you above or below an average gamer... just so I know my place your highness ;)

Im an average gamer as you are, im just saying that if the opinion about AC not being as good as before is so common this days, maybe is because for a reason.


You say you cannot know the opinion of the market and then you say you know the opinion of the market and it just happens to coincide with your opinion :confused:... you contradict yourself when you try to make a point...

You need to understand YOU may well talk for SOME people as do I but neither of us talk for ALL the buyers of AC games. Just because the game has moved on (and probably gained a lot more fans because of it) and other people are enjoying it, you think it is no good because you don't like it.

"Saying that a lot of people still buys these games doesn't contradict the general consensus in any way." is ridiculous... you're saying it is popular... but it isn't popular. That's why I don't reply to much of what you write... because it doesn't make sense.

You know that there's a middle point in there, this franchise is still popular, the name AC means something because its legacy. What im saying is that is not as popular as before, and that nowadays people dont respect the AC franchise as much as before. I DONT know the opinion of the market, i know what is the most common complaint about AC these days from people that post in forums or social media. The market is huge, with a high percentage of ''casual'' gamers or people who just don't share the opinion on internet because they dont care or they dont want. The people who gives this opinion is an unespecified percentage of the whole market. I cannot say if they are the majority or not, what i can see is that if this opinion is so common, it MAY be because drop in quality.

And again, im not saying that gameplay is horrible in AC, im just saying that most of the enjoyment came to me from the story and characters. Did you enjoyed more the combat and parkour and nothing else... its fine. But come back and play those again, you're going to see notorious flaws from a mile away compared to its competitors at that time. I don't think AC was a vessel created to accomodate the combat system. The combat system was created from the historical and narrative context of AC IMO.


It doesn't hurt my ego I'm just an "average" gamer I have no pretentious reasons for liking or disliking a game... I just like them because they are fun.... the fact that they have history and art in them is a bonus.

No offense taken... I like the fact that you feel so strongly about the subject it shows you care... but you need to understand not everyone buys games for the same reasons as you.

And i fully understand that there is people who still enjoys the franchise, never said the contrary. What i care about is the drop in story telling, MD, yearly releases, techincal problems...etc.
Never said that you can not enjoy whatever you want however you want.

Rugterwyper32
10-04-2015, 10:18 PM
Well, talking from my perspective, my view of it hasn't changed all that much other than the magic from entering the cities in AC1 for the first time has been lost. But then again, that tends to be a one-time thing which unfortunately you just can't experience again as it's the awe from playing for the first time.
I've never really been someone who loves modern day, so I can say that it hasn't really moved the way I feel about my experience either way. Sometimes it's interesting enough for me to want to see where it goes, sometimes I don't care at all, but so long as it works as a clever framing device that's about it for me. I came in for the historical part, if modern day is good that's a pleasant surprise but not essential in my eyes. AC1 and AC4 have my favorite modern day parts to date, mostly because both are more on the quiet side of things and focus on the mystery moreso than other things, and I still praise how the animus concept makes a lot of things make sense, like memory walls instead of Oblivion and Skyrim's "you cannot go this way, turn back" invisible walls.
As for the historical part, it fluctuates a lot on quality, but it's still the one series that gives me the experience this one does. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Until there's another series that isn't an RTS that gives me the same historical experience AC does or better, I'm sticking with this series. Say all you want about it and compare it to other yearly series, but the main thing about it here is that I see no real competition. Gameplay-wise you had Shadow of Mordor last year, and then for another kinda cool historical game with some conspiracy elements and open world you had The Saboteur (pretty good one, that), but beyond that? I can think of nothing. And that talks for itself as to why this series can keep going with ease.

I-Like-Pie45
10-04-2015, 10:48 PM
Yeah, you said somewhere here a thought that's really similar to mine, that games don't have to be fun, they have to be compelling. Only I usually use the word 'engaging' . I kinda hate the word 'fun', to be honest, as it limits what a game can be (also because the game dev community tries to define what 'fun' actually is for like a decade at the least, which is really tiring let me tell you, and I just think that maybe it takes that long to find a consensus regarding a word, that it's not the word we need)

Like, every episode of TellTale's The Walking Dead would end with me hating myself and TellTale and just feeling absolutely depressed, there's nothing fun about that, but I kept getting back because it was an amazingly crafted experience and it was, well, engaging.

yes

pressing random buttons to see cutscene is very fun

much engaging

Ignacio_796
10-04-2015, 11:00 PM
yes

pressing random buttons to see cutscene is very fun

much engaging


Well what you really do is make the character take actions in especified moments, like an interactive story. Yes, there's less interactivity, but the story is great and cause every element serves to enhance the narrative experience at the end i felt inmersed and engage with the characters and i remember every decission i had to take.

strigoi1958
10-04-2015, 11:27 PM
@ Ignacio my definition of fun is anything I find enjoyable.... or as Farlander may say engaging.

Sad movies can be enjoyable regardless of whatever emotion they make us feel... your problem lies with the fact that because the aspects of the game you like are declining i.e. story telling, MD you wrongly assume the whole game series is declining ... I'm telling you that people can still enjoy playing it and do not feel it is declining and others may well be buying it now because those things are less prominent.
I have no opinion either way.. if they are in or out it doesn't matter to me as long as the game is fun. And actually YAY I can just climb around and kill people without any intertwined storyline I just accept the fact that we are in a machine reliving memories... I can happily be Ezio, Connor, Edward, Haytham, Altair, Jacob, Evie or Arno without the need to ever come back to an office, or to see some 1st civ "stuff" or anything that you place emphasis upon.

AC is a video game with emphasis on history and not a history or art video with emphasis on gaming...

What I consider art is not important... this is a gaming forum. I don't buy games because they look pretty... (if they do look as awesome as Unity... great :D) I don't buy games because I want to be informed (but if they do teach me something ... great) I don't want 150 FPS at 4k 30 to 60 @ 1080p is gold for me. All I require is fun... to be entertained to enjoy the game... I got that mainly from the combat, the gameplay, the upgrades, parkour, crafting,sailing, sea shanties, bombs, free running, tanks, using parachutes, gliders, wagons, horse riding, missions, collectibles, stealth, viewpoints, challenges, a sense of achievement, satisfaction etc... etc.. all the things that people tend to gloss over while remembering "the good old days".

As for what people write on the internet... it doesn't sway my opinion in anyway... it is just some people (and maybe just those with an axe to grind) have said something. But answer me this .... If Syndicate came out this month and returned to every single thing you like... a storyline so full of art, history, MD, 1st CIV and totally surpassed everything you felt for the previous AC games an became the best ever selling AC game ever... how much notice would you take of these "general concensus" if they still said it was in decline.. or would you dislike it if it had a few bugs on day 1 (as EVERY AAA game has) and refuse to play it ?
I guarantee..., you would have as little interest in the "general concensus" then as I do now.

So telling me there are some people on the internet that agree with you is not important. And YOU keep saying AC is not as good as it was before... I'm saying that I (and other people) think it is... I don't see a drop in quality I see the evolution and as for yearly releases.. they leave me feeling empty because I have to wait so long for the next one... if it was every 6 months I'd be happier.. you can easily miss a game and get your way... I cannot make Ubisoft develop twice as quickly.

I've never had a technical problem or glitch that affected gameplay.

@Rutgerwyper I thought I was the only Fan of Devlin and Saboteur on this forum, nice to see another one:D

I-Like-Pie45
10-04-2015, 11:39 PM
Well what you really do is make the character take actions in especified moments, like an interactive story. Yes, there's less interactivity, but the story is great and cause every element serves to enhance the narrative experience at the end i felt inmersed and engage with the characters and i remember every decission i had to take.

interactive story is merely a term invented by wannabe intellectuals to hide the shame that they're just watching a movie pretending to be a game

Ignacio_796
10-05-2015, 12:34 AM
@ Ignacio my definition of fun is anything I find enjoyable.... or as Farlander may say engaging.

Let set one thing clear, when im referring to a fun game, it is a game that provides you with an enjoyable distraction that does not involve any kind bad or negative feeling like sadness or fear. You kill guards and you don't care in anyway, ITS FUN. But i didn't enjoyed the tragedy of Ezio as a FUN experience, but as sad one.


Sad movies can be enjoyable regardless of whatever emotion they make us feel...

Enjoyability comes in many ways, i said that before.


Your problem lies with the fact that because the aspects of the game you like are declining i.e. story telling, MD you wrongly assume the whole game series is declining ... I'm telling you that people can still enjoy playing it and do not feel it is declining and others may well be buying it now because those things are less prominent.
I have no opinion either way.. if they are in or out it doesn't matter to me as long as the game is fun. And actually YAY I can just climb around and kill people without any intertwined storyline I just accept the fact that we are in a machine reliving memories... I can happily be Ezio, Connor, Edward, Haytham, Altair, Jacob, Evie or Arno without the need to ever come back to an office, or to see some 1st civ "stuff" or anything that you place emphasis upon.

For the thir time FUN and Artistic are not uncompatible.

So do you accept that those elements and artistic elements are declining? FINALLY. You know that was initially the main point... that every people here that enjoys AC for its artistic value does not enjoy these games anymore, while you have been saying that AC is not trying to be since its conception a piece of art, but just a fun game where you kill guys like in GTA. That wouldn't be a problem if....


AC is a video game with emphasis on history and not a history or art video with emphasis on gaming...

You said it, emphasis on story (or history), every single element is there to fullfill the artistic purpose of historic and context recreation so the story makes sense. If AC was just a piece of Fun stuff why not allow me to play with machine guns in Middle Ages or the ability to fly? That is fun, but it would break the historical recreation and you wouldn't take the story seriously... So yeah, AC is trying to be a piece of art since its conception. You have clunky sword fighting instead of the exagerated combat and extremely acrobatic parkour of Prince of Persia, because you are now controlling Altair a ''real guy'' in ''realistic world' (except for some concession like the Leap of faith which is there as practicall function):'



What I consider art is not important... this is a gaming forum.

It is important since you don't consider the game as art, but i do, and you're trying to prove me wrong, so you have to specify what is art and why games are outside of what is consider to be art. If not it will be like: ''Games are not art, but im not gonna say why, because we are talking about games, and games are not art....''



I don't buy games because they look pretty... (if they do look as awesome as Unity... great :D) I don't buy games because I want to be informed (but if they do teach me something ... great) I don't want 150 FPS at 4k 30 to 60 @ 1080p is gold for me. All I require is fun... to be entertained to enjoy the game...

You are limiting your vision of what art is. Don't you buy games for the story or settings (you know especially the settings are what is more notorious in the AC games).


I got that mainly from the combat, the gameplay, the upgrades, parkour, crafting,sailing, sea shanties, bombs, free running, tanks, using parachutes, gliders, wagons, horse riding, missions, collectibles, stealth, viewpoints, challenges, a sense of achievement, satisfaction etc... etc.. all the things that people tend to gloss over while remembering "the good old days".

Repetitive, button smashing easy combat with sometimes broken mechanics (Unitys sharpshooters), upgrades that sometimes are well done and others are just more about time walls than to customize your experience, enjoyable sea shanties (i'll give you that) automatic and non-challenging, unvariable parkour system, overpower bombs and tools, (freerunning is the same as parkour), tanks? is that really a characteristic AC thing (also just in Bro), enjoyable parachutes (just in Bro and Reve), gliders? (just in 2 and Bro for a mission), wagons? i mean they are present but... is that really something FUN in the AC games to this day?; sometimes decent , most of the time horrible horse riding, missions that can be great or can be awful, horrible collectibles that should burn in hell cause they dont add ANYTHING to the game but to make you gather useless crap, improvable or downright rudimentary stealth (especially in the first games), repetitive viewpoint, challenges? (well if you are refering to the guild challenges then okay), and a sense of repetition and horrid frustration to see that you still have to complete a map full of souless content...
Nobody is glossing over anything, just seeing things from a different point of view. Who's right? You or me? I'm certainly not going to change my point of view, nor will you...


As for what people write on the internet... it doesn't sway my opinion in anyway... it is just some people (and maybe just those with an axe to grind) have said something. But answer me this .... If Syndicate came out this month and returned to every single thing you like... a storyline so full of art, history, MD, 1st CIV and totally surpassed everything you felt for the previous AC games an became the best ever selling AC game ever... how much notice would you take of these "general concensus" if they still said it was in decline.. or would you dislike it if it had a few bugs on day 1 (as EVERY AAA game has) and refuse to play it ?
I guarantee..., you would have as little interest in the "general concensus" then as I do now.

The thing is that i belong to that ''general consensus'', i don't have my opinion because the ''majority'' says this thing, just happens that i have seen my opinion IN the ''general consensus''. Again, does that mean im right or wrong? It does not matter because at the end, what i think about the game is that is not as good as before, if a lot of people has the same complain about the same stuff, that means that im not alone in my opinion. Whatever the case, i know that i will not enjoy future AC games as before for the reason posted in here and in previous post.



So telling me there are some people on the internet that agree with you is not important. And YOU keep saying AC is not as good as it was before... I'm saying that I (and other people) think it is... I don't see a drop in quality I see the evolution and as for yearly releases.. they leave me feeling empty because I have to wait so long for the next one... if it was every 6 months I'd be happier.. you can easily miss a game and get your way... I cannot make Ubisoft develop twice as quickly.

Well i DO see a drop of quality.
1 game each 6 months.... you'll eventually get tired by it, believe it or not, not because you wont be able to escape from AC but because the low quality that a franchise with a 6 month schedule will have.



I've never had a technical problem or glitch that affected gameplay.


I and other hundreds of people had techincal problems (couldn't play the first days), and that is not a matter of who is the majority here, this is a that a AAA game being released in such a state is unforgivable. Saying that just a small percentage of people are having problems (which is doubtful) is not a valid excuse, as to this day, me and others still have framerate issues....

Ignacio_796
10-05-2015, 12:47 AM
interactive story is merely a term invented by wannabe intellectuals to hide the shame that they're just watching a movie pretending to be a game

Well i think that an interactive story is narrative experience in which the player can take part in the action or development or said story in a meaningful way, which is what you do in the Walking Dead.

I-Like-Pie45
10-05-2015, 12:50 AM
Well i think that an interactive story is narrative experience in which the player can take part in the action or development or said story in a meaningful way, which is what you do in the Walking Dead.

so basically you are referring to boring generic cutscene shooters like call of duty, grand theft auto, the last of us, metal gear solid, fallout, skyrim, uncharted, halo, and the journey

whatever happened to the days when games were all about gameplay and wasn't bogged down by useless things like story, like true masterpieces such as pac-man

this is why the assassins creed series is dying

because they started focusing on the story, graphics, and other unimportant stuff when all they really needed was some pen and paper + imagination

Pr0metheus 1962
10-05-2015, 12:54 AM
...every episode of TellTale's The Walking Dead would end with me hating myself and TellTale and just feeling absolutely depressed, there's nothing fun about that, but I kept getting back because it was an amazingly crafted experience and it was, well, engaging.

Have you tried Until Dawn? It's similar to The Walking Dead, but it's more of an adventure game, and the choices are more meaningful and the graphics are incredible

Ignacio_796
10-05-2015, 01:04 AM
so basically you are referring to boring generic cutscene shooters like call of duty, grand theft auto, the last of us, metal gear solid, fallout, skyrim, uncharted, halo, and the journey

whatever happened to the days when games were all about gameplay and wasn't bogged down by useless things like story, like true masterpieces such as pac-man

this is why the assassins creed series is dying

because they started focusing on the story, graphics, and other unimportant stuff when all they really needed was some pen and paper + imagination

What are you even talking about... Pacman HAD a greedy and dark story about the contrast of morale of american society of the 30s and the lust for power and the importance of family,love and friendship:
https://meezmontana.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/pacman_reloaded_by_c_so.jpg

Assassin_M
10-05-2015, 01:07 AM
I never really liked the Heavy Rain, Beyond Two Souls or Walking Dead type of games. I don't go around saying they're not "real games" or think that their players are not real gamers. They're games and their players are just as much gamers as any Dark Soul player. But the genre just doesn't appeal to me and usually, I think the acting is bad and the story is mediocre.

Rugterwyper32
10-05-2015, 01:14 AM
I need to bring back a classic from the good old times when L-Block won the best character contest in Gamefaqs

"Tetris indeed.

It’s like the most artistic form to tell a story. It really shows politically how corrupt a government can be in maintaining our crumbling economy. It also involves the outlook on how overpopulated the humn race has become, consuming all the space we can take up. All the colors show the different diverse characters colliding together in forced conflict and unable to break apart unless they reunite with others they can relate to. The pace starts out slow until it speeds up at just the right time to cause a great deal of tension.

In the end, the outstanding performance of the “L block” has really given a sense of purpose in what it takes to be a top notch videogame character.

In Silent Hill you get characters in monotone. In RE you get cliche’d generic characters. Mario is just a mess from the start for being an Itallian plumber who takes shrooms and trips out in his “mushroom kingdom”.

MGS goes all over the place too. Solid Snake is getting too old now to move on and his time in videogames is coming at an end.

Which is why the “L block” is so special. He’s timeless. He relates to major events in our past, present, and future."

Ignacio_796
10-05-2015, 01:24 AM
I need to bring back a classic from the good old times when L-Block won the best character contest in Gamefaqs

"Tetris indeed.

It’s like the most artistic form to tell a story. It really shows politically how corrupt a government can be in maintaining our crumbling economy. It also involves the outlook on how overpopulated the humn race has become, consuming all the space we can take up. All the colors show the different diverse characters colliding together in forced conflict and unable to break apart unless they reunite with others they can relate to. The pace starts out slow until it speeds up at just the right time to cause a great deal of tension.

In the end, the outstanding performance of the “L block” has really given a sense of purpose in what it takes to be a top notch videogame character.

In Silent Hill you get characters in monotone. In RE you get cliche’d generic characters. Mario is just a mess from the start for being an Itallian plumber who takes shrooms and trips out in his “mushroom kingdom”.

MGS goes all over the place too. Solid Snake is getting too old now to move on and his time in videogames is coming at an end.

Which is why the “L block” is so special. He’s timeless. He relates to major events in our past, present, and future."

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k258/ZZoMBiEXIII/L-1.jpg

I remember when L-Block betrayed his country in the mass murder of 1992 with the purpose of awaking an inactive society so they notice the current overpopulation and decadent economic system. A character that plays its role not because he likes it but because its necessary.

Cant wait for the L Block-Ezio- Jar Jar Binks crossover.

strigoi1958
10-05-2015, 02:06 AM
@ignacio I'm going to make this simple...

The button mashing stuff as you call it or the list of all the engaging things I wrote are A GAME... you are waffling about art ... take out all the things you like and it remains a GAME ....you hate AC for being a game LOL ...:D.

Just because you think the game should be taken away and replaced by a story don't think you speak for everyone because some people have a similar idea... i

So to be clear I don't care that you don't like AC because it is a game I like AC because it's fun...

Don't let the door hit you on the way out :D

D.I.D.
10-05-2015, 03:00 AM
Conversely, I have a friend who was an extremely skilful Quake III player back in the day, and she recently bought a PS4 having been a bit out of the loop for a while. To her, the new AC looks extremely exciting. There's another friend of mine who hadn't played or seen any ACs in action until I showed him Black Flag when that first came out. He couldn't believe what he was seeing, so I bought it for him. (You probably remember Black Flag as being a really pleasant surprise :) ). When he saw Unity the next year on my computer, he was floored all over again. I could show both of them the Ezio games today and they'd probably think they were nice enough, but you'd have a hard time persuading them that the old games are better than the new ones.

Some of you need to make peace with the fact that you're never going to experience the series with fresh eyes again. You also need to understand the old games as products of their time. They stood out then and they deserved to do so, but you can't simply repeat them. We also have to recognise that they got away with an awful lot, because they were first to the plate, which no game would get away with today. We should honour ACII for what it did for games in general, because it created a new benchmark for what an open-world game experience could be. We don't need to make it a target for what an AC game could/should be.

I'm not going to pretend that the series hasn't lost something, and perhaps they need a little time to rediscover what that is. Personally, I think Unity already put a hell of a lot back into the series that had been missing for a while, and I don't think it got enough credit for that, as well as introducing brand new approaches. I think Dead Kings did something astonishing with graphics and atmosphere that got lost in its bleakness. I'm English, so that bleakness is about a third of every year for me, so maybe I see beauty in it where other people would not! The filtering and lighting came together in ways that are almost photographic, and I think it opens a door to something very different in the games' future. I'm hoping that the movie can be good for the series now, in terms of balancing which trappings of the series deserve to stay and which do not, and creating more pressure to get the story, script and acting up to par with the movie counterpart.

The community is pretty incoherent now, and extracting its wants even from individual people would be a tough job. If any of you are complaining about anachronistic gadgets like the rope launcher in Victorian AC but are also nostalgic for Leonardo's glider and tanks, please consider the enormous contradiction in this. In fact, look at the hidden blade,ffs. If we were being true to the spirit of the series, Syndicate would have been absolutely riddled with insane gadgetry. It should have been an imaginative playground of secret laboratory silliness, but you probably wouldn't have stood for that. That's because your ideas of what AC should be have shifted considerably since those early games, whether you acknowledge it or not.

HDinHB
10-05-2015, 03:04 AM
You said it, emphasis on story (or history), every single element is there to fullfill the artistic purpose of historic and context recreation so the story makes sense. If AC was just a piece of Fun stuff why not allow me to play with machine guns in Middle Ages or the ability to fly? That is fun, but it would break the historical recreation and you wouldn't take the story seriously... So yeah, AC is trying to be a piece of art since its conception.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhTgA7oF98g


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E86N12hiSnQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdsB6BgkJxo



I eat little kittens for breakfast
Another mutation?

Ignacio_796
10-05-2015, 09:47 AM
@ignacio I'm going to make this simple...

The button mashing stuff as you call it or the list of all the engaging things I wrote are A GAME... you are waffling about art ... take out all the things you like and it remains a GAME ....you hate AC for being a game LOL ...:D.

Just because you think the game should be taken away and replaced by a story don't think you speak for everyone because some people have a similar idea... i

So to be clear I don't care that you don't like AC because it is a game I like AC because it's fun...

Don't let the door hit you on the way out :D

What???????
Never said that you should take away the mechanical aspect and never said that AC is not a game.
Im saying that games are art, that AC is art, and the mechanical aspects are far, really really far from flawless and that i can not enjoy the gameplay anymore because it doesn't hold up to my standards, in the market there is games that are superior in terms of gameplay. Im saying that the story is not as great as it used to be.

Im waffling about games being art, not that games are art but not games...

Also your comment does not debunk all this mechanical issues that i have said before. All this flaws are there. Maybe you don't care about them or you don't want to acknowledge them, but the flaws are there.

But nontheless, you still have to ask what is art and why games are not art anyways....

Ignacio_796
10-05-2015, 09:52 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhTgA7oF98g


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E86N12hiSnQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdsB6BgkJxo



Another mutation?

An every single of this sections is acceptable within the historical context. The Leonardo's machines didn't work in real life, but they bring the opportunity to introduce these sections, taking advantage of the historical context.
And about the Eagle thingi, eeee well...... its a thing that happens in an alternate or imaginary universe so....

Ignacio_796
10-05-2015, 10:19 AM
Conversely, I have a friend who was an extremely skilful Quake III player back in the day, and she recently bought a PS4 having been a bit out of the loop for a while. To her, the new AC looks extremely exciting. There's another friend of mine who hadn't played or seen any ACs in action until I showed him Black Flag when that first came out. He couldn't believe what he was seeing, so I bought it for him. (You probably remember Black Flag as being a really pleasant surprise :) ). When he saw Unity the next year on my computer, he was floored all over again. I could show both of them the Ezio games today and they'd probably think they were nice enough, but you'd have a hard time persuading them that the old games are better than the new ones.

Maybe because that friend didn't played the first ACs, is not tired of the franchise and he does not know what AC was at the beginning. That is the key here, what AC was, why i like it in first place, why it was popular in the first place... and what is now, if its better or worse...


Some of you need to make peace with the fact that you're never going to experience the series with fresh eyes again. You also need to understand the old games as products of their time. They stood out then and they deserved to do so, but you can't simply repeat them. We also have to recognise that they got away with an awful lot, because they were first to the plate, which no game would get away with today. We should honour ACII for what it did for games in general, because it created a new benchmark for what an open-world game experience could be. We don't need to make it a target for what an AC game could/should be.

Indeed.


I'm not going to pretend that the series hasn't lost something, and perhaps they need a little time to rediscover what that is.

A narrative purpose or leading to a conclusion. AC1 and 2 were leading to something, to the end of a story. But nowadays we have ACs like Fifas or Madden. You can argue that this loss is important or not, but you have to acknowledge that this franchise is not going anywhere in terms of narrative, because it doesn't want to go anywhere.




The community is pretty incoherent now, and extracting its wants even from individual people would be a tough job. If any of you are complaining about anachronistic gadgets like the rope launcher in Victorian AC but are also nostalgic for Leonardo's glider and tanks, please consider the enormous contradiction in this. In fact, look at the hidden blade,ffs. If we were being true to the spirit of the series, Syndicate would have been absolutely riddled with insane gadgetry. It should have been an imaginative playground of secret laboratory silliness, but you probably wouldn't have stood for that. That's because your ideas of what AC should be have shifted considerably since those early games, whether you acknowledge it or not.

Maybe you're confusing what i said earlier, what i said is that the mechanichs are created in line with the historical recreation with some practical concessions, yes, you're going to see gliders and tanks, but the design of those makes sense with the renaissance, they're exploiting the oportunity that the Leonardo's scheme give them. But then you have Evie's charmeleon skill, and i have see around here the common complain that it doesn't make mix very well with the context nor with what AC is. I mean, is not game-breaking, but it shows how important the setting and historical recreation is in AC (somebody remembers the Unity's Brithish accent controversy?), if it doesn't look good or blends into the context, people (an unespecified but notorious percentage) are not going to like

''My ideas of what and Ac should be have shifted''. Yes. Why? Because is 2015, because i lived the AC2 expansions, the dissapointment that AC3 was, the change that BF was and how it mixed the best of the best (boats and improved level design) with the worst of the worst (AC3 mechanichs); i lived Unity...
Yes, after all of this i can return to AC2, see the flaws of the game that i have been acknowledging since the beginning of the post, see the mistakes of the franchise and what it has lost.

You can say that this franchise is not for me anymore, because the story and the MD and all the elements that are missing are no there. But then we can agree that this franchise has changed and that a fan from the first games has more ways to see the flaws. Some people says tha the change is for good and appreciate the scale and gameplay of the games, and others (myself included) says that this franchise sucks right now. I cannot evaluate AC2 the same as Unity because AC2 was in 2009 and Unity was released in 2014 after 6 AC games, and even then im pretty sure that AC2 had a more compelling story and charm than Unity IMO.

strigoi1958
10-05-2015, 01:31 PM
The game has changed it has grown and evolved and may now be designed to meet market demands. That doesn't make the game bad... It just means you don't want to go in the same direction and it is tired to you not the xx million who will buy it this year. I hope you find something more to your liking and maybe later you will miss ac and come back.

Legendz54
10-05-2015, 02:05 PM
AC1-AC4 all had memorable stories with memorable characters, Unity flopped it and was forgettable. Syndicate I hope can redeem it.. i stopped going to AC for a good story and just appreciated it for its good gameplay and if it by chance had a good story then lucky me..

Sadly the fanbase has gone downhill, everyone is critical... the newcomers are flocking in and the hardcore fans seem to be getting disappointed and leaving, mainly because the newer games don't cater for the older fans anymore.. its one of the reasons you and I don't see the older forum members on here and these forums are getting less active by the year.

cawatrooper9
10-05-2015, 03:02 PM
I have to reluctantly agree that the series has lost much of its soul, but I wouldn't attribute this wholly to the yearly release cycle. If they can release good games annually (and that's a big if), then why not do it? Between AC2 and AC4, the only "bad" games were ACR and AC3, and I honestly liked both of those a lot anyway.

Where I feel Ubisoft is really failing is at creating a connected universe. Altair and Ezio had a pretty solid, connected, and coherent storyline over the first four games. Then, the Kenway saga has themes, characters, and locations that absolutely benefited from their "Star Wars style" of prequel storytelling.
Now, though, it seems that we're just going to get a random Assassin from an overused historical time period each year.

I suppose that's not necessarily fair, since I haven't played the game yet and cannot say with certainty that Evie and Jacob are not connected to the greater storyline. However, even if something huge is revealed, such as Evie and Jacob being a bastard branch from the Kenway family... that really wouldn't be much more than meaningless fan service.

It seems as if Ubisoft thinks that having Sages provides enough cohesion in these games now, and I hope they learn soon that is absolutely not the case.

Ignacio_796
10-05-2015, 03:18 PM
The game has changed it has grown and evolved and may now be designed to meet market demands. That doesn't make the game bad... It just means you don't want to go in the same direction and it is tired to you not the xx million who will buy it this year. I hope you find something more to your liking and maybe later you will miss ac and come back.

I didn't knew that nowadays what the market wants is games filled with technical errors, mediocre stories, gameplay that does not hold up to the quality of the competence in favor of including as many features as possible even if that means that the game ends up to be a mess; and without some of the most characteristic things (MD).

But again, what we are discussing here is if AC is art or not. If you want to continue this disscussion you'll have to answer the question: Why AC is not art or where does it says that is should'nt be art? I already explained why I think that most of the success and kernel of this franchise resides in its artistic value rather than the FUN that the mechanical aspects can give you. Now its your turn.

Otherwise this disscussion wouldn't lead to a conclution: I'll be repeating every single argument that you have not debunked yet, and you will say that this is just my point of view and that it does not have a real ressemblance with the actual state of the franchise, acuse me of talking gibberish without fully explaining why or tell me that i am disregarding every element that could discredit my point of view... that I suffer from confirmation bias, which is completely and utterly false... as i covered and talk (in a summarized way to be fair), about almost every single element that fails to provide me an enjoyable experience in the present (gameplay, story and overall, a proper exectuion). And almost every single time you end your posts you'll bid me farewell like if you had said something so overwhelming i'll have to go forever. But not really, we're in the same point as in the beginning, you still have to prove why AC is not art.

Never said that AC is not fun, but that the artistic value its superior to just to kill a bunch of guards. Every single element of AC is there to provide the illusion of being a character in a specific setting, the main concept of AC is to revive the stories of an ancesstor and every mechanic is there as a reflection of the character talents and traits... and you say that this is not art... I didn't enjoyed Giovanni Auditore's death, Ziio's demise, Connor killing his father, the dead of Mary Read, seeing how Ezio waste his life in a cause just because it was destined to it That stuff made me comprehend more the characters and sympathize with them, and stands in my memory as the most notorious moments of those games, as I don't see how killing a random dude with no name that its the same as the others counts as a better moment than those that i mentioned. The AC universe if made of faces, of stories.

But for the fourth time, saying that games are just and only suppose to be fun means that This War of Mine, Walking Dead, Heavy Rain, Banner Saga...etc does not have any place in the market, which is of course incorrect. It also means that the moments i told you before does not have the same value as to killing that nameless guy in the roof for the 100 time, which again i don't think that is true.

So please, respond the question: What is art for you and why AC (and games) does not have any place in art or why the free roam non-contextual gameplay moments in the first ACs (like killing a random guy) overshadows the story ones (like killing a main objective and know his motives and point of view). If not, we may should leave this discussion aside, or we would be here for all eternity.

Ignacio_796
10-05-2015, 03:24 PM
I have to reluctantly agree that the series has lost much of its soul, but I wouldn't attribute this wholly to the yearly release cycle. If they can release good games annually (and that's a big if), then why not do it? Between AC2 and AC4, the only "bad" games were ACR and AC3, and I honestly liked both of those a lot anyway.

Where I feel Ubisoft is really failing is at creating a connected universe. Altair and Ezio had a pretty solid, connected, and coherent storyline over the first four games. Then, the Kenway saga has themes, characters, and locations that absolutely benefited from their "Star Wars style" of prequel storytelling.
Now, though, it seems that we're just going to get a random Assassin from an overused historical time period each year.

I suppose that's not necessarily fair, since I haven't played the game yet and cannot say with certainty that Evie and Jacob are not connected to the greater storyline. However, even if something huge is revealed, such as Evie and Jacob being a bastard branch from the Kenway family... that really wouldn't be much more than meaningless fan service.

It seems as if Ubisoft thinks that having Sages provides enough cohesion in these games now, and I hope they learn soon that is absolutely not the case.

During the Desmond saga the franchise was leading to something, to the 2012 thingy and the launch of the satelite so we felt engaged with the whole thing as we had a purpose. Nowadays, the only thing that will finish this franchise may be the decreasing of popularity and death of it, because as you said, in the ''Juno Saga'', the general story of AC is not leading anywhere.

What does Juno wants and how its going to achieve it? Is she completely Evil?
Who is going to stop her?
Is the templar and assassin war just stay in an endless hiatus as it is today?
What happens with the already stablished characters?

We may never know...

cawatrooper9
10-05-2015, 03:41 PM
During the Desmond saga the franchise was leading to something, to the 2012 thingy and the launch of the satelite so we felt engaged with the whole thing as we had a purpose. Nowadays, the only thing that will finish this franchise may be the decreasing of popularity and death of it, because as you said, in the ''Juno Saga'', the general story of AC is not leading anywhere.

What does Juno wants and how its going to achieve it? Is she completely Evil?
Who is going to stop her?
Is the templar and assassin war just stay in an endless hiatus as it is today?
What happens with the already stablished characters?

We may never know...
True, and I was mainly just referring to the lack of cohesion between these games in the historical eras now.

MD is crawling now- it might... emphasis on might... be moving forward now, but its at such a slow pace compared to its already slow pace during the Desmond saga.
There is at least hope to make it salvageable, though. Perhaps Unity was just a smaller link in the MD chain, and Juno might start making moves this year. Historically, though, Unity doesn't seem like it's going to be a link in the chain at all- I bet one could go straight from ACBF to Syndicate without batting an eye.

Ignacio_796
10-05-2015, 03:48 PM
True, and I was mainly just referring to the lack of cohesion between these games in the historical eras now.

MD is crawling now- it might... emphasis on might... be moving forward now, but its at such a slow pace compared to its already slow pace during the Desmond saga.
There is at least hope to make it salvageable, though. Perhaps Unity was just a smaller link in the MD chain, and Juno might start making moves this year. Historically, though, Unity doesn't seem like it's going to be a link in the chain at all- I bet one could go straight from ACBF to Syndicate without batting an eye.

Its ironic, considering that Unity was the new beginning and AC4 was a transition between AC3 and Unity, yet AC4 MD ,althought being improvable, was more engaging than Unity's one.
It was said that Syndi's MD will be better, but at the same time they said they'll follow the formula of Unity's MD, i don't know how they are going to do it... we'll have to wait and see...

cawatrooper9
10-05-2015, 03:50 PM
Its ironic, considering that Unity was the new beginning and AC4 was a transition between AC3 and Unity, yet AC4 MD ,althought being improvable, was more engaging than Unity's one.
It was said that Syndi's MD will be better, but at the same time they said they'll follow the formula of Unity's MD, i don't know how they are going to do it... we'll see...

Well, even with the same formula it won't hard to be "better", as long as there actually is some semblance of a MD story, rather than a simple "Look for this person in history, okay we'll never find him anyway, good job" facade. Whether or not it's actually "good" is another thing entirely.

D.I.D.
10-05-2015, 04:24 PM
Maybe because that friend didn't played the first ACs, is not tired of the franchise and he does not know what AC was at the beginning. That is the key here, what AC was, why i like it in first place, why it was popular in the first place... and what is now, if its better or worse...

That's certainly a factor, but a secondary argument I was trying to make is: how good were those stories, really? They asked intriguing questions that made us hungry to hear more, but the answers we got we often disappointing to me, even early on.

The end of AC1 was fantastic and ripe with possibility: who were these members of the old civilisation, and are they really gone? The world outside the window: millions are dead, and there's an army of assassins and templars outside fighting a noisy machine-gun battle? But then we saw the First Civ, and they were a preposterous sci-fi cliché, but we got a little tease about their images appearing throughout history, misinterpreted as the gods of various eras. Who else has seen them, and what were they told? Did TWCB lie to them, or are they lying to us now? That was a nice idea, which was never used. We were so intrigued by S16, and we were encouraged to feel so much sympathy for him. His unique position as a human consciousness enduring thousands, maybe millions, of lifetimes, unable to die, maddened by experience. But that character was totally wasted: just an ordinary, typical, surly bro.

A vast amount of early AC's power was in promises, not delivery. You can't do that for long before people figure out that they're just being strung along. Cliffhangers have no power if they come in every episode. The later releases have this enormous problem of having to pay up for the cheques written by AC1, AC2, ACB and ACR.

I think AC1, AC2 and ACB are very well-rounded as game stories because you can feel them forming into chunks like fictional literature. AC1 feels very much like each assassination is a chapter in a story, AC2 has very distinct "acts" like a play where we move to new cities to mark a fresh stage in Ezio's life, and ACB has a miraculous structure whereby the player can attack the missions in any order and rarely feel as though he/she is wasting the Order's time. I think ACIV did this pretty well, partly by conceding that Edward was wasting time and making him pay a price for it. If Syndicate achieves a decent story structure, then this perceived waning of story quality is really only a couple of blips.



A narrative purpose or leading to a conclusion. AC1 and 2 were leading to something, to the end of a story. But nowadays we have ACs like Fifas or Madden. You can argue that this loss is important or not, but you have to acknowledge that this franchise is not going anywhere in terms of narrative, because it doesn't want to go anywhere.

Yes, I agree 100%. I've always said that AC needed to introduce a structure used in long-running comics, where pieces of story are like bricks in a wall; some story threads conclude while others are in the middle of theirs.

I can sympathise with the people leading the series now, though. The early games did not establish that kind of structure, and ACIII forced the series to turn a corner. Now, everything in the modern day had to be about Juno versus humanity. With a story that blunt, you have little option but to give it out in extremely small portions. I think the idea of sages was a pretty smart new development, though.


Maybe you're confusing what i said earlier, what i said is that the mechanichs are created in line with the historical recreation with some practical concessions, yes, you're going to see gliders and tanks, but the design of those makes sense with the renaissance, they're exploiting the oportunity that the Leonardo's scheme give them. But then you have Evie's charmeleon skill, and i have see around here the common complain that it doesn't make mix very well with the context nor with what AC is. I mean, is not game-breaking, but it shows how important the setting and historical recreation is in AC (somebody remembers the Unity's Brithish accent controversy?), if it doesn't look good or blends into the context, people (an unespecified but notorious percentage) are not going to like

I wasn't really directing that at anybody in particular or anyone in this thread. I was making a general point from years of seeing the same people talk, and sometimes you do remember: "Hang on... didn't you say a while ago...?", and what they're saying now is in direct opposition to their own words in the past. I'm sure I've done that too, and I'm less aware of it because it's cute when I do it :P


You can say that this franchise is not for me anymore, because the story and the MD and all the elements that are missing are no there. But then we can agree that this franchise has changed and that a fan from the first games has more ways to see the flaws. Some people says tha the change is for good and appreciate the scale and gameplay of the games, and others (myself included) says that this franchise sucks right now. I cannot evaluate AC2 the same as Unity because AC2 was in 2009 and Unity was released in 2014 after 6 AC games, and even then im pretty sure that AC2 had a more compelling story and charm than Unity IMO.

I wouldn't say that, but I do think we have to see the Corey May years as an era of its own and allow a new era to emerge. ACIV, Freedom Cry and Rogue are like a little trilogy of their own. Unity is a transitional game, which we thought would have great power in the story because of the French Revolution, but it confusingly side-stepped the Revolution to tell a flimsy love story instead. I think we can already see that in terms of story and characters Syndicate looks like a much more solid prospect than Unity. I expect Syndicate to feel like Game One in a new era when we look back in a few years' time, and I hope we'll feel just as positive about the coming era as we did about the first one.

Ignacio_796
10-05-2015, 04:38 PM
That's certainly a factor, but a secondary argument I was trying to make is: how good were those stories, really? They asked intriguing questions that made us hungry to hear more, but the answers we got we often disappointing to me, even early on.

The end of AC1 was fantastic and ripe with possibility: who were these members of the old civilisation, and are they really gone? The world outside the window: millions are dead, and there's an army of assassins and templars outside fighting a noisy machine-gun battle? But then we saw the First Civ, and they were a preposterous sci-fi cliché, but we got a little tease about their images appearing throughout history, misinterpreted as the gods of various eras. Who else has seen them, and what were they told? Did TWCB lie to them, or are they lying to us now? That was a nice idea, which was never used. We were so intrigued by S16, and we were encouraged to feel so much sympathy for him. His unique position as a human consciousness enduring thousands, maybe millions, of lifetimes, unable to die, maddened by experience. But that character was totally wasted: just an ordinary, typical, surly bro.

A vast amount of early AC's power was in promises, not delivery. You can't do that for long before people figure out that they're just being strung along. Cliffhangers have no power if they come in every episode. The later releases have this enormous problem of having to pay up for the cheques written by AC1, AC2, ACB and ACR.

I think AC1, AC2 and ACB are very well-rounded as game stories because you can feel them forming into chunks like fictional literature. AC1 feels very much like each assassination is a chapter in a story, AC2 has very distinct "acts" like a play where we move to new cities to mark a fresh stage in Ezio's life, and ACB has a miraculous structure whereby the player can attack the missions in any order and rarely feel as though he/she is wasting the Order's time. I think ACIV did this pretty well, partly by conceding that Edward was wasting time and making him pay a price for it. If Syndicate achieves a decent story structure, then this perceived waning of story quality is really only a couple of blips.




Yes, I agree 100%. I've always said that AC needed to introduce a structure used in long-running comics, where pieces of story are like bricks in a wall; some story threads conclude while others are in the middle of theirs.

I can sympathise with the people leading the series now, though. The early games did not establish that kind of structure, and ACIII forced the series to turn a corner. Now, everything in the modern day had to be about Juno versus humanity. With a story that blunt, you have little option but to give it out in extremely small portions. I think the idea of sages was a pretty smart new development, though.



I wasn't really directing that at anybody in particular or anyone in this thread. I was making a general point from years of seeing the same people talk, and sometimes you do remember: "Hang on... didn't you say a while ago...?", and what they're saying now is in direct opposition to their own words in the past. I'm sure I've done that too, and I'm less aware of it because it's cute when I do it :P



I wouldn't say that, but I do think we have to see the Corey May years as an era of its own and allow a new era to emerge. ACIV, Freedom Cry and Rogue are like a little trilogy of their own. Unity is a transitional game, which we thought would have great power in the story because of the French Revolution, but it confusingly side-stepped the Revolution to tell a flimsy love story instead. I think we can already see that in terms of story and characters Syndicate looks like a much more solid prospect than Unity. I expect Syndicate to feel like Game One in a new era when we look back in a few years' time, and I hope we'll feel just as positive about the coming era as we did about the first one.

Maybe one of the reasons why the franchise has being a let down in terms of MD is because of that, the promises and expectations that we had back then. AC1 and 2 set a lot of stuff for further development, a development that at the end failed to deliver. I think that's why playing AC2 and Bro feels so good and frustrating at the same time, because every plot elements that you felt so intrigued about turned at the end to be poorly executed (S16 in Reve, Desmond and the MD in AC3...) or completely forgotten (Ezio returning to the villa when he was old or the cryptic messages of S16 in The Truth of Brotherhood. Wathever the case, i agree with your point.

And about the new era that Syndi is going to introduce, well... im skeptical about if its going to be good or even if at this point i'll be able to enjoy it. Either way, we'll have to see... to see if Syndicate introduce new plots that expands the AC universe, take advantage of the already existing characters and unfinished stories, or nothing at all...

strigoi1958
10-06-2015, 12:10 AM
I've always said that AC needed to introduce a structure where pieces of story are like bricks in a wall; some story threads conclude while others are in the middle of theirs.

I could accept MD and even that 1st CIv stuff if it was part of the game (a bit like AC3) where we have artifacts that we hunt in the memories then collect in the MD (not Battery Cells) but items that can be combined over 1 or more memories or even games... (perhaps find 6 artifacts and when connected they do something or form a part of a bigger machine that is built by collecting more in future games... even collectibles could be clues or minor pieces)
What doesn't interest me from the previous games is the storyline outside of the main protagonist... they are immersion breaking from the enjoyment of playing the game... just like an advert (commercial) in a film. Film goers do not want breaks... neither do game players.
In AC4 I was sailing around with waves washing across the deck, deciding to attack ships, avoid storms, dive for treasure, whaling or take over a fort... then I'm in an office playing frogger on a pc ???

If the MD was part of the game.. not just story line... it would probably have a greater demand. But all the kill lucy, desmond suicide to save the world parts for "shock value" got old fast and rightly put to bed.


@Ignacio... You are discussing art... I'm pointing out that regardless of what you think.... video games are sold as video games. If you got anything else out of them great... if you no longer get that out of them, that is just too bad.

But pouring hatred over all aspects of the game that doesn't include the missing parts you liked is childish and what we call "sour grapes"

killzab
10-06-2015, 08:23 AM
Honestly, I've never seen a franchise spit so much in the face of their long time fans.

I honestly can't see how any fan who's been there from the first game can be satisfied with the way the franchise is going now and its sorry state.

The series has become a laughing stock among core gamers.

I'm over being angry now, that time happened around ACIV's release when I was absolutely furious.

But I'll keep playing the future games, with a little disdain and not expecting anything great, just to be there until the end of a series that used to matter a lot to me. And being conscious of this hurts a lot ...

Ignacio_796
10-06-2015, 09:07 AM
@Ignacio... You are discussing art... I'm pointing out that regardless of what you think.... video games are sold as video games. If you got anything else out of them great... if you no longer get that out of them, that is just too bad.

But pouring hatred over all aspects of the game that doesn't include the missing parts you liked is childish and what we call "sour grapes"

No, You and me are disscussing if games are art, I said yes you said no. I explained why i think games are art, now you have to do it in order to conclude this discussion.
Videogames sold as videogames does not exclude them for being art, as videogames themselves are art (videogames are sold as videogames, and videogames are art). Saying that would mean that films are not art cause films are sold as films.

Is not called hatred, is called criticism, and its good for gaming in general.. Do you think that we should ignore all this flaws that exist almost in every aspect of the game, and just say that AC is perfect even when clearly and objectively is not?

strigoi1958
10-06-2015, 11:42 AM
@Ignacio I understand you desperately want to turn this gaming thread on a gaming forum into an art discussion that you think you can win but.

1. YOU are the only person going on about ART or do you want me to post the definition of a game again ? (go to an art forum and discuss video games there)

2. READ my posts and don't keep inventing things you think I saidGames are about fun.. If they are art that is a bonus... if you buy a game because you think it should be art then you are already setting a standard that the game shouldn't have to meet. ... please disprove that...show me how many people go into a video game shop looking to buy art and how many are going in to buy fun (you can use an art argument if you like ;) )

3.It is hatred... you said everything about the games were bad (just because it doesn't meet your ideals) I'll remind YOU of what YOU said...

Repetitive, button smashing easy combat with sometimes broken mechanics (Unitys sharpshooters), upgrades that sometimes are well done and others are just more about time walls than to customize your experience, enjoyable sea shanties (i'll give you that) automatic and non-challenging, unvariable parkour system, overpower bombs and tools, (freerunning is the same as parkour), tanks? is that really a characteristic AC thing (also just in Bro), enjoyable parachutes (just in Bro and Reve), gliders? (just in 2 and Bro for a mission), wagons? i mean they are present but... is that really something FUN in the AC games to this day?; sometimes decent , most of the time horrible horse riding, missions that can be great or can be awful, horrible collectibles that should burn in hell cause they dont add ANYTHING to the game but to make you gather useless crap, improvable or downright rudimentary stealth (especially in the first games), repetitive viewpoint, challenges? (well if you are refering to the guild challenges then okay), and a sense of repetition and horrid frustration to see that you still have to complete a map full of souless content...

THAT is hatred. There are many games I buy and don't like, it doesn't make them a bad game... they are just not to my liking... but I'm not sad enough to hang around their forums whining desperately trying to stir up unrest. The moment you posted that you showed you are just another EX AC FAN. Bitter that others still enjoy the games.

As you like art I did some for you....
http://s1.postimg.org/qnk7hcee7/ACgrapes.jpg

Ignacio_796
10-06-2015, 12:17 PM
@Ignacio I understand you desperately want to turn this gaming thread on a gaming forum into an art discussion that you think you can win but.

1. YOU are the only person going on about ART or do you want me to post the definition of a game again ? (go to an art forum and discuss video games there)

To be fair, that's not true, you started the whole thing in your first reply:


Games are about fun.. If they are art that is a bonus... if you buy a game because you think it should be art then you are already setting a standard that the game shouldn't have to meet.

Also I hate it when someone says Ubisoft are being greedy...or any remark that is trying to rally support just because they are unhappy... do you think they were greedy when they made games you liked ? NO... when you get what YOU want they are wonderful but because you're not getting something your way you resort to petty mudslinging... it pretty much undermines anything you might say.

When I want to play AC1,2,ACB,ACR,3,4 or any of the previous games I can.... they're in my library,I liked many things from them and I'm happy if they get a recall in a new game, but, if I get nostalgic I replay ACR, ACIV and AC3 so I'm glad Syndicate is not a clone of any of the previous games (and definitely not AC2 with those impossible tombs ) .

I think some people might benefit from having a year off without an AC game so it sharpens their appetite for the game. ( I hope nobody will roll out the "I'm bored so Ubisoft should stop AC for a year and deprive millions of people who want it just to suit me when I feel like playing AC again" remark)

I think personally the only thing you have stated of importance is "It just lost the sense of what it was supposed to be for ME." we must realise that the games are not just made specifically for you or I (which is just as well, because any game designed by either of us would probably flop) and move on... and continue to play the games you like, whether they are different games or just the AC that you prefer..

You said that art stuff are just an extra bonus. I think the most appropiate thing will be explaining why... So the question remains... why AC is not art. Answer please. If not this discussion may be over.



2. READ my posts and don't keep inventing things you think I said
Games are about fun.. If they are art that is a bonus... if you buy a game because you think it should be art then you are already setting a standard that the game shouldn't have to meet. ...
please disprove that...show me how many people go into a video game shop looking to buy art and how many are going in to buy fun (you can use an art argument if you like ;) )

I don't need to use an art argument. The only thing i need to question is why do you thing that ART is not a real thing in videogames. YOU make that assumption, YOU have to give an explanation of why. If you don't want to (or can't), then what are you even talking about?

- Games are not about art.
-Yeah? Why?
-Because games are not about art. So shut up...

or what i said before

-Games are not art, but im not going to say why, because we're talking about videogames, and videogames are not art.




3.It is hatred... you said everything about the games were bad (just because it doesn't meet your ideals) I'll remind YOU of what YOU said
Repetitive, button smashing easy combat with sometimes broken mechanics (Unitys sharpshooters), upgrades that sometimes are well done and others are just more about time walls than to customize your experience, enjoyable sea shanties (i'll give you that) automatic and non-challenging, unvariable parkour system, overpower bombs and tools, (freerunning is the same as parkour), tanks? is that really a characteristic AC thing (also just in Bro), enjoyable parachutes (just in Bro and Reve), gliders? (just in 2 and Bro for a mission), wagons? i mean they are present but... is that really something FUN in the AC games to this day?; sometimes decent , most of the time horrible horse riding, missions that can be great or can be awful, horrible collectibles that should burn in hell cause they dont add ANYTHING to the game but to make you gather useless crap, improvable or downright rudimentary stealth (especially in the first games), repetitive viewpoint, challenges? (well if you are refering to the guild challenges then okay), and a sense of repetition and horrid frustration to see that you still have to complete a map full of souless content...


THAT is hatred. There are many games I buy and don't like, it doesn't make them a bad game... they are just not to my liking... but I'm not sad enough to hang around their forums whining desperately trying to stir up unrest. The moment you posted that you showed you are just another EX AC FAN. Bitter that others still enjoy the games.

Interesting thing you're saying here. So every single stuff that i mention does not have any validity because, for some reason, it does not count as criticisism. You seem to love putting words in the mouth of others. I didn't say that this games are horrible. I didn't mention the historical recreation, the initial pretention of Unity to be a good story, the visual design, things that i enjoyed (funny seen how this things are artistic stuff). But noooooooo.... my opinion does not count and im a hater because i just mention stuff that i didn't like, even....when my point is to show how this franchise has declined.... So i'm being unfair or something if i don't mention everything? Shalll i do a FULL REVIEW of these games every time before talking about them so my opinion counts as criticism?

Of course not. Because the problem is not mine....

It's yours.

You seem that you cannot stand criticism against Ubi because its not fair for some unknown reason...
While i have accepted during the whole thread that i understand that there's people who still enjoys this games, you don't seem to accept any kind of negative comments against UBI.

THAT... is not fair in any way possible.

So yeah, another question that you have to answer (plus the other ones). Why my comments are haterism and not criticism? (even when the flaws i mentioned are real).

strigoi1958
10-06-2015, 02:11 PM
You need to learn English...

FIND THEN COPY AND PASTE ... where I say games are not art.

I said Games are about fun.. If they are art that is a bonus... if you buy a game because you think it should be art then you are already setting a standard that the game shouldn't have to meet.
If your English interprets it any other way that is down to you. It does not say GAMES ARE NOT ART so you are making up a point to argue.

YOU ARE AN EX AC FAN WITH A CASE OF SOUR GRAPES :D you come to whine and I don't care... AC games are fun they have evolved and grown and some people have been left behind BYE.

Attacking Ubisoft ? showing your true colours now .... did nasty Ubisoft stop making the games how you like ? oh the drama, oh the melacholy oh you poor thing let's all wipe away those tears and gather an army to force a global company to do what you want.

After your example... I can give you an example of SAD being funny....
It is sad you cannot enjoy how great AC games are because of your blinkered view, it is sad that you are no longer a part of the AC fans and are being replaced by the new fans, it is sad you have nowhere else to go but insist on coming here to pour scorn over something you cannot grasp and although I shouldn't find your pain funny, I do :D

And you've hurt my feelings... you didn't even mention the nice picture I did for you :rolleyes:

cawatrooper9
10-06-2015, 02:13 PM
Honestly, I've never seen a franchise spit so much in the face of their long time fans.


You must be unfamiliar with Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts

strigoi1958
10-06-2015, 02:47 PM
Honestly, I've never seen a franchise spit so much in the face of their long time fans.

I honestly can't see how any fan who's been there from the first game can be satisfied with the way the franchise is going now and its sorry state.

The series has become a laughing stock among core gamers.

I'm over being angry now, that time happened around ACIV's release when I was absolutely furious.

But I'll keep playing the future games, with a little disdain and not expecting anything great, just to be there until the end of a series that used to matter a lot to me. And being conscious of this hurts a lot ...

Nothing can keep changing, growing and moving on and still keep everyone from the beginning happy... people leave people join and some people continue in happiness while others stay but less happy... that is normal ... and if core gamers are a tiny percentage of the whole group.. what does it matter ?

Ignacio_796
10-06-2015, 03:01 PM
You need to learn English...

FIND THEN COPY AND PASTE ... where I say games are not art.

I said Games are about fun.. If they are art that is a bonus... if you buy a game because you think it should be art then you are already setting a standard that the game shouldn't have to meet.
If your English interprets it any other way that is down to you. It does not say GAMES ARE NOT ART so you are making up a point to argue.

Is there a manual somewhere where it says so? You're going to justify that my good sir.
So games are not art, but being art is not the main priority and is the artistic value is just reduced to a bonus thing. So games that does not focus on being fun but inmersse you in a story or characters does not have place in the market?

But again, that does not debunk the point that i've trying to explain. AC is art, form the historical recreation, to story and gameplay. Being fun does not means that is not art, but as i said before, saying that games are mainly about FUN is delimiting the vision and potential of what games can be...

I've explained why i think AC as a piece of art overshadows its value as an entertainment without context. You didn't explained why the artistic value plaes in comparison to the free-roam, non contextual moments.


YOU ARE AN EX AC FAN WITH A CASE OF SOUR GRAPES :D you come to whine and I don't care... AC games are fun they have evolved and grown and some people have been left behind BYE

Oh! but you care, a lot it seems.


Attacking Ubisoft ? showing your true colours now .... did nasty Ubisoft stop making the games how you like ? oh the drama, oh the melacholy oh you poor thing let's all wipe away those tears and gather an army to force a global company to do what you want.

Attacking? are you sick or something? You have seem to have a particular liking to over exagerate stuff to your benefit. Is called CRITICISIM. Ubisoft is not a person you know, it is a company. Attacking Ubisoft will be something like this :**** YVES AND ALL THE DEVELOPERS!!!
I didn't said anything like that. And you know, Ubisoft sells products for your money, if the product does not fulfill my standars if have the right to criticising whenever i see fit.



After your example... I can give you an example of SAD being funny....
It is sad you cannot enjoy how great AC games are because of your blinkered view, it is sad that you are no longer a part of the AC fans and are being replaced by the new fans, it is sad you have nowhere else to go but insist on coming here to pour scorn over something you cannot grasp and although I shouldn't find your pain funny, I do :D

And you've hurt my feelings... you didn't even mention the nice picture I did for you :rolleyes:

What image? The one under each one of your posts? You know that the phrase was made by Leon Tolstoi, not you... right?

Kinda funny, don't know what is worst... search for perfection, or accept or qualify as perfect without questioning everything you buy.

U know if you care so little about my opinion or you just can't stand negative opinions about your favorite company, nobody forces you to read me.

cawatrooper9
10-06-2015, 03:11 PM
Art is in the eye of the beholder. Not sure this needs any further discussion.

strigoi1958
10-06-2015, 03:26 PM
@Ignacio BEFORE YOU TYPE ANOTHER WORD..... FIND THEN COPY AND PASTE ... where I say games are not art. I will happily justify anything I say... I do not need to justify anything you think I said...

Stop saying I said that and stop arguing against yourself... you are making yourself look more and more foolish....

If you read my posts.... you'd see the picture in the spoiler section :D

But please continue to whine I've had a hard day and it cheers me up :D

And regarding the quote in my signature... those are words I find helps put things in perspective but only for those who are wise enough to be enlightened by them. (also I expect there is something similar said by a philosophical Roman or Greek many years before Tolstoi.)

Perfection is what we choose it to be... not what you tell us it should be... if your lofty standards are above those of us that enjoy playing AC that is not my problem... that is yours.

Ignacio_796
10-06-2015, 08:16 PM
@Ignacio BEFORE YOU TYPE ANOTHER WORD..... FIND THEN COPY AND PASTE ... where I say games are not art. I will happily justify anything I say... I do not need to justify anything you think I said...

Oh so now you're making demands after having me half of the post asking you the same question!! For god sake.



But if you insist:


@Ignacio... show me the definition where art is included not just YOUR definition


game1
ɡeɪm/
noun
1.
a form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules.
synonyms: match, contest, tournament, meeting, sports meeting, meet, event, athletic event, fixture, tie, cup tie, test match, final, cup final, play-off; More
2.
an activity that one engages in for amusement.
"a computer game"
synonyms: pastime, diversion, entertainment, amusement, distraction, divertissement, recreation, sport, activity, leisure activity;

You give this definiton as what you think games are. You said that art does not appear in said definiton, hence art and games are not correlated.
In fact you give me this definition to prove that art does not appear in the definition of ''game''.

Also....


What I consider art is not important... this is a gaming forum

This means that you're not willing to talk about art in a gaming forum, since for you both terms does not have any correlation and art does not have any place in a forum like this.

Well at least one of us is responding questions...
Your turn, and remember the rules, don't say anything until you've explained why games must be about FUN and art is not as relevant, what is art for you and why AC's artistic value is not as important as its non-contextual FUN.


If you read my posts.... you'd see the picture in the spoiler section :D

Oh now i see it...
Well...Ok...
Thanks to put the time and effort to a person whose opinion and point of view you care so less about...
...



But please continue to whine I've had a hard day and it cheers me up :D

Whining? Yeah sure i whine a lot....

I'll leave this here.

Is from another post. Your response to someone who was just saying his opinion whithout disrespecting or insulting anyone, and is non of my bussines, but it just shows how mature you are compared to me:


Or rather than you suggesting EVERYONE else go without because YOU are a little tired... how about you just disappear for a year or 2 until you are as eager as the rest of us... I'm sick and tired of selfish whines... "I want the world to stop having fun because I'm bored"


And regarding the quote in my signature... those are words I find helps put things in perspective but only for those who are wise enough to be enlightened by them. (also I expect there is something similar said by a philosophical Roman or Greek many years before Tolstoi.)

Perfection is what we choose it to be... not what you tell us it should be... if your lofty standards are above those of us that enjoy playing AC that is not my problem... that is yours.

Never said that AC should be perfect (as it never was), just saying that i don't think is as good as before for the flaws i mentioned before. Never said that others can't to enjoy the franchise. Sure its difficult for you to understand that as it seems...

The problem i was mentioning is your lack of capability of accepting negative criticism about something you like.

Ignacio_796
10-06-2015, 08:27 PM
Art is in the eye of the beholder. Not sure this needs any further discussion.

Agree...
I said since the beginning why i consider games as art, and i ask him to do the exact same thing about his point of view. I think is fair, considering that he has been invalidating my opinions and undervaluating my point of view as ''haterism''.
I understand and accept why some poeple don't see games as art, everything is subjective yeah but even then, i think they are and i explained why i think AC has more artistical value that the non-contextual FUN that you can get from these games. This is my point of view of course.

strigoi1958
10-06-2015, 08:55 PM
@Ignacio BEFORE YOU TYPE ANOTHER WORD..... FIND THEN COPY AND PASTE ... where I say games are not art. I will happily justify anything I say... I do not need to justify anything you think I said...

The reason you keep deliberately bypassing this is because at no time have I said games are not art... and you've been saying non stop that I have... prove me wrong just go back and instead of constantly accusing me of saying this.... copy and paste it here.

That is not my definition ... that is the dictionary definition ... you could argue with them that they are wrong ;) I did say art doesn't appear in that definition.. my eyes are bad can you highlight the word art for me ? ;)
hence art and games are not correlated. If that is what you assume from that... that's up to you.... if you want to draw conclusions then assume I said them then you are still making up things and thinking I said them....

This means that you're not willing to talk about art in a gaming forum, since for you both terms does not have any correlation you are still jumping to conclusions assuming you know what I'm thinking... by the way can you guess what I'm thinking now ?

I really don't have time for your pretentiousness but this is gold... thank you... you make assumptions draw your own conclusions, decide that I am thinking something and then argue the point... it's brilliant... maybe I should let you 2 argue amongst yourselves and join in later. ;)

from another post your response to someone who was just saying his opinion without disrespecting or insulting anyone, and is non of my bussines, but it just shows how mature you are compared to me:


Thanks for reminding me... his opinion was, because he doesn't like AC everyone should not have it until he wants it again... so you are saying it is mature if 1 person wants millions to stop doing something because that one person is bored. When common sense (or maturity) dictates that as only 1 is bored then only 1 should stop...
what if he gets bored of life... should everyone else have to die ? Is it mature to ask that... please give me your artistic interpretation ;)

To make it easier for you to understand... supposing he said he was bored of ART and that ART should be banned for a few years until he thinks it would be interesting enough PLEASE tell me you think he is the mature one... PLEASE tell me you wouldn't tell him to go away from ART for 2 years rather than suggest everyone should give up ART. PLEASE tell me he wouldn't be disrespecting you and ART lovers by thinking you should do what he wants.

AC IS perfect to me it is just not perfect to you, that is not difficult to understand........ I just don't know why you're here if you don't like the game any more... That IS difficult to understand :confused:

And I have no problem with constructive criticism but I feel the need to show some parity. People think they can complain and look for little things to belittle AC and think everyone agrees with them, I like to show that, there are people who love AC and as Syndicate will sell xx millions this year I'm not alone.

You're entitled to your view as am I. We both got something from AC and you feel it is gone and feel you need to complain rather than do something more constructive with your time.

Ignacio_796
10-06-2015, 09:22 PM
@Ignacio BEFORE YOU TYPE ANOTHER WORD..... FIND THEN COPY AND PASTE ... where I say games are not art. I will happily justify anything I say... I do not need to justify anything you think I said...

]The reason you keep deliberately bypassing this is because at no time have I said games are not art... and you've been saying non stop that I have... prove me wrong just go back and instead of constantly accusing me of saying this.... copy and paste it here.

That is not my definition ... that is the dictionary definition ... you could argue with them that they are wrong ;) I did say art doesn't appear in that definition.. my eyes are bad can you highlight the word art for me ? ;) [/QUOTE]


Yes that is the definition of the dictionary, but as you put that here, one will think that you agree with that definition, and yourself said that art is not included as you used it to prove your point.


hence art and games are not correlated. If that is what you assume from that... that's up to you.... if you want to draw conclusions then assume I said them then you are still making up things and thinking I said them....

This means that you're not willing to talk about art in a gaming forum, since for you both terms does not have any correlation you are still jumping to conclusions assuming you know what I'm think... by the way can you guess what I'm thinking now ?

Those conclusion where drawn from your comments. If you don't want to talk about art because this is a gaming forum, its because you don't see any place in this gaming forum for art, hence my conclution. If its wrong you can correct me whenever you see fit, but don't blame me because you didn't explained yourself in a good way.

But even then, even if what you're saying is true, and iyou didn't said that, its still undebatable that YOU think that the artistic value (as you said in you'r comments), is not as important in AC. As you said that my opinion is wrong or it cannot be applied to a general or objective level, please answer WHY!!! Why non-contextual gameplay overshadows its artistic value. You said that you would answer if i answer first...


I really don't have time for your pretentiousness but this is gold... thank you... you make assumptions draw your own conclusions, decide that I am thinking something and then argue the point... it's brilliant... maybe I should let you 2 argue amongst yourselves and join in later. ;)

Doubt that you don't have time for this.
Answer plis...


from another post your response to someone who was just saying his opinion without disrespecting or insulting anyone, and is non of my bussines, but it just shows how mature you are compared to me:


Thanks for reminding me... his opinion was, because he doesn't like AC everyone should not have it until he wants it again... so you are saying it is mature if 1 person wants millions to stop doing something because that one person is bored. When common sense (or maturity) dictates that as only 1 is bored then 1 should stop...
what if he gets bored of life... should everyone else have to die ? Is it mature to ask that... please give me your artistic interpretation ;)
But I'm glad you're clutching at straws.

Comment from the guy you replied to:

So now Ubisoft are releasing Far Cry games annually? Man I love pre historic but I am a bit tired of Far Cry, just like I am getting with Assassins Creed. Ubisoft need to slow down with its existing franchises.

I must be blind as i don't see him forcing others into his opinion as you said. I just see a a comment with no signs of haterism nor giving orders to UBI, just showing his opinion in a respectful way.What i see in your response is a very hostile and negative behaviour about his opinion (I'm sick and tired of selfish whines... blah blah blah). Maybe its my fault as obviously ITS ME and not others who like to draw incorrect conclussion and insult others about their opinions.


AC IS perfect to me it is just not perfect to you, that is not difficult to understand........ I just don't know why you're here if you don't like the game any more... That IS difficult to understand :confused:

And I have no problem with constructive criticism but I feel the need to show some parity. People think they can complain and look for little things to belittle AC and think everyone agrees with them, I like to show that, there are people who love AC and as Syndicate will sell xx millions this year I'm not alone.

I write here because i want my opinion to be heared and i liked to form part of a communtiy with which i can share my opinion. I liked this franchise and i've played enough to feel freely to talk about it. Don't see why that is so difficult to understand. Never i had the purpose to hurt anybody (my first post was also written in a very respectful way), but it seems that there is some people like you that no matter what you do, they are going to feel attacked by any kind of criticism.


You're entitled to your view as am I.

You have yet to justify your point of view, its fair considering how you've been devaluating my opinion calling it biased or pure hate.

strigoi1958
10-06-2015, 09:47 PM
YOUR conclusions... not mine... I cannot be held responsible for what you think... If I say Black is not White and you conclude I'm saying it must be red... I do not need to justify why it is not red.

Not though it is relevant but If you must know I have posted several threads and lots of pictures on the visual beauty of AC... I have described the moments that I just had to stop and admire the detail, the attention to sound, the way the buildings resemble the real ones, acknowledge just how much craft and skill goes into making a game like AC, not just the mechanics and the gameplay, missions and all the extras.. so that is why I am happy to state why I love AC when others tell me why I shouldn't.

The guy said FARCRY comes out anually they don't... as the other poster corrected him it is every 2 years and he also said Ubisoft needs to slow down its existing releases... WHY because HE is tired... Does he have the right to complain the games come out too quick for him ? Yes... do I have the right to say I'm tired of hearing people say that ? Yes. Does it make sense for everyone to wait longer because he is tired ? NO

You are entitled to write here and I welcome it... the more the merrier.... maybe your English misinterpreted my first post and you've been arguing a mistake ever since.

Ignacio_796
10-06-2015, 10:24 PM
YOUR conclusions... not mine... I cannot be held responsible for what you think... If I say Black is not White and you conclude it must be red... I do not need to justify why it is not red.

You're ressponsible if you didn't explain yourself in a good way. If you give a definiton that you agree with to show how art is not included in what games are suposed to be, then my conclution is not wrong.
The questions persist, answer them, you promised....


Not though it is relevant but If you must know I have posted several threads and lots of pictures on the visual beauty of AC... I have described the moments that I just had to stop and admire the detail, the attention to sound, the way the buildings resemble the real ones, acknowledge just how much craft and skill goes into making a game like AC, not just the mechanics and the gameplay, missions and all the extras.. so that is why I am happy to state why I love AC when others tell me why I shouldn't.

Unrelated.
You said that artistic value are just extra stuff. The fact that you enjoy the ''artistic assets''of the games does not change the fact that you show your dissaproval to my opinion of art being the most important factor in the success of AC, and that gameplay is what takes the cake compared to story, characters, arquitecture, historical recreation...etc
Also as i said before, every mechanic is there for the purpose of character, historical, and contextual recreation, so we can say that even the mechanics in this games are ''art stuff''.
You keep saying that no, that the success of these games comes just from the actions that you can take in gameplay in a non-contextual way. But even then is still art, as you transverse monuments, see the city for yourself, or see the traits and oportunities that the character brings you as you were the MAIN ACTOR of this ''simulation''.

Saying that AC exist because non-contextual FUN and saying that if we Leave out all the artistic stuff (arquitecture, character, visual design story...) but leaving all the gameplay elements, would mean that this:
https://youtu.be/zoEqI97-HaU?t=285 (4:45)
It's worth 60 bucks or that even has value as a good AC game....


The guy said FARCRY comes out anually they don't... as the other poster corrected him it is every 2 years and he also said Ubisoft needs to slow down its existing releases... WHY because HE is tired... Does he have the right to complain the games come out too quick for him ? Yes... do I have the right to say I'm tired of hearing people say that ? Yes. Does it make sense for everyone to wait longer because he is tired ? NO

Did he say it in a disrespectful way so you have to insult him or feel ofended? NO
Did he said in a explicit way that his opinion its the only one valuable? NO. Just because he didn't put IMO at the end of the phrase does not mean he is saying that he's the only one that holds the correct argument.
Did he said that UBI must, yes or yes, to delay the releases of the games in a absolute way instead in the form of advice and personal opinion? NO
Does you have the right to complaint about every people that criticise the franchise because you're tired? Yes, but first, if you're tired the best thing you can do is ignore them. Second, this validates the point of you not accepting criticism against Ubi and you feel hurt when someone says something bad.
That opinion is very common nowadays, so if you will have the need to fight against every one who says something bad about AC or UBI...oooh sir, you're gonna have a bad time in the internet.


You are entitled to write here and I welcome it... the more the merrier.... maybe your English misinterpreted my first post and you've been arguing a mistake ever since.

Thanks you to feel so concerned about my linguistic education, but my comprehension of the English lenguage is not the reason for misunderstanding here. If you didn't say that games are not art, that you don't think that AC is not succesful because its artistic value rather than the non contextual fun, please enlight me ,what were you talking about in the first place?

strigoi1958
10-06-2015, 11:08 PM
NO... If I make a statement I do not have to explain every other possibility or conclusions that you interpret from it. I'm not responsible for what you or anyone else thinks. If I say I do not like honey and you assume I hate bees I do not have to tell you I do like bees just because you assume it follows that anyone who doesn't like honey hates bees.

You keep trying to be intelligent and keep posting ridiculous false statements and say I said it... as I've said before COPY AND PASTE to prove you are not lying.

I make a statement... you decide it is not long enough so you assume (wrongly) that it means something I didn't say but think that is what I would say.... and then you ask me to defend the response that you have made up in your head.... I cannot do that ... because I don't know what the conversation is in your head.

I said IF ... IF... and I will repeat once more so there can be no confusion (to a rational person) IF they are art it is a bonus.. NOT THEY ARE NOT ART. If you do not understand the difference then you misinterpreted it, if you do understand the importance of IF then you are ignoring what I said and imagining a statement you want to argue.

I suggest you continue this in your head... and let me know what you both decide :D

Locopells
10-07-2015, 12:07 AM
Guys, break it up, will ya? You're giving me a headache here...

ACZanius
10-07-2015, 12:18 AM
Been following the melodrama since beginning in this thread lmao

All i can say you strigoi lad are one strong Ubisoft d*ck rider and a true dedicated fanboy who ballwashes everything and is too buthurt to see the fact that franchise is not what it used to be, it's just good, decent now, AC used to be fantastic, great, amazing, epic proportions.


Enjoy playing your "good" subpar game every year, i'm on perma break on AC this is just too much for me to handle and be part of the problem aka dedicated fanboy who will scream like a little girl and buy the same game every year, it's 2015 and the talk has gone beyond "oh ac is soooo baaad" it's actually gone for the worst on many fronts. I was mega fan of franchise and hardcore one but never a delusional fanboy, AC was my greatest franchise of all time, WAS....

Locopells
10-07-2015, 12:27 AM
OK, enough. Name-calling isn't gonna help anything.

ACZanius
10-07-2015, 12:31 AM
OK, enough. Name-calling isn't gonna help anything.

Noted, after reading so many posts i had to respond and come on front lines ;)

strigoi1958
10-07-2015, 12:37 AM
Your opinion is only valid for you AC is still the same amazing game for me. Maybe because I came in at AC3 and went back... If it is still great for me and not you.... I'm hardly the one who is hurting :D

Ignacio_796
10-07-2015, 12:41 AM
You know what :enough is enough.
Oh i have plenty of time to go on and keep playing the game of who gets tired the fast. But im just gonna do this:

Did you said that art is a bonus stuff in AC?


-Games are about fun.. If they are art that is a bonus... if you buy a game because you think it should be art then you are already setting a standard that the game shouldn't have to meet.

Also I hate it when someone says Ubisoft are being greedy...or any remark that is trying to rally support just because they are unhappy... do you think they were greedy when they made games you liked ? NO... when you get what YOU want they are wonderful but because you're not getting something your way you resort to petty mudslinging... it pretty much undermines anything you might say.

When I want to play AC1,2,ACB,ACR,3,4 or any of the previous games I can.... they're in my library,I liked many things from them and I'm happy if they get a recall in a new game, but, if I get nostalgic I replay ACR, ACIV and AC3 so I'm glad Syndicate is not a clone of any of the previous games (and definitely not AC2 with those impossible tombs ) .

I think some people might benefit from having a year off without an AC game so it sharpens their appetite for the game. ( I hope nobody will roll out the "I'm bored so Ubisoft should stop AC for a year and deprive millions of people who want it just to suit me when I feel like playing AC again" remark)

I think personally the only thing you have stated of importance is "It just lost the sense of what it was supposed to be for ME." we must realise that the games are not just made specifically for you or I (which is just as well, because any game designed by either of us would probably flop) and move on... and continue to play the games you like, whether they are different games or just the AC that you prefer..

-@ignacio I'm going to make this simple...

The button mashing stuff as you call it or the list of all the engaging things I wrote are A GAME... you are waffling about art ... take out all the things you like and it remains a GAME ....you hate AC for being a game LOL ....

Just because you think the game should be taken away and replaced by a story don't think you speak for everyone because some people have a similar idea... i

So to be clear I don't care that you don't like AC because it is a game I like AC because it's fun...

Don't let the door hit you on the way out

Yes...
Did i show you how that assumption is wrong telling you how would be a game with no artistical pretentions?


-Saying that AC exist because non-contextual FUN and saying that if we Leave out all the artistic stuff (arquitecture, character, visual design story...) but leaving all the gameplay elements, would mean that this:
https://youtu.be/zoEqI97-HaU?t=285 (4:45)
It's worth 60 bucks or that even has value as a good AC game....

Checked....

Did you give me a definition of what games are suposed to be for you, where art is not showned with the purpose of saying that games are not art OR are not suppose to be art but should be focused to be FUN?


-you didn't answer... did you think Ubisoft was a bad company when they made games you liked ? No ... but now you are sulking and want sympathy so making them out to be the nasty people and you the poor victim.. is petty

and to use your analogy correctly ... because YOU don't like pizza any more you want everyone else to not like pizza even if we like cold pizza

@Ignacio... show me the definition where art is included not just YOUR definition


game1
ɡeɪm/
noun
1.
a form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules.
synonyms: match, contest, tournament, meeting, sports meeting, meet, event, athletic event, fixture, tie, cup tie, test match, final, cup final, play-off; More
2.
an activity that one engages in for amusement.
"a computer game"
synonyms: pastime, diversion, entertainment, amusement, distraction, divertissement, recreation, sport, activity, leisure activity;





AC is fun... it just isn't fun for you king-hailz so go... bye missing you already

Yes...
Did i show you that SAYING that would mean that sad, depressing experiences that are not focused towards fun experiences are very well reviewed and stands as the best games of recent years?


-But for the fourth time, saying that games are just and only suppose to be fun means that This War of Mine, Walking Dead, Heavy Rain, Banner Saga...etc does not have any place in the market, which is of course incorrect. It also means that the moments i told you before does not have the same value as to killing that nameless guy in the roof for the 100 time, which again i don't think that is true.

Checked

Did you said that the main core of AC is history, proving my point in the process and contradicting yourself in the same phrase?


-AC is a video game with emphasis on history and not a history or art video with emphasis on gaming...

Yes
Did i went further in the matter to explain how this games are not made with FUN in the center and also how mechanichs works for in AC to create not just a game but art?


-You said it, emphasis on story (or history), every single element is there to fullfill the artistic purpose of historic and context recreation so the story makes sense. If AC was just a piece of Fun stuff why not allow me to play with machine guns in Middle Ages or the ability to fly? That is fun, but it would break the historical recreation and you wouldn't take the story seriously... So yeah, AC is trying to be a piece of art since its conception. You have clunky sword fighting instead of the exagerated combat and extremely acrobatic parkour of Prince of Persia, because you are now controlling Altair a ''real guy'' in ''realistic world' (except for some concession like the Leap of faith which is there as practicall function):'

Checked

Did you over exagerate my arguments by saying that i hate UBI or AC with the purpose of invalidating my point?


-@Ignacio... You are discussing art... I'm pointing out that regardless of what you think.... video games are sold as video games. If you got anything else out of them great... if you no longer get that out of them, that is just too bad.

But pouring hatred over all aspects of the game that doesn't include the missing parts you liked is childish and what we call "sour grapes"


-3.It is hatred... you said everything about the games were bad (just because it doesn't meet your ideals) I'll remind YOU of what YOU said...

Yes.
Did i explain to you that this is called criticism amd that i'm capable on enjoy the ''good stuff'' and that i don't think that this games are horrible?


-Is not called hatred, is called criticism, and its good for gaming in general.. Do you think that we should ignore all this flaws that exist almost in every aspect of the game, and just say that AC is perfect even when clearly and objectively is not?
-Interesting thing you're saying here. So every single stuff that i mention does not have any validity because, for some reason, it does not count as criticisism. You seem to love putting words in the mouth of others. I didn't say that this games are horrible. I didn't mention the historical recreation, the initial pretention of Unity to be a good story, the visual design, things that i enjoyed (funny seen how this things are artistic stuff). But noooooooo.... my opinion does not count and im a hater because i just mention stuff that i didn't like, even....when my point is to show how this franchise has declined.... So i'm being unfair or something if i don't mention everything? Shalll i do a FULL REVIEW of these games every time before talking about them so my opinion counts as criticism?

Checked

Did you said that im missunderstanding your point of view?


NO... If I make a statement I do not have to explain every other possibility or conclusions that you interpret from it. I'm not responsible for what you or anyone else thinks. If I say I do not like honey and you assume I hate bees I do not have to tell you I do like bees just because you assume it follows that anyone who doesn't like honey hates bees.

You keep trying to be intelligent and keep posting ridiculous false statements and say I said it... as I've said before COPY AND PASTE to prove you are not lying.

I make a statement... you decide it is not long enough so you assume (wrongly) that it means something I didn't say but think that is what I would say.... and then you ask me to defend the response that you have made up in your head.... I cannot do that ... because I don't know what the conversation is in your head.

I said IF ... IF... and I will repeat once more so there can be no confusion (to a rational person) IF they are art it is a bonus.. NOT THEY ARE NOT ART. If you do not understand the difference then you misinterpreted it, if you do understand the importance of IF then you are ignoring what I said and imagining a statement you want to argue.

I suggest you continue this in your head... and let me know what you both decide

Yes.
Did i acknowledge during the post your points?


-You said that art stuff are just an extra bonus. I think the most appropiate thing will be explaining why... So the question remains... why AC is not art. Answer please. If not this discussion may be over.

-I don't need to use an art argument. The only thing i need to question is why do you thing that ART is not a real thing in videogames. YOU make that assumption, YOU have to give an explanation of why. If you don't want to (or can't), then what are you even talking about?

- Games are not about art.
-Yeah? Why?
-Because games are not about art. So shut up...

or what i said before


-Games are not art, but im not going to say why, because we're talking about videogames, and videogames are not art.

Checked.

Did you said several times that AC is perfect to you and its not the game's problem if i expect them to be perfect and that i'm trying to tell that you shouldn't enjoy the game?


-AC IS perfect to me it is just not perfect to you, that is not difficult to understand........ I just don't know why you're here if you don't like the game any more... That IS difficult to understand

-Not though it is relevant but If you must know I have posted several threads and lots of pictures on the visual beauty of AC... I have described the moments that I just had to stop and admire the detail, the attention to sound, the way the buildings resemble the real ones, acknowledge just how much craft and skill goes into making a game like AC, not just the mechanics and the gameplay, missions and all the extras.. so that is why I am happy to state why I love AC when others tell me why I shouldn't.


Did i said that i don't ask them to be perfect but that they'are not of my liking anymore?


--Never said that AC should be perfect (as it never was), just saying that i don't think is as good as before for the flaws i mentioned before. Never said that others can't to enjoy the franchise. Sure its difficult for you to understand that as it seems...

Checked.

Did you said that there's a lot of people whoy shares your opinion and enjoyes the game to this day?


-And I have no problem with constructive criticism but I feel the need to show some parity. People think they can complain and look for little things to belittle AC and think everyone agrees with them, I like to show that, there are people who love AC and as Syndicate will sell xx millions this year I'm not alone.

Yet when i do the same thing you say this:


-So telling me there are some people on the internet that agree with you is not important. And YOU keep saying AC is not as good as it was before... I'm saying that I (and other people) think it is... I don't see a drop in quality I see the evolution and as for yearly releases.. they leave me feeling empty because I have to wait so long for the next one... if it was every 6 months I'd be happier.. you can easily miss a game and get your way... I cannot make Ubisoft develop twice as quickly.

-And you cannot just say things like "AC was so successful in the first place because its artistic value (recreation of cities, intriguing story filled with mysticism...)" where is your proof ? can you prove that the majority of the 11 million buyers were not just buying it because it is a great game... I'm not denying AC has those things and they were great, but don't think everyone who buys and plays a video game is a historian or an art connoisseur.

Checked

Did i tell you what is wrong with this franchise for me?


-Repetitive, button smashing easy combat with sometimes broken mechanics (Unitys sharpshooters), upgrades that sometimes are well done and others are just more about time walls than to customize your experience, enjoyable sea shanties (i'll give you that) automatic and non-challenging, unvariable parkour system, overpower bombs and tools, (freerunning is the same as parkour), tanks? is that really a characteristic AC thing (also just in Bro), enjoyable parachutes (just in Bro and Reve), gliders? (just in 2 and Bro for a mission), wagons? i mean they are present but... is that really something FUN in the AC games to this day?; sometimes decent , most of the time horrible horse riding, missions that can be great or can be awful, horrible collectibles that should burn in hell cause they dont add ANYTHING to the game but to make you gather useless crap, improvable or downright rudimentary stealth (especially in the first games), repetitive viewpoint, challenges? (well if you are refering to the guild challenges then okay), and a sense of repetition and horrid frustration to see that you still have to complete a map full of souless content...

DId you explained why AC is perfect or why these flaws are not real.
Nope.
Checked.

Did you refuse... for the whole FREAKING post to answer the questions of why you think non-contextual gameplay overshadows artistic value?
Yes.
Checked

Did you said that i still have to clarify things


-NO... If I make a statement I do not have to explain every other possibility or conclusions that you interpret from it. I'm not responsible for what you or anyone else thinks. If I say I do not like honey and you assume I hate bees I do not have to tell you I do like bees just because you assume it follows that anyone who doesn't like honey hates bees.

You keep trying to be intelligent and keep posting ridiculous false statements and say I said it... as I've said before COPY AND PASTE to prove you are not lying.

I make a statement... you decide it is not long enough so you assume (wrongly) that it means something I didn't say but think that is what I would say.... and then you ask me to defend the response that you have made up in your head.... I cannot do that ... because I don't know what the conversation is in your head.

I said IF ... IF... and I will repeat once more so there can be no confusion (to a rational person) IF they are art it is a bonus.. NOT THEY ARE NOT ART. If you do not understand the difference then you misinterpreted it, if you do understand the importance of IF then you are ignoring what I said and imagining a statement you want to argue.

I suggest you continue this in your head... and let me know what you both decide

Whats the matter? Its like you didn't read my previous post:


-Quote Originally Posted by strigoi1958 View Post
@Ignacio BEFORE YOU TYPE ANOTHER WORD..... FIND THEN COPY AND PASTE ... where I say games are not art. I will happily justify anything I say... I do not need to justify anything you think I said...
Oh so now you're making demands after having me half of the post asking you the same question!! For god sake.



But if you insist:

Quote Originally Posted by strigoi1958 View Post
@Ignacio... show me the definition where art is included not just YOUR definition


game1
ɡeɪm/
noun
1.
a form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules.
synonyms: match, contest, tournament, meeting, sports meeting, meet, event, athletic event, fixture, tie, cup tie, test match, final, cup final, play-off; More
2.
an activity that one engages in for amusement.
"a computer game"
synonyms: pastime, diversion, entertainment, amusement, distraction, divertissement, recreation, sport, activity, leisure activity;
You give this definiton as what you think games are. You said that art does not appear in said definiton, hence art and games are not correlated.
In fact you give me this definition to prove that art does not appear in the definition of ''game''.

Also....

Quote Originally Posted by strigoi1958 View Post
What I consider art is not important... this is a gaming forum
This means that you're not willing to talk about art in a gaming forum, since for you both terms does not have any correlation and art does not have any place in a forum like this.

Well at least one of us is responding questions...
Your turn, and remember the rules, don't say anything until you've explained why games must be about FUN and art is not as relevant, what is art for you and why AC's artistic value is not as important as its non-contextual FUN.

Quote Originally Posted by strigoi1958 View Post
If you read my posts.... you'd see the picture in the spoiler section
Oh now i see it...
Well...Ok...
Thanks to put the time and effort to a person whose opinion and point of view you care so less about...
...


Quote Originally Posted by strigoi1958 View Post
But please continue to whine I've had a hard day and it cheers me up
Whining? Yeah sure i whine a lot....

I'll leave this here.

Is from another post. Your response to someone who was just saying his opinion whithout disrespecting or insulting anyone, and is non of my bussines, but it just shows how mature you are compared to me:

Quote Originally Posted by strigoi1958 View Post
Or rather than you suggesting EVERYONE else go without because YOU are a little tired... how about you just disappear for a year or 2 until you are as eager as the rest of us... I'm sick and tired of selfish whines... "I want the world to stop having fun because I'm bored"
Quote Originally Posted by strigoi1958 View Post
And regarding the quote in my signature... those are words I find helps put things in perspective but only for those who are wise enough to be enlightened by them. (also I expect there is something similar said by a philosophical Roman or Greek many years before Tolstoi.)

Perfection is what we choose it to be... not what you tell us it should be... if your lofty standards are above those of us that enjoy playing AC that is not my problem... that is yours.
Never said that AC should be perfect (as it never was), just saying that i don't think is as good as before for the flaws i mentioned before. Never said that others can't to enjoy the franchise. Sure its difficult for you to understand that as it seems...

The problem i was mentioning is your lack of capability of accepting negative criticism about something you like.

Checked

I'm I going to continue this nonsense?
No.
Double Checked.

Im tired, really tired, of repeating 100 times my arguments hoping that you would answer them in a clear way, without circling around, trying to carry the discussion to a full repetition circle where the most important questions are not gonna be answered without clarifying your points. But now i realize that i could have ended this much before. You're not going to answer, as explaining your point of view is not the scenario that benefits you the most... Why? Because you are in a discussion over a matter that you don't have a lot knowledge about, that's why when someone asks you to get deeper into your points, you can't. You talked in the first place because you couldn't stand criticism against something you like. I HATE (and you're reading me well) that kind of behaviour, as arguing with you is like smashing my head against the wall, as you can't accept anything but the best and kindest words about AC (because you know, in another way, it will be just pure hatred, right?).

As i read in some place: Arguing with you is like playing Chess with a pigeon. No matter how well you do it, the pigeon will throw the pieces to the floor, poop over the table and gloat over believing that it has won.

You keep asking me to clarify stuff and i did. The only one who has to answer questions is you.
But to late my friend. I'm off since you don't seem minded about giving answers, and more like blocking the progression of the discussions to your benefit.

Because you know what?
I'm sorry for the lack of humility (you're not very humble either), but you know you're not right, so you're going to stand until i get tired so you can have the lasts words, you know... as a consolation prize so your ego is not so hurted.

Thing is, hurting your ego was not my purpose, you did that yourself. My objective was to explain my point, and my point persists as you're not willing to give a proper clarification of why they're wrong, so i succeed. I proceed then to leave the post (not the forums as you may desire). So go ahead.... give the last words, i'll give you that pleasure.

Here are mine:

Games are art
AC is art and i still think than they're pieces of art and not brainless, non-contextual FUN.
AC does not hold up to the artistical standards nowadays.

Have a good life my good sir...

ACZanius
10-07-2015, 12:47 AM
Your opinion is only valid for you AC is still the same amazing game for me. Maybe because I came in at AC3 and went back... If it is still great for me and not you.... I'm hardly the one who is hurting :D


Lol talks about AC and how great it is, joins at AC3, legit lol you're not even original fan that's why you will never understand how the original fans feel and then you got fanboys like you, my opinion is awesome and correct umad? There is your "opinion" there is even my "opinion" but there THE REALITY of AC and state, Assassin's Creed is by no means a trash franchise or anything like that like some people hate, i will always love the lore forever and earlier games, but now it's just good, decent, every year a filler and every year just same mechanics, and of course completely lamed down modern day with no more big events happening, no crucial huge moments, nothing. But i wouldn't expect any credentials a delusional fanboy.

Ignacio_796
10-07-2015, 12:48 AM
''. sorry send the post two times''

D.I.D.
10-07-2015, 12:51 AM
kill me

strigoi1958
10-07-2015, 03:34 AM
Lol talks about AC and how great it is, joins at AC3, legit lol you're not even original fan that's why you will never understand how the original fans feel and then you got fanboys like you, my opinion is awesome and correct umad? There is your "opinion" there is even my "opinion" but there THE REALITY of AC and state, Assassin's Creed is by no means a trash franchise or anything like that like some people hate, i will always love the lore forever and earlier games, but now it's just good, decent, every year a filler and every year just same mechanics, and of course completely lamed down modern day with no more big events happening, no crucial huge moments, nothing. But i wouldn't expect any credentials a delusional fanboy.


LOL did I touch a nerve ;)

Journey93
10-07-2015, 02:00 PM
LOL did I touch a nerve ;)

Nah he is just right. I mean you can continue to like the games but the series is being milked to death and its a damm shame.

cawatrooper9
10-07-2015, 02:29 PM
Ah, the internet, where everyone's subjective opinion is their objective reality...

strigoi1958
10-07-2015, 07:14 PM
Nah he is just right. I mean you can continue to like the games but the series is being milked to death and its a damm shame.

Because our opinions differ it doesn't make him right... and because he played the games in a different order doesn't give his opinion any more validity than mine.

ACZanius
10-07-2015, 10:16 PM
Because our opinions differ it doesn't make him right... and because he played the games in a different order doesn't give his opinion any more validity than mine.

Mine is not an opinion like yours, mine is fact, Assassin's Creed Franchise is not what it used to be, modern day was lamed down, story were nothing more than fillers aka AC4 (great ****ing game but still a filler), AC rogue filler, AC Unity a filler and probably worst of them all. You never were an original fan, you started at AC3 which is awkward time to start, you dont know what made AC special, the mystery, the conspiracies, the epic smooth, fluid engaging combat of ACB, the amazing story that was epic, heart pounding and always lead to something bigger, the mind obliterating endings that left you jaw dropped to oblivion, that is gone, i started with AC way back in 2008 when i first played it on XBOX360 and was blown away became my #1 franchise of all time, then after Patrice left, since ACR it was not horrible nor even bad, but the decline was there and it was never the same, hit the wall at AC3 ending pretty much where things really get bad. Guarafkinteed true hardcore fans, MOST of old ones would agree with me 100% and be real how the situation is, it's not even an insult to call you a delusional fanboy because you clearly are one, like to ballwash Ubisoft and AC like it's best time ever for the franchise.

Locopells
10-08-2015, 12:35 AM
OK, that's it.

FINAL warning here guys. If you can't discuss this nicely, beyond this point, then I lock the thread and issue infractions.

UKassassinsfan
10-08-2015, 05:41 AM
To reply to OP, I agree.
I remember the feeling of excitement and anticipation of what the series had to offer after completing 1+2. Every time I played it got me so excited, but I agree with what someone said above me, each game of late has just felt like a filler, sometimes an attractive filler but it always left me feeling abit anti climactic. At the end of unity I was mad at how awful the story had been and the end of 4 was a similar feeling. This is unfortunately the first year since release I won't be buying the game. I'll just watching the important bits online

cawatrooper9
10-08-2015, 04:30 PM
Well, this certainly escalated quickly.

I think we can agree that each AC game has different things to offer. Since one's enjoyment of these individual things is an entirely subjective opinion, how can the whole of one's gaming experience somehow be anything but? There is no true objective way to qualify a game's quality (thus, why reviewers give games different scores).
Yeah, AC has had some weak moments that I personally wouldn't enjoy, but I understand if others like them. For instance, I think the majority of ACII is ridiculously bland and would pick ACIII over it any day of the week.

By the way, I've bought nearly every single game in the series, since the beginning, on release day.

Eduard413
10-08-2015, 09:37 PM
Mine is not an opinion like yours, mine is fact, Assassin's Creed Franchise is not what it used to be, modern day was lamed down, story were nothing more than fillers aka AC4 (great ****ing game but still a filler), AC rogue filler, AC Unity a filler and probably worst of them all. You never were an original fan, you started at AC3 which is awkward time to start, you dont know what made AC special, the mystery, the conspiracies, the epic smooth, fluid engaging combat of ACB, the amazing story that was epic, heart pounding and always lead to something bigger, the mind obliterating endings that left you jaw dropped to oblivion, that is gone, i started with AC way back in 2008 when i first played it on XBOX360 and was blown away became my #1 franchise of all time, then after Patrice left, since ACR it was not horrible nor even bad, but the decline was there and it was never the same, hit the wall at AC3 ending pretty much where things really get bad. Guarafkinteed true hardcore fans, MOST of old ones would agree with me 100% and be real how the situation is, it's not even an insult to call you a delusional fanboy because you clearly are one, like to ballwash Ubisoft and AC like it's best time ever for the franchise.

you are my hero thank you... it is rare nowadays to see somebody care for this franchise - especially I mean Modern Day part of the game... I am replaying all AC games on my XBOX360 and It makes me sad what has become of the Modern Day part of the game... I hope Syndicate will rather return to the MD style of Black Flag/Rogue rather than Unity, and if it is like Unity again, I hope there will be more videos and off course - STORY PROGRESSION which UNITY DIDN't HAVE! Unity wasn't bad game, but in terms of AC game, it was the worst in the series - no MD and not so good story in past, it was just... ohhh
thanks to people like strigoi.. this series is becoming more and more uninteresting and more a blockbuster than a epic story - you newcomers are too lazy to play all the games and off course, care about the story, you only care about graphics, action, hype and Blockbuster story - and thanks to this, you are ruining this great franchise
I really hope Syndicate will have Story progression again - I know Desmond and 3rd person will never be back but I would be ok if they would continue with BlackFlag style - Black Flag still had story progression, it wasnt so big as it was with Desmond, but I still loved Modern Day and I felt that I was part of it

Dieinthedark
10-08-2015, 09:50 PM
AC has become generic, that's the best way to put it. Templars during the Crusades made sense, it was historically accurate. Templars in the Industrial Revolution, far less believable. Templars have become the generic name for any sort of bad guy. And thus, the credibility suffers and I have lost interest.

D.I.D.
10-09-2015, 12:06 AM
^ Eh? Templars were in both the Crusades and the 21st century in AC1. How can 21st C. Templars be convincing but not 19th C. Templars?

They told you in that game that there have always been Templars and that they never really went away when history said they did. They also told you that every major power play throughout history involved a secret tug-of-war between these two factions. It's not like they ran out of ideas on this; that's the blueprint of the whole series.

strigoi1958
10-09-2015, 05:31 AM
Mine is not an opinion like yours, mine is fact, Assassin's Creed Franchise is not what it used to be, modern day was lamed down, story were nothing more than fillers aka AC4 (great ****ing game but still a filler), AC rogue filler, AC Unity a filler and probably worst of them all. You never were an original fan, you started at AC3 which is awkward time to start, you dont know what made AC special, the mystery, the conspiracies, the epic smooth, fluid engaging combat of ACB, the amazing story that was epic, heart pounding and always lead to something bigger, the mind obliterating endings that left you jaw dropped to oblivion, that is gone, i started with AC way back in 2008 when i first played it on XBOX360 and was blown away became my #1 franchise of all time, then after Patrice left, since ACR it was not horrible nor even bad, but the decline was there and it was never the same, hit the wall at AC3 ending pretty much where things really get bad. Guarafkinteed true hardcore fans, MOST of old ones would agree with me 100% and be real how the situation is, it's not even an insult to call you a delusional fanboy because you clearly are one, like to ballwash Ubisoft and AC like it's best time ever for the franchise.

Thinking an opinion is fact doesn't make it a fact... and I played AC when it came out on PC... it had potential but wasn't quite there... so I played it before you :p then I played AC3 and it was amazing... then I went back to AC 2 awful tombs but the game was ok... ACB was better and ACR the best of the 3 Ezio's..

The combat was too easy with chain kills and sneaking past guards by using courtesans was nice but still needed to improve combat difficulty for people. I still enjoy ACR a lot even now... and it has the best Trailer of any AC game :D

Regardless of whatever you like (or I... and I don't mind MD coming back even though the "shock factor" was getting silly....) The series isheading in a direction and only Ubisoft controls that. And Hardcore fans is just another way of saying Fanboys :D but nothing wrong with that....

VestigialLlama4
10-09-2015, 07:46 AM
Mine is not an opinion like yours, mine is fact, Assassin's Creed Franchise is not what it used to be, modern day was lamed down,

Okay, Mr. Fact, Modern Day was lamed down from what exactly. The MD in AC1 was Emails and Interactive Conversations. How did it get lamed down from that?


You never were an original fan,

There is no such thing. All fans are equal. The ones who started at the beginning are not any better/equal/different than the ones who come in later. Your opinion is not special solely because by accident you were there first.


you started at AC3 which is awkward time to start, you dont know what made AC special, the mystery, the conspiracies,

All of that was there in AC3 itself.


then after Patrice left, since ACR

He left during the development of ACB. He didn't like the direction that game was taking a great deal. That was originally a spin-off DLC made to a full console release.


Guarafkinteed true hardcore fans, MOST of old ones would agree with me 100% and be real how the situation is, it's not even an insult to call you a delusional fanboy ...

The only delusional person on this thread is you, suffering clearly from a false sense of self-importance because you, through no effort or inclination of your own, were there at the start.

kosmoscreed
10-09-2015, 08:54 AM
He left during the development of ACB. He didn't like the direction that game was taking a great deal. That was originally a spin-off DLC made to a full console release.



I don't think it was related to ACB, more like first he was tired of working non stop since AC1(+ new baby born), and second he didn't like Ubisoft vision for the franchise.

cawatrooper9
10-09-2015, 04:07 PM
There is no such thing. All fans are equal. The ones who started at the beginning are not any better/equal/different than the ones who come in later. Your opinion is not special solely because by accident you were there first.



I know you and I sometimes butt heads (I, for one, appreciate our debates), but I could not agree with you more here. It's great that everyone is passionate about this series, but let's not diminish others based on that passion. Anyone who has played the games has equal opportunity to understand them- it doesn't matter what game they played first, or when.

BananaBlighter
10-09-2015, 05:36 PM
There is no such thing. All fans are equal. The ones who started at the beginning are not any better/equal/different than the ones who come in later. Your opinion is not special solely because by accident you were there first.

Yes this is very true. I am extremely passionate for the whole series despite my first game being AC4. Many say we don't understand what makes the franchise special because we never experienced it from the beginning, but I don't understand, because we still experienced it nevertheless. IMO it's actually not that bad coming later in. AC2 is legendary for many people because of what it was compared to AC1, and that nostalgia carries on ignoring any advances later games made.

Having started with AC4 and going back to ACB, made the game just not feel...'complete' if you know what I mean. I'm not saying AC2 can't be your favourite game, there are many who love it because of its atmosphere, story, music, which of course is subjective, though still understand the progress later games have made, even if they don't consider it of value. I know certainly know that VestigialLama4 is one of those who can see all the innovation AC3 made, regardless of whether he/she considers it his/her favourite game or not.

It's sad many don't consider me a true fan because I came in late :(

cawatrooper9
10-09-2015, 05:46 PM
I'm not saying AC2 can't be your favourite game, there are many who love it because of its atmosphere, story, music, which of course is subjective, though still understand the progress later games have made, even if they don't consider it of value.


I played ACII when it first came out, and honestly I think that people look at it with far too rosy glasses. It was decent for its time, but I think that almost every game that has come after it has surpassed it significantly.
In a way, I can see how your relatively new arrival to the series gives you a unique and less biased perspective in this case. Not that it makes you any "more" or "less" of a fan than anyone else, but certainly unique and valuable.

VestigialLlama4
10-09-2015, 05:49 PM
I know certainly know that VestigialLama4 is one of those who can see all the innovation AC3 made, regardless of whether he/she considers it his/her favourite game or not.

Well AC3 was the annual game when I got into the series. I first played AC2 because Game of the Year edition was dirt cheap and I just bought my Xbox 360. I was a PC gamer as a kid but then the upgrades got too expensive and I dropped out of gaming. San Andreas was the last new game I invested in. The 7th generation console had a longer life so it became cheap at a time when you still had many new games to be released. So I played catch up after that. So I started with AC2, then Brotherhood, and then AC3, and then I went back to AC1, Revelations and so on. It was circuitous. One effect is that for me MD was never something I cared a great deal for. I mean I liked it as a distraction but the whole lore and Desmond's fate stuff I didn't care for, even if I liked Desmond as a character.

I liked all the pre-2014 games. If I have to play favorites I'd say AC1, AC3 and Black Flag but I love the Ezio games too.

I suppose that I get to be the hypocrite when confronted with fans who came on board with Unity and say they liked it because it was their first game. I hate Unity myself but definitely it's true that it will be a game that might bring new AC fans onboard and they will value the series on a different and no less valid lens than I do. I just hope that like me they will go back, via Playstation Now, to the earlier titles.

Farlander1991
10-09-2015, 06:07 PM
Yes this is very true. I am extremely passionate for the whole series despite my first game being AC4. Many say we don't understand what makes the franchise special because we never experienced it from the beginning, but I don't understand, because we still experienced it nevertheless.

As a person who has been with the franchise from the very beginning, heck, from the very day it was announced (I was really into the historical aspect of the Crusades during that time, and a non-fantasy historical action-adventure game set in the Third Crusade from the creators of Prince of Persia instantly caught my attention), let me tell you this: don't listen and don't mind that elitist tripe. The irony is, by the way, a lot of people who say that I noticed weren't even there from the beginning, they were there from ACII, which was already a changed game in style and substance in comparison to AC1, so there's certain irony in them complaining about changes and how it feels. And the other half who were there from AC1 and say stuff like that... well, they're just *******s I guess :p It's okay to not like something or where things are going, but it's not okay to judge and invalidate people based on when they join the series, and honestly that's entirely missing the messages that the series tries to get across in the first place. Nothing is true, everything is permitted. So, Ori-Troller, like what you like, think what you think, don't follow me, or anyone else. ;) :)

Assassin_M
10-09-2015, 06:30 PM
As a person who has been with the franchise from the very beginning, heck, from the very day it was announced (I was really into the historical aspect of the Crusades during that time, and a non-fantasy historical action-adventure game set in the Third Crusade from the creators of Prince of Persia instantly caught my attention), let me tell you this: don't listen and don't mind that elitist tripe. The irony is, by the way, a lot of people who say that I noticed weren't even there from the beginning, they were there from ACII, which was already a changed game in style and substance in comparison to AC1, so there's certain irony in them complaining about changes and how it feels. And the other half who were there from AC1 and say stuff like that... well, they're just *******s I guess :p It's okay to not like something or where things are going, but it's not okay to judge and invalidate people based on when they join the series, and honestly that's entirely missing the messages that the series tries to get across in the first place. Nothing is true, everything is permitted. So, Ori-Troller, like what you like, think what you think, don't follow me, or anyone else. ;) :)
What's funny is that people who do this are relatively new members on this forum. This can easily be turned around at them and someone like you or me could say "hoy hoy, shut up, newb, you're new here, so you're not qualified to zpeak"

I like watching them flare up, though. That's not passion, that's a child throwing a fit.

ACZanius
10-09-2015, 09:53 PM
Thinking an opinion is fact doesn't make it a fact... and I played AC when it came out on PC... it had potential but wasn't quite there... so I played it before you :p then I played AC3 and it was amazing... then I went back to AC 2 awful tombs but the game was ok... ACB was better and ACR the best of the 3 Ezio's..

The combat was too easy with chain kills and sneaking past guards by using courtesans was nice but still needed to improve combat difficulty for people. I still enjoy ACR a lot even now... and it has the best Trailer of any AC game :D

Regardless of whatever you like (or I... and I don't mind MD coming back even though the "shock factor" was getting silly....) The series isheading in a direction and only Ubisoft controls that. And Hardcore fans is just another way of saying Fanboys :D but nothing wrong with that....


hardcore fans are not delusional fanboys who like to ****ride Ubisoft and AC and making franchise more average, being completely blinded by how franchise is going not even in wrong direction but some wrong directions, i don't THINK mine is an opinion i KNOW what i say is FACT, what made Assassin's Creed special was what it used to have, the mind blowing modern day conspiracy connections, the epic endings that lead to unknown and something bigger, it all lead to the grand finales which sadly were completely ruined and demolished in AC ending, AC4 is a great amazing game i love it but it it still a filler, Rogue is a filler, Unity is worst of them all, brb normal story, almost complete disregard of modern day watching cut-scenes of Bishop and no major events happening, broken at launch :p :p

Assassin_M
10-09-2015, 10:02 PM
hardcore fans are not delusional fanboys who like to ****ride Ubisoft and AC and making franchise more average, being completely blinded by how franchise is going not even in wrong direction but some wrong directions, i don't THINK mine is an opinion i KNOW what i say is FACT, what made Assassin's Creed special was what it used to have, the mind blowing modern day conspiracy connections, the epic endings that lead to unknown and something bigger, it all lead to the grand finales which sadly were completely ruined and demolished in AC ending, AC4 is a great amazing game i love it but it it still a filler, Rogue is a filler, Unity is worst of them all, brb normal story, almost complete disregard of modern day watching cut-scenes of Bishop and no major events happening, broken at launch :p :p
Your grammar and punctuation are atrocious.

ACZanius
10-09-2015, 10:28 PM
"Okay, Mr. Fact, Modern Day was lamed down from what exactly. The MD in AC1 was Emails and Interactive Conversations. How did it get lamed down from that?"

Moden day was at peak with AC1, AC2, ACB, ACR and some with AC3, what happened to the whole plot? Why aren't we doing big things in modern world fighting Juno instead being some lame "abstergo entertainment" guy walking around with tablet doing errand boy stuff? Why aren't we being modern assassin infiltrating something, more action packed, doing SIGNIFICANT STUFF? What happened to the mystery and huge epic endings that left you wanting for more? What happened to polished fluid, smooth combat that was ACB? So much more...


"There is no such thing. All fans are equal. The ones who started at the beginning are not any better/equal/different than the ones who come in later. Your opinion is not special solely because by accident you were there first."

But it is, if someone says AC Unity is best AC game ever, sure they have an opinion, everyone is entitled, but that opinion is **** and wrong, and if i can, and i will prove that Unity is nothing compared to AC1,AC2,ACB except for quality of graphics, detail of city, and crowd detail, other than that it's completely inferior to them in story, combat, music, overarching plot. Same with AC Rogue, AC4 was so good but man if it only had better modern day and did justice to Juno plot, still had that clunky A3 combat.


"All of that was there in AC3 itself."

No it was not, AC3's pinnacle was that we were finally here as Desmond doing full fledged assassin missions, it was very amazing what they did but it was no even tip of the iceberg, last game that had "the essence" of what made AC special and for me personally greatest franchise of all time (was), then it dissapears, and even more the horrible executed ending that killed something AC inside me. I loved the franchise so much i still do the whole LORE but not games so much.


"He left during the development of ACB. He didn't like the direction that game was taking a great deal. That was originally a spin-off DLC made to a full console release."

That's not even true lol, it was nothing with direction stop making things up, it was his personal life thing he had to deal with, and later Ubisoft fired him and whatever shady stuff that happened, typical.


"The only delusional person on this thread is you, suffering clearly from a false sense of self-importance because you, through no effort or inclination of your own, were there at the start."

no idea what you mean

:p

@Assassin_M

My grammar has no errors, you're just mad because i am right, plus you're known AC 2 hater and modern day hater, and everything i said is right about franchise. Instead of contributing to this thread and arguing me with at least something, yeah that be great. Otherwise, no hate.

Assassin_M
10-09-2015, 10:52 PM
@Assassin_M

My grammar has no errors, you're just mad because i am right, plus you're known AC 2 hater and modern day hater, and everything i said is right about franchise. Instead of contributing to this thread and arguing me with at least something, yeah that be great. Otherwise, no hate.
Yes it does. When you learn how to argue and when you fix your atrocious grammar, then I might think about arguing. If for nothing but to demonstrate your incompetence (Though you seem to be doing quite well on your own in that regard). Otherwise, it's pointless to argue with someone whose only arguments are "I'm ryt, U all wronk, eferysink was gut bfore butt now iz bad raa raaaaa...uhmm....ehh...harkore bleh"

ACZanius
10-09-2015, 11:07 PM
Yes it does. When you learn how to argue and when you fix your atrocious grammar, then I might think about arguing. If for nothing but to demonstrate your incompetence. Otherwise, it's pointless to argue with someone who's only arguments are "I'm ryt, U all wronk, eferysink was gut bfore butt now iz bad raa raaaaa"


There are no errors in my grammar, fact, you're wrong


By writing down sound word example doesn't make you seem smart and on higher ground nerd

I didn't say just "i'm right you're wrong" i continued with factual things happening in AC therefore while making that statement, you're wrong, plain and simple :p


I understand that i put a little vibe of negativity which is true, but i can't help myself when what it used to be my favorite franchise of all time has a decline and i see delusional blind fanboys being but hurt when called out on what is state of AC. With that said if the rumors and to certain extent real info is regarding modern day, 3rd person, and mix of earlier games style is true, i'm gonna cry and hope that AC can be amazing, epic, breath-taking and can become giant again.


inb4 Unity modern day is bishop scenes and huge things happening yet again off screen and another filler

Assassin_M
10-09-2015, 11:16 PM
There are no errors in my grammar, fact, you're wrong



By writing down sound word example doesn't make you seem smart and on higher ground nerd
Run-on.

*By writing down some word example, you don't seem smart nor on higher ground, nerd.


didn't say just "i'm right you're wrong" i continued with factual things happening in AC
No, you just said it was good. You don't go in depth about anything. You only keep saying buzzwords like "OMG TWISTS" or "OMG, QUALITY". You don't explain WHY you think so, you don't go in depth explaining anything about your opinions.


but i can't help myself when what *it used to be my favorite franchise of all time has a decline
No "it"


and i see delusional blind fanboys being but hurt when called out on what is state of AC.
Butt*


With that said if the rumors and to certain extent real info is regarding modern day, 3rd person, and mix of earlier games style is true, i'm gonna cry and hope that AC can be amazing, epic, breath-taking and can become giant again.

This whole thing just makes no sense.

*With that said, if the rumors and, to a certain extent, some real info regarding modern day like 3rd person, mix of earlier game styles are true, then i'm gonna cry and hope that AC can be amazing, epic, breathtaking and giant again.



inb4 Unity modern day is bishop scenes and huge things happening yet again off screen and another filler
wat?

ACZanius
10-09-2015, 11:26 PM
Run-on.

*By writing down some word example, you don't seem smart nor on higher ground, nerd.


No, you just said it was good. You don't go in depth about anything. You only keep saying buzzwords like "OMG TWISTS" or "OMG, QUALITY". You don't explain WHY you think so, you don't go in depth explaining anything about your opinions.


No "it"


Butt*



This whole thing just makes no sense.

*With that said, if the rumors and, to a certain extent, some real info regarding modern day like 3rd person, mix of earlier game styles are true, then i'm gonna cry and hope that AC can be amazing, epic, breathtaking and giant again.



wat?

Rustled :p

Instead of answering me in normal way or pointing something you make stuff up and saying nonsense.

Assassin_M
10-09-2015, 11:35 PM
Rustled :p
You wish.



Instead of answering me in *a normal way or pointing something *out, you make stuff up and say* nonsense.

I suppose the gap in intellect is just too much.

ACZanius
10-09-2015, 11:40 PM
You wish.




I suppose the gap in intellect is just too much.

You insulted me for my "supposed" intellect so i have right to do the same, you've been rustled hard, it appears from your response, you're a dumb c**t, there now we are even

:p:cool:

Assassin_M
10-09-2015, 11:45 PM
You insulted me for my "supposed" intellect so i have the* right to do the *same. It appears that from your response, you've been rustled hard. You're* a dumb c**t, there. Now* we are even


Show your grammar teacher some respect.

ACZanius
10-09-2015, 11:52 PM
Show your grammar teacher some respect.


Lmao there was literally nothing wrong with how i typed, i just checked and doubled checked with net, you made stuff up for the past 3 posts completely up. Caught frauding "AC Expert" :p

Assassin_M
10-10-2015, 12:06 AM
You made stuff up for the past 3 posts completely up.
:|


frauding
There's no such word. Instead of going to your esteemed English teacher, you rely on faulty "net" searches. I'm disappointed, student. From now on, you shall call me Sensei. I'll make you a Senpai if you behave.

D.I.D.
10-10-2015, 12:09 AM
Lmao there was literally nothing wrong with how i typed, i just checked and doubled checked with net, you made stuff up for the past 3 posts completely up. Caught frauding "AC Expert" :p

I say this purely to prevent this going on forever; your posts were riddled with mistakes. Of course, you've double-checked and you think you've confirmed that what you wrote was fine. There are no surprises there, given that you're also the person who wrote that error-strewn nonsense.

Could you be wrong about a video game instead, please? It's less embarrassing for the onlookers. Thank you.

ACZanius
10-10-2015, 12:09 AM
:|


There's no such word. Instead of going to your esteemed English teacher, you rely on faulty "net" searches. I'm disappointed, student. From now on, you shall call me Sensei. I'll make you a Senpai if you behave.

Lmao "no such word" get a grip of reality and stop being mad because i rustled your jimmies :p, you made everything up and you started these last **** contributions instead of addressing what i said originally. This thread should be locked anyway, it's lame now and only **** posting.

Assassin_M
10-10-2015, 12:16 AM
Get a grip of reality and stop being mad because i rustled your jimmies :p, you made everything up and you started these last **** contributions instead of addressing what i said originally. This thread should be locked anyway, it's lame now and only **** posting.
There's not a single mistake here. I fully understood the sentence. Bravoooooo, student. I'm very proud...I'm actually crying. You are now Zanbrah-senpai. Be an example to your fellow students and maybe one day, you'll be an esteemed sensei, like me. For now, Zanbrah-Senpai, you should work on your arguing skills and temper control. The tantrum you threw in the beginning indicates what is known as "rustled jimmies". We can't have that. And no, saying that the other person is the one with rustled jimmies doesn't work either when it's blatantly clear that you're the one with rustled jimmies. You have to be smart....Not as smart as me, of course, i'm beyond comprehension, but smart enough to realize that no matter how many smilies you put, you'll still be the one with rustled jimmies.

I mean, look at this ish:


Mine is not an opinion like yours, mine is fact, Assassin's Creed Franchise is not what it used to be, modern day was lamed down, story were nothing more than fillers aka AC4 (great ****ing game but still a filler), AC rogue filler, AC Unity a filler and probably worst of them all. You never were an original fan, you started at AC3 which is awkward time to start, you dont know what made AC special, the mystery, the conspiracies, the epic smooth, fluid engaging combat of ACB, the amazing story that was epic, heart pounding and always lead to something bigger, the mind obliterating endings that left you jaw dropped to oblivion, that is gone, i started with AC way back in 2008 when i first played it on XBOX360 and was blown away became my #1 franchise of all time, then after Patrice left, since ACR it was not horrible nor even bad, but the decline was there and it was never the same, hit the wall at AC3 ending pretty much where things really get bad. Guarafkinteed true hardcore fans, MOST of old ones would agree with me 100% and be real how the situation is, it's not even an insult to call you a delusional fanboy because you clearly are one, like to ballwash Ubisoft and AC like it's best time ever for the franchise.

Tell me this doesn't look like it's been ripped straight out of a guide to being a spoiled brat booklet. Kids these days. You dern kids. Carry on, Senpai.

ACZanius
10-10-2015, 12:27 AM
There's not a single mistake here. I fully understood the sentence. Bravoooooo, student. I'm very proud...I'm actually crying. You are now Zanbrah-senpai. Be an example to your fellow students and maybe one day, you'll be an esteemed sensei, like me. For now, Zanbrah-Senpai, you should work on your arguing skills and temper control. The tantrum you threw in the beginning indicates what is known as "rustled jimmies". We can't have that. And no, saying that the other person is the one with rustled jimmies doesn't work either when it's blatantly clear that you're the one with rustled jimmies. You have to be smart....Not as smart as me, of course, i'm beyond comprehension, but smart enough to realize that no matter how many smilies you put, you'll still be the one with rustled jimmies.

I mean, look at this ish:



Tell me this doesn't look like it's been ripped straight out of a guide to being a spoiled brat booklet. Kids these days. You dern kids. Carry on, Senpai.


Yet again you're full of **** and posting non-sense, you're my senpai you keep ignoring everything i said and still fails to acknowledge that you made everything about the grammar thing, so when you stop being delusional my senpai, and when you start obeying your sensei Zanbrah, maybe you could learn a thing or two, kid, my young senpai you need to learn how to control yourself because how rustled you are and mad it's beyond obvious, you are calling out everything i posted including smilies because you are looking to surpass your sensei Zanbrah, it's ok to be mad kid, you are of a rather simple mind, take a deep breath.


:cool:

Assassin_M
10-10-2015, 12:30 AM
So, back on topic.

ACZanius
10-10-2015, 12:37 AM
So, back on topic.

Back on topic it is, awaiting for responses from others in this **** thread. brb