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View Full Version : So I was replaying ACL: HD...



Farlander1991
10-03-2015, 03:47 PM
I didn't finish my replaythrough of Revelations yet, decided to sidetrack a bit with giving ACL another chance. ACL is the only console AC game that I haven't finished, and at this point, I don't think I ever will.

First and foremost, I want to point out that ACL has some interesting ideas - mainly the persona system where each persona has its advantages and disadvantages. That was neat.

And... that's about it.

In my personal experience, the game is the buggiest mess out of all AC game series. Previously I've seen tons of ****, like swimming on the ground, getting shot while synchronizing a view point (and when fell down to my death the game didn't count it as 'desynchronized'), attack button getting disabled, I can't even remember them all because I was always so annoyed by the bugs, and this time the game didn't want to disappoint me by not providing more bugs, like a store loading only the background with no other options (which forced to restart the game), Baptiste getting stuck behind the 'crowd circle' after I threw him there, making me unable to kill him (you can't go beyond the crowd in the mission), forcing a restart...

And you know, this wouldn't have been so bad, if:
a) the story would've made some sense at least
b) the mission design was good.

The story is told in such an abrupt way, that I can't simply understand to the life of me what and why is going on. There's no coherence. And while I haven't played the game to the finish, I've decided to watch all story on YouTube, and... it still doesn't make any damn sense. While some characters have interesting set-ups, there's no normal character arcs, the Templar plan is confusing, and it's just incomprehensible.

And mission design... like, I know that this was a Vita game. But it's not an excuse, you can still make good missions. Liberation has the most linear missions out of the entire series. If you think AC3 is linear, then you've seen nothing if you haven't played ACL. And it's sad, because you can see the potential, you can see the good ideas, but it's just... ugh.

And the music - this game is probably the only console AC game where I can say that 'the music is eeeehhhh'.

So, yeah, ACL... it's going to remain unfinished.

LoyalACFan
10-03-2015, 04:29 PM
Pretty much sums up my experience with it as well (getting shot off a viewpoint is hilarious though, never saw that happen before). Sounds like you got farther than I did though, I gave up on it pretty quick. I had no money staked in it (played it on a borrowed PS3) so I didn't feel like I was invested.

EmptyCrustacean
10-03-2015, 04:48 PM
I didn't finish my replaythrough of Revelations yet, decided to sidetrack a bit with giving ACL another chance. ACL is the only console AC game that I haven't finished, and at this point, I don't think I ever will.

First and foremost, I want to point out that ACL has some interesting ideas - mainly the persona system where each persona has its advantages and disadvantages. That was neat.

And... that's about it.

In my personal experience, the game is the buggiest mess out of all AC game series. Previously I've seen tons of ****, like swimming on the ground, getting shot while synchronizing a view point (and when fell down to my death the game didn't count it as 'desynchronized'), attack button getting disabled, I can't even remember them all because I was always so annoyed by the bugs, and this time the game didn't want to disappoint me by not providing more bugs, like a store loading only the background with no other options (which forced to restart the game), Baptiste getting stuck behind the 'crowd circle' after I threw him there, making me unable to kill him (you can't go beyond the crowd in the mission), forcing a restart...

And you know, this wouldn't have been so bad, if:
a) the story would've made some sense at least
b) the mission design was good.

The story is told in such an abrupt way, that I can't simply understand to the life of me what and why is going on. There's no coherence. And while I haven't played the game to the finish, I've decided to watch all story on YouTube, and... it still doesn't make any damn sense. While some characters have interesting set-ups, there's no normal character arcs, the Templar plan is confusing, and it's just incomprehensible.

And mission design... like, I know that this was a Vita game. But it's not an excuse, you can still make good missions. Liberation has the most linear missions out of the entire series. If you think AC3 is linear, then you've seen nothing if you haven't played ACL. And it's sad, because you can see the potential, you can see the good ideas, but it's just... ugh.

And the music - this game is probably the only console AC game where I can say that 'the music is eeeehhhh'.

So, yeah, ACL... it's going to remain unfinished.

The personas were the worst part - cheesy and offensive to blacks and women.

LoyalACFan
10-03-2015, 05:37 PM
The personas were the worst part - cheesy and offensive to blacks and women.

Eh, if they'd been executed better they could have been a really smart social commentary (where better to blend in than among the ones to whom society never gave a second thought?) and I think that was probably the initial thought behind it, but... mehhh. Like Farlander said more eloquently than me, the game was just too abrupt, choppy, and just generally forgettable to make much of a philosophical impact.

EmptyCrustacean
10-03-2015, 06:15 PM
Eh, if they'd been executed better they could have been a really smart social commentary (where better to blend in than among the ones to whom society never gave a second thought?) and I think that was probably the initial thought behind it, but... mehhh. Like Farlander said more eloquently than me, the game was just too abrupt, choppy, and just generally forgettable to make much of a philosophical impact.

There's no way to make it better. Putting in a charm/flirt mechanic is sexist as it plays into this idea that women only ever use sex to achieve their goals, even an Assassin who has plenty of tools and resources (including her brain) at her disposal other than her ******. There are ways of showing life for a woman back then and showing sexism without the game, itself, being sexist. Simply put, those personas never should have been there. It's ok for characters to judge and define Aveline by her race, it's not ok for the devs to do it.

It's also particularly problematic because the game makes a point of her being a half black woman so any guard that caught her doing that nonsense would lock her up instantly. Which leads me to the slave persona which is just all kinds of wrong. Black slavery never had any benefits for black people so to implement it in a persna as if to suggest it has advantages when getting by is disgusting. It would also be nice to see some form of media that documents black people BEFORE they were slaves.

The game was clearly spearheaded by a bunch of white men who don't understand black women at all so they resorted to stereotypes. They had no respect or faith in their protagonist since it was originally a PS vita and put no effort into the mission design at all. It was a bummer to finally get to a play as a black woman and then to discover it's just a game telling us how pathetic we are.

king-hailz
10-03-2015, 06:22 PM
Well I haven't even played it yet, didn't buy it because of what everyone else has been saying. However what you mention of the story is what I thought of AC3, I thought that story was also told in a very strange and awkward way which is one of the reasons I didn't like it.

Farlander1991
10-03-2015, 08:14 PM
Pretty much sums up my experience with it as well (getting shot off a viewpoint is hilarious though, never saw that happen before). Sounds like you got farther than I did though, I gave up on it pretty quick. I had no money staked in it (played it on a borrowed PS3) so I didn't feel like I was invested.

I got to like close to the end of sequence 4 this time.

Also, assassinations suck. AC3 at least has 2 freeform assassinations (3 if you count Silas, it's kinda structured like an assassination mission). Like, the first two assassinations, you have an objective to approach undetected, and then Aveline in a cutscene reveals herself and it transforms into an open combat scenario, while the third one (which I guess technically isn't assassination as the target is spared, but it's supposed to be) has you setting up traps in a very strict time limit (and parkour in ACL is very buggy, there's no consistency, Aveline frequently thinks something that you can hang to is a corner and just falls down, if you happened to jump at it from a ever so slightly wrong angle, so that mission was a pain) and then battling everyone.

Not that there's something particularly wrong with having combat-based assassinations sometimes, but consistently getting revealed in cutscenes, especially when previously the objective was to be undetected, is very annoying.

Also, there was a mission where we were supposed to tail Gerald, our ally, without him noticing us, I was doing that and was baffled by why. I guess the idea was that we weren't supposed to know that at the time maybe? But it's still ridiculous, because after you learn that he's part of the Assassins, the question still appears, why did we have to tail him? Also there was a mission with him that I can only describe as an arbitrary 'mandatory carriage chase' mission, or something.

SixKeys
10-03-2015, 09:45 PM
Have to disagree about the soundtrack. I thought it was better than AC3. At least there was ambient music and it was in tune with the whole assassin theme, the melodies were foreboding and worked great for stealth.

I'm surprised you experienced many glitches as I can only recall two or three in my entire playthrough. Surprisingly little for an AC title.

Completely agreed about the story being a disjointed, confusing mess though. The decision to tell most of it through database entries was baffling (AC3 suffered from the same idea, albeit to a lesser extent). I watched part of the original Vita game on YouTube and thought the uploader was editing out cut scenes, so I quit watching. Then I found out the game is supposed to be like that. When the HD version came out, the devs talked about having made some changes to the story presentation, so I was hopeful that they were going to include new cut scenes that would make the story flow better. But as far as I can tell, there were no changes.

The persona system was definitely interesting and I can't believe they haven't brought it back yet. It has so much potential. Even a barebones version of that would have been better than the ridiculous morphing disguise skill in Unity.

ACL and AC3 are pretty much tied for last spot on my ranking of AC games. Being built on the same foundation, they share many of the same problems (enemy AI, imprecise parkour, bad mission design etc.). but I still enjoyed Liberation just a bit more than AC3.

Farlander1991
10-03-2015, 10:06 PM
Have to disagree about the soundtrack. I thought it was better than AC3. At least there was ambient music and it was in tune with the whole assassin theme, the melodies were foreboding and worked great for stealth.

Well, there was one theme that I kinda liked, but other than that the music was meh for me. I really like AC3 soundtrack, though to be honest some of the tracks that I really like and probably are one of my favourites from AC3 weren't actually released officially on OST, like this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FccObUK1p6I) (part that starts at 1:50 especially) or this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b0oF6ovmrU), or this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t3Ja3r1YQw) (was used not just for Concord, though).


I'm surprised you experienced many glitches as I can only recall two or three in my entire playthrough. Surprisingly little for an AC title.

It's insane, there hasn't been a game session where I didn't have to reload the game fully due to a glitch or a bug, not to mention a bunch of other bugs.


When the HD version came out, the devs talked about having made some changes to the story presentation, so I was hopeful that they were going to include new cut scenes that would make the story flow better. But as far as I can tell, there were no changes.

Well, I looked at wikia, apparently there's some new or changed cutscenes, and also there's the animus text between sequences that wasn't in the Vita version, but... that doesn't help not one bit.


ACL and AC3 are pretty much tied for last spot on my ranking of AC games. Being built on the same foundation, they share many of the same problems (enemy AI, imprecise parkour, bad mission design etc.). but I still enjoyed Liberation just a bit more than AC3.

For all AC3's issues, I've spent about 55 hours in the main campaign and have enjoyed the game overall (even 100%-ed it), though the thought of replaying the story from the beginning seems perhaps a bit daunting. But ACL... no. Just, no. I thought, you know what, I need to at least finish it if not 100% it, but I can't.

Sushiglutton
10-03-2015, 10:14 PM
Never touched it, don't really see any quality at all. The persona system seems very gamey to me and not that clever.

EmbodyingSeven5
10-03-2015, 10:29 PM
There's no way to make it better. Putting in a charm/flirt mechanic is sexist as it plays into this idea that women only ever use sex to achieve their goals, even an Assassin who has plenty of tools and resources (including her brain) at her disposal other than her ******. There are ways of showing life for a woman back then and showing sexism without the game, itself, being sexist. Simply put, those personas never should have been there. It's ok for characters to judge and define Aveline by her race, it's not ok for the devs to do it.

It's also particularly problematic because the game makes a point of her being a half black woman so any guard that caught her doing that nonsense would lock her up instantly. Which leads me to the slave persona which is just all kinds of wrong. Black slavery never had any benefits for black people so to implement it in a persna as if to suggest it has advantages when getting by is disgusting. It would also be nice to see some form of media that documents black people BEFORE they were slaves.

The game was clearly spearheaded by a bunch of white men who don't understand black women at all so they resorted to stereotypes. They had no respect or faith in their protagonist since it was originally a PS vita and put no effort into the mission design at all. It was a bummer to finally get to a play as a black woman and then to discover it's just a game telling us how pathetic we are.

Stereotypes? What the actual f**k? Avelanes a well written character who is noble and smart. She uses her appearance to blend in with different groups because of how divided society was at the time. I found the mechanic to be really interesting. If you dress like a noble women from the time you can blend in better and flirt. If you dress as a slave you can sneak into certain areas.

Why is slavery so touchy? It happened and it was horrible, but we cant talk about it in any context besides that? I find it interesting that a character would do that in their circumstances, Adewale did the same in Freedom cry.

SixKeys
10-04-2015, 12:15 AM
There's no way to make it better. Putting in a charm/flirt mechanic is sexist as it plays into this idea that women only ever use sex to achieve their goals, even an Assassin who has plenty of tools and resources (including her brain) at her disposal other than her ******. There are ways of showing life for a woman back then and showing sexism without the game, itself, being sexist. Simply put, those personas never should have been there. It's ok for characters to judge and define Aveline by her race, it's not ok for the devs to do it.

It's also particularly problematic because the game makes a point of her being a half black woman so any guard that caught her doing that nonsense would lock her up instantly. Which leads me to the slave persona which is just all kinds of wrong. Black slavery never had any benefits for black people so to implement it in a persna as if to suggest it has advantages when getting by is disgusting. It would also be nice to see some form of media that documents black people BEFORE they were slaves.

The game was clearly spearheaded by a bunch of white men who don't understand black women at all so they resorted to stereotypes. They had no respect or faith in their protagonist since it was originally a PS vita and put no effort into the mission design at all. It was a bummer to finally get to a play as a black woman and then to discover it's just a game telling us how pathetic we are.

Erm, the game was written by a woman, Jill Murray. She also wrote Freedom Cry.

I sort of agree about the lady persona being sexist, but disagree with your other points. Being a mulatto was more acceptable at the time than being fully black. A person of mixed race could get away with some things that a black person couldn't as long as they had good connections, which Aveline did. So it's not totally unrealistic that the guards would go easy on her.

Secondly, the slave persona doesn't represent slavery being a good thing, you're reeeally stretching with that one. It's clearly not shown as a good thing, it restricts Aveline's freedom of movement, changes how people treat her and forces her to work in order to be accepted. It's only useful for her because she is an assassin and comes from a wealthy family. She knows that if she gets in trouble she will have a way out. That doesn't mean the same applies for all slaves. It's hardly different from Ezio pretending to be a harmless lute player in order to get past some guards.

EmptyCrustacean
10-04-2015, 12:30 AM
Stereotypes? What the actual f**k? Avelanes a well written character who is noble and smart. She uses her appearance to blend in with different groups because of how divided society was at the time. I found the mechanic to be really interesting. If you dress like a noble women from the time you can blend in better and flirt. If you dress as a slave you can sneak into certain areas.

She's a horrible character and one of the worst written females of colour I have ever seen in any entertainment medium. With virtually no personality she is completely defined by her race and gender. Perpetuating this lie that black women back then just had to dress nicely and flirt with men in order to not be chained up is stupid. Even the concept of "dressing like a slave" is stupid. I can assure you that slaves did not dress quite so glamourously - that's when they wore clothes at all.



Why is slavery so touchy? It happened and it was horrible, but we cant talk about it in any context besides that?

Yes, because to use it any other way normalises and/or glamourises it. It's a subject matter that should be handled with respect.

pacmanate
10-04-2015, 12:52 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6fNzL7yEDc

Smithies89
10-04-2015, 01:30 AM
The whole story made no sence for me why would the secretive Templars release a product that acknowledges their existence and the whole Erudito hacks ruined it for me, you watch a scene then some time later you randomly run into a Citizen E and see a different scene completely out of context it just ruined it for me.

Also the ability to swim from one end of the Bayou with no danger at all just felt ridiculous, I think I bumped into an alligator once through the entire play through

Zafar1981
10-04-2015, 02:13 AM
I played the game on Xbox 360 when it was ported. Personally I can't understand the story and the game look lost in dark.

This is the only AC game which I started and never finished.

Personally I rank this game the worst in the AC series.