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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 06:43 AM
I was intriged by the Debate in the Oleg's Recovery Room, so...I *tried* to design my first flight testing procedure. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif Any helpful ideas would be wellcome.

This is amateur testing, but the FB Pros don't seem to be doing it while posting full altitude data.

Starting from 50 meters altitude with initial speed 250km/hr. Pull nose up to maintain 250km/hr (with about 20km/hr error range--must work on that). Throttle 100% with boost. No CEM or engine overheat--its an amateur test and maybe this isn't a "Flight Model" Debate after all.

Apologies for not being consistent with significant figures, I have just begun to design this, And it took me a few tries before I got consistent results. Then I started recording data in further tries. I guess test piloting is a different sort of profession than combat flying.

**** Also I used cockpit clock, which may be an issue itself and La~7 does not have second hands. Next time I will find my watch (lost it). Or I could test the cockpit clocks against watch.

Tried to stay on course and minimap with waypoint lines helped. When correcting course error, do not try to get back on course, as that will worsen the horizontal distance error. Just try to maintain correct West heading. Horizontal distance is east-west distance only (see mission map provided below). I used the 10km squares in minimap to estimate horizontal distance to 1km accuracy.

Paused to record data at 5km and 7km. Tip:: before unpausing, pull stick back slightly or your nose falls a little after un-pause.

--------------------------------------------------------

La~7

Alt 5km......Time 4 minutes......Horizontal Distance 20km
Alt 7km......Time 7 minutes......Horizontal Distance 38km

Alt 5km......Time 4 minutes......Horizontal Distance 22km
Alt 7km......Time 7 minutes......Horizontal Distance 42km

--------------------------------------------------------

Bf109K4

The second 109K test result below is bizzare, but I include it anyway as I had intended to include it.

Alt 5km......Time 3.5 minutes......Horizontal Distance 17km
Alt 7km......Time 5..minutes......Horizontal Distance 27km

Alt 5km......Time 5 minutes......Horizontal Distance 25km
Alt 7km......Time 7.5 minutes......Horizontal Distance 38km

Alt 5km......Time 3.5 minutes......Horizontal Distance 17km
Alt 7km......Time 5.2 minutes......Horizontal Distance 27km

Alt 5km......Time 3.5 minutes......Horizontal Distance 17km
Alt 7km......Time 5.2 minutes......Horizontal Distance 18km*

----------------------------------------------------------

* The 18km on the last one *must* be from sloppiness but here it is anyway--probably "was" 28km but I didn't record that did I? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Starting from 50m and 250km/hr, with no CEM and 250km/hr climb speed, Bf109K4 beats La~7 to 5km faster and in shorter horizontal distance.

However, it *does* seem that La~7 outclimbs Bf109K4 until an estimated 1km -- 3km altitude. Must get more data points to prove this, like time to every 1km altitude interval. The visually interesting thing is that at high altitude the La~7 needs to lower nose much more then 109K. La loses power faster with altitude than 109K.

So I fail test pilot school. I'm ready to get back to the Front Line map anyway.

----------------

Here is the mission I used in FMB


[MAIN]
MAP Kursk/load.ini
TIME 12.0
CloudType 1
CloudHeight 1500.0
player g0100
army 2
playerNum 0
[Wing]
g0100
[g0100]
Planes 1
Skill 1
Class air.BF_109K4
Fuel 100
weapons default
[g0100_Way]
NORMFLY 180000.05 90000.15 50.00 250.00
NORMFLY 9751.25 90000.29 50.00 250.00
[NStationary]
[Buildings]
[Bridge]
[House]

Actually, doing this was kinda fun, different in a way. Very different. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Message Edited on 11/01/0305:45AM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 06:43 AM
I was intriged by the Debate in the Oleg's Recovery Room, so...I *tried* to design my first flight testing procedure. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif Any helpful ideas would be wellcome.

This is amateur testing, but the FB Pros don't seem to be doing it while posting full altitude data.

Starting from 50 meters altitude with initial speed 250km/hr. Pull nose up to maintain 250km/hr (with about 20km/hr error range--must work on that). Throttle 100% with boost. No CEM or engine overheat--its an amateur test and maybe this isn't a "Flight Model" Debate after all.

Apologies for not being consistent with significant figures, I have just begun to design this, And it took me a few tries before I got consistent results. Then I started recording data in further tries. I guess test piloting is a different sort of profession than combat flying.

**** Also I used cockpit clock, which may be an issue itself and La~7 does not have second hands. Next time I will find my watch (lost it). Or I could test the cockpit clocks against watch.

Tried to stay on course and minimap with waypoint lines helped. When correcting course error, do not try to get back on course, as that will worsen the horizontal distance error. Just try to maintain correct West heading. Horizontal distance is east-west distance only (see mission map provided below). I used the 10km squares in minimap to estimate horizontal distance to 1km accuracy.

Paused to record data at 5km and 7km. Tip:: before unpausing, pull stick back slightly or your nose falls a little after un-pause.

--------------------------------------------------------

La~7

Alt 5km......Time 4 minutes......Horizontal Distance 20km
Alt 7km......Time 7 minutes......Horizontal Distance 38km

Alt 5km......Time 4 minutes......Horizontal Distance 22km
Alt 7km......Time 7 minutes......Horizontal Distance 42km

--------------------------------------------------------

Bf109K4

The second 109K test result below is bizzare, but I include it anyway as I had intended to include it.

Alt 5km......Time 3.5 minutes......Horizontal Distance 17km
Alt 7km......Time 5..minutes......Horizontal Distance 27km

Alt 5km......Time 5 minutes......Horizontal Distance 25km
Alt 7km......Time 7.5 minutes......Horizontal Distance 38km

Alt 5km......Time 3.5 minutes......Horizontal Distance 17km
Alt 7km......Time 5.2 minutes......Horizontal Distance 27km

Alt 5km......Time 3.5 minutes......Horizontal Distance 17km
Alt 7km......Time 5.2 minutes......Horizontal Distance 18km*

----------------------------------------------------------

* The 18km on the last one *must* be from sloppiness but here it is anyway--probably "was" 28km but I didn't record that did I? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Starting from 50m and 250km/hr, with no CEM and 250km/hr climb speed, Bf109K4 beats La~7 to 5km faster and in shorter horizontal distance.

However, it *does* seem that La~7 outclimbs Bf109K4 until an estimated 1km -- 3km altitude. Must get more data points to prove this, like time to every 1km altitude interval. The visually interesting thing is that at high altitude the La~7 needs to lower nose much more then 109K. La loses power faster with altitude than 109K.

So I fail test pilot school. I'm ready to get back to the Front Line map anyway.

----------------

Here is the mission I used in FMB


[MAIN]
MAP Kursk/load.ini
TIME 12.0
CloudType 1
CloudHeight 1500.0
player g0100
army 2
playerNum 0
[Wing]
g0100
[g0100]
Planes 1
Skill 1
Class air.BF_109K4
Fuel 100
weapons default
[g0100_Way]
NORMFLY 180000.05 90000.15 50.00 250.00
NORMFLY 9751.25 90000.29 50.00 250.00
[NStationary]
[Buildings]
[Bridge]
[House]

Actually, doing this was kinda fun, different in a way. Very different. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Message Edited on 11/01/0305:45AM by LEXX_Luthor

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 03:10 PM
~Yawn~

Just woke up and after 7 hours, an old analog wall clock kept Fb109K4 cockpit time with a loss of 1 seconde. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Pretty darn good, and I was surprised.

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 05:33 AM
A rather large problem exists in your test. Which is the fact that a 109 has pretty much automatic engine managment, where in the La it requires the supercharger to be stage changed, also requires changes to be made to the mixture level. Prop pitch is not so important rather just another variable but at altitude the la is Just as good as a 109 at climbing as long as proper engine managment exists.

People tend to complain a lot about Axis aircraft, but that is simply because they do not fly them as they are meant too be flown, they fly them all as if they were zero's. which is, without needing to be said, the reason why most of them get frustrated.

S!
Keep up the testing
Regards
WTE_Goat.