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View Full Version : Praise "Devs" blame management



nllsq
09-30-2015, 01:04 PM
Both major kinds of complaint-worthy problems, 1) game-breaking bugs and 2) design choices that show an attempt to cut corners, come from the same common reason: management is trying to "cut costs" by investing as little as possible in the product. This results in not enough work-hours put in the game. The problem is not incompetence or unwillingness of developers to to their job because I am sure that Ubisoft has access to a large pool of excellent applicants.

Please, before it is too late, hire more people and let the team concentrate on bringing the product to the state where it should be! A boat that leaks is useless, regardless of how much time one has spent on building it. It becomes useful only when one fixes the leak. Similarly, a game that fails to satisfy the customer is no good regardless of how the budged for its making has been utilized - it is all sunk cost. What it takes is to put the extra money, time, and effort to make the game enjoyable so that more people buy it and later come for more.

DanonMight
09-30-2015, 09:37 PM
They might start making polished and actually more than average/good games. But for that to happen we would have to stop buying them, becouse if money is ok why the hell they would want to change anything in their strategy/developement process. Watch dogs was crap, unity was a bugfest, now this and probably new ANNO going to be terrible as well. Sales still nice though

Karastrasza
09-30-2015, 11:04 PM
Just to paint an example, in my first 5 minutes of starting the game and going into the first campaign mission, I noticed:

1) Story NPCs were talking with their mouths wide open instead of moving. (on a pretty standard PC / GPU setup)
2) Major, Word-2003-spellcheck-level typos in mission descriptions.
3) My character's first quote, before even taking the first turn: "The tediousness of this task, will be as boring as the journey." (yes, even with the improperly placed comma.)

This piles on top of all sorts of more significant and elaborate critiques I had in earlier posts, but sadly this is the way of modern game development. I do mostly blame the bureaucracy of corner-cutting management and an insufficiently strong hand of true, artistic direction - we see it in major companies & titles like last year's World of Warcraft expansion that led a huge % of subscribers to leave, as well as Elder Scrolls Online in which ZOS had a single composer do almost the entire soundtrack plus be lead audio director - but there's another point to be made, I feel.

I love Jon Van Caneghem's games and ethic, and I'm sorry to say it, but he kind of has the opposite problem George Lucas had with being too heavy-handed in the Star Wars prequels. I listened to his interview on the MMH7 blog, and I really think he should reconsider his philosophy of not playing the Heroes games while they're in development. He might be the integral player who can come back and mastercraft everything so that it makes as much sense as it did in the Heroes 1-3 days.

In the meantime, I can't really see VII going anywhere, and it seems, most of those with nostalgia or the ability to see what's missing would agree.

leverite
10-01-2015, 06:21 PM
Just wanted to chime in quick here too. The OP basically nailed it. While it's pointless to point fingers and who's fault this development & launch really lies with; I would personally lean towards this being a publisher rush job based on what we've seen. I'm sure Limbic is not completely void of fault either, however I get the impression that they did the best they could with what was available.

The best thing that we can do as a community to send a message to the publisher that releasing unfinished games is not ok! We can do this most effectively by opting for refunds. When the time is right, and the game is actually finished use your discretion and decide to purchase it at the point.

throvolos
10-01-2015, 06:24 PM
The best thing that we can do as a community to send a message to the publisher that releasing unfinished games is not ok! We can do this most effectively by opting for refunds. When the time is right, and the game is actually finished use your discretion and decide to purchase it at the point.

Which is why, as buyers, we have the power to
a) Not buy a game
b) Wait a month or longer after a game is released
c) Complain on the forums
d) Buy and play with all its warts
e) any of the above

I very rarely buy games at release any more, for that very reason. This is one of the very few games I've pre-purchased.

But please give Limbic a break. There's only so much testing they can do prior to release. No software is ever released without bugs.

Mescalamba2015
10-01-2015, 09:21 PM
Which is why, as buyers, we have the power to
a) Not buy a game
b) Wait a month or longer after a game is released
c) Complain on the forums
d) Buy and play with all its warts
e) any of the above

I very rarely buy games at release any more, for that very reason. This is one of the very few games I've pre-purchased.

But please give Limbic a break. There's only so much testing they can do prior to release. No software is ever released without bugs.

I agree that this most likely isnt devs fault, but Ubisoft being moneyhuggers like any other big company (to name a few supergreedy ones.. Blizzard-Activision, EA). Blizzard managed to almost kill Diablo games with what they done and they are on very good track to kill WoW (which was their main source of income for years). Some customers need to be burned repeatedly till they get "you shouldnt buy games from them", some need it only twice.

For example DICE and EA is dead to me after BF4. I dont care whatever they will release, even if it was supergood. They simply ended for me.

Blizzard is currently trying to make their customers angry especially with the "new" MOBA they made (Heroes of the Storm). Just check feedback forums. Reason is as usually, being greedy as much as they can. Diablo 3 was ruined by their greed (which eventually ended in firing probably whole team and first expansion was actually very good fix and game is quite playable, not great tho).

Cost cutting on this game is so painfully obvious. Nearly no animations (only cheapest possible way to do them), DX9 engine (on what it runs, UE3? looks like something from prehistory of gaming). Not mentioning that its probably worst choice for turn based game I ever saw. They could probably choose Q3 engine and update it and it would looked the same, but worked much faster.

Whats also visible is quite a bit of love (or passion) for HoMaM series from devs. I can see that people which made this really tried hard to make fans happy, some things despite not always working as they should are quite clever. But they didnt have enough time, people and money. That much is sure. And released some last stable (or semi-stable) beta. This game needed more like 6 months of cooking and fixing (polishing) to be released.

And Im pretty confident that its all Ubisoft fault, not Limbic. Unlike DICE case, which has problem not only with EA but with them being simply sucky at their jobs.

Not sure any of this solves anything tho.. Probably just not buying this game.


By the way, Limbic, next time you want to make something like this (no, HoMaM game doesnt need to be named "Heroes of Might and Magic" to work and get fans), try crowdfunding. I "pre-bought" last Divinity game actually even before it was made. And I can say that game is amazingly well done. Its not perfect, but its much better than anything from "big names" (or big money huggers) of gaming industry.

ArqaneX
10-02-2015, 03:23 AM
I agree that this most likely isnt devs fault, but Ubisoft being moneyhuggers like any other big company.

But this is why it isn't just Ubi, though they're clearly a large part of it. It's just as much on the lead designer. They aimed higher than the resources allowed. It comes down to the very first decisions on the game, and I saw the same on M&M 10. Why did they decide to aim for a high resolution 3d world (while still keeping it strictly on a grid)? That takes major resources. Sure, it's 2015, and people think that a game needs to look great to sell... but look at how well a lot of indie games are doing. And compare the complexity of M&M 10 with the combined World of Xeen. There's *tons* more things to do in World of Xeen. And they even added an extra large scenario that probably only took them a couple weeks to put together, because building whole new worlds in a 2d environment just takes that much less resource support.

They need to start with the game first instead of the look they want. Aim reasonably, then add flair and make the thing rock solid, and you'll have an amazingly high selling game. Especially with a franchise like M&M.

Loup-Solitaire
10-02-2015, 07:17 AM
The best thing that we can do as a community to send a message to the publisher that releasing unfinished games is not ok! We can do this most effectively by opting for refunds. When the time is right, and the game is actually finished use your discretion and decide to purchase it at the point.

It may work for a company with only a few licenses available or for a major license...Do this with Assassin's Creed and,yes,Ubisoft may think "well,it's time to give them more resources and time";do this with HoMM or MM and it will probably be "well,it's time to stop wasting money by producing games in these licenses"...

GMnemonic
10-02-2015, 12:51 PM
Right on nllsq it radiates everywhere. Bad adventure map bad scale, menus drawn by a 9 year old, model reuse, no creature abbilities or copy paste, less skill spells, everywhere.

Not too mention the new resources are stupid unoriginal with childisch names they should have sticked to the old ones.

leverite
10-02-2015, 06:05 PM
It may work for a company with only a few licenses available or for a major license...Do this with Assassin's Creed and,yes,Ubisoft may think "well,it's time to give them more resources and time";do this with HoMM or MM and it will probably be "well,it's time to stop wasting money by producing games in these licenses"...

You make a very good point sadly. I would hope that getting a refund would send a clearer message rather than a customer simply not purchasing. However you're probably right; at that level it would probably just be seen as less revenue. Makes me sad, no one wants to see heroes die.

KaynaCrous
10-02-2015, 08:48 PM
I cannot blame Limbic for this mess of a game launch. They know Ubisoft are finance sharks and must act in consequence. The previous H6 publisher, blue hole, went bankrupt doing what Ubisoft wanted them to do. The only one to blame here is Ubisuck.

MrD69
10-03-2015, 06:16 PM
If you seen the latest FB post, devs are done doing much more with the game. They are over the top excited with their broken creation and will continue to play it instead of finishing it. :(