PDA

View Full Version : Idea to reslove the stand-alone/add-on discussion



avimimus
05-27-2004, 11:47 AM
Why not release it as a stand alone product and then have an expansion to PF, which adds the capability to import Il-2 aircraft and some maps into PF and includes a few pacific combination maps (eg. Chinese or Manchurian maps) and maybe a Malta or Atlantic map with the Ark Royal.

This would allow for the release of:

Pacific Fighters
Pacific Fighters Add-on (with aircraft imported from Il-2 and possibly requiring ownership of Il-2)
Pacific Fighters/Il-2:Forgotten Battles platinum edition (with the two being fully compatible in the FMB but each having its own QMB).

This could allow for the release of more products and the gathering of more profits and it also neatly justifies limited continued importing of aircraft into Il-2 (past the date when support is cut-off) and the inclusion/development of new maps covering the Japanese-Russian wars and possibly branching into Asia and the Middle east (maybe even someday Africa or Malta)

avimimus
05-27-2004, 11:47 AM
Why not release it as a stand alone product and then have an expansion to PF, which adds the capability to import Il-2 aircraft and some maps into PF and includes a few pacific combination maps (eg. Chinese or Manchurian maps) and maybe a Malta or Atlantic map with the Ark Royal.

This would allow for the release of:

Pacific Fighters
Pacific Fighters Add-on (with aircraft imported from Il-2 and possibly requiring ownership of Il-2)
Pacific Fighters/Il-2:Forgotten Battles platinum edition (with the two being fully compatible in the FMB but each having its own QMB).

This could allow for the release of more products and the gathering of more profits and it also neatly justifies limited continued importing of aircraft into Il-2 (past the date when support is cut-off) and the inclusion/development of new maps covering the Japanese-Russian wars and possibly branching into Asia and the Middle east (maybe even someday Africa or Malta)

Chuck_Older
05-27-2004, 12:14 PM
Of course, you realise that what you're saying is that instead of making PF an FB add-on, you make FB a PF add-on.


What's the advantage? To do that, you'd have to make sure the game engine is compatible, so on one hand, you're just calling a tomato a to-MAH-to, and on the other, you've restricted a new game's engine to be retro-compatible with another one.

It's a lose-lose situation, if you don't mind me saying so. A whole lot of effort for the same old problems seen from the other perspective.

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

actionhank1786
05-27-2004, 12:39 PM
I personally find the "Get over it" method best. I like your suggestion, but it's already been decided. I think if people dont like it, they should go home, write in their diary's and get over it
~Aaron

rpkiller
05-27-2004, 12:50 PM
I for one think this is a good idea. Maybe in each patch/addon a few old favourites from FB can be brought along with some all new marvelous models. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rp

LEXX_Luthor
05-27-2004, 01:40 PM
Another point -- if Oleg dumps FB then Luthier can Patch in planes for the FP/FB simmers. Hopefully he can find a way to make us PAY. It would be worth it.

I~15 is in progress at netwings. Historically it is just as suited for FP as for FB.

DuxCorvan
05-27-2004, 02:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I~15 is in progress at netwings. Historically it is just as suited for FP as for FB.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And for a Spanish Civil War scenario. Early stuff, crappy biplanes, experimental warfare, world wide aircraft technology, international German, Italian and Soviet intervention, Soviet aces not purged by Stalin, pre-WW2 Blue vs Red air war, volunteers from US, UK and France... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

But that's dreaming too much... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

F19_Orheim
05-27-2004, 02:21 PM
gaaaaa Spanish Cicil War.. "droooool"

I still dream of a crappy 30ish sim..
Jus Imagine Flying
THESE!! (http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/SpainAir.htm)
Drooooool

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

ESPECIALLY the Belanca...... WOW!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/Media/Bellanca2870.gif

http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19bannerA.jpg
http://216.12.202.106/~f19vs/F19banner.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
05-27-2004, 05:08 PM
Dux:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And for a Spanish Civil War scenario. Early stuff, crappy biplanes, experimental warfare, world wide aircraft technology, international German, Italian and Soviet intervention, Soviet aces not purged by Stalin, pre-WW2 Blue vs Red air war, volunteers from US, UK and France... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

But that's dreaming too much... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes! SPAIN involves every aircraft designing nation in the world, with pilots from every flying nation in the world...except Japan, but a Mongolia/China addon Pack could fix that thus all people would be represented world wide in One Sim...a flight sim first.

And No Sim has ever had Bf~109B, C, and D....ever notice teh LuftWhiners are never interested in pre~Email 109s. They Hate the Luftwaffe. I wonder why

DuxCorvan
05-31-2004, 03:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
And No Sim has ever had Bf~109B, C, and D....ever notice teh LuftWhiners are never interested in pre~Email 109s. They Hate the Luftwaffe. _I wonder _why__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe because Bf 109B was a sitting duck for Spanish rebuilt and Wright-Cyclone re-engined late I-16s? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

269GA-Maxmars
05-31-2004, 04:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Dux::
ever notice teh LuftWhiners are never interested in pre~Email 109s<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought ALL 109s pre-dated the invention of e-mail? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

LEXX_Luthor
05-31-2004, 06:52 AM
Luftwaffe was the first to use Email.

mmm, Dux, I read something about a dozen of those re~engined I~16s beating up Bf~109s at high altitude.

...basically, pre~Email versions are proper Bf109s, anything in FB is Fb109 (all the Noob versions)...I have ~never~ used the Fb suffix for Berthas, Claras, or Doras. This natural naming convention clarifies 60 years of confusion.

DuxCorvan
05-31-2004, 07:05 AM
They were called 'nariz fr├┬*a' -this is 'cold nose'- because of prop spinner being painted white, to distinguish them.

They were like naming devil for 109B pilots, and more than a challenge for later 109 types, including Emils. And, by then, Spanish pilots -trained by pre-Stalin-purge Russian crews- had even more combat experience than LW aces.

Soviet officer pilots coming back to USSR were purged, confined or 'coffined' by Stalin, and the VVS was beheaded of their best and most experienced pilots -hence losing all tactical innovation and lessons learned in Spain and China.

The rest is History. LW SCW veterans eating the VVS newbies, trained by newbies -in aircraft maintained also by newbies- with mashed potatoes, and the myth of VVS planes being substantially inferior.

Interesting age, when WW1 air war phylosophy evolutioned to WW2 standards -Spanish Civil War began with Breguet XIX and Nieuport 62 crappy aircraft being used by both sides. And we're losing it... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

LEXX_Luthor
05-31-2004, 01:48 PM
mmm, I only heard about it here, the author calls it Mega Mosca http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ...

(Part 3) http://www.brushfirewars.org/aircraft/polikarpov_i-16/polikarpov_i-16_3.htm <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>6.3 - Moscas on steroids, 4a Escuadrillia's "Mega Moscas"

The title "Mega Mosca" is, as far as I know my, own invention and not one that was used to describe these aircraft during the Spanish Civil war or at any later point in time. While it is perhaps wrong to talk about Spanish manufactured aircraft in this case, the modifications made to these Soviet built I-16 type 10s were nevertheless radical enough to effectively constitute a new "type" of I-16.

The story of these aircraft began when agents of the Republican government managed to covertly obtain 24 Wright Cyclone SGR 1820 F-54 engines (9). This engine was better supercharged and therefore possessed much better high altitude performance than the basic M-25 series engine (Writght Cyclone SGR 1820-F3) that powered the standard I-16. In August of 1938 12 of these engines were built into twelve Soviet built I-16's while the remaining engines were held in reserve. The aircraft were then issued to 4a Escuadrillia. Soon the aircraft were additionally equipped with oxygen gear for the pilot and proved capable of operating efficiently at over 8000 meters. At these altitudes temperatures went down to -40 degrees Celsius and the frost caused the guns to jam because the oil became thick and sticky at such low temperatures. This problem was finally solved by 4a Escuadrillia's technical officer J.A. Lopez Smith in a quite ingenious manner. Smith modified the I-16's with air hoses that vented filtered exhaust air into the gun chambers to warm up the guns. This measure proved effective and the Mega Moscas were soon ready for action. It must have come as a mild shock to the Nazi pilots of the Legion Condor who had become used to the relative safety they enjoyed at high altitudes to be attacked from above by Republican fighters. Even if the Mega Moscas were too few in number to pose a permanent threat to the Bf-109 the effect of their appearance on the morale of the Condor Legion pilots must have been significant. The Nazi pilots could no longer afford to be complacent and neglect "checking their six", even at the high altitudes where they had previously been next to untouchable. Testimony to the effectiveness of the Mega Mosca is provided in the diary of Nazi German Fighter ace Werner M├┬Âlders. The Nazi ace wrote the following passage into his diary after he and his men to their surprise encountered a new and potent Republican fighter in the fierce air battles over the Ebro during the last days of October 1938:

"....the war was again blazing in full fury. Today, a new enemy aircraft plunged into the battle - quite speedy and with an excellent rate of climb. They came up over 8000 meters after us, using the same tactics as we did, but not pressing their attack as aggressively as German pilots would if we had our enemies by the nose! Nevertheless, some of our pilots, after being attacked by such opponents, were lucky to return to base safely, with only a few hits." (10)

This makes the above statement, penned by one of histories most important fighter tacticians and an outstanding fighter pilot (11), a compelling argument for the the contention that the disproportionately high losses the regular M-25 powered Moscas suffered in combat with the Bf-109 B and D over Spain were very much the result of inferior high altitude performance. Although this inferiority in performance was also compounded by a shortage of trained and experienced pilots in the ranks or FARE squadrons and a certain lack of aggressiveness. Superior German tactics also played a role.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DuxCorvan
05-31-2004, 05:23 PM
'Mosca' -'Fly'- was the name given by Republicans to all their I-16. It's a word joke from the Russian word 'MOCKBA' -Moskva, Moscow- that was in the boxes when the planes arrived Spain, and the tiny look of the aircraft itself. 'Rata' -'Rat'- was a despective name used by Nationalists.

I read the data in that site. Impressive as it is, I e-mailed the author to tell him of true nick of the plane, 'Nariz fr├┬*a', and more data. But I never had an answer.

BTW, almost all Republican 'Mosca' skins in Il2skins are of re-engined I-16s, such as that with 'Popeye' and that with a domino tile. Re-engined I-16s resembled type 24s a lot.

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.