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ianboys
09-11-2004, 01:57 AM
.... a tail gunner.

This plane just has "victim" painted all over it. What's the point of it?

I guess against a MUCH slower aircraft like an early Zero it has its uses, but otherwise?

ianboys
09-11-2004, 01:57 AM
.... a tail gunner.

This plane just has "victim" painted all over it. What's the point of it?

I guess against a MUCH slower aircraft like an early Zero it has its uses, but otherwise?

XperiAnce_ZA
09-11-2004, 02:29 AM
Ooooo and lets put a Jet on the 109 and how about flyable ships?

Dude u cant change history just to make the game more balanced... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

You're just gonna have to accept the fact that it didnt have one... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v292/t0n2004/xp0101.gif

Resident_Jock
09-11-2004, 02:30 AM
You haven't seen people like BAMBOO fly it on Warclouds...

I used to be decent in it but I took a liking to the spit and then the P47.

Also, XperiAnce, I guess you've never heard of sarcasm?

http://thecasualty.homestead.com/files/resident_siggy.jpg

XperiAnce_ZA
09-11-2004, 02:34 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/351.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v292/t0n2004/xp0101.gif

Resident_Jock
09-11-2004, 02:40 AM
Yes, I am indeed with stupid.
Probably the most overused smily on this whole site, btw. That and the hammer guy. What ever happened to the simplicity of a good old http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif or :/ or even D:

P.S.- You http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif the http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gifing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif, man!
http://thecasualty.homestead.com/files/resident_siggy.jpg

XperiAnce_ZA
09-11-2004, 02:43 AM
Just yankin ur chain m8 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I love these forum lol, People here drink way to much coffie coz everyone makes snappy remarks lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v292/t0n2004/xp0101.gif

p1ngu666
09-11-2004, 02:54 AM
u can fly a p38 successfully, god knows how tho :\
43 its ok tho.

makes me a lil worried about mossie http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123>NO SPAM!
<badsight>my name is tracy and pingu is the Anitchrist of Combat Flight Simmers
<lexx_luthor>flowers across the land in BoB

Aaron_GT
09-11-2004, 06:07 AM
Ian,
Maybe you could ask Oleg for a special field mod with the .50 gun pods pointing backwards?

WOLFMondo
09-11-2004, 07:28 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

What a great new addition to the P38's arsenal.While Oleg is making these changes can he give the P47 a rear gunner in a turret and maybe a belly gunner or ball turret.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)

AlexDavies
09-11-2004, 07:36 AM
give the hurricane a rear gunner then call it the boulton paul defiant

http://www.jsutergraphix.com/portfolio%20art/P-47.jpg

Wemic
09-11-2004, 08:33 AM
Umm...one reply is needed: Richard Bong.

Wemic

Politicians are like diapers...they have to be changed frequently and always for the same reason.
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Mackane1
09-11-2004, 09:19 AM
I've found the P-38 to be quite successful online...it's my favorite ride! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://home.si.rr.com/skywolf/MACKANE.jpg

JG54_Arnie
09-11-2004, 09:51 AM
Very nice plane. Especially to waste zero´s with. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

---------------------------
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WUAF_WarWeapon2
09-11-2004, 09:58 AM
Well.. We can say safely that someone is a nOOb. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Maple_Tiger
09-11-2004, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Ian,
Maybe you could ask Oleg for a special field mod with the .50 gun pods pointing backwards?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Now that is bloody hilarias.

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.
-----------------------------
The more less you'r travelling, the further back in time you go.


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but not quite there.
I am near,
Come if you dare.

9th_Bloodfist
09-11-2004, 10:20 AM
Can we add force fields to it as well? OOOOH and how bout making the missles laser guided and giving it smart bombs? And while were at it let make the wings rotate upwards so it can hover, that would be pretty sweet. And for a final touch we could give it jamaican markings and paint it hot pink!!!

http://www.lordsofwar.com/public_uploads/Bloodfist/bloodfinishsig.jpg

ianboys
09-11-2004, 10:42 AM
People will take one awfully seriously.

Aaron_GT
09-11-2004, 10:49 AM
The Russians did indeed have a version of the Hurricane with a rear gunner, as it happens!

-HH-Dubbo
09-11-2004, 11:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
The Russians did indeed have a version of the Hurricane with a rear gunner, as it happens!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More information please

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/crashoz.jpg
Brisbane Area Defence, Strathpine Field 2, 11 June 1943

Jaws2002
09-11-2004, 11:45 AM
(Ouote).... a tail gunner.
...Maybe you could ask Oleg for a special field mod with the .50 gun pods pointing backwards?
.....Can we add force fields to it as well? OOOOH and how bout making the missles laser guided and giving it smart bombs? And while were at it let make the wings rotate upwards so it can hover, that would be pretty sweet. And for a final touch we could give it jamaican markings and paint it hot pink!!!(Quote)

Do all that and then I can ask the guys at Penemunde to get my ride ready: http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/Uber2_.jpg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/Uber2sm.jpg

tsisqua
09-11-2004, 12:49 PM
Ian, I don't think that half of these guys know who you are http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

The P-38 was pressed into a role in ETO that had more to do with ground-pounding than it did in PTO. Consequently, you won't find McGuires and Bongs in ETO, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't have existed if their orders had been different. I agree that the in-game P-38 isn't what the real ones probably were, but there are alot of online pilots that will tear you a new a-hole with the Lightning. You need to fly with WUAF_Hero sometime too. One of the best Lightning jocks out there.

Tsisqua

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-bird1.JPG

Tully__
09-11-2004, 12:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ianboys:
People will take one awfully seriously.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Go on Ian vent some more, it's clear you've had a rough day in the office and if anyone deserves a little "venting room" on this forum it's you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

=================================================


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Salut
Tully

ianboys
09-11-2004, 01:00 PM
Thanks chaps http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Gotta love all the guys going STFU Noob http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tttiger
09-11-2004, 01:01 PM
Actually, Tully, it sems more of a troll than a vent. "Light the fuse and run" is a sure sign. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But it's good to see Ian is still among us. One of the most talented members of this community.

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

GAU-8
09-11-2004, 01:10 PM
I GOTTA agree with RESIDENT JOCK.


BAMBOO! the quiet, gentle guy on comms... with the heart of a mass murderer online.

ill say it again... B A M B O O

i dont hear HIM complain

Korolov
09-11-2004, 01:13 PM
The ETO is pretty much the only theatre that the P-38 didn't do well in, and to emphasize with Tsisqua, their use at high altitudes of 30,000ft/9100m and higher was a pain in the @$$. Pilots got way too cold in the cockpit due to insufficient cockpit heat, windows would fog up, etc. Despite being built for high altitude, it seemed that it was better down low because it was warmer and there were less failures. The engines were overcooled and this created constant intercooler failures.

In the other theatres, it was a completely different story. The air was much warmer in the PTO and MTO, and the altitude pilots flew at was lower than in the ETO. In the MTO, both sides considered the P-38 a much better turning plane than the 109s and 190s in the theatre. This doesn't hold true for the italian planes of course, but those planes were rarely fast enough to catch the P-38. It's pretty easy to find info on the P-38 performance in this region.

In the PTO - no contest, but the plane had to be used correctly. Turning would get you killed (despite many pilots claiming otherwise, I say they're full of baloney) so shoot and scoot became the order of the day. The Zeke and Oscar couldn't counter this move as they didn't have the speed or dive strength to catch the P-38. Moreso, the P-38 was a tougher plane, so it could take multiple hits before it ran out of luck - which was not so for the Zeke.

Outside of real life, in FB it's a bit of a toss up. You aren't going to outrun anything thats later than '43, and you definately won't outturn 109s. So this leaves the shoot and scoot approach the only effective means for the P-38. It's altitude performance in 2.04 is rather destroyed, so above 7500m you're pushing your luck. It will work well at lower altitudes as long as it maintains a state of advantage - if someone manages to get on your 6 while flying a P-38, the only option you have is to dive away. Any other manuver just makes you a easier target, what with the huge profile the P-38 has from the top and bottom.

The P-38 strives to have the advantage of surprise, and given that I fly on servers that give hard settings, this makes the use of the P-38 for me a lot easier. On other servers you have to fall back on other means, since you don't have the same surprise advantage. On servers like this, teamwork is the best way to operate.

She's a hard bird to fly, but no doubt about it, quite rewarding.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

Tooz_69GIAP
09-11-2004, 01:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HH_Dubbo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
The Russians did indeed have a version of the Hurricane with a rear gunner, as it happens!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More information please

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/crashoz.jpg
Brisbane Area Defence, Strathpine Field 2, 11 June 1943<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That guy is right. It was a field mod of the Hurricane and was used as an artillery spotter/recon aircraft. I don't remember if it had a gun in the rear cockpit, but I think I remember seeing a photo of a Hurricane with one of those big cameras. It was replaced by the recon version of the IL-2, if memory serves.

I'll see if I can dig up a pic of it.

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
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Za Rodinu!
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Daiichidoku
09-11-2004, 01:41 PM
Geez, what DOESN'T the 38 need in FB?

The compressability needs to be pushed back another 100 kph...

Too bad about the torque...and yes, Virginia (pingu666) there IS going to be a torque-mangled mossie...may as well start to deal with it now, so you aren't as dissapointed when it does get here...

I imagine ANY twin in the FB engine will be dissapointing, too bad, with so many great twins that would be nice to have...He 219, Do 225, Westland Whirlwind...

Maybe if we got the XP 58 Swordfish we would get something a little closer to the 38s real performance in FB...thats it! make a XP 58 and just call it a 38 for FB

gorillasika
09-11-2004, 02:45 PM
Your wish is my command...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/gorillasika/p38.jpg

Jaws2002
09-11-2004, 02:53 PM
Now we're talking. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/Uber2sm.jpg

AlexDavies
09-11-2004, 03:00 PM
how can you do this? and where can i get the rear gunner lightning and super-262? i don't care if rivet counters shout at me because it's so cool!!! sweet. now all i need is a nightfighter bf110 with all those bristle radar!

http://www.jsutergraphix.com/portfolio%20art/P-47.jpg

ianboys
09-11-2004, 03:22 PM
Words fail me.

p1ngu666
09-11-2004, 03:47 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt;NO SPAM!
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&lt;lexx_luthor&gt;flowers across the land in BoB

Korolov
09-11-2004, 03:59 PM
Those MG81Z's are overmodeled.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

Buster82
09-11-2004, 04:56 PM
i've been saying it for years, and the proof is finally given. the P-38 design is a copy of the Fokker G-1, only worse. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif just see for yourself http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/gorillasika/p38.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v364/Rockstar82/FokkerG-1.jpg

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_euro_us_02.gif

[This message was edited by Buster82 on Sat September 11 2004 at 04:29 PM.]

jensenpark
09-11-2004, 06:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GAU-8:
I GOTTA agree with RESIDENT JOCK.


BAMBOO! the quiet, gentle guy on comms... with the heart of a mass murderer online.

ill say it again... B A M B O O

i dont hear HIM complain<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! I love that..."with the heart of a mass murderer"...classic.

And yea, I'd have to agree with that assessment.

http://www.corsair-web.com/thistler/rtfoxint.jpg
Buzz Beurling flying his last sortie over Malta, Oct.24, 1942

-dying non-stop online as silverdart

WereSnowleopard
09-11-2004, 08:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HH_Dubbo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
The Russians did indeed have a version of the Hurricane with a rear gunner, as it happens!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More information please

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hello mate, check this link. http://www.il2center.com/Allied/UK/05/41.jpg

Actually that plane used to be two seater dual controls trainer as VVS made it's rear seater into defensive rear gunner.

Have fun time play IL2.

Cheers
Snowloepard

[This message was edited by WereSnowleopard on Sat September 11 2004 at 07:32 PM.]

WUAF_WarWeapon2
09-11-2004, 09:46 PM
well.. if you want a tail-gunner on a P-38 I want 6 ON MY IL-2 also.. Could Oleg PWEAAAASE add heat seaking missles, guided bombs and tons of glitches and slow downs!?! (LOMAC pun) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Maj_Death
09-11-2004, 09:58 PM
ianboys should be banned...for ditching us. Damn traitor http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Way to suck in the noobies mate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif. Anyways welcome back, we missed ya'.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spelling mistakes left in intentionally to annoy tttiger.

Maj_Death here, I/JG1_Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VWF and may join other online wars in the future. I am currently the acting CO, if you are interested in joining please PM me here or page me in HL.
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WUAF_Badsight
09-11-2004, 10:39 PM
i dont think hes going to be a regular Maj Death lol , i think this was a "test" of what UBI's FB forum is like http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

WUAF_WarWeapon . . . . . the forum member " ianboys " actually helps with the development of things for FB

hes been working with this game since IL2:Sturmovik . . . . . . ie , hes not new . . . .

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WTE_Galway
09-11-2004, 10:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AlexDavies:
give the hurricane a rear gunner then call it the boulton paul defiant

http://www.jsutergraphix.com/portfolio%20art/P-47.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ah you knocking the Boulton Paul Defiant
??

masterpiece of British engineering that was http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WUAF_WarWeapon2
09-11-2004, 10:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i dont think hes going to be a regular Maj Death lol , i think this was a "test" of what UBI's FB forum is like http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

WUAF_WarWeapon . . . . . the forum member " ianboys " actually helps with the development of things for FB

hes been working with this game since IL2:Sturmovik . . . . . . ie , hes not new . . . .

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I.... WAS... JOKING... GET... MY... DRIFT?!

AlexDavies
09-12-2004, 04:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AlexDavies:
give the hurricane a rear gunner then call it the boulton paul defiant

http://www.jsutergraphix.com/portfolio%20art/P-47.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ah you knocking the Boulton Paul Defiant
??

masterpiece of British engineering that was http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
no, you'll see me flying the hurricane quite a lot(with the excellent mcknight skin) and i thought that how much the defiant looks like a hurricane, it would be very easy to do. i'm not sure, but i think the defiant was an excellent nightfighter.

http://www.jsutergraphix.com/portfolio%20art/P-47.jpg

XperiAnce_ZA
09-12-2004, 06:09 AM
(with the excellent mcknight skin)

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/354.gif

Share the love m8 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v292/t0n2004/xp0101.gif

DuxCorvan
09-12-2004, 06:46 AM
Oh yes, what P-38 needs is about half ton more weight (gunner seat) to improve its performance... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

BTW, I think Ianboys was yet in these forums when RBJ did let his brow grow, back in 1977. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Hunter82
09-12-2004, 06:48 AM
OMG hook line and sinker http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ianboys:
.... a tail gunner.

This plane just has "victim" painted all over it. What's the point of it?

I guess against a MUCH slower aircraft like an early Zero it has its uses, but otherwise?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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AlexDavies
09-12-2004, 07:13 AM
http://www.aeroplaneart.com.au/Images/JSJ_Boulton_Paul_Defiant_I.jpg

http://www.jsutergraphix.com/portfolio%20art/P-47.jpg

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
09-12-2004, 07:40 AM
well the defiant is a useless plane, since it's performance will no allow it to overtake an enmy fighter and "hover" at his 3'clock to use it's turret (it had no forward fixed guns)

and BTW the turret was unable to fire to the 6'clock position....

maybe when mixed with hurris but i highly doubt it...

http://home.arcor.de/sebastianleitiger/other%20Stuff/we%20rule%20your%20world3.jpg (http://www.hell-hounds.de)

WereSnowleopard
09-12-2004, 01:38 PM
Actually, Boulton Paul Defiant work so well against bombers even during night. My guess company B.P. just play around and experiment around on different ideas even WOWing to Military that Generals may want play with them and show off fancy stuff to world without though that they will end up in war.

Ah....why not try P-61? it already have turret guns (actually, early model have problem control so make them fixed to fire foward. Funny, design gun turret for P-61 is not only for defensive but for offensive against enemy.
Is that one only kind of plane P-61 in WWII with turret for main offensive attacking?

Cheers
Snowleopard

VF-10_Snacky
09-12-2004, 04:07 PM
Nobody complains about the P38 more than I do and I will be the first to admit that, but like any aircraft the more you fly it the more comfortable you feel in it. I have gotten to the point where I accept the fact that in arcade servers I will not be able to use the strengths of the P38 because of the all seeing eye view we call externals.
There are a lot of people and squads who have as thier main tactic to sit at 8000m and just simply watch external views for aircraft trying to climb so they always maintain the height advantage. This is the reason why they only hang out in these arcade servers and dont fly in realism servers like Greatergreen or warclouds.
If you want to have a chance in the P38 you will need a good wingman and play in a server that does not allow cheat views. just my opinion of course.
I fly the arcade servers all the time, but I also realize that the person who found me all the way across the map did not use any skill to do so but just cycled through a external view so it really means nothing. They can talk a lot of smack and throw thier ego around all they want, but in the end they are needing external views in a arcade server.lol

Fly both types of servers, you will see the difference.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/home_to.jpg
"Up there the world is divided into bastards and suckers. Make your choice."

" Derek Robinson, 'Piece of Cake.'

Korolov
09-12-2004, 04:16 PM
Actually, I think someone else gets the award for "most vocal whiner about the P-38..."

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

WTE_Galway
09-12-2004, 06:28 PM
actually the traditionaly boulton paul night fighter technique was a sort of reverse vulch

they would haover around the german airfields until the he111 returned and were on finals with gear and flaps out and no room to manouvre and then pop up in front of them and blast the cockpit with the turrent

ImpStarDuece
09-12-2004, 06:33 PM
What the P-38 really needs is ....

1. A nose that doesn't slew around like a elephant on rollerskates when ever you fire

2. People who know how to fly the damned thing.

Its a bit of a hard plane to master but flying the J offling is a heap of fun. Like any plane in IL2, practice and patience bring their own dividends.

ImpStarDuece,

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"...war is nothing but the continuation of policy with other means."
- Carl von Clauswitz (1827)

LuftWulf190
09-12-2004, 07:13 PM
Ya know, I used to think the P-38 was an easy target too....

That was untill I was in Warclouds server in my good old Dora, and I bounced two P-38s. Turnews out that the bounced me harder!

Now I am very very wary on taking on a Lightning.

VF-10_Snacky
09-12-2004, 07:40 PM
Well I will continue to fly the P38 and I dont care if i get blasted 100 times. It's that one time I get to blast some goober in a LA7 that makes it all worth it.lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/home_to.jpg
"Up there the world is divided into bastards and suckers. Make your choice."

" Derek Robinson, 'Piece of Cake.'

PBNA-Boosher
09-12-2004, 07:45 PM
mmm.... Goobers...

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

VW-IceFire
09-12-2004, 07:55 PM
I had assumed that most P-38 pilots were relatively happy with the P-38 that we have now...but I guess not.

What sorts of issues are still prevalent?

I did note today, while watching a video that was given to me of the Duxford 1995 airshow, that the Lightning there seemed quite a bit more agile...especially in roll rate (a significant difference it seemed). Obviously the plane is lighter...no ammunition, some unneeded things taken out, but it still was quite a difference.

And just to say that I'm not going crazy the P-47 rolled just like the one we have in 2.04, the Spitfire's rolled and even wobbled (self created term http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) through their acrobatics just like the one I fly in AEP does...but this one was off it seemed.

Also showed off the Yak-11 which seems to have a similar wing to the Yak-9's...and it had a VERY impressive roll and turn rate. Which leads me to believe, at least without any other evidence, that the Yak's are behaving just like they should. It was actually amazing that we're so close http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Still, I took a P-38 out for a spin, and aside from a whole wack of collisions (people like to ram P-38's it seems) I did pretty well...flaming a Yak, a 109, and a FW190 very quickly.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"

Cajun76
09-12-2004, 09:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

What a great new addition to the P38's arsenal.While Oleg is making these changes can he give the P47 a rear gunner in a turret and maybe a belly gunner or ball turret.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
http://www.wolfgaming.net
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's just crazy!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Unless the navigator and the radioman will do double duty as gunners......

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/CajunsSig03.gif (http://www.airwarfare.com/)&lt;Click for Mudmovers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson Hot Shots

VF-10_Snacky
09-12-2004, 11:08 PM
I think the biggest complaint is like you mentioned with agility. There are several pieces of documentation out there showing the P38 to have a roll rate better than most fighters of WWII due to it's power assisted ailerons. Turning ability, especially down low, was unmatched and many 109 pilots were hesitant to get into a turn fight with a P38. Speed is another issue for the P38 in FB. IMO it needs a little more acceleration and climb ability.

The biggy is also the torque effects which were not present on the real P38. It was a very stable aircraft.

Problem I see is the FB engine was never designed for something like the P38 and thats what is holding it back.
Everyone wants thier favorite plane to be the best in this game and what you run into is a "Cry Wolf" type of scenerio. People whine about every little thing in this game to the point where a real issue needs to be fixed (in the case of the P38) it is ignored and clumped in with the everyday whine and cheese.
Sad truth is the P38 will probably never reflect in the game what it was capable of in real life. Too many folks don't want a P38 that reflects its capabilities in the real world.
So what happens next? well we live with it and overcome as usual because saying anything about it get nothing done due to the countless whines of other aircraft.
After all we are talking about a game where B17s and HE111s can do barrel rolls and loops.lol Far from perfect.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I had assumed that most P-38 pilots were relatively happy with the P-38 that we have now...but I guess not.

What sorts of issues are still prevalent?

I did note today, while watching a video that was given to me of the Duxford 1995 airshow, that the Lightning there seemed quite a bit more agile...especially in roll rate (a significant difference it seemed). Obviously the plane is lighter...no ammunition, some unneeded things taken out, but it still was quite a difference.

And just to say that I'm not going crazy the P-47 rolled just like the one we have in 2.04, the Spitfire's rolled and even wobbled (self created term http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) through their acrobatics just like the one I fly in AEP does...but this one was off it seemed.

Also showed off the Yak-11 which seems to have a similar wing to the Yak-9's...and it had a VERY impressive roll and turn rate. Which leads me to believe, at least without any other evidence, that the Yak's are behaving just like they should. It was actually amazing that we're so close http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Still, I took a P-38 out for a spin, and aside from a whole wack of collisions (people like to ram P-38's it seems) I did pretty well...flaming a Yak, a 109, and a FW190 very quickly.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/home_to.jpg
"Up there the world is divided into bastards and suckers. Make your choice."

" Derek Robinson, 'Piece of Cake.'

WUAF_Badsight
09-12-2004, 11:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF-10_Wolf:
It's that one time I get to blast some goober in a LA7 that makes it all worth it.lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


goobers in P-38s are a favourite of mine too !

man we should hook up sometime . . . .

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Korolov
09-12-2004, 11:25 PM
That's exactly my take on the situation, Wolf.

Might as well learn how it flies and do the best you can with it than try to get it changed, because it's NOT going to change no matter what you do.

In most cases, at least. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

VF-10_Snacky
09-12-2004, 11:57 PM
I'm sure you already read most of this, but for those in doubt or wanting to learn more about the P38 and what it is really capable of read this study.
http://home.att.net/~ww2aviation/P-38.html

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/home_to.jpg
"Up there the world is divided into bastards and suckers. Make your choice."

" Derek Robinson, 'Piece of Cake.'

VF-10_Snacky
09-13-2004, 12:08 AM
This actually does occur in FB so it isn't all that bad, but if the torque effects could be corrected I feel the plane would be a lot closer to what it should be.


"The P-38J25-LO and P-38L's were terrific. Roll Rate? Ha! Nothing would roll faster. The dive recovery flaps ameliorated the "compressibility" (Mach limitation) of earlier Lightnings. An added benefit of the dive recovery flaps was their ability to pitch the nose 10-20 degrees "up" momentarily when trying to out turn the Luftwaffe's best, even when using the flap combat position on the selector. Of course the nose "pitch-up" resulted in increased aerodynamic drag, and must be used cautiously. High speed is generally preferred over low speed in combat situations. Properly flown, the Fowler flaps of the P-38 allowed very tight turning radius."

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/home_to.jpg
"Up there the world is divided into bastards and suckers. Make your choice."

" Derek Robinson, 'Piece of Cake.'

Korolov
09-13-2004, 12:13 AM
P-38 will snap out in a turn, like any other aircraft in the game, but after you've flown the Fw-190, then the P-47 since IL-2, and well...

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
09-13-2004, 12:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF-10_Wolf:
An added benefit of the dive recovery flaps was their ability to pitch the nose 10-20 degrees "up" momentarily when trying to out turn the Luftwaffe's best, even when using the flap combat position on the selector.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

this happens in FB



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF-10_Wolf:
Properly flown, the Fowler flaps of the P-38 allowed very tight turning radius."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

this happens in FB

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VMF513_Sandman
09-13-2004, 06:13 AM
how the 109-z flies right now is how the 38 should handle. this bird takes either right or left turns with no change of handling..38 on the other hand, will stall violently trying a left hand turn vs right hand.

takeoff power: 109-z...was at 3k meters in a hell of a hurry. p-38-j(supposedly better engines) seems to take its sweet time gettin to that height. also was wheels in the wells alot sooner than the 38.

dives: 109-z ran up to 700 indicated, shakes a bit after this. easy to pull up with combat flaps only..no trim adjustment. dive made from 4k meters. dive in a 38-j...trim needed to pull out after going over 500 'redline' indicated.
zoom climb: 109-z has at least double the zoom climb capability over the 38.

stall characteristics: 109-z would go into a flat spin only if severely mistreated. 38's will snap stall with ease and its flat spin area is also easy to get into.
fuel load on both planes at 50%, default ammo loadout. shooting in the 109-z doesnt have the nose wobble like the 38's. now wtf is 4x30mm cannons bein more stable than 4x50's and 1x20mm cannon all in the nose. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif this is how the p-38 should behave. the acceleration in a plane that never saw action is incredable; zoom climb, climb rate to alt from takeoff, very manuverable.....wtf. oleg, u cant sit there and tell me u cant model a 'non-torque' aircraft. its very obvious that there is alot of torque in the 38, and practically zero in the 109-z....otherwise, the 109-z would snapstall going to the left just as violently as the 38 does...and this plane doesnt. counter-rotating props on the 38's...BOTH prop's in the 109-z is rolling clockwise. corsair's engines rotated clockwise and their pilots were able to turn alot better to the right than left....vice versa with the zero's who turned alot better left than right.

the 38 is having a grave injustice done to it. this 109-z rolls just as fast if not better than a 'stand alone' 109. go figure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-13-2004, 07:15 AM
LOL...4 page thread...for this?

Congrats Ian. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif


Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

VMF513_Sandman
09-13-2004, 07:40 AM
still needs at least.....11 more to go..hmmm, maybe 12 more, then we'll beat the dispersion thread http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

hawkmeister
09-13-2004, 08:15 AM
My main concern with the 38 is the seemingly low speed at which the elevators become ineffective. It's much worse than I'd expect - especially when compared to even the P-39, P-40, both A6Ms, the Ki-84s, and 109s. Approaching 600KPH it's immovable without extreme trim input. Dive and zoom becomes dive and keep diving - even in low altitude shallow dives.

Is this supported by flight test data?

-Bill

VF-10_Snacky
09-13-2004, 08:20 AM
And if this thread was on the P47 you would be right there helping it to page 25 so can it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
LOL...4 page thread...for this?

Congrats Ian. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif


_Our FB server info:_ http://www.greatergreen.com/il2
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/Corsair%20Sig.jpg
"Up there the world is divided into bastards and suckers. Make your choice."

" Derek Robinson, 'Piece of Cake.'

VF-10_Snacky
09-13-2004, 08:24 AM
I agree the 109z is pure fantasy. As Korolov already said though for those of us who really like the P38 and its reputation all we can do is deal with what we got for now. It's fustrating, but what else can we do? Perhaps when BOB finally reaches us there will be some changes and the P38 will more resemble what it was in real life. That is if there is a P38 in BOB, is there?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF513_Sandman:
how the 109-z flies right now is how the 38 should handle. this bird takes either right or left turns with no change of handling..38 on the other hand, will stall violently trying a left hand turn vs right hand.

takeoff power: 109-z...was at 3k meters in a hell of a hurry. p-38-j(supposedly better engines) seems to take its sweet time gettin to that height. also was wheels in the wells alot sooner than the 38.

dives: 109-z ran up to 700 indicated, shakes a bit after this. easy to pull up with combat flaps only..no trim adjustment. dive made from 4k meters. dive in a 38-j...trim needed to pull out after going over 500 'redline' indicated.
zoom climb: 109-z has at least double the zoom climb capability over the 38.

stall characteristics: 109-z would go into a flat spin only if severely mistreated. 38's will snap stall with ease and its flat spin area is also easy to get into.
fuel load on both planes at 50%, default ammo loadout. shooting in the 109-z doesnt have the nose wobble like the 38's. now wtf is 4x30mm cannons bein more stable than 4x50's and 1x20mm cannon all in the nose. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif this is how the p-38 should behave. the acceleration in a plane that never saw action is incredable; zoom climb, climb rate to alt from takeoff, very manuverable.....wtf. oleg, u cant sit there and tell me u cant model a 'non-torque' aircraft. its very obvious that there is alot of torque in the 38, and practically zero in the 109-z....otherwise, the 109-z would snapstall going to the left just as violently as the 38 does...and this plane doesnt. counter-rotating props on the 38's...BOTH prop's in the 109-z is rolling clockwise. corsair's engines rotated clockwise and their pilots were able to turn alot better to the right than left....vice versa with the zero's who turned alot better left than right.

the 38 is having a grave injustice done to it. this 109-z rolls just as fast if not better than a 'stand alone' 109. go figure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/Corsair%20Sig.jpg
"Up there the world is divided into bastards and suckers. Make your choice."

" Derek Robinson, 'Piece of Cake.'

Daiichidoku
09-13-2004, 12:09 PM
Thank you. I have felt this way a long tim enow, also, its a travesty of a mockery of a sham about the 109Z even being in this game in the first place, let alone that it probably is closer to the real performance of the 38 than what we have now...pure fantasy, straight out of crimson skies, the 109Z....it even states in the data file for it, that the only one that was built, and never flown, was based on the F model 109..the 109Z we have in FB is based on the G model 109, and was never even built! twice removed from a real FM! bug POS that it is, Im glad to see MSOT servers ban this silliness<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF513_Sandman:
how the 109-z flies right now is how the 38 should handle. this bird takes either right or left turns with no change of handling..38 on the other hand, will stall violently trying a left hand turn vs right hand.

takeoff power: 109-z...was at 3k meters in a hell of a hurry. p-38-j(supposedly better engines) seems to take its sweet time gettin to that height. also was wheels in the wells alot sooner than the 38.

dives: 109-z ran up to 700 indicated, shakes a bit after this. easy to pull up with combat flaps only..no trim adjustment. dive made from 4k meters. dive in a 38-j...trim needed to pull out after going over 500 'redline' indicated.
zoom climb: 109-z has at least double the zoom climb capability over the 38.

stall characteristics: 109-z would go into a flat spin only if severely mistreated. 38's will snap stall with ease and its flat spin area is also easy to get into.
fuel load on both planes at 50%, default ammo loadout. shooting in the 109-z doesnt have the nose wobble like the 38's. now wtf is 4x30mm cannons bein more stable than 4x50's and 1x20mm cannon all in the nose. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif this is how the p-38 should behave. the acceleration in a plane that never saw action is incredable; zoom climb, climb rate to alt from takeoff, very manuverable.....wtf. oleg, u cant sit there and tell me u cant model a 'non-torque' aircraft. its very obvious that there is alot of torque in the 38, and practically zero in the 109-z....otherwise, the 109-z would snapstall going to the left just as violently as the 38 does...and this plane doesnt. counter-rotating props on the 38's...BOTH prop's in the 109-z is rolling clockwise. corsair's engines rotated clockwise and their pilots were able to turn alot better to the right than left....vice versa with the zero's who turned alot better left than right.

the 38 is having a grave injustice done to it. this 109-z rolls just as fast if not better than a 'stand alone' 109. go figure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Daiichidoku
09-13-2004, 12:15 PM
Funny, also about the compressability of the 38....ok, it was famous for it, largely because it was one of, if not the first type to experience it...but is being famous for compressability mean that it must be the only type in FB that suffers from it?...I fly the 47 a lot, and even at over 1000kph, there is no evidence of compressability...sure, the controls stiffen up, ...a BIT, but no compressability...any other type will snap wings off before they get any compressability...funny how THIS aspect of the 38 seems to be inspired by anecdotal tales, and myth, but other types seem to ignore what should be factual...
Perhaps I am wrong about many other types, that they wont enter compressability...am I wrong?

Korolov
09-13-2004, 03:49 PM
Well, the P-63, P-39, Yak series, La series will get compression if they go too fast - just not as serious as with the P-38.

Also if you're having some problems climbing with the P-38, I suggest you try getting speed up to 300-350kmh and then begin a steady climb. You won't be climbing at the maximum rate but you'll essentially be going "faster" over time.

Another point - the P-38J didn't have better engines than the other P-38s. Same ones from the H, and changed to the more powerful F-30 on the L's.

Finally, Gibbage insisted that the P-38 have horrid compressability problems when it was implemented into the game. According to him, the P-38 behaved somewhat like the P-47 does now with elevator. So, he asked them to change it to the horrid compression problem we have now.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

p1ngu666
09-13-2004, 04:25 PM
part of the problem is when u go over the limit
its one of the most unforgiving planes imo
it should be one of the best. also no one has commented on my il2 vs p38 tracks
il2 is WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY softer, p38 is like a 190 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

i dont think the p38 is as good as it could be in the game code.
some of the numbers match up, but the feel is/seems wrong to me.

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt;NO SPAM!
&lt;badsight&gt;my name is tracy and pingu is the Antichrist of Combat Flight Simmers
&lt;lexx_luthor&gt;flowers across the land in BoB

Aaron_GT
09-13-2004, 04:35 PM
Took up a P38J last night on WarClouds. Took it up to 3km, saw action at 1km and dropped down (slinging on the anchors somewhat when I hit 650km/h and started to compress). Got on the tail of a 109, opened fire with a very short burst at around 100m. The 109 caught fire, climed, then disintegrated. Checked my gun stats. 50 rounds fired, 4 hit. Pretty impressive.

Mind you I got shot down 5 minutes later!

With regard to the Defiant: not much good against fighters, but then the RAF fighters of the time were meant more to combat bombers by sitting in their blind spots. The 6 was normally well covered so the logic was that a plane with a turret could sidle up to a blind spot somewhere (low 3 and low 9 typically).

Korolov
09-13-2004, 05:01 PM
You stuck around too long and the ol' Mk108 magnet caught some. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Success with the P-38 is pretty easy as long as you maintain a advantage or surprise. In a full fledged melee though, it gets a little more complex.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

Atomic_Marten
09-13-2004, 05:05 PM
When we are all in this &gt;serious mode=OFF&lt; then I would like to suggest or rather make a wish to some willing IL-2 plane modeler: m8 can you please make some A/C from WW2 era in the IL-2 that possess no armament, no bomb loads nor weapons of any kind (aircraft type irrelevant although multi-crewed one would be my prefered type). If you also include blank skin for it, I would make myself nice skin with red crosses on the wings and tail.

And what is more important, when flying online nobody can call me a noob or similar &gt;describing-nice-flying skills&lt; in one word. And *then* probably everyone will call me a skilled flyer and all other kind of nice stuff....http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It seems to me that top skilled flyers in this game uses only inferior plane types online in order to attain thier *ace* status among the community.

This way I could obtain legendary, unbeatable *godlike* status...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Korolov
09-13-2004, 05:09 PM
Maybe someone will make a Tigermoth for you... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

WTE_Galway
09-13-2004, 05:21 PM
Do rememeber when comparing with historical anecdotes that real life P38 pilots regularly used asynchronise throttle settings (one engine full throttle the other engine backed off) in combat turns to get an edge.

I suspect very few people do this in FB and am not even sure the effect is modelled correctly. Apart from anything else, we cannot map two throttles in FB so the technique would be unweildy compared to real life.

FZG_Mined
09-13-2004, 05:35 PM
shot down a bf109 with four 0,5 hits???

loool u're an ace!! did u manage to aim at the pipe that conducts from fuel tank to egine?

Davide

http://mined86.free.fr/banniere.jpg

Korolov
09-13-2004, 06:09 PM
109s light up pretty easy in the game... A few hits to the engine or forward fuselage is enough to light them up.

Plus he was probably using the cannon as well - one or two hits from the cannon is plenty.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

VMF513_Sandman
09-14-2004, 05:57 AM
cannon can score hits from .8 out if u have the proper deflection angle. all a spit needs is 1 of those 20mm shells at the wingroot and snapcity it goes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Aaron_GT
09-14-2004, 06:22 AM
I was definitely using the cannon - it is there to be used! I was just pleasantly surprised that it took only 4 rounds connecting to take the 109 down. &gt;gunstat doesn't tell you what type hit, though - might all been cannon rounds.

VMF513_Sandman
09-14-2004, 06:31 AM
if ur not already in a squad, i could use another p-38 wingman that knows his chit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VMF513_Sandman
09-14-2004, 06:35 AM
i did notice that if u can figure out the proper lead, the 38 does have a much longer range than the other 50 cal birds....but they shoot so straight, u gotta be a master at it