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Lancelot_ecv56
04-16-2004, 09:30 AM
Hi,

I have a question about how fleets will be handled on PF with the FMB.
One problem we have with ships on FB, its that you have to place each ship individually when building a mission, and you can't set and objective of sinking 50% transports of a fleet with four transports, or something similar. You have to set each ship and objective, and if you use "primary objective", only take one ship to not be sinked for having mission failure.

Long time ago, when we had IL-2, i made a proposition of adding groups fleet to the objects on the FMB, something like we have now with vehicles convoy and tank groups. This could solve the problem of adding several objectives, and we can use one single objective of % destruction of the fleet.

At that time o thought of:

Small fleet - three or 4 varied ships
Medium fleet - 6 to 8 varied ships
Large Fleet - 10 to 12 varied ships.

Small transports fleet - 3 or 4 ships which none or one of them is an escort (destroyer or armored boats) and the other transports.
Medium transport fleet - 6 to 8 ships which one or two of them are escorts (destroyer or armored boats) and the other transports.
Large transpor fleet - 10 to 12 ships which three of them are escorts (destroyer or armored boats) and the other transports.

Small Attack fleet: 3 or four combat vessel.
Medium Attak fleet: 6 to 8 ships and maybe one of them is a transport and the other are combat vessels (destroyers, cruiser, one battleship)
Large Attack Fleet: 10 to 12 combat ships with one or two transports, if you want.

Now, with PF the option of having small, medium and large Battle Groups and/or Carrier Groups i beleive could be, and should be, added to the list. Mayber also Convoys, but don't know if they were used on the Pacific as much as on the Atlantic.

With all due respect, and complete honesty, i think the way objectives are set on FB have to be reworked for PF, the way they are now, i beleive are unsuitable for ship and fleets.

If you add the option of "fleets", the "Destroy" and "Protect" objectives, with any porcentage, are more usefull.
If you wont to set the objective of destroying one or two single ships, you still have the option to build the fleet individually and use a single objective with the particular ship.

Will such thing, or something similar, be implemented on PF?

Forgive my english! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Thanks a lot!

Si hay que huir, YO PRIMERO!!!

Lancelot_ecv56
04-16-2004, 09:30 AM
Hi,

I have a question about how fleets will be handled on PF with the FMB.
One problem we have with ships on FB, its that you have to place each ship individually when building a mission, and you can't set and objective of sinking 50% transports of a fleet with four transports, or something similar. You have to set each ship and objective, and if you use "primary objective", only take one ship to not be sinked for having mission failure.

Long time ago, when we had IL-2, i made a proposition of adding groups fleet to the objects on the FMB, something like we have now with vehicles convoy and tank groups. This could solve the problem of adding several objectives, and we can use one single objective of % destruction of the fleet.

At that time o thought of:

Small fleet - three or 4 varied ships
Medium fleet - 6 to 8 varied ships
Large Fleet - 10 to 12 varied ships.

Small transports fleet - 3 or 4 ships which none or one of them is an escort (destroyer or armored boats) and the other transports.
Medium transport fleet - 6 to 8 ships which one or two of them are escorts (destroyer or armored boats) and the other transports.
Large transpor fleet - 10 to 12 ships which three of them are escorts (destroyer or armored boats) and the other transports.

Small Attack fleet: 3 or four combat vessel.
Medium Attak fleet: 6 to 8 ships and maybe one of them is a transport and the other are combat vessels (destroyers, cruiser, one battleship)
Large Attack Fleet: 10 to 12 combat ships with one or two transports, if you want.

Now, with PF the option of having small, medium and large Battle Groups and/or Carrier Groups i beleive could be, and should be, added to the list. Mayber also Convoys, but don't know if they were used on the Pacific as much as on the Atlantic.

With all due respect, and complete honesty, i think the way objectives are set on FB have to be reworked for PF, the way they are now, i beleive are unsuitable for ship and fleets.

If you add the option of "fleets", the "Destroy" and "Protect" objectives, with any porcentage, are more usefull.
If you wont to set the objective of destroying one or two single ships, you still have the option to build the fleet individually and use a single objective with the particular ship.

Will such thing, or something similar, be implemented on PF?

Forgive my english! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Thanks a lot!

Si hay que huir, YO PRIMERO!!!

Gato-Loco
04-16-2004, 01:43 PM
Good idea!!!

Lancelot_ecv56
04-16-2004, 11:18 PM
BUMP!

Si hay que huir, YO PRIMERO!!!

DStrong86
04-17-2004, 10:03 PM
Even if the feature is implemented in Campaign building it's a greet idea.
Just keeping the requirements simple, such as
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Small, Medium and Large Fleet (with) the option of "fleet" "Destroy" and "Protect" objectives, and (success) percentage
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
should give the development team the biggest bang for their Time Spent and would allow 3rd parties the chance to develop more Historical Campaigns. Which is another plus for the Developers because it extends the lifespan of PF, and attracts and keeps more customers (for this and their future sequels).

Read - more $$$ for the company to keep up further development (we're happy) and give everybody a nice Christmas bonus at the end of the year (they're happy)

I'm sure by now Luthier and team are looking at which specific features extend their "long-term partnership" with all of you contributors/3rd party (graphics, flight modeling, hard-core history, etc)

Not only would added flexibility/ease of use for 3rd party or "community development" (read new Historical Campaigns) keep PF and BOB alive longer, their reputation for historical accuracy and new campaigns might attract other brand new players (Strategy,WarGaming)

I'm all for keeping this line of flight games profitable, espec since JANES shut down and the only other alternative is MS (no comparison in either overall package MSCFS# or their relationship? with the public)

Otherwise I'd have to go back to historical board games (where Cool special effects require Medication)

Lancelot_ecv56
04-19-2004, 10:37 PM
Bump!

Sorry, i beleive its important. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Si hay que huir, YO PRIMERO!!!

Tater-SW-
05-22-2004, 11:47 PM
Or, simply the ability to take a group of vehicles and lasso them, then Group them. Their relative positions would stay the same, and the waypoint properties would be set to be identical.

This would work for groups of ships, and even for bombers (you could make a vic of bombers, then 2 more, and lasso them to make a vic of vics squadron).

tater

LEXX_Luthor
05-22-2004, 11:56 PM
Flaker 2.51 Mission Editor had a very nice way of creating fleets, allowing the mission creator to add any number of any kind of ships, you just set fleet waypoints, without having to set waypoints for individual ships.

...although there were some restrictions such as only one (1) Kuznetov carrier in one fleet and if so, no other fleets could be created with another K carrier. I guess cos only one K carrier was built I think, or the Flaker game could handle only one K carrier.

Maj_Death
05-23-2004, 03:18 AM
Pre-made fleets would be no harder to add than the truck convoys. Good idea, I hope it is implemented cause I am getting really sick of creating 10 different sets of waypoints for the same damn convoy.

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Cess_Wizard
05-23-2004, 06:38 AM
Dare I say it that CFS2 had the feature of ship groups. Making one ship the master and identifying the others in the group. They would then at least attempt to mantain a formation. Does make fleet mission generation a lot easier.

Baco-ECV56
05-24-2004, 03:18 PM
Sorry to insist, but any thoughts on this Luthier?

Baco-ECV56
05-26-2004, 01:49 PM
BUMP

Zeus-cat
05-26-2004, 06:13 PM
Lancelot_ecv56,

You said

"I have a question about how fleets will be handled on PF with the FMB. One problem we have with ships on FB, its that you have to place each ship individually when building a mission, and you can't set and objective of sinking 50% transports of a fleet with four transports, or something similar. You have to set each ship and objective, and if you use "primary objective", only take one ship to not be sinked for having mission failure."

You can select a group of ships as a primary target with an objective to sink 25, 50, 75 or 100% of them. I've done this in my IL-2T torpedo campaign (coming soon - in what else, 2 weeks). Use destroy ground as the target. Place all of the ships inside the target circle and keep them there for the duration of the timeout period.

Here is how I did this in my campaign:
1) I placed the ships at the edge of the circle.

2) I used the waypoint time feature to have the ships sit at 0km/hour until a minute or two before the attacking planes should arrive.

3) I then have the ships travel to the far edge of the target circle and then change course so they stay inside the circle.

4) If the timeout for the destroy ground object is 30 minutes, I keep them inside for the full 30 minutes.

The target circle, at its largest setting, is approximately 6km in diameter. With care, you can get a small number of ships to cruise around inside this circle and still have the appearance of a natural look to their movement. I suggest you have the ships trace out a square or pentagon shape inside the circle. Each point should be just inside the border.

I like the idea that Lancelot_ecv56 had with the small, medium and large fleets. I suggested something similar a few months ago. My idea was that you could select the specific ships that would go into the convoy.

Zeus-cat

Lancelot_ecv56
05-28-2004, 09:46 AM
Thanks Zeus, i once tryed something similar, but without succes because the target even started outside the circle, or started inside but were distroyed outside of it, so i thought it couldn't work.
I will try what you say, thanks a lot.

Post here once you finnsh your IL-2T campaign, sounds interesting. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Si hay que huir, YO PRIMERO!!!