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JJ_Ramone
08-25-2004, 05:42 AM
Hi,

Lately in my offline carrier, I have switched of the HUD messages (great fun, really immersive). One of the things you really have to pay attention to is enginge overheating. There are several gauges indicating different things for different aircraft. Mainly oil temp for air coolers and oil temp and coolant temp for liquid cooled engines.

The only way to know when your engine is overheating is to set up a QMB and push your engine until it overheats and then read the gauge. Now what is the most reliable way (in RL and FB) to learn when the engine overheats? Is it the engine coolant temperature or is it the oil temp? (for liquid cooled engines). For aircooled, i take it it is the oil temp. However, the I-16 has 3 different temp gauges (in temp, out temp and just "temp").

Anyone who knows wich gauge is the most reliable for this purpose?

Thanks,
J. Ramone

P.S what does the "engine gauge" show? (found in VVS aircraft)

JJ_Ramone
08-25-2004, 05:42 AM
Hi,

Lately in my offline carrier, I have switched of the HUD messages (great fun, really immersive). One of the things you really have to pay attention to is enginge overheating. There are several gauges indicating different things for different aircraft. Mainly oil temp for air coolers and oil temp and coolant temp for liquid cooled engines.

The only way to know when your engine is overheating is to set up a QMB and push your engine until it overheats and then read the gauge. Now what is the most reliable way (in RL and FB) to learn when the engine overheats? Is it the engine coolant temperature or is it the oil temp? (for liquid cooled engines). For aircooled, i take it it is the oil temp. However, the I-16 has 3 different temp gauges (in temp, out temp and just "temp").

Anyone who knows wich gauge is the most reliable for this purpose?

Thanks,
J. Ramone

P.S what does the "engine gauge" show? (found in VVS aircraft)

michapma
08-25-2004, 06:06 AM
In real life, the allowable operating temperatures are provided in the pilot's notes or other documentation, both for oil and coolant temperatures. These were often ignored in real operation, but probably not without the price of a damaged engine. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

In FB, there is no guarantee that both or either gauge works. In others where one or the other does work (usually oil instead of coolant), the overheating message occurs when the oil temp needle is pegged over the max reading. Examples are the P-39 and P-40. I believe this happens with several Russian aircraft as well. Some aircraft have a light that comes on when overheating occurs, such as the LaGG-3 and P-40 IIRC. I remember the I-16 has at least two oil temp gauges, one where the oil enters the engine and one where it exits. I believe in the Hurri you can actually read from the needle exactly when the engine overheating message comes.

In short, it's not very consistent in the sim. Sometimes you just can't tell, unfortunate as that is. Another problem you've probably noticed by now is that you don't know what position your radiator is in unless you can remember it. I'd like to see more working indicators and less reliance on HUD too, hopefully in BoB.

Cheers and C!, cool decision. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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ZG77_Lignite
08-25-2004, 10:09 AM
For a 'quick and dirty' (which means not necessarily reliable) way to figure out which guage is giving the 'important' temp (meaning the one that FB uses to determine engine damage): Run at a very low power setting for your aircraft (say 50/50) and note which guage operates at around 80degC, then run at a pretty high power setting (say 90/90) and watch which guage climbs quickly to 120degC. I believe (opinion only) that FB uses a standard 'overheat' calculation for all aircraft, and it only 'feels' different due to each aircraft achieving its overheat state at different power settings (to simulate differing power outputs of different aircraft, seems reasonable to me).

Like Michapma says, most all guages in the sim peg at 120degC, which may not necessarily bring up the Hud 'overheat' message. However, its alwayse a good rule of thumb to increase cooling when that guage hits 120 (forgive me for I can't even remember what the American guages read), as all aircraft will 'soon' begin to overheat.

F19_Ob
08-25-2004, 10:16 AM
Pilots generally were very mindful and careful with their engines so they would bring them home again.
The 109 pilots must have felt uneasy when the G model came, with its tendensy to start burning without warning. The missions over sea probably were quite scary http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

michapma
08-25-2004, 10:16 AM
I agree that the overheat message probably correlates to a specific calculated temperature, regardless of whether that number is complexly or simply calculated. Don't know which temperature. What I haven't tried to figure out is whether the modeled damage for each engine is different--I have the feeling it just might be, based on various situations I've gotten myself into.

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

WTE_Galway
08-25-2004, 10:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by michapma:
I agree that the overheat message probably correlates to a specific calculated temperature, regardless of whether that number is complexly or simply calculated. Don't know which temperature. What I haven't tried to figure out is whether the modeled damage for each engine is different--I have the feeling it just might be, based on various situations I've gotten myself into.

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_http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/_ | http://www.forgottenskies.com/
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. _- Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



problem is its impossible to get info on what is modelled.

Example .. the lagg temp warning light is on if the engine is too cold (under 40C )as well as too hot. Does this mean engine damage will occur if you apply full throttle with a cold engine ??? Its often been claimed the 109 will suffer random engine damage if you do not wait till temp reaches 40C but is it modelled in game or not ????

The radiator position problem could be simply fixed .. all we need is the ability to map keys to set positions so a particular key will always close the radiator etc.

IL2-chuter
08-26-2004, 10:37 AM
I have no idea whats with the I16, but, American air cooled engines all had cylinder head temp gauges. Not sure if Jug's is hooked up or not (turbo gauge definately isn't). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"I fly only Full Real in Il2 Forgotten Battles." -Mark Donohue

JJ_Ramone
08-27-2004, 05:08 AM
Thanks for your input, guys.

I pretty much share your view on this. Most temp gauges seem to give an overheat message at 120 degrees celsius. However, I'm never certain if it is the coolant agent or the oil. Makes really no difference as long as you get a warning equivilent to the HUD "Overheat!" message.

For the BF109 F2, it is a very thin line between overheat and normal around the 120 mark. As ob_swe stated, pilots would probably be very careful with not overheating. Then you would expect a good gauge which clearly indicates when temp (oil or coolant) is too hot. There should be a red area on the gauge or at least a warning lamp or so. I guess I'm asking for features that are modelled too simplistic.

Engine management during combat without HUD is great fun, adds another dimension. Now I watch the temp gauge with the same care as the bogey aircraft! As soon as the action level drops slightly, you want to bring thad gauge hand down to 100 or 80 degrees, knowing that your ride won't perform more than the temp allows.

Johnny Ramone