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Korvens
04-18-2004, 11:55 AM
Hello. I got a question about how to attack the Zero's the best way. I'm flying the P-40 and have tried almost everything. I havent been shot down yet, But badly wounded and with a few more holes that was'nt there when I started. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Well, I thought that the best way was to get altitude advantage, But the bastard just follows me below and when i finally tries to front him in a dive he bust my ***.

Please help me to take them down....

Korvens
04-18-2004, 11:55 AM
Hello. I got a question about how to attack the Zero's the best way. I'm flying the P-40 and have tried almost everything. I havent been shot down yet, But badly wounded and with a few more holes that was'nt there when I started. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Well, I thought that the best way was to get altitude advantage, But the bastard just follows me below and when i finally tries to front him in a dive he bust my ***.

Please help me to take them down....

Vortex_uk
04-18-2004, 11:59 AM
The only way to kill a zero is the do a hit and run,Zero is slower than a P-40,so get some speed turn onto it,fly past firing all guns,keep flying on a good distance,turn around or loop and repeat,I fly the Zero mostly so i know how to kill 1 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif or another way,bring it into a dive than the Zero's controls are weak,very weak at 400 km/h or more, so try a bit of TnB then.

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http://www.photodump.com/direct/Vortex/marauder.jpg

"We are not retreating -- we are advancing in another direction. " ~ Gen. MacArthur

Friendly_flyer
04-18-2004, 11:59 AM
If you use the Quick Mission Builder, the opposing sides will start at the same altitude. Trying to use hight advantage won't really work. If you use the Full Mission Builder, you can make yorself missions with any hight advantage you would like.

Fly friendly!

Petter Bøckman
Norway

Vortex_uk
04-18-2004, 12:09 PM
Height won't work with a Zero,if a Zero spots you it'll most probably turn to fast for your plane,thus you trying to follow a fast turning plane would lead you into a spin.

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http://www.photodump.com/direct/Vortex/A6M2-1-Zero.jpg

"We are not retreating, we are advancing in another direction. " ~ Gen. MacArthur

Just_Bulldog
04-18-2004, 12:12 PM
Well in real life (as I have read in some of the accounts of the actual WWII Pacific fighter pilots) the Zero had great difficulty making a right turn at low altitude. This is not true in FB or AEP. In real life, if an Allied pilot found a Zero getting an advantage, they went for the deck and turned right. The Zero could not maintain the advantage and was forced to utilize alternate techniques to survive or be succesful.

In FB I found that keeping my power around 85% and using a lot of opposite rudder and combat flaps (you have to watch your energy when doing it this way) you can keep a Zero busy until he either loses the advantage or breaks off. Then you can re-engage and go for the kill.

I have also used a stall/spin maneuver (when desparate) to make him overshoot me. This requires some altitude or a good spin recovery technique or else you will kill yourself.

Head on shots are a 50/50 venture so only do that if you have no choice. I have found that in a head on, the Zero, most of the time, will continue on his waypoint. So avoid getting hit by him on the initial pass and pull a half Cuban 8 on one and keep a lookout on your 6 after you pull up behind the Zero at your 12. Preferably you will be high and on his 6. Do a boom and zoom on him, hit him and get his plane wounded, and come back for another run if he does not go down after that pass.

Good luck.

XyZspineZyX
04-18-2004, 12:34 PM
Vortex, the mistake you're making there is that you *have to* kill the Zero with that one diving pass. It isn't "likely" to happen, unless he doesn't see you.

The thing is, if you slow down, or burn energy trying to "make the shot work", you play into his hands, and then can't escape.

Having altitude is imperative (and I might add, rare) for a P-40. The more friendlies you have in the area, making snapshots and drag-n-bag setups in a swirling fight, the less you absolutely need alt. But you *always* need to keep speed up. You have NOTHING on a Zero but top speed (and agility at speed), toughness and guns. And if the Zero is close enough to use the cannon, even the guns aren't an advantage.

paradoxbox
04-18-2004, 01:23 PM
I only fly P-38's so my input may be useless here, but if someone flying the zero is arrogant enough to try a headon with me it's usually the end of them very quickly. Try to aim for the cockpit, the plane explodes REALLY quickly. And I mean it explodes, it just vaporises after a quick burst.

It may be a bit harder to do with the 50 cals only but it's quite easy compared to other planes.

If you only fly the P-40 I can only suggest you keep your speed up and try to use team tactics. The P-40 is not a lot faster than the zero, so you need to be careful about how close you let him get behind you. Make all your shots count, and try to take him at the first opportunity he lets you shoot him. A bit of offline gunnery practice will help with that.

Vortex_uk
04-18-2004, 04:11 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stiglr:
Vortex, the mistake you're making there is that you *have to* kill the Zero with that one diving pass.
[QUOTE]

Which should be easy enough seeing that the whole outter body of the Zero is more or less a paper or canvas making it so that conrols are pretty damn easy to lose to 6x50 cals. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

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http://www.photodump.com/direct/Vortex/A6M2-1-Zero.jpg

"We are not retreating, we are advancing in another direction. " ~ Gen. MacArthur

DeerHunterUK
04-18-2004, 04:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vortex_uk:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stiglr:
Vortex, the mistake you're making there is that you *have to* kill the Zero with that one diving pass.
[QUOTE]

Which should be easy enough seeing that the whole outter body of the Zero is more or less a paper or canvas making it so that conrols are pretty damn easy to lose to 6x50 cals. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, you couldn't be further from the truth. The Zero is structurally very strong as it's only constructed in 2 pieces. The engine, cockpit and forward fuselage combined with the wings to form 1 unit, the second unit comprising the rear fuselage and the tail. The two units were held together by a ring of 80 bolts. As long as critical areas were not hit, like the unarmoured cockpit or non self-sealing fueltanks the Zero should be ok, but as soon as they are hit it's usually curtains for the Zero.

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
04-18-2004, 04:36 PM
Vortex, yer not *listening*.

Yes, a Zero will explode very quickly if you hit it with 4 or 6 .50 cals. Even a snapshot.

The operative word there is, "IF".

And "IF" you blow all your speed trying to get that shot in, and don't allow yourself speed to get out of there, the Zero will mail you your arse back in a bubble-wrapped envelope; postage due.

So, the smart P-40 driver will build up a head of steam, make a pass, and if he hits, good for him, the Zero will be hurting. If not, he still has enough energy to get him out of there to try again, or to head for home.

WARHorse82
04-18-2004, 09:20 PM
I fly the P-40 exclusivley since I got the game and I can't honestly say I've had this problem,lucky I guess.I always make sure I get the jump on them,it's the only way to be sure.I don't attack unless I'm sure I can take em' out in one pass.There's no point wasting tons of ammo on ONE enemy fighter.If the situation doesn't seem in your favor break off.

WUAF_Badsight
04-18-2004, 10:37 PM
the P-40 is sooo Whippy it can turn fight Zero's in FB

its been done to me flying the Zero & ive done it to others flying the P-40

key is aggresivness

Zero has dis-advantages & Advantages

fight with & against them

same applys flying the Zero

what is in the Zeros favour MASSIVELY is the wepons & the climb rate

pourshot
04-19-2004, 01:44 AM
The safest thing to do is keep the zero at a distance and spray him with the .50, dont make more than a 90 deg turn with him and try to mantain your speed.

And dont ever try to outdive a zero in this game it cant be done, the model 21 is overmodeled in the dive (we will see what happens after the patch with this one) and the model 52 can safely reach 460+ mph where as the p40 can only do 500mph

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

Giganoni
04-19-2004, 02:41 AM
Is the Zero a very good vertical climber? compared to the aircraft it faced I mean? I was under the impression that it was.

RAAF_Edin
04-19-2004, 03:01 AM
The Zero A6M2 is a tad too fast as to what it should be (A6M5a is alright) and both climb excellent at lower speeds as they are very light. The P-40 climbs better at higher speed (zoom climb) but in continued climb the Zero will catch up.

1 on 1 it is really hard to fight a Zero, as most people "want" the kill no matter what and eventually slow down into a turn/climb fight and play into Zero's advantage where as in real life P-40 is better with keeping the speed up and most importantly... GOOD TEAM WORK! Because a P-40 IS faster (and hopefully the 21 model Zero's speed fixed up) team work and engaging only those who are unaware of you is the key... keeping your speed... get them while they don't know you're there... and 6x 0.50cal are more than enought to get'em down and the speed you had enough to extend, get some altitude and always look out for each other.

DeerHunterUK
04-19-2004, 05:08 AM
Ok I'm going to regret this but there's a few things you can do if you find yourself with a Zero on your tail.Firstly, if you have enough speed, extend away from the Zero it's not a fast aircraft. Secondly, if you don't have enough speed i.e. you've just tried dogfighting with the Zero, perform a scissors manoeuvre, the Zero has a very poor rollrate and will find it difficult to get a decent shot in. Lastly, if you have height, dive, the Zero is especially poor when diving and at high speed.
BTW Edin, I think you're wrong about the A6M2's speed. It's fine IMHO, barely faster than a Hurricane Mk Ia as it should be.

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

pourshot
04-19-2004, 05:15 AM
Deerhunter put the model 21 in a dive and tell me at what speed it brakes up http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

DeerHunterUK
04-19-2004, 05:20 AM
Yes, I've actually managed to tear the elevators off my A6M2. I was exceding 500 KPH (about 300 MPH) at the time, a very big no-no in a Zero. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

WUAF_Badsight
04-19-2004, 05:23 AM
ok ive seen a lot of excellent Zero v P-40 DF's

from what ive seen the Zero *can* be turn fought with a P-40

reversals & sissors &nose-stands being the type of turns .... rather than constant turns

i dont think that the P-40 should be able too stick it .... wasnt the Zero simply more dominant than it is in FB at turn fighting ?

were the P-40's IRL forced to stay fast & use dives to get away from them ?

i suppose that we get more DF pratice than they did IRL & also that we dont have airframe / death limitations allowing us to hang it all out to the wind trying for that kill tho

DeerHunterUK
04-19-2004, 05:37 AM
There's some excellent books available about the Zero. My personal favourite is "Samurai!" by Saburo Sakai and is an excellent and unbiased account of his exploits during the War and yes P-40's\P-39's during the early War years had to make 1 diving attack run at the Zero and then get away as quickly as possible. Read it, you won't be disappointed.

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

pourshot
04-19-2004, 05:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:

were the P-40's IRL forced to stay fast & use dives to get away from them ?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes thats correct but a p40 could turn fight a zero so long as it was at speeds over 280mph'ish

The zero was not good at high speeds but the slower the fight the better the zero gets

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

RAAF_Edin
04-19-2004, 05:58 AM
Just for the referrence... Pourshot and I just did an online test COOP where we got into an A6M2 Zero (model 21) and tested its dive speed:

I got it safely to 680kmph (425mph) and pulled out of the dive where as Pourshot got it to 700kmph (435mph) and also pulled out of the dive safely.

Now, anywhere I read I see A6M2 being able to do just over 350mph safely in a dive. In fact Saburo said Japanese pilots would not even dare to go into a dive of 350mph as it was way too dangerous where the wing cover started to wrincle and more importantly the pilot could not pull out of the dive as the controls became way too heavy.

So just again let's compare the A6M2 from the specs I could find anywhere I could and to current FB model:

referrences: 350mph (more or less)
FB: 680kmph or even 700kmph (let's round off to 690kmph - which is about 430mph)

That is not something I would say has a good match... or even close. A6M5a is alright, but the A6M2 is not. I hear it'll be fixed in the patch so I'm a bit reserved in starting to get "louder" about this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

DeerHunterUK
04-19-2004, 06:02 AM
LOL you never mentioned diving speeds in the post I replied to, but your point is taken. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.