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|CoB|_Spectre
04-18-2004, 06:50 AM
A search of topics re: the Go-229 returned "no information found", so please excuse if this has been brought up before and the search engine has failed us again. Despite it's not being deployed in combat, the Go-229 is a hoot to fly, particularly against B-17 boxes. The aircraft is responsive and the Mk 108 guns look like what I've seen in gun camera footage in both tracer track and effect on the target. I don't know why the same Mk 108s on any other aircraft, especially the Me-262, behave so differently. I hesitate to bring this up for fear the Go-229's guns will be brought down to the standard of other Mk 108 installations rather than all the others being brought up to that of the Go-229. A few things I would hope are addressed in a future patch for the Horten wing is making the radio magnetic indicator point to waypoints (it seems to always point at 12 o'clock), reduce the darkness of the gunsight optical plate (much too gray) and make the aircraft trimmable. Presently I have never been able to trim it for straight and level flight. It's either ascending or descending no matter how finely you try to trim. Also, once you're on the ground, you cannot egress the aircraft other than by ejecting, which has predictable results since it's not a zero-zero seat. It's a downer to nurse a wing home with a burning engine, land safely and die because you can't get out of the aircraft without riding the rocket seat. As a "just for fun" flyable, the wing is hard to beat.

|CoB|_Spectre
04-18-2004, 06:50 AM
A search of topics re: the Go-229 returned "no information found", so please excuse if this has been brought up before and the search engine has failed us again. Despite it's not being deployed in combat, the Go-229 is a hoot to fly, particularly against B-17 boxes. The aircraft is responsive and the Mk 108 guns look like what I've seen in gun camera footage in both tracer track and effect on the target. I don't know why the same Mk 108s on any other aircraft, especially the Me-262, behave so differently. I hesitate to bring this up for fear the Go-229's guns will be brought down to the standard of other Mk 108 installations rather than all the others being brought up to that of the Go-229. A few things I would hope are addressed in a future patch for the Horten wing is making the radio magnetic indicator point to waypoints (it seems to always point at 12 o'clock), reduce the darkness of the gunsight optical plate (much too gray) and make the aircraft trimmable. Presently I have never been able to trim it for straight and level flight. It's either ascending or descending no matter how finely you try to trim. Also, once you're on the ground, you cannot egress the aircraft other than by ejecting, which has predictable results since it's not a zero-zero seat. It's a downer to nurse a wing home with a burning engine, land safely and die because you can't get out of the aircraft without riding the rocket seat. As a "just for fun" flyable, the wing is hard to beat.

p1ngu666
04-18-2004, 07:34 AM
gladiator/cr42 :P http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
the go229 has mk103's. fire the same shell/warhead but much better volicity http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
hence they dont go down as quick

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VW-IceFire
04-18-2004, 08:14 AM
Agreed...the Go-229 is a neat addition. It belongs in a what-if 1945 or 1946 scenario like the YP-80, the He-162 (to some extent), and the 109Z.

I haven't actually tried to land or takeoff in one so that may be something I try next.

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Kwiatos
04-18-2004, 08:30 AM
Go-229 is nice ufo http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif See how these turn and roll. Even batmonobil can't do these way
Ban for these plane - i dont know way Oleg put it to FB, BF 109Z the same.

DarthBane_
04-18-2004, 09:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kwiatos:
Go-229 is nice ufo http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif See how these turn and roll. Even batmonobil can't do these way
Ban for these plane - i dont know way Oleg put it to FB, BF 109Z the same.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is topic for people who have interest in this plane, go whine someplace else.

BlitzPig_DDT
04-18-2004, 09:38 AM
The 229 is no UFO. If you would bother to actually learn something about the aircraft, you might see that. But I guess that is too much to ask for some people.

Spectre, as p1ngu pointed out, they are 103s, not 108s. The 103s are *much* harder hitting. IIRC, the 190A8 or 9 can load up 2 108s or 2 109s which can be fired by themselves. That lets you test out each gun type (in pairs) so you can better see the difference. Due to the extra velocity, they had better trajectories as well, which makes them a bit easier to hit with. (Not sure if they had more mass in the round too.....forget)

As for escaping the plane, there is no way to exit any plane in this game other than ejection. The thing to do is, if you make it down, come to a full stop and hit escape and refly or end the mission (if offline).

I heard rumors that the RMI moves now, but I don't know if it points to way points. Not sure how that could have been done in '45. IIRC, it was tuned to the direction of landing on the home airfield. Also heard that the spoiler pedal animation has been fixed as well. But not the ASI. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

As for trim, there are no planes that I have been able to fully trim for 100% level flight. And Jets are tricky because they tend to keep accelerating until they hit their max (assuming ful throttle). The 229 requires lots of down trim to fly more or less level at speed. But don't worry about getting it to the point of flying the full map length hands off. I don't think any of the planes we have can do that, and it's not a big enough issue to be concerned with really.

I've never had a problem with the gunsight really. And to be honest, I'd almost rather them leave it alone for fear of it being intentionally mis-modeled to appease the massive throngs of un-informed complainers, like Kwiatos here. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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[This message was edited by BlitzPig_DDT on Sun April 18 2004 at 08:48 AM.]

BlitzPig_DDT
04-18-2004, 09:46 AM
Ice, taxi is like all LW jets. @50% throttle, a touch of ground speed, brakes and heavy spoiler (rudder). Use wide view and gunsight view, jumping back and forth. Once lined up, hold the brakes and throttle up to about 80%, release the brakes and continue up to 100%. Let it overheat a bit. Once over 100kph, drop flaps to Take Off setting, and once up to 170, gently ease it up, and pull the gear up quickly, followed by going from take off to combat flaps, then a second later, to flaps up.

Once you get up over 250kph, throttle (*slowly*) back down to 80%, and the engines should cool off. Keep level, adding down trim as speed incrases, until you are showing at least 400kph+ before starting to climb. Keep your speed up at all times. It sucks in a slow climb.

(BTW - that's a "best practice" for take off to make it easy on the plane and the pilot during and especially after, take off. But, it can get up quicker than that. It just takes a bit of skill, and also makes gaining speed and alt tricker. Conversely, if you use no flaps and let it roll to 250+ it'll lift effortlessly, and get speed and alt more easily as well)

For landing, use dive brake to get speed down to under 300, drop full flaps, drop gear, then use a combination of throttle and dive brake to keep speed around 170-ish, touch down on the nose wheel, but try to have a positive AoA to reduce bounce, drop the brake if you had it up and stand on the wheel brakes, and that's it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

One other thing, on take off, it'll wander on you. Use spoiler and aileron together to keep it tracking as straight as possible. It's a result of no vertical stabilizer or rudder. It's design is such that stability increases as lift increases, and lift increases with speed, so, when you are slow, it drifts and wanders all over the place. (as it should)

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[This message was edited by BlitzPig_DDT on Sun April 18 2004 at 09:17 AM.]

FW190fan
04-18-2004, 10:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>One other thing, on take off, it'll wander on you. Use spoiler and aileron together to keep it tracking as straight as possible. It's a result of no vertical stabilizer or rudder. It's design is such that stability increases as lift increases, and lift increases with speed, so, when you are slow, it drifts and wanders all over the place. (as it should)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Indeed, she does wander around quite a bit at slow speeds http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It's one of the things I love about the flight model (a unique feel)

One thing to remember about t/o's in the 229 is that the rear wheels will come off the ground well before the front mainwheel. FB/AEP code does not support steering with the front wheel so this can be a bit tricky. At this point your primary means of keeping the 229 straight are the airbrakes outboard on the wings.

It takes some practice and what's cool is no two t/o's with the 229 are the same http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The cool thing is, this a/c WANTS to fly and wants to fly badly! The all-wing design generates so much lift that she will sometimes literally "leap" into the air.

I love the 229, it's a blast.

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p1ngu666
04-18-2004, 01:28 PM
very quick plane, the fastest iirec. 163 maybe fastest.
anyways from what ive read on here, the mk103, the actual shell/bullet/cannon/part that hits the plane is same as mk108, but the explosive bit thats used to fire it in the first place is bigger.
id guess at ammo mix might be different too
oh and ill will be realeasing some more nice go229 skins soonish http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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BlitzPig_DDT
04-18-2004, 01:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
very quick plane, the fastest iirec. 163 maybe fastest.
anyways from what ive read on here, the mk103, the actual shell/bullet/cannon/part that hits the plane is same as mk108, but the explosive bit thats used to fire it in the first place is bigger.
id guess at ammo mix might be different too
oh and ill will be realeasing some more nice go229 skins soonish http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the cartridge was certainly longer. I thought there might have been more mass being flung out too. But maybe not.

BTW, you are not the first person to claim that the 229 is fast and "possibly the fastest", as well as "quick". I'm curious, what tests have you done?

I ask because, even though I have intentionally not advertized it here, or spoken of it much at all, I have flown the 229 a *lot*. In fact, it might just be my favorite plane in the set right now (certainly among my favorites at least, being a plane wh0re is tough when there are so many great ones to choose from and only so much time in a day. lol). Over the course of extensive use, I've found how to use it against pretty much all comers, and how best to deal with it's landing and take off and taxi manners.

Natrually speed is part of knowing how to use any plane best. Acceleration ("quickness"), top speed level ("fast-ness"), and top speed in a dive, are all factors. I can say, unequivocally, that the 229 is the slowest jet, in all but VNE. And then it only has 10kph on the YP-80 (which seems wrong, wither the 229's VNE is too low, or the YP-80s is too high).

All other jets will out accelerate it, out climb it, and out run it straight and level. The only area where it's speed is an asset is in dive. It's quick, and fast in a dive, but only in a dive.

So again, I'm curious where this idea of it being either quick or fast comes from, because it's neither. In the hands of a competent pilot, any other jet has what it takes to kill the 229, or at least make life hell for a skilled pilot in one.

In fact, many props have what it takes too, if the conditions are right.

"œber", it isn't. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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VW-IceFire
04-18-2004, 05:07 PM
Certainly not uber...the lack of stability is a killer for me. I'm much prefered flying a stable gun platform and the MK103 recoil and the lack of stability means that its difficult to hit a fighter with the Go-229. I'm not very good at it anyways...

It doesn't roll or turn anything special either. Like all jets it can maintain superiority over propeller fighters if they maintain speed/alt advantage. In a sustained turn its hard pressed to do much of anything....

I agree that the 109Z should be a part of this plane set and not the normal dogfight server fare. But I'd actually rather fly against a Go-229 than a 109Z http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

All great for a fictional 1946 scenario. Plenty of fun to be had there.

Remember, plane options are great...especially if you fly offline. You can do anything you want with them. And many do fly offline exclusively! Online its a responsibilty of server admins...a very easy one too.

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p1ngu666
04-18-2004, 08:46 PM
online racing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. it doesnt have best accelloration, but it retains energy well. i was getting 880kps on the deck or close, p80 was 840 i think
i can run some proper tests if u want, its a nice bird http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
i have a friend who loves ithttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. done him 3 skins for it now, b2 bomber style, and 2 winterish ones. and now ive got a bird one todo for him

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BlitzPig_DDT
04-18-2004, 09:58 PM
"Bird One"?

Have to double check now, but in my personal speed runs and in combat online, I've found the He-162 to be the fastes, with probably the best all around acceleration (real good in a dive too, gotta watch the speed or go 'night-night and stay there. lol), with the YP-80 and 262 kinda neck in neck in second.

The YP-80 has deific E-retention too. Get that bad boy E-fighting and it's nigh unstopable, and a real PITA for me when I wanna fly the Wing. lol ('course, the shotgun .50s just make it easier for them to reach out and touch your engines too. lol)

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ElAurens
04-18-2004, 10:44 PM
http://www.iwasabducted.com/ufogallery/ufo63.jpg

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WUAF_Badsight
04-18-2004, 11:30 PM
there was enough test Flight Data for this Go-229 to be moddeled

& the Bf 109Z is eaisly predicted due to the Bf 109G6 being a well knowen thing

Kwiatos
04-19-2004, 03:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
http://www.iwasabducted.com/ufogallery/ufo63.jpg

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_____________________________

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__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go-229?

Urist
04-19-2004, 12:28 PM
The Go-229 is an awfully frightening plane to land.. Never had a problem taking off in it and it loves climbing...

But even if you do shoot down 5 bombers and avoid all of the surrounding fighters, good luck getting the bird back on the ground afterwards for full points.

avimimus
04-19-2004, 01:25 PM
I would love to see the 4xMk-108 loadout for the 229, I think it would be more useful in many situations. There could also be work on the fighter bomber version with 1000kg bombload.

|CoB|_Spectre
04-19-2004, 02:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Urist:
The Go-229 is an awfully frightening plane to land.. Never had a problem taking off in it and it loves climbing...

But even if you do shoot down 5 bombers and avoid all of the surrounding fighters, good luck getting the bird back on the ground afterwards for full points.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't noticed any major problems with landing it provided you consider the design. The Horten brothers had a strong background in glider design and that probably contributes to the comparatively huge nose landing gear. I tried flaring enough to touchdown on the mains, but there aren't any good visual cues other than to try to get into ground effect and keep easing back on the stick until you make contact. The angle at which the Go-229 sits on the runway feels comparitively nose-high anyway. Most gliders have a single main wheel on which to takeoff or touchdown and wingtip skids for protection of the wing when it settles after landing. In the Go-229's case, think of the "main mounts" basically as outrigger landing gear and use the large nosewheel as the primary bearer of the aircraft's weight. It's not just that large for looks! I usually make my approach at around 180 km/hr indicated (configured for landing: gear & flaps down), apply power and extend/retract speedbrakes as needed to control speed. Good landings start with good approaches. Once you settle in "the groove", it's airspeed and runway centerline. At least it works that way for me.

TAGERT.
04-19-2004, 02:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
the Bf 109Z is eaisly predicted due to the Bf 109G6 being a well knowen thing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And if you belive that.. I have a bridge for sale. Here is a pic of it

http://www.omega-webs.com/San%20Fran%20bridge.jpg

Interested? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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TAGERT

LEXX_Luthor
04-19-2004, 02:15 PM
I'll buy that bridge, if anybody knows if computers are used in aero engineering moddeling.

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TAGERT.
04-19-2004, 02:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
I'll buy that bridge,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let the bidding begin! Do I hear $100?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
if anybody knows if computers are used in aero engineering moddeling.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The answer is yes, and they even use it to a limited extend in civilan (game) flight sim modeling... And they have plenty of problems modeling aircraft that have TONs of fight data to look at... Yet some think the 109Z would be easy to *model*?

How? Just mixx in two 109G and divide by a P39 and add a I16 and wa-la.. 109Z.... NOT

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FW190fan
04-19-2004, 03:03 PM
Hmmm...I sense that some around here have a big German planes inferiority complex. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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BlitzPig_DDT
04-19-2004, 05:40 PM
Not only that, FW190fan, but a hideous lack of information as well. Not that either should be anything surprising. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

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TAGERT.
04-19-2004, 05:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FW190fan:
Hmmm...I sense that some around here have a big German planes inferiority complex.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Typical... Typical FW190fan paranoia.. Because it is clearly not a dig on the 109Z but on Flight Modeling in general.. In that it clearly said nothing negative about the 109Z.. In summary it simply pointed out that even with lots of FLIGHT DATA a good FM is not easy... Yet some belive that there is enough flight data on the 109Z to model it correctly... I find that hard to belive.. in light of none ever existed! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

So, stand back, count to 10, take a deep breath, and try reading it twice or three times before you respond.. In that maybe your paranoid self might notice it was not a "Lw BAD" topic.. That or try washing them shorts of yours... Maybe your senses are confused by that overwhelming sense of smell? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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TAGERT

|CoB|_Spectre
04-19-2004, 06:57 PM
Not quite sure what the last few posts have to do with the subject of this thread. Please, can we try to stay focused? Thanks