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View Full Version : FW-190 drivers, energy bleed in high speed turns.



XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 09:07 AM
How do you think the 190's energy bleed has changed over the patches in high speed turns?

In FB 1.0 I thought the 190A bled way too much energy. In 1.1b it had very good energy retention and made it a real compeititor. How do you think it is in 1.11? It seems that it has decent energy retention but not as good as in 1.1b which has decreased its effectiveness somewhat. Does this seem accurate or no? How about the Dora?

Keep in mind I am referring to gentle high speed turns, not hard turns as I never do this (nor should anyone in a 190).


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Message Edited on 09/25/0308:15AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 09:07 AM
How do you think the 190's energy bleed has changed over the patches in high speed turns?

In FB 1.0 I thought the 190A bled way too much energy. In 1.1b it had very good energy retention and made it a real compeititor. How do you think it is in 1.11? It seems that it has decent energy retention but not as good as in 1.1b which has decreased its effectiveness somewhat. Does this seem accurate or no? How about the Dora?

Keep in mind I am referring to gentle high speed turns, not hard turns as I never do this (nor should anyone in a 190).


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Message Edited on 09/25/0308:15AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 09:29 AM
AFAIK there were no changes from 1.1b to 1.11. Yes IMO you're right about energy retention. I did tests on Dora flying loopings at about 450 km/h on the stall limit (constant buffeting). I calculated then what it should loose considering a high lift factor and I came to a conclusion that it is very well matched.

There is admittedly an issue concerning elevator effectiveness at speeds above ~700 km/h IAS. Pull-ups from vertical dive can be done too quickly (even there bleed is correct though). This is while, elevator at high speed allows too much and while pilot black-out model reacts too slowly. You can perform this rapid manouver and enjoy the black-out after the manouver /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Furthermore this is also trim issue (again) - P39 can do this as well with trim, for example.

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 12:39 AM
At least in the D9, The Initial bleed is not bad. Your slow ,gentle turns eat more energy than if you fly straight and then snap a hard quick turn and resume straight flight.

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 01:03 AM
I'm enjoying the FW's right now. I always did but its a nice plane to fly aside from that tough to see out of window (rightly or wrongly so - don't want to turn it into one of those argument threads).

Last night I had a ball against the AI at about 8000 meters where I had almost total advantage over the La's and Yaks I was fighting.

It was interesting http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 01:17 AM
I don't really have any difficulties keeping my energy up.I think the a-series are pretty good,they only need a little high-speed effect on control response.
I am not sure about the D-9,I was expecting a little more there.

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 01:26 AM
I agree completely if you look at that elevator it reminds me of a Venetian Blind! Not very effective at high speeds!


Happy hunting and check six!

Tony Ascaso, RN

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 01:51 AM
Able to pull too high Gs - must be addressed.





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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 02:02 AM
The Fw's manuever too well at high speed, but you pay for it by putting your pilot in a coma. So I guess it isn't much of an issue. Energy bleed finally seems about right. Now they just need to fix nearly all the other planes in FB. Especially that damn "P-39", it has no energy bleed at all.

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 04:26 AM
Thanks for the responses.

Maj_Death, I agree that energy bleed seems fairly accurate now, it is just a shame that this doesn't apply to all planes. I have usually felt that the 190 was modelled fairly well (except for a few obvious things like elevator response and zoom/climb in previous versions), and that it was the other planes that are overmodelled (especially in terms of energy bleed).

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Message Edited on 09/26/0303:26AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 06:42 AM
Maj_Death wrote:
- The Fw's manuever too well at high speed, but you
- pay for it by putting your pilot in a coma. So I
- guess it isn't much of an issue. Energy bleed
- finally seems about right. Now they just need to fix
- nearly all the other planes in FB. Especially that
- damn "P-39", it has no energy bleed at all.
-


Yes, did not even note that before a fellow red-whiner brought it to my attention, not a biggie I don't fly that fast all the time anyway /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I just hope and pray that FW does not get a general shagging if they go on and try to tune the elevator. This tends to happen if something is brought to their attention /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

The FM, E-bleed speeds etc in FW are the best model so far in the long history of 1C sims. No wonder there is so little beatching and moaning about it now! Only from the guys getting swatted by it, it's really lethal opponent nowadays. And yes that's historically correct even if it may surprise some /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 09:11 AM
What I wish for the 190:

- a little less roll rate, it's more annoying than an advantage.

- a slightly weaker fuselage.

- slightly stronger wings, they should not break in the middle after a few minor MG shots. Also loss of speed is excessive, when touched by only a few MG shots.

- some ameliorations of the Kommandoger√¬§t, I may be wrong, but I still don't have the impression it's working perfectly.

- about energy retention, it's pretty well done now, I just hope the other aircrafts will get realistic values too. To say the truth, I preferred the situation of patch 1.1

- at high speeds, the elevator is perhaps a little bit too light.

But I must say I'm worried with such frank and honest remarks. I was one of those, back in the IL-2 time, who said that the flaps trick was unrealistic. And what we got instead, a 190 as manoeuvrable in the vertical like the Space Shuttle /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Some words also about the armament.

Mk108 is ok now, perhaps even a little bit too strong, but the 20mm cannons seem to me a little bit weak. Only with the 20mm cannons, it's not easy to make a "one pass" kill.

But for me, the least agreeable aspect is the ueberflash of the fuselage machine guns: you fire these guns, you're blind.

Two solutions:

- even if it is not realistic, I would like to be able to fire only with the wing guns.

- or it could be cool to have at last proper variants of A-8 and A-9 when fitted with MK108's: the fuselage machine guns were removed almost always on these planes to gain weight.

Also some wishes:

- I would like to have an A-8 with the standard canopy.
- I would like to see the Mk108 with its real short tubes.
- I would like to get variants with the outer wing canons removed, but without the ETC and of course with a modification of the performances: an A-8 without outer guns climbed as well and turned as well as a D9.

I would like too a F-9, basically a F-8 with an A-9 engine, just some FM tweaks and it's done.

That's all for now /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,


P.S. Let's forget the infamous bar. It's the most dead horse of all dead horses on this earth!

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 09:20 PM
From 1.1 to 1.11, I've also notice that the good instantanous turn rate is no more really usable because of the fast stall which come very easily /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

In fact, I fly now my 190 like in the original game, straight and fast, but I've forgotten the idea to make turns with the Focke /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

WHY did it change so much from 1.1 to 1.11?

It's sad, I do hope Lock-On will come soon, I'm tired of that!

Cheers,