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dimbismp
09-19-2015, 05:49 PM
What's your opinion on this?

Senningiri_GR
09-19-2015, 05:53 PM
What's your opinion on this?

That it is not a bad idea, but it is more likely that it is another Sage.

Xangr8
09-19-2015, 05:55 PM
Please be Jacob=Jack. This is would be freaking awesome. Our first morally dark Assassin. Darker than Shay, actually.

EmptyCrustacean
09-19-2015, 06:01 PM
I don't understand this poll...

VestigialLlama4
09-19-2015, 06:01 PM
Jack is not Jacob. They are two separate dudes.

CrossedEagle
09-19-2015, 06:02 PM
Why isn't there a Evie=Jack option?

Senningiri_GR
09-19-2015, 06:11 PM
Please be Jacob=Jack. This is would be freaking awesome. Our first morally dark Assassin. Darker than Shay, actually.

It would be really cool. But I don't think that it is going to be so.

LoyalACFan
09-19-2015, 06:16 PM
Please be Jacob=Jack. This is would be freaking awesome. Our first morally dark Assassin. Darker than Shay, actually.

Shay wasn't dark at all, he was actually quite possibly the most idealistic protagonist in the series, and the one who expressed the most regret after committing murder (even though he came across to me as a gigantic hypocrite). On the other hand, Edward was f**king morally bankrupt, robbing and murdering innocent sailors for money, but since he made funny snarky comments people didn't get that (and I think those are the people who say AC4's story was "lighthearted").

But OT, no, I don't think Jacob as Jack is a good idea. Jack the Ripper has no romanticized appeal for me; there's no deep storytelling to be done here, the dude was just some crazed serial killer and that's all there is to it. They've sexed up his myth over the last century to make him seem like this dark and mysterious figure who was somehow more than just a murderous sociopath, but he was basically just a bad guy from a really terrible Criminal Minds episode. If they try to do some moral equivocating in the white room ("but you're a murderer too, Assassin, we're not so very different, you and I") I'm going to puke.

pacmanate
09-19-2015, 06:35 PM
If you started the DLC off as Evie it would give it away from the beginning.

If you started the DLC off as Jacob it shows it isn't Jacob.

Jacob is not Jack.

Alphacos007
09-19-2015, 06:59 PM
He is definitely not Jack.

Xangr8
09-19-2015, 07:44 PM
Why isn't there a Evie=Jack option?
Yeah! Why isn't there such an option?! Gender equality! :P


What's your opinion on this?
I wonder how they got their hands on Jack the Ripper's DNA :rolleyes:

EmbodyingSeven5
09-19-2015, 08:34 PM
. If they try to do some moral equivocating in the white room ("but you're a murderer too, Assassin, we're not so very different, you and I") I'm going to puke.

http://misflix.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/were-not-so-different-you-and-i-300x300.jpg

AherasSTRG
09-20-2015, 12:19 AM
I am not gonna vote, but...

Jack NOT being Jacob is going to be a wasted opportunity.

Also, I don't understand how Jack the Ripper's story was "sexed up" during the 20th century. History is as it is. A man commited the 5 most horrific murders in the history of the UK, stealing ******s, hearts and other organs from his victims. Scotland Yard tried to find the killer but failed to connect the clues.

Jack the Ripper was obviously murderous and psychotic. The DLC can expand that by giving a twisted purpose to his murders. Nothing can stop the writer from making Jack and Jacob be the same person. Then, his twin sister has to put him down.

It's not something new actually. Star Wars literature did it in 2006 when Jaina Solo had to kill her twin brother Jacen Solo, who had become a Darth. And it worked out pretty well, The final scenes depicted in the book were amazing and the relationship between the two made Jaina's situation even more dramatic. If this is done well, it could be one of the best stories ever told in the AC Universe.

I-Like-Pie45
09-20-2015, 12:23 AM
I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct.
I am Jack's Cold Sweat.
I Am Jack's Complete Lack of Surprise.
I Am Jack's Smirking Revenge.
I Am Jack's Broken Heart.

SixKeys
09-20-2015, 03:15 AM
Wait a minute, guys. Didn't Subject 16 say some creepy stuff in the glyphs? "She sees me raise the knife" and "Where, oh where has Jack gone?". Could they be related to Jack the Ripper? :eek:

Fatal-Feit
09-20-2015, 04:37 AM
First of all, yes, this is another Jacob = Jack theory.

Let's start with what we already have to support the theory.

1. Both Jacob and Jack the Ripper shares the same standing and walking animations (and skeleton model).

2. JTR sounds like an older disgruntled Jacob or Paul Amos.

3. The lines ''I love my work, and want to start again.'' may refer to his life as an Assassin who murders with pleasure, assuming it's Jacob.

4. Jacob and JTC shares a similar fashion sense, and both of their top hats are near identical and may be the same one (black with a red sash).

5. The description refers to the protagonist as ''the player'' instead of Jacob or Evie.

6. Jack the Ripper hides his face.

Now, moving on to what I discovered:

While I was skimming through random YT videos, I came across the IT (Italian) channel for AC and accidentally watched the JTR and the twins trailers nearly side by side (tried to find the US ver), and something that shocked me was that the VA for both JTR and Jacob were the same. There was almost no hiding it. I thought to myself, it could have been a misunderstanding. Maybe they sound the same because I don't understand Italian? Well, I took the time to search up the other various languages (French, Russian, etc), and what do you know, they're the same VAs, all of them! ES (Spanish) was the worse offender because the VA for Jacob has a VERY distinct voice and there was no way of masking that in the JTR trailer. :p French didn't even try. All that changed was audio setup they used. It was like me going from my standard headset to a decent recording microphone.

So, if you think JTR sounded unusually like Paul Amos in the trailer, know that the other languages did a worse job of hiding the reused VA.

Continuing on, I shared my findings and was encouraged to keep digging. What I found next was very intriguing. Here's the concept art for JTR.

http://i.imgur.com/isOjKmr.jpg

That's right. It's an Assassin insignia and a hidden blade! P.S: That's also how hidden blades were drawn in other concept arts.

Still not convinced?

http://i.imgur.com/xHxABt9.jpg

I was able to find a high res picture of JTR's face and played around with the saturation so I can see the face a lot better.

1. JTR shares the same facial features/anatomy as Jacob.

2. They both share the scar above the right eye.

http://i.imgur.com/NKOiRnT.jpg

Are all of these enough evidence for you? Still don't believe? Discuss.

Special thanks to GoldenBoy and Altair1789 for the help with these discoveries.

Namikaze_17
09-20-2015, 04:47 AM
Nah.

Altair1789
09-20-2015, 04:52 AM
The eyebrow wasn't really good evidence imo, it's not very visible

So Jack the Ripper's accent is actually very similar to Jacob's, they say things pretty similarly. This could be due to Paul Amos doing Jack and Jacob's voices (which wouldn't necessarily mean anything), or both that and that Jacob is Jack. The thing is, what could've happened to make Jacob sound like this? I believe that Jacob was exposed to some chemical, maybe while doing something for Darwin or using the hallucinogenic darts or whatever. It could've burned his face (thus the mask. But then again who wouldn't wear a mask while murdering innocent people) and damaged his throat, making him sound like this. That's all I'm contributing, I'm going to try to stay away from confirmation, I don't want to play through the entire game knowing the protagonist will become a psychotic sadist obsessed with killing prostitutes.

For those of you who would also like to be unsure about this, here are some flaws with the theory:

1. Animations don't mean much with Ubisoft. Arno and Jacob have the same animations

2. Could be due to the voice actors for the English version being the same, just like the voice actors for the translated versions being the same. Maybe it's the same voice actor because they loved Paul Amos' work and experience

3. He wouldn't be saying this now, as the ripper. That'd be pre-ripper talk. Plus, why wouldn't he continue his work by staying with the assassins?

6. He's a notorious murderer, if someone witnesses a ripper murdering and knows what he looks like, there'll be posters on ever corner

The assassin's insignia could be a fold, or just a design. It only kinda resembles an assassin's insignia. Jack could join the assassins, or be a former assassin and acquire the hidden blade. The eyebrow stuff isn't really anything. That looks like a loose thread from the mask

This is powerful evidence, but I can definitely see it go either way


Nah.

Nami you're in the skype chat where we discussed this stuff

Namikaze_17
09-20-2015, 05:04 AM
Nami you're in the skype chat where we discussed this stuff

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh

GoldenBoy9999
09-20-2015, 05:13 AM
One could also say Jacob isn't Jack because that would drastically lower the amount of fans he has if he turns out to be a serial killer. The whole thing would be a pretty big risk and hard to pull off.

I'd like to commend Fatal on his research. He found some really interesting things and it was fun discussing them with the group. I'm not 100% sold yet, but I'd say there is a good amount of evidence that points to this link. I haven't commented on this Jack the Ripper DLC on the forums, but I think it's pretty cool how they're incorporating him and if Jacob is indeed Jack that would be an interesting twist.

How would that guys make you feel if Ubi has let out a major spoiler in their Season Pass trailer once again?

Altair1789
09-20-2015, 05:16 AM
How would that guys make you feel if Ubi has let out a major spoiler in their Season Pass trailer once again?

I think it's now a rule of thumb to never watch a Ubisoft season pass trailer

VestigialLlama4
09-20-2015, 05:18 AM
Are all of these enough evidence for you? Still don't believe? Discuss.

Special thanks to GoldenBoy and Altair1789 for the help with these discoveries.

Interesting stuff. This is kind of the first information that makes me think it could actually be a possibility. To me the English VA doesn't sound like Paul Amos. It sounds like Steve Piovesan.

Fatal-Feit
09-20-2015, 05:19 AM
So Jack the Ripper's accent is actually very similar to Jacob's, they say things pretty similarly. This could be due to Paul Amos doing Jack and Jacob's voices (which wouldn't necessarily mean anything), or both that and that Jacob is Jack. The thing is, what could've happened to make Jacob sound like this? I believe that Jacob was exposed to some chemical, maybe while doing something for Darwin or using the hallucinogenic darts or whatever. It could've burned his face (thus the mask. But then again who wouldn't wear a mask while murdering innocent people) and damaged his throat, making him sound like this. That's all I'm contributing, I'm going to try to stay away from confirmation, I don't want to play through the entire game knowing the protagonist will become a psychotic sadist obsessed with killing prostitutes.

Heh, what if ''the player'' is Evie and we've only unraveled half of the story? =p


For those of you who would also like to be unsure about this, here are some flaws with the theory:

1. Animations don't mean much with Ubisoft. Arno and Jacob have the same animations

Here's the thing, though. JTR isn't going to be a playable character, as far as we know, so they wouldn't reuse a main protagonist's skeleton model and animations for an NPC unless it's an already established character. Adewale in FC, for example, made sense because he was the protagonist, but when he was an NPC in Rogue, he used standard NPC animations.

Oooor, perhaps this is evidence that we may actually play as JTR. Could be both.


2. Could be due to the voice actors for the English version being the same, just like the voice actors for the translated versions being the same. Maybe it's the same voice actor because they loved Paul Amos' work and experience

I'm not sure. Ubisoft isn't that cheap. And considering how poor the VAs are in other languages (apparently), I don't think this would have been a good choice. Although, IF this is a self-contained narrative that has no relation to Jacob and Evie, you may be onto something.


3. He wouldn't be saying this now, as the ripper. That'd be pre-ripper talk. Plus, why wouldn't he continue his work by staying with the assassins?


It's a quote from the trailer so it could have been said at any point in time. Also, remember Jacob doesn't believe in the Assassins as much as Evie. He seems to be more invested in the bloodshed than the political aspects of the Assassins.


6. He's a notorious murderer

Yeah, there's no explanation here. =p


The assassin's insignia could be a fold, or just a design. It only kinda resembles an assassin's insignia. Jack could join the assassins, or be a former assassin and acquire the hidden blade.

These also are plausible.


The eyebrow stuff isn't really anything. That looks like a loose thread from the mask

That's what I thought at first, but when I was editing the image, I realized it was a scar. Zoom in, the threads and the scar are not the same.


This is powerful evidence, but I can definitely see it go either way

Yep. I'm personally more concerned with how well the narrative holds.

Namikaze_17
09-20-2015, 05:23 AM
It sounds like Steve Piovesan.

Yep.

VestigialLlama4
09-20-2015, 05:27 AM
Wait a minute, guys. Didn't Subject 16 say some creepy stuff in the glyphs? "She sees me raise the knife" and "Where, oh where has Jack gone?". Could they be related to Jack the Ripper? :eek:

"Where, oh where has Jack gone?" refers to JFK. Kennedy was popular known as Jack Kennedy (because, Jack is used as a substitute for John). It comes in the Oswald file, "The wolves are out hunting, where oh where has Jack gone?".

As for "she sees me raise the knife" that comes from a Subject 16 flashback at an opera I believe, and it could be generic because the Assassins did attack women targets in the past.

Remember Patrice Desilets said that SYNDICATE was a stranger Assassin's Creed because he never considered going to the Victorian era, so there never was any intentional reference to Jack the Ripper before this game. The English period that was heavily foreshadowed was the Elizabethan era since Elizabeth had an Apple as per the glyphs, and John Dee is part of the Project Legacy thing. But now we'll never get that.

GunnerGalactico
09-20-2015, 07:44 AM
I'm still not convinced that it's Jacob. Only time will tell, though. :nonchalance:

BananaBlighter
09-20-2015, 09:02 AM
Hmmm, I'm not convinced with the eyebrow scar. I downloaded the image and went close up, but all I can make out is what seems to be a loose piece of cloth dangling in front of his eyelid.

Honestly, I don't wanrt to believe it. From what I've seen of Jacob I don't understand how he would become a sadistic psychopath.

Also, the hidden blade in the image is on the wrong hand. Either Jack is special, or it's not a hidden blade. It could just be the way he's holding his knife.

Farlander1991
09-20-2015, 09:05 AM
What about the fact that Jacob has brown eyes and Jack has grey?

VestigialLlama4
09-20-2015, 09:20 AM
What about the fact that Jacob has brown eyes and Jack has grey?

Animus glitch? Or maybe he's Jacob Renanimated, like brought back via Shroud of Eden with his mind bent and set loose by Templars whoever. That would solve the story issues of Jacob going evil. It could also be that he's possessed by Consus, that first Civ guy who likes changing people's bodies and faces to resemble his.

But I don't know attributing the Ripper killings to a monster seems wrong somehow and by making Jacob either a willing/unwilling serial killer, the focus is on the killer and not his victims.

pacmanate
09-20-2015, 10:41 AM
Ubisoft plays with History. It doesn't make a fictional character a real life person :|

Senningiri_GR
09-20-2015, 10:46 AM
Well, here his eyes are in Jack's color:
http://cdn.gamerant.com/wp-content/uploads/Assassins-Creed-Syndicate-Jacob-Top-Hat.jpg
Now I am convinced...

VestigialLlama4
09-20-2015, 10:49 AM
Well, here his eyes are in Jack's color:
http://cdn.gamerant.com/wp-content/uploads/Assassins-Creed-Syndicate-Jacob-Top-Hat.jpg
Now I am convinced...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxCnMfR1VuU

The Twin Assassins make his eyes to be hazel brown. There are close-ups of it. Evie's eyes are green-blue whereas Jack has gray-blue icy eyes.

Incidentally, Hazel Brown and Green Blue together form the Sage's eyes.

In any case, Ubisoft's team have made mistakes on eye renders. Like Jacques de Molay as per Darby McDevitt should have had Sage Eyes but they forgot to add it in. Some of the Sage Eyes were later seen in random AC recruits.

Farlander1991
09-20-2015, 10:55 AM
Well, here his eyes are in Jack's color:
Now I am convinced...

Well, the lighting is dim and his eyes are under shadow from the hat, but it's questionable that it's Jack's color - the contrast between the pupil and the iris is too small for it not to be a brown or dark color.

Sorrosyss
09-20-2015, 10:57 AM
Hehe, interesting compilation. ;)

My thoughts;

1) Jacob reuses Arno's animations too. Wouldn't read too much into it.

2) I don't hear Paul Amos at all. May just be me, but that definitely sounds like someone else to me.

3) No clue on this, we have no context. Could be spoken in the middle of his killing spree.

4) Was the fashion at the time for top hats, interesting though.

5) I still argue this is because we are playing another Assassin like in Freedom Cry for AC4.

6) I imagine most serial killers do. :p

7) The VA's for other languages is interesting though. Not sure what to say about that. It could simply be they haven't cast for the other languages yet, but that seems a stretch.

8) I see the loose stitching but not the scar. But I'm looking on a tablet right now... So... :p That defo looks like an Assassin logo on the back of the coat though. Hmmm.

Well, it would be interesting if it is Jacob. They would have to be so careful with how it is written though, given the well known facts about the Ripper.

In my view, if this were to happen, it would be like I suggested in a separate thread about Sages and the Shroud of Eden. We know that the Sage plotline is still the main focus, and indeed why Abstergo is looking at this time period. We still don't know who it is though.

Now if the Shroud attempted to heal a Sage as it is renowned to do, logically it would repair the First Civilization DNA. If Jacob were the Sage, this would explain the change in eye colour, the voice, the mannerisms as Aita would have taken over. We also know from Clay, and other Sages that they like to write messages all over walls - hence the blood in the trailer. Or indeed Consus could have taken over as Vestigial suggested.

I suppose the other scenario is that it is not Jacob at all. From the brief snippets of the narrative, we know the twins were trying to find the Shroud as it supposedly could heal and resurrect. What if they tried to use it on their recently passed father? There we have another Assassin, and it would explain the same taste in attire as his son, as well as the white hair.

Or it could be just someone else completely. Just an ordinary Joe, who went off the rails. Or a Templar surgeon, as the From Hell movie/novel kind of suggested.

I'm enjoying the speculation anyhoo. :D

Farlander1991
09-20-2015, 11:01 AM
Honestly, though, I think the similarities between Jacob and Jack, both in names and appearance, are deliberate by Ubisoft just to cause this kind of speculation. We'll see if it actually turns out the case to be that way :D

Consus_E
09-20-2015, 11:03 AM
It does make sense that Jacob would start murdering prostitutes, they already borrowed car chases, gang activity, character switching, and heist/robbery missions from GTA V. :rolleyes:

Prediction:

Jacob: "Oh no! I'm bloody dying over here, damn you plot!"
Evie: "NOOOOOOOOOOO! Wait I can still save him with the McGuffin of Eden."
Henry: "Wait he might come back... But not as the Jacob you know!"
Evie: "Dammit Henry I can't let him die, blah blah, it's all my fault, blah blah, he's my brother!"
Jacob: "I see light! It's a bloody marvelous time not to be alive..." *Dead
Evie: "No I won't let you go!" *Uses McGuffin on Jacob
Henry: "No wait don't!"
Jacob: Ahhhh by Victoria's knickers, I'm alive. Can I kill some prostitutes now?"
Evie: He's alive! Yeah! Alright now brother don't you become all psychotic now you little scamp..."
Jacob: Of course not! Now hows about we quit this posh gig and kill some prostit- er get some beer?
Evie: Sure brother! Just please remember what I said about being crazy, no becoming a vile murderer forcing me to hunt you down in twenty years!"
Jacob: What's that I should murder courtesans two decades from now? Okay! :p
Henry: *Sigh "I miss India. Pre order Assassin's Creed India 2016!"

More or less how I picture the transformation... Perhaps instead Jackob runs off in the end laughing maniacally while Evie looks on in horror saying something like "What have I done"

VestigialLlama4
09-20-2015, 11:28 AM
Honestly, though, I think the similarities between Jacob and Jack, both in names and appearance, are deliberate by Ubisoft just to cause this kind of speculation. We'll see if it actually turns out the case to be that way :D

In a funny way, it mirrors the real-life speculation on Jack the Ripper's identity. The difference is that eventually, we get to find out who he is, in the AC universe at least.

One thing about the Ripper's appearance is that it does look a lot like this famous cartoon of that time
:https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Jack-the-Ripper-The-Nemesis-of-Neglect-Punch-London-Charivari-cartoon-poem-1888-09-29.jpg


It does make sense that Jacob would start murdering prostitutes, they already borrowed car chases, gang activity, character switching, and heist/robbery missions from GTA V. :rolleyes:

That's accurate, weirdly enough. Goes to show how far games are from reality. A guy murders 5 prostitutes in Victorian London and starts a cultural panic that shocks the conscience of that time, in the GTA world, you do that and it doesn't matter...sheesh.


Henry: *Sigh "I miss India. Pre order Assassin's Creed India 2016!"

Nope. Next game is China/Japan 2016!


More or less how I picture the transformation... Perhaps instead Jackob runs off in the end laughing maniacally while Evie looks on in horror saying something like "What have I done"

And Henry Green will say, "Could this be any more of a B movie?"

Consus_E
09-20-2015, 11:41 AM
Plot twist:

DLC opens, Jacob begins hunting Jack. During the missions Jacob never personally sees the ripper and always seems to catch up to him late. He encounters Evie two thirds of the way through the DLC and they begin working together just like old times. Jacob and Evie arrive at Jack's lair and split up to search. Jacob encounters the Ripper and takes him on alone. After the fight the Ripper escapes with Jacob pursuing him. He finds himself in a large "hall of fame" room where the ripper keeps trophies from his murders. Jacob is taunted by the disembodied voice of Jack the Ripper. While angrily trying to find the killer he discovers evidence of Evie being one of his victims in the room. And it is here that he realizes he has been the ripper all along, the Evie he's been seeing this entire time has been a phantom brought about by the guilt Jacob has over Jack's murders. Accepting what he has done, Jacob leaves London to hide away from the world and live a life of peace.

TLDR Jacob pursues the Ripper only to realize that he and Jack are one and the same. Jack murdered Evie and a guilty Jacob is haunted by her ghost.

ModernWaffle
09-20-2015, 11:46 AM
I really can't see Ubisoft turning Jacob into an antagonist. They've always tried to make us support the AC protagonists and the best I can hope for is that Jacob is like Edward - he's brash and maybe somewhat selfish at the beginning, but something pivotal happens in the storyline and he starts changing.

If you go by Jacob being JTR, then the main storyline of Syndicate will have to portray him as an overall villain for the setup of the DLC, but this means his character development will probably be handled poorly where he goes from being an ambitious and reckless young man to a straight out generic evil person that wants power who doesn't mind the act of murder. This will make him the worst AC protagonist by far and hence I can't see Ubisoft doing this.

Consus_E
09-20-2015, 11:50 AM
And Henry Green will say, "Could this be any more of a B movie?"

Ubisoft presents
From the writers who brought you Assassin's Creed Unity's ending :p

VestigialLlama4
09-20-2015, 11:57 AM
Plot twist:

DLC opens, Jacob begins hunting Jack. During the missions Jacob never personally sees the ripper and always seems to catch up to him late. He encounters Evie two thirds of the way through the DLC and they begin working together just like old times. Jacob and Evie arrive at Jack's lair and split up to search. Jacob encounters the Ripper and takes him on alone. After the fight the Ripper escapes with Jacob pursuing him. He finds himself in a large "hall of fame" room where the ripper keeps trophies from his murders. Jacob is taunted by the disembodied voice of Jack the Ripper. While angrily trying to find the killer he discovers evidence of Evie being one of his victims in the room. And it is here that he realizes he has been the ripper all along, the Evie he's been seeing this entire time has been a phantom brought about by the guilt Jacob has over Jack's murders. Accepting what he has done, Jacob leaves London to hide away from the world and live a life of peace.

TLDR Jacob pursues the Ripper only to realize that he and Jack are one and the same. Jack murdered Evie and a guilty Jacob is haunted by her ghost.

Too Silent Hill/Bioshock Infinite, "I was the bad guy" etc. In any case, the animus shows reality, it does not really show that kind of constant hallucinations.

Farlander1991
09-20-2015, 12:00 PM
Too Silent Hill/Bioshock Infinite, "I was the bad guy" etc. In any case, the animus shows reality, it does not really show that kind of constant hallucinations.

ToKW was a constant hallucination :p ;)

Animus shows memories. So it will show Apple's visions like in ToKW and drunken hallucinations like in BF as long as they're part of the ancestors memory.

VestigialLlama4
09-20-2015, 12:13 PM
ToKW was a constant hallucination :p ;)

Animus shows memories. So it will show Apple's visions like in ToKW and drunken hallucinations like in BF as long as they're part of the ancestors memory.

That's exactly my point. What we see in the Apple of Eden in TOKW and Edward's drunk monologue is a single hallucination. One fairly memorable dream sequence with a clear start and end point.

Evie being Jacob's hallucination from Syndicate through JTR is a constant hallucination, comparable to Joker in Arkham Knight or other games with the It-was-me-all-along twist (Spec Ops, Mark of the Ninja). It means that the Animus interface treats her as a real person and the like and the game is lying to us. That essentially means that the premise right from AC1 that the Animus shows things as it did happen is not true, and what we see are entirely subjective.

AherasSTRG
09-20-2015, 12:17 PM
I am Jack's Raging Bile Duct.
I am Jack's Cold Sweat.
I Am Jack's Complete Lack of Surprise.
I Am Jack's Smirking Revenge.
I Am Jack's Broken Heart.

I-Like-Pie makes a great point. Jacob/Jack could be bipolar, like Jack from Fight Club.

Farlander1991
09-20-2015, 12:28 PM
That essentially means that the premise right from AC1 that the Animus shows things as it did happen is not true, and what we see are entirely subjective.

AC1 itself is kinda purposefully vague over the matter of truth Animus provides, that's a whole theme in the game - the matter of truth and illusion. We have a conversation between Vidic and Desmond where Vidic says that Animus leaves no room for misinterpretation, but Desmond says that there's always room. There's also subjective scenes in the game: 1) the stabbing of Altair by Al Mualim in the beginning (he's got no wound from that, so obviously that particular part wasn't real, but it's what he remembers), 2) during Al Mualim's boss fight when the targets appear to fight us, after death they transform into normal assassins - meaning that they ACTUALLY were assassins all along, controlled by Al Mualim, but Altair specifically remembers them as the targets he killed. Those scenes are derived from subjectivity of being in Altair's shoes.

You can count those as 'one time hallucinations' of course (though we never know the truth behind the stabbing and what happened inbetween), but the point is, ever since from AC1, there was always a matter of 'eeeeeeeh' when it comes to certainty of Animus' objectivity.

Consus_E
09-20-2015, 01:04 PM
In any case, the animus shows reality, It does not really show that kind of constant hallucinations.

The animus once showed us a memory of Connor using Native American super powers to fight George Washington and his magic scepter atop a Pyramid... What?

AherasSTRG
09-20-2015, 01:16 PM
First of all, Tyranny of King Washington was not a hallucination. It was an actual world fabricated by the Apple. Connor DID live in that world for what seemed to him like the span of 3+ days.

Secondly, Tyrannyof King Washington was NOT given to us through the animus. It was the simple retelling of a story. The Animus has nothing to do with it. No Assassin or Templar have knowledge of that part of Connor's life.

VestigialLlama4
09-20-2015, 01:26 PM
The animus once showed us a memory of Connor using Native American super powers to fight George Washington and his magic scepter atop a Pyramid... What?

As I told Farlander, what we see in the Apple of Eden in TOKW and Edward's drunk monologue is a single hallucination in a fixed moment of space-time. One fairly memorable dream sequence with a clear start and end point. Essentially there's a difference between events which are totally fantasy (a drunk dream, an Apple vision) and being so mentally imbalanced, that you hallucinate a fictitous sister following you around free roam, who also register as solid objects in Eagle Vision and likewise tricks the Animus into thinking she's a separate person to the point the Animus renders her as separate.

In the former case, you are only temporarily affected, in the latter you are playing someone whose sense of reality is so off they can't separate reality from fantasy. You know movies like Fight Club or Shutter Island. There's a difference between hallucinations that are externally influenced, like by a Magic Apple or by alcohol and internal hallucinations because of mental illness. Even with stuff like Juan Borgia and Consus, and the Thom Kavanagh letters with the Sage, there is a clear separation between reality and Consus. Juan Borgia knows that no one but him can see Consus, that's how we know that Juan is not insane and Consus is a real First Civ being. Thom Kavanagh likewise distinguishes between the Sage's memories and his reality.

There are clear rules before this and to me this particular thing is kind of cheating, it's going beyond what was earlier established as basic ground rules.

The only way to truly do this is to make it in Modern Day, you know, no Animus filter separating players from the simulation. Without the Animus and the fact that it shows us the truth, you can have the subjective element, like Desmond seeing visions of Altair via Bleeding Effect, or following Ezio's phantom underneath Monteriggioni, or his Animus Coma.


First of all, Tyranny of King Washington was not a hallucination. It was an actual world fabricated by the Apple. Connor DID live in that world for what seemed to him like the span of 3+ days.

Secondly, Tyrannyof King Washington was NOT given to us through the animus. It was the simple retelling of a story. The Animus has nothing to do with it. No Assassin or Templar have knowledge of that part of Connor's life.

The Tyranny DLC was clearly described in Black Flag as a "calculation", an alternate future occassionally fabricated by the Apple. So it did happen, a shared hallucination between Connor and Washington. It wasn't an actual alternate universe at all. We definitely interact with it through the Animus, since the interface is visibly consistent with it. The Templars definitely know about it, since Connor's Wolf outfit is used by Abstergo for internal memos and the opening screen of Unity, "Washington and the Wolf".

Farlander1991
09-20-2015, 01:36 PM
First of all, Tyranny of King Washington was not a hallucination. It was an actual world fabricated by the Apple. Connor DID live in that world for what seemed to him like the span of 3+ days.

Secondly, Tyrannyof King Washington was NOT given to us through the animus. It was the simple retelling of a story. The Animus has nothing to do with it. No Assassin or Templar have knowledge of that part of Connor's life.

Hallucination/world created by the Apple is semantics. It was something not real that Connor thought was real, which is why it was implanted in his memories.

And just because there's no modern day counterpart related to it, doesn't mean that it's not viewed through the Animus - just like Bloodlines, Discovery, Liberation, - they're all related to the Animus one way or the other (even if we don't know who views them, though I guess it's clearer in case of Liberation - as we're kinda playing an Abstergo console there). Plus, ToKW is referenced IIRC in some future titles as well.

There's only one instance of a historical part not being told through the animus, and that's when Desmond has bleeding effect in AC2 and sees himself in the shoes of Altair.


There are clear rules before this and to me this particular thing is kind of cheating, it's going beyond what was earlier established as basic ground rules.

As I've mentioned, the game that sets those rules, that being AC1, purposefully muddles them a bit and makes us question them - not only with one of the themes of AC1 regarding truth and illusion, but by having the protagonist himself say that there's always room for misinterpretation to the antagonist who believes there's none, as well as showing some scenes that would be subjective to the person who possesses the memory and not the 'actual truth'

Locopells
09-20-2015, 01:39 PM
As for "she sees me raise the knife" that comes from a Subject 16 flashback at an opera I believe, and it could be generic because the Assassins did attack women targets in the past.

I'll have to go back and check the context, but I've always taken that as Lucy seeing 16/Clay kill himself (presumably while still connected to the Animus).

AherasSTRG
09-20-2015, 01:46 PM
Hallucination/world created by the Apple is semantics. It was something not real that Connor thought was real, which is why it was implanted in his memories

That's what I mean.


Plus, ToKW is referenced IIRC in some future titles as well.

Where are they referenced?

VestigialLlama4
09-20-2015, 01:56 PM
As I've mentioned, the game that sets those rules, that being AC1, purposefully muddles them a bit and makes us question them - not only with one of the themes of AC1 regarding truth and illusion, but by having the protagonist himself say that there's always room for misinterpretation to the antagonist who believes there's none, as well as showing some scenes that would be subjective to the person who possesses the memory and not the 'actual truth'

I always saw that more in general terms rather than the Animus being deceptive. After all, even William Miles says at the start of AC3 that the Animus really does show the past.

I mean it's the fallacy people make when discussing the unreliable narrator which some people think only in terms of the extremes of Keyser Soze, where he's totally lying. The fact is that interpretations exist because everybody only sees part of the truth and doesn't really know "the other side", and that's what AC1 is about. We see Altair's memories and his interactions but we don't really see other things around him and we only learn by him, and who knows if you have multiple DNA from the same era, you can maybe have a more objective picture of that time. Like Altair finds out that some of the Templars are not really as bad as he thought, that Al Mualim is not as nice as he was either.

Like you know you have AC3, and you know you have Haytham's memories and then Connor's memories. Some people said that the characterization of the Templars in Connor's memories is so far from Haytham's that it's coloured by Connor's subjectivity. But the answer is more prosaic, in front of Haytham, the Templars, including Charles Lee, behave themselves and are extra nice, but in front of Little Connor, this powerless mohawk kid, they don't have that obligation and social pressures to be nice, so they drop pretenses. This is true of life, you have people who perfectly nice to their family and friends but total monsters to everybody else. But that doesn't mean that either Haytham's memories or Connor's memories are subjective or biased. I am sure if you had a DNA of a British Redcoat, Connor will be some kind of monster/phantom and crazed killer, and that would be true to their experience. So that's why there is always room for interpretation in the Animus.

But in terms of separating reality/illusion, I think that difference is more clear and exact

GunnerGalactico
09-20-2015, 01:58 PM
I don't thnk that Jacob is JTR.

Farlander1991
09-20-2015, 02:07 PM
But in terms of separating reality/illusion, I think that difference is more clear and exact

Here's the thing, though. Animus showed us at least one clear lie in AC1. When Al Mualim stabs Altair, that didn't happen. Altair thinks it happened (and he remembers it that way, and Animus shows it), but there was no wound or proof that the act of stabbing happened, it was an illusion Al Mualim has made by the apple, he even says that Altair saw only what he wanted him to see. It's not different points of view or interpretation, it's blatantly a thing that did not and could not happen in reality, but we saw it because Altair thinks that's what happened. We never know how it really went down at that moment. So Animus deceived us at least once already at the very beginning.

The situation with targets during the boss battle is a bit less blatant, as while Altair perceives those Assassins as his dead targets, the illusionary masks disappear after he kills them. But it's still subjective perception of Altair, and not the truth.

VestigialLlama4
09-20-2015, 02:28 PM
Here's the thing, though. Animus showed us at least one clear lie in AC1. When Al Mualim stabs Altair, that didn't happen. Altair thinks it happened (and he remembers it that way, and Animus shows it), but there was no wound or proof that the act of stabbing happened, it was an illusion Al Mualim has made by the apple, he even says that Altair saw only what he wanted him to see. It's not different points of view or interpretation, it's blatantly a thing that did not and could not happen in reality, but we saw it because Altair thinks that's what happened. We never know how it really went down at that moment. So Animus deceived us at least once already at the very beginning.

The situation with targets during the boss battle is a bit less blatant, as while Altair perceives those Assassins as his dead targets, the illusionary masks disappear after he kills them. But it's still subjective perception of Altair, and not the truth.

Well remember what Al Mualim tells Altair at the end of the game, that he did try to use the Apple on Altair but it didn't work because he "saw through the illusion" and he says that all the Apple does is show illusions and that Altair was the only one who could pierce it. So the point is not that Altair doesn't see illusions or stuff, its that it doesn't last and he can tell reality apart. And through him, the Animus can tell reality apart.

But maybe that's one for gameplay and story. That maybe there should have been a way for us by hitting a cutscene trigger (those shimmering stuff in AC1 which gave us a close-up) to give Altair a picture of the reality around him, like in the stabbing scene he should have flashed out and seen the office around him. It reminds me of Arkham City, there's this boss fight between Ra's al Ghul and Batman, and its similar in that both characters have a relationship like Al Mualim and Altair, and Ra's al Ghul and his League was modelled on the historical Asasiyun as well. During the fight there's this hallucination of multiple Ra's fighting Batman, and occassionally when Batman hits the real Ra's, the entire dream-desert-background disappears and we see the real laboratory around them before flashing back to the desert.

Maybe there should be more stuff like that to clarify it.

Farlander1991
09-20-2015, 02:38 PM
Well remember what Al Mualim tells Altair at the end of the game, that he did try to use the Apple on Altair but it didn't work because he "saw through the illusion" and he says that all the Apple does is show illusions and that Altair was the only one who could pierce it.

But that was an answer in relation to taking Altair's mind and will away. Illusions still affected him, with the one at the beginning affecting him most (probably because he wasn't wise enough yet to try and pierce illusions). The thing is - that moment shows Altair's personal perception of reality. Something that didn't happen, he thought happens, but in reality something absolutely different happened (that is different from a dream or a vision, that's reality itself that was changed for him). With a literal blank space between that moment and the moment when he becomes conscious in Al Mualim's library, it is established that he has no idea what happened inbetween those moments (therefore Animus can't probably show them). The Evie is dead but Jacob sees her idea follows the same principle - it's Jacob's perception of reality, and we've already established that Animus can show stuff like that.

VestigialLlama4
09-20-2015, 02:58 PM
But that was an answer in relation to taking Altair's mind and will away. Illusions still affected him, with the one at the beginning affecting him most (probably because he wasn't wise enough yet to try and pierce illusions). The thing is - that moment shows Altair's personal perception of reality. Something that didn't happen, he thought happens, but in reality something absolutely different happened (that is different from a dream or a vision, that's reality itself that was changed for him). With a literal blank space between that moment and the moment when he becomes conscious in Al Mualim's library, it is established that he has no idea what happened inbetween those moments (therefore Animus can't probably show them). The Evie is dead but Jacob sees her idea follows the same principle - it's Jacob's perception of reality, and we've already established that Animus can show stuff like that.

In the case of Altair, that still came about as a result of the Apple though. It wasn't that Altair was insane, he was affected by an external object, and we later see the Apple in MD and that works just the way we see it in Animus. In the case of Jacob it most certainly would come from being nuts, or maybe he's a Sage and his mind got fragmented somehow. Maybe Jacob has the same heterochromia but his mind is separating Brown (Jacob) and Green-Blue(Evie) to make him deny his nature?

But anyway, that's what I feel about it. I do agree that the theme of illusion and reality is there in the Animus, I just am not sure if it goes as far or radically as this would take it. That's all. It would be interesting if all this comes in the game, because my feeling is that ubisoft want something light and safe after Unity with both characters alive and useful for future use. But looking back, I think we could consider this a theory that would have made the game interesting.

HDinHB
09-20-2015, 06:29 PM
Jacob's eyes:
http://orig09.deviantart.net/ffb4/f/2015/217/6/b/jacob_frye_by_shatinn-d949yx0.gif

Someone beat me to the concept, but I was going to suggest, if they do make Jacob/Jack, a Jekyll/Hyde version would be most appropriate. It was published in 1886 and was being performed on stage in London when the Ripper murders started.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Dr_Jekyll_and_Mr_Hyde_poster_edit2.jpg/1024px-Dr_Jekyll_and_Mr_Hyde_poster_edit2.jpg

Xangr8
09-20-2015, 08:54 PM
I'm totally convinced that Jacob is Jack. I mean just look at the name :P

SixKeys
09-20-2015, 09:01 PM
Another theory: what if something happens between Jacob and Evie that separates them for 20 years (like an argument), then in the DLC we play as Evie who's heard about JTR and she thinks it might be her brother because he's always been the more aggressive of the two. So she suspects but doesn't know for sure, then in the end it turns out it's not actually Jacob and the real Jacob might show up and they would hunt Jack down together.

It just seems to me like we're supposed to believe Jack = Jacob, so there's all sorts of vagueness (same voice actor in different languages, references to "the player" instead of Evie or Jacob, visual similarities/animations etc.), maybe to encourage speculation. But would Ubi really go as far as making one of their iconic assassins a brutal serial killer? I doubt it.

I would love to be proven wrong, though, as I think it'd be a ballsy move, on par with something like TLoU. Could finally give us a true morally grey perspective on the assassins: Jacob starting out as the "hero" but already showing signs of aggression and instability when he's still one of the 'good guys', and then he starts growing more and more obsessed with killing until it has nothing to do with political reasons anymore. Basically pulling a Haytham on us, but on a much more disturbing scale.

BananaBlighter
09-20-2015, 09:08 PM
Another theory: what if something happens between Jacob and Evie that separates them for 20 years (like an argument), then in the DLC we play as Evie who's heard about JTR and she thinks it might be her brother because he's always been the more aggressive of the two. So she suspects but doesn't know for sure, then in the end it turns out it's not actually Jacob and the real Jacob might show up and they would hunt Jack down together.

It just seems to me like we're supposed to believe Jack = Jacob, so there's all sorts of vagueness (same voice actor in different languages, references to "the player" instead of Evie or Jacob, visual similarities/animations etc.), maybe to encourage speculation. But would Ubi really go as far as making one of their iconic assassins a brutal serial killer? I doubt it.

I would love to be proven wrong, though, as I think it'd be a ballsy move, on par with something like TLoU. Could finally give us a true morally grey perspective on the assassins: Jacob starting out as the "hero" but already showing signs of aggression and instability when he's still one of the 'good guys', and then he starts growing more and more obsessed with killing until it has nothing to do with political reasons anymore. Basically pulling a Haytham on us, but on a much more disturbing scale.

This theory would work, since, if we start as Evie it is obvious (or so we think it i) that Jack is Jacob.

Altair1789
09-21-2015, 12:59 AM
What about the fact that Jacob has brown eyes and Jack has grey?

Jack's eye color isn't exactly known, Fatal's image was just enhanced a little bit and the original one had that winter-y effect

Xangr8
09-21-2015, 03:45 AM
Jack's eye color isn't exactly known, Fatal's image was just enhanced a little bit and the original one had that winter-y effect
You can clearly make out from the promo images that his eyes are hazel grey-ish. At leat to me, they are.

RVSage
09-21-2015, 07:19 AM
I have to agree there is a possibility Jacob == Jack, But more than Jacob, I guess Jack is related to the Shroud.

Maybe one of the templars who dies in the main story line, is resurrected and driven crazy by the shroud?

Either way the Shroud could have Lazarus pit effect? Drives the revived crazy? Needless to say there are already some batman like things hanging around this game

SixKeys
09-21-2015, 07:33 AM
I have to agree there is a possibility Jacob == Jack, But more than Jacob, I guess Jack is related to the Shroud.

Maybe one of the templars who dies in the main story line, is resurrected and driven crazy by the shroud?

Either way the Shroud could have Lazarus pit effect? Drives the revived crazy? Needless to say there are already some batman like things hanging around this game

IIRC the Shroud can't revive dead people, only bring them back from the brink of death. They used the Shroud on Giovanni Borgia when he was a baby and he turned out more sane than the rest of his family.

VestigialLlama4
09-21-2015, 09:23 AM
IIRC the Shroud can't revive dead people, only bring them back from the brink of death. They used the Shroud on Giovanni Borgia when he was a baby and he turned out more sane than the rest of his family.

The Project Legacy said that the Shroud contained the First Civ Entity Consus ("The Erudite God"/God of Secret Councils/actual Etruscan deity) and Consus haunted Giovanni growing up. And years later, Consus, being the First Civ d--k that he is possessed him and killed him.

Something similar could have happened to jacob. Or that Jacob is a Sage with Split Personality and has become insane.

SixKeys
09-21-2015, 12:18 PM
The Project Legacy said that the Shroud contained the First Civ Entity Consus ("The Erudite God"/God of Secret Councils/actual Etruscan deity) and Consus haunted Giovanni growing up. And years later, Consus, being the First Civ d--k that he is possessed him and killed him.

Something similar could have happened to jacob. Or that Jacob is a Sage with Split Personality and has become insane.

Wasn't it Giovanni who traveled to the Americas to look for the crystal skull? Or am I mixing up characters? In any case I don't remember Consus killing him, must have been in those files that were released after they pulled the game from Facebook.

Sorrosyss
09-21-2015, 12:48 PM
Yeah, I don't recall him dying either. But it is interesting that Consus directed him to a First Civilization vault and then took possession of him. Almost suggests, as with Juno, that he was hiding in a vessel looking to escape by taking over a body. I suppose this has implications for the Shroud, if it repairs First Civilization DNA, it may make a suitable host for Juno in the modern day.

VestigialLlama4
09-21-2015, 12:59 PM
Yeah, I don't recall him dying either. But it is interesting that Consus directed him to a First Civilization vault and then took possession of him. Almost suggests, as with Juno, that he was hiding in a vessel looking to escape by taking over a body. I suppose this has implications for the Shroud, if it repairs First Civilization DNA, it may make a suitable host for Juno in the modern day.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Divine_Science:_Chapter_1_-_Maria_Amiel

Well it's mentioned that he possessed Giovanni at the end. I assume that he died then, but maybe that didn't happen.

EmbodyingSeven5
09-22-2015, 03:07 AM
Ubisoft plays with History. It doesn't make a fictional character a real life person :|

They could. The identity of "Jack" is still unknown to history.

HDinHB
09-22-2015, 05:42 AM
BBC Jack the Ripper documentary, spoiler tagged because the still frame is graphic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLd_LKZNgHg



One theory is H. H. Holmes was also Jack the Ripper. Holmes was referenced in the Watch Dogs City Hotspot "Murder Castle":


The 1893 World's Fair was the perfect bait for Dr. Henry Howard Holmes (aka Herman Mudgett) to lure his estimated 200+ victims to his front door. Holmes built the 60 room, 3-story building with secret passageways, trap doors and chutes. Holmes advertised for tourists and staff. These unwary visitors and employees checked in and never left. The building burned down in 1895. Holmes was convicted and executed in [1896].

He was one sick dude. Maybe Ubi will use this theory to tie the universes together.

VestigialLlama4
09-22-2015, 09:45 AM
BBC Jack the Ripper documentary, spoiler tagged because the still frame is graphic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLd_LKZNgHg



One theory is H. H. Holmes was also Jack the Ripper. Holmes was referenced in the Watch Dogs City Hotspot "Murder Castle":



He was one sick dude. Maybe Ubi will use this theory to tie the universes together.

Holmes and Ripper being one and the same is ridiculous, their MO is different, choice of victims is different. Jack the Ripper specifically targeted poor prostitutes whereas Holmes targeted employees and girlfriends. And besides Holmes wasn't in London in 1880s, there were no planes back then where you could drop in and out unannounced. Ripper's crimes were horrible not because he killed the most number of people, but because he targeted the specially vulnerable and wretched, which is why those killings shocked Victorian society.

It might be interesting if Ubisoft do a quasi tour of all the famous Ripper suspects (William Gull, George Chapman) over the years, but I would ideally prefer they do something different. Give their own suspect and take on it.

In any case, I don't think AC and Watch_Dogs will have any crossovers, because Watch_Dogs did not really succeed. I mean people basically said it was a "Meh" game, what reason is there to bring connections.

I-Like-Pie45
09-22-2015, 04:51 PM
Its pretty clear that Prince Albert was the Ripper and that any evidence proving to the contrary was planted by the Royal Family.

Hans684
09-22-2015, 06:54 PM
A missed opportunity if he isn't, but it's Ubisoft so I don't expect it.

CrossedEagle
09-22-2015, 08:35 PM
Its pretty clear that Prince Albert was the Ripper and that any evidence proving to the contrary was planted by the Royal Family.

Um, but wasn't he dead? Like 27 years in the grave dead?

VestigialLlama4
09-22-2015, 08:39 PM
Um, but wasn't he dead? Like 27 years in the grave dead?

Shroud of Eden...voodoo...aliens...whatever.

The sad part of the Jack the Ripper killings is that the evidence is so cold that even the most out there theory is no more insane or unfounded then one based on educated guesses. There's literally no way we will ever know who that person, or persons, was/were.

CrossedEagle
09-22-2015, 08:44 PM
Shroud of Eden...voodoo...aliens...whatever.

The sad part of the Jack the Ripper killings is that the evidence is so cold that even the most out there theory is no more insane or unfounded then one based on educated guesses. There's literally no way we will ever know who that person, or persons, was/were.

And with the Shroud you can accuse anyone living or dead at that time too ha ha.

RA503
09-22-2015, 09:47 PM
Jacob is not Jack,the trailer is only playing with fans, like whem they made we think that Assassins is pro revolution...

I-Like-Pie45
09-22-2015, 10:43 PM
Um, but wasn't he dead? Like 27 years in the grave dead?

I'm not talking that Prince Albert, I'm talking about this Prince Albert. Now that you think of it, this Prince Albert may have just been a stoolie and cover-up for the activities of that other Prince Albert (the son of that Prince Albert) as the Ripper.

I know, all their inbreeding really impedes royal naming originality

CrossedEagle
09-22-2015, 10:52 PM
^Oh, that Prince Albert. It could be! DUN DUN DUN!

RVSage
09-24-2015, 06:17 PM
I feel more and more one of the templars turn into jack the ripper.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GXqBOw-8n8

They seem to have some lunatics in their ranks

Farlander1991
09-24-2015, 09:26 PM
After watching some gameplay footage, if Jacob is going to become Jack the Ripper, I'm gonna be so ****ing angry, but it's going to be brutally brilliant if that's the case. I really like both him and Evie a lot from the latest walkthroughs and previews, and I didn't even play the game yet. Honestly I can't wait to see more of them. So far in the series there was no main character who I'd get really attached to in this sort before release of the game, but those two are an exception.

VestigialLlama4
09-24-2015, 09:30 PM
After watching some gameplay footage, if Jacob is going to become Jack the Ripper, I'm gonna be so ****ing angry, but it's going to be brutally brilliant if that's the case. I really like both him and Evie a lot from the latest walkthroughs and previews, and I didn't even play the game yet. Honestly I can't wait to see more of them. So far in the series there was no main character who I'd get really attached to in this sort before release of the game, but those two are an exception.

Even I'm a convert when before none was more skeptical than me. I like the light-hearted take here.