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RedTerex
07-19-2004, 12:13 AM
There is one thing that has always stood out as definatley UNrealistic albeit an External Camera view and that is the way sinking ships remain relatively intact.

Yes I know that in real life one would not be able to view this. But in our 'All viewing angles covered' Sim similar to SH2 It always irks me to see ships sinking undamaged.

What do you mean "undamaged" ?

Well there are 2 main oversights plus addendum.

1. There is never ever a torpedo hole in the side of the torpedoed ship, it should be like 20 feet across by 15 feet high!! In most cases even larger.

2. The ship always sinks with all the funnels, cranes, and masts in situ. But "realisticaly" the wash of the passing water would rip them off as the ship sank.

addendum
2a.Many a ship actualy imploded or crushed as it sank as the water pressure crushed various areas that had sealed water tight doors. If there was any pressure areas then they crushed at depth, Oh yes just like a striken sub.

So I hope that this area is covered by our glorious DevTeam.

ahead flank !

RedTerex

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Sun July 18 2004 at 11:23 PM.]

RedTerex
07-19-2004, 12:13 AM
There is one thing that has always stood out as definatley UNrealistic albeit an External Camera view and that is the way sinking ships remain relatively intact.

Yes I know that in real life one would not be able to view this. But in our 'All viewing angles covered' Sim similar to SH2 It always irks me to see ships sinking undamaged.

What do you mean "undamaged" ?

Well there are 2 main oversights plus addendum.

1. There is never ever a torpedo hole in the side of the torpedoed ship, it should be like 20 feet across by 15 feet high!! In most cases even larger.

2. The ship always sinks with all the funnels, cranes, and masts in situ. But "realisticaly" the wash of the passing water would rip them off as the ship sank.

addendum
2a.Many a ship actualy imploded or crushed as it sank as the water pressure crushed various areas that had sealed water tight doors. If there was any pressure areas then they crushed at depth, Oh yes just like a striken sub.

So I hope that this area is covered by our glorious DevTeam.

ahead flank !

RedTerex

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Sun July 18 2004 at 11:23 PM.]

Pappy55
07-19-2004, 04:38 AM
If you watched that video trailier with the King George V Battleship being sunk, you will see that it starts to fall apart when sinking..and if you think is there any point modeling what happens to it once it siniks far below the waves?? its not like your going to see it.

"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

sdcruz
07-19-2004, 04:43 AM
good point RedTerex - I agree more should be done with the illustrations on sinking ships, they should be more breath-taking and dynamic - it should send a chill to see a freighter go down forever.

jeroen-79
07-19-2004, 06:00 AM
This falls under the eyecandy-department.
Sure, it may be "unrealistic" to show an intact ship going down.

But would a U-boot captain care if the ship is visually being crushed when he can't see it?

The only time it is necessary to visually show damage is when the ship is on the surface.
It would be useful to see your progress when you are shelling a boat.

A ship's destruction under water can not be seen but could be heard on the hydrophones.

Drebbel
07-19-2004, 07:12 AM
I don't care if it breaks apart (or not) when it is below the surface. As long as the sounds and visual debris/oil/etcetra are correct.

Like you said: When playing at high realism one will never see the surface vessels below the surface anyway.

TASKFORCE1x1
07-19-2004, 07:27 AM
Im into real life. I missed the war because I was born at a later date so I couldnt be a submariner...ratz! (I dont like the subs of today just the ww1 ww2 ones reason for it is because its about the man and not so much the machine) Anyways I want to see thebulk heads collapse. I want to see debris. I want to see when a ship sinks vertically things we just never see and even think of like the aft wooden deck of a merchant smoking and then on fire maybe. This happens because the pressure is so great in the aft vertical section when a ship sinks bow first that the pressure that builds up creats immense pressure which causes so much heat that it can make a deck smoke or even catch on fire before it sinks. I even want to hear the dishes break on a kitchen ship. (joke LOL)

Maybe we can hear some screams for help. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

To make everyone happy I propose a toggle switch on all the features like external view to turn off and on like before with SHII. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

sav112
07-19-2004, 08:12 AM
some of you wont be happy till you can see a seaman lighting his pipe at night on a ship while his friend onboard puts on his gloves.

i wounder if there is the posability of ships falling behind due to problems unrelated to the sub.

But keep at it lads. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

RedTerex
07-19-2004, 09:54 AM
I always use external views when playing SH2.

Thats when realism from the Commanders point of view doesnt count for me. And eye candy is a large enjoyment portion of the game/sim, it helps it to be colourful and exciting to play.

If you wasnt the commander of your sub but say a hydrophone man then for the large majority of your trip you would just be staring at the hydrophone station and nowhere else, no conning tower view. no bridge view or any other view in fact.

Luckily for you, you are a Commander of the U-boot and can go all over it.

Hope you get my gist there guys !

ahead full !

RedTerex

Tintin-B17
07-19-2004, 01:43 PM
yes i always wondered why in sh2 they never had holes in the ships that i had torpedoed it was quite silly there HAS to be a hole! otherwise it wont sink..but ofcourse sh2 didnt even have propellors on the ships so lets not talk about that poor effort of a game

RedTerex
07-20-2004, 09:04 AM
I do understand that we have some 'hard-liner' subsimmers here.

The type of player that fires his torpedoes at a ship, then orders down periscope and dive to 250ft with full right rudder flank speed, or whatever evasive, saftey manoeuvre is carried out, and never actually see's the ship detonate as the torp hits home.

I dont always do this, I like to see the ship blow up and then look around for the next target. If a destroyer is bearing down on me 2000yrds+ I like to get off a Torp or two at 1500 Yrds- and try to hit him first..if I miss THEN its 'crash dive'and evasion.

I'de like to ask how many of you EVER play with full 100% realism including DUD torpedoes..especial dud torpedoes. I have to tell you now that I have NEVER used Dud torpedo settings..have you ?

Ahead standard.

RedTerex

bertgang
07-20-2004, 09:21 AM
Full realism and dud torpedoes for me, in Aod.
But I have to admit; I play for fun and, sometimes, not often, I abort the current game and resume it from saved.
Never survived the war, anyway.

jeroen-79
07-20-2004, 11:51 AM
Duds for me too.

Xanthippus
07-20-2004, 01:02 PM
Always 100% realism in AoD. Go to sea in my first boat (6 Torp's) and had all of them fail on a lone merchant i came across, annoyed? yes! but the next patrol where i came across a convoy on its way to Norway i risked my life and my men's to get inside the screen and despite 2 dud's the other 4 fish did their jobs and 2 ships went to the bottom, all the sweeter for the last failed patrol!

Pappy55
07-20-2004, 02:50 PM
I use dud settings when i play seriously..makes it more dramatic..if its a big target like a Carrier or Battleship fire all torps as close as i can sneek in and DIVE DIVE DIVE!!! then sware and curse when half of them were duds..

"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

Teddy Bar
07-20-2004, 04:12 PM
I always played at 100% in AOD/CAOD.

Not fun (but would not have had it any other way) to put your last 3 torpedoes into a juicy 10,000 tonne ship and not sink it. Especially as you never got credit for damaging a ship.

I hope that we don't know for sure if a ship is sunk if we do not 'see it sink' until we get back to port.

Cheers,

Teddy B¤r

Pappy55
07-20-2004, 06:09 PM
Hmm that might be intresting, ou by chance see a fleet carrier snap shoot a load off at it dive get away not know what happened you get back to port and your suddenly a hero :P

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Pappy55/usig.jpg
"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

RedTerex
07-21-2004, 12:46 AM
As a point of interest on the topic of Dud torpedoes.

I know that the USA had BIG troubles with their new magnetic pistol torpedos and many many many of them failed to detonate, also I know that many had faulty depth settings and often ran right under the target. BUT want I want to know is did the Germans suffer the same with theirs on the same scale?

Interesting topic part 2.

Is the amount of Duds in an Silent Hunter patrol acurately modelled. Is it done by PC randon programming or is it a SET amount in the game?

Fire 1, fire 2, fire 3, fire 4 !

RedTerex

jeroen-79
07-21-2004, 06:43 AM
http://uboat.net/history/torpedo_crisis.htm

It seems random to me, ie that each torpedo has an x% chance of failing and not that every xth torpedo will be a dud.

TASKFORCE1x1
07-21-2004, 07:45 PM
I want to hear the Snap,Crackle,& Pop when I sink the ships I hit. Sounds good under water. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

macker33
07-21-2004, 07:49 PM
Go too deep and the hull starts to creak,Creaks in surround sound especially if the lights are off has to be just one of those things.

TASKFORCE1x1
07-22-2004, 02:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I'de like to ask how many of you EVER play with full 100% realism including DUD torpedoes..especial dud torpedoes. I have to tell you now that I have NEVER used Dud torpedo settings..have you ?
RedTerex<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont use duds because I know that I cannot get reloaded at sea. This is why it has to be mandatory to have a reload at sea. Lets call upon a Milch Cow or resupply vessel. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Xanthippus
07-22-2004, 04:56 PM
A issue of dud fish is actually quite complex and not entirely all that random. I know that one of the reasons why there were so many failed sinkings in Norway was due to the heavy ore deposits around the coast which certainly had an effect on the magnetic torp's.

Also, the fish striking angle was another issue, given the contact detonator would respond a little differently depending on the initial angle of contact.

Thus, arguable such factors could be included in the game, and it would be nice to have messages from Donitz issuing advice on the best angle of attack etc, although once you know this stuff it might make for additonal sinkings if you were to start again.

So overall, best to just have some forumla used, which over time increases the chance of a success given the additional research taking place.

TASKFORCE1x1
07-22-2004, 08:18 PM
When we play dc players in SHII I also eliminated the option to have dud realistic torpedoes because too many DC or sub players would complain thinking someone cheated. An option to shut that off stops that problem. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

HeibgesU999
07-22-2004, 08:50 PM
I think the key dates for the Germans getting their depthkeeping and combat pistols working properly are July and December of 1942 respectively.