PDA

View Full Version : I feel like we're not talking about the 'dual protagonist' element enough



EmptyCrustacean
09-16-2015, 04:45 PM
Ubisoft need to push this more. In the marketing we're hearing about gangs, gangs and carriages, gangs, rope launchers and gangs and how this is all going to change how we approach the 3 main core pillarsÖ but I feel like they're being shy about the dual protagonist element.

We have two main protagonists here. TWO. That's a huge deal and a first for the Assassinís Creed franchise (Revelations doesnít count for obvious reasons) and Iím wondering why the devs arenít speaking out about it more. I find myself asking questions like:

How do we switch between the two in a way that doesn't break immersion?

How is that going to work as far as the animus is concerned?

When we do switch will we find the protagonists engaging in various activities that reflect their personalities a la GTA V? Like maybe Jacob throwing up on the side of the street after too much to drink or Evie playing sport on the grass? Evie and Jacob need to be real people and not just avatars to utilise our unique game play styles.

Will we get to do missions together where we can switch back and forth between the two as weíre doing it a la GTA V?

Will we get to do dual takedowns a la Arkham Knight?

If you're going to have dual protagonists you need to really utilise that in a way that affects the game play and I don't just mean with different skill trees. It can't just be put in there simply to appease the two different demographics or to act as a pilot for the next AC game - which I suspect will feature a female protagonist if Evie is well received.

Codarsnacht
09-16-2015, 04:58 PM
I agree completely - it should be discussed more. It's such a big feature of the game and it's a pity how Jacob is getting all the attention really. However, I do think this is because Evie can perhaps be coined as a "secondary" protagonist as she does not share the same amount of gameplay time (during the main missions) as Jacob does.

I'm fairly sure it was confirmed a while back that we have to access the start menu to change protagonists, meaning it'll probably just flash to a white corridor/loading screen and we will just assume control of whatever twin we chose. So at the moment I am not expecting any GTA-esque protagonist switching methods that were completely immersive, which ACS is proving not to be. I hope I'm wrong.

VestigialLlama4
09-16-2015, 05:02 PM
I don't know, I kind of like how Ubisoft is keeping things under wraps and not letting all the cats out of its bag.

BananaBlighter
09-16-2015, 05:03 PM
I don't know, I kind of like how Ubisoft is keeping things under wraps and not letting all the cats out of its bag.

Agree.

EmptyCrustacean
09-16-2015, 05:17 PM
I don't know, I kind of like how Ubisoft is keeping things under wraps and not letting all the cats out of its bag.

That's what I thought too with Unity and the love story between Arno and Elise until I grew more and more nervous they were simply hiding the story. Now we know why...



I agree completely - it should be discussed more. It's such a big feature of the game and it's a pity how Jacob is getting all the attention really. However, I do think this is because Evie can perhaps be coined as a "secondary" protagonist as she does not share the same amount of gameplay time (during the main missions) as Jacob does.

That's true about Evie being a secondary character but seeing as we get to be her in the open world they should be focusing on this more.


I'm fairly sure it was confirmed a while back that we have to access the start menu to change protagonists, meaning it'll probably just flash to a white corridor/loading screen and we will just assume control of whatever twin we chose. So at the moment I am not expecting any GTA-esque protagonist switching methods that were completely immersive, which ACS is proving not to be. I hope I'm wrong.

I really hope that's not the case. Ubisoft need to use their imagination a bit more when it comes to stuff like this. Seems really cold and sterile. Not to mention, lazy.

dxsxhxcx
09-16-2015, 05:49 PM
maybe because there isn't much to say about it. I don't see this as a big deal really, IMO this is just another gimmick...

m4r-k7
09-16-2015, 07:55 PM
I think they are showing it off loads. Most articles mention the dual protagonist aspect and they have demo's for Jacob and Evie on Youtube. I mean every interview repeats the same thing with Jacob being the brawler and Evie being the stealthy one.

Some of your questions have already been answered. You change protagonists via the menu screen.

In regards to the animus thing, the Helix machine allows them to do this somehow.

HoyHoyJake
09-16-2015, 08:12 PM
I don't know, I kind of like how Ubisoft is keeping things under wraps and not letting all the cats out of its bag.

Exactly. Because it is a new and exciting element, it's nice to have some mystery and surprise left until the game is released. There might be a spoilery story element or gameplay feature that incorporates this, which could be why they wouldn't want to go too in depth.

king-hailz
09-16-2015, 08:39 PM
It's most likely because the actual mechanic is no where near as advanced as it was in GTA V and the fact that we have played as multiple character's in this series ever since the first game, also the characters themselves don't really change that much. It's basically AC3 cause we play 30% with Evie like we did with Haytham and 70% with Jacob like we did with Connor. The only difference is that when we do side missions we will be able to change our skin, which we could do in ACB....

dxsxhxcx
09-16-2015, 09:02 PM
In regards to the animus thing, the Helix machine allows them to do this somehow.

this is just a speculation of mine but I think it makes sense: since now they only need the DNA samples to relive memories (the user doesn't matter anymore because the animus is stable enough to handle the synchronization on its own), they can add as many samples they want into the same "emulation", making possible for them to provide different perspectives from other characters (Evie's case) or even show the protagonist's entire life (if they collect the sample directly from the ancestor's body for example, assuming this kind of sample works as well, of course)...

SixKeys
09-16-2015, 09:26 PM
It's most likely because the actual mechanic is no where near as advanced as it was in GTA V and the fact that we have played as multiple character's in this series ever since the first game, also the characters themselves don't really change that much. It's basically AC3 cause we play 30% with Evie like we did with Haytham and 70% with Jacob like we did with Connor. The only difference is that when we do side missions we will be able to change our skin, which we could do in ACB....

It's not just changing a skin, they both have their own skill trees and unique abilities.

VestigialLlama4
09-16-2015, 10:00 PM
It's basically AC3 cause we play 30% with Evie like we did with Haytham and 70% with Jacob like we did with Connor. The only difference is that when we do side missions we will be able to change our skin, which we could do in ACB....

First of all you don't play 30% with Haytham. The divide is something like 8%-92% Haytham-Connor.

The Haytham exclusive sections are Interactive Conversations (on Ship, with Benjamin Franklin, with Templars), his story missions (really simple linear events). If you skip all the cutscenes and rush through, you are done with it in say 40-50mins, which is a paltry amount compared to the 25+hrs with Connor. As Haytham you can do some side activities (some of the Almanac Pages, some of the chests, the Boston Underground) but they are not exclusive to him at all. Whereas Connor has all the main exclusive side activities (tree running, to mountain climbing to sailing, aka the real meat of the game).

Personally, I hope the game is 100% Jacob and 25% Evie (or more). I mean in Arkham City, Catwoman had these small missions, which were clearly additional to the main campaign, she had her own collectibles as well. The real meat is still Batman and they had two campaigns that used the same map but felt different based on who we controlled. That's being smart. AC3 essentially did the stupid approach to dual protagonists where Haytham eats into Connor's campaign, rather than serve as something additional. In AC3, its Connor has 9 Sequences where Haytham has 3, ideally Connor should have 12 sequences while Haytham has 3.

LoyalACFan
09-17-2015, 12:54 AM
Well, honestly, there's not too much to talk about. There are two characters, and each of them has a skill tree/customization. Yeah, I guess they each technically have unique skills and stuff, but the gameplay is essentially going to be the same between them, and there doesn't seem to be any real dynamic content between them like dual takedowns or anything (otherwise they'd be advertising the piss out of it). True to form, Ubisoft is behind the curve in the gameplay department.

And frankly, I just see this as Ubisoft scrambling to get PR points for having a non-sexualized female protagonist, while still not actually having the cojones to make her the star.

SixKeys
09-17-2015, 01:36 AM
And frankly, I just see this as Ubisoft scrambling to get PR points for having a non-sexualized female protagonist, while still not actually having the cojones to make her the star.

Sadly, I suspect you're right. But I'll take it if it means opening doors for more female protags in the future. (In the lead, not as side characters.)

EmbodyingSeven5
09-17-2015, 02:40 AM
I'm, still confused as to how the twin thing works in the animus. Incest?

LoyalACFan
09-17-2015, 10:38 PM
I'm, still confused as to how the twin thing works in the animus. Incest?

Well... basically, yeah, if they're using a single person in the present to relive both characters' memories from a single "DNA donor" (read: Desmond's role in AC4). The donor's parents would have had to be distantly related to each other. Best case scenario, the Frye twins' parents would be their last common ancestors, and then a century later, Jacob's bloodline produced (let's say) the donor's dad while Evie's bloodline produced the donor's mom. So yeah, donor's parents would have had to produce a child even though three of four generations back their family trees converged. So it's not like Evie and Jacob needed to have kids together or anything, but yeah, the donor's parents were related a few generations back.

Unless (please God) they've ditched the Animus, or provided some BS answer where they've spliced together the genetic memories of two separate donors.

Farlander1991
09-17-2015, 10:44 PM
or provided some BS answer where they've spliced together the genetic memories of two separate donors.

What's bs about that? Seems perfectly reasonable (especially considering that splicing together genetic memories of different donors was experimented with since ACB, even though in a simulation that didn't actually reconstruct memories, but it's not a far throw to think that you can go for that as well), and it's how I presume it will be handled.

LoyalACFan
09-17-2015, 10:47 PM
What's bs about that? Seems perfectly reasonable (especially considering that splicing together genetic memories of different donors was experimented with since ACB, even though in a simulation that didn't actually reconstruct memories, but it's not a far throw to think that you can go for that as well), and it's how I presume it will be handled.

Nothing's particularly BS about it in an AC context, I just think the entire Animus thing in general is BS and has long overstayed its welcome :p That's why I said "please God" when I mentioned the possibility that they'd scrapped it. Why try and pull some pseudoscientific acrobatics with the script trying to explain how they're reliving the memories of twins, when they could just go for a wholly historical experience and not have to worry about it?

Farlander1991
09-17-2015, 10:56 PM
Nothing's particularly BS about it in an AC context, I just think the entire Animus thing in general is BS and has long overstayed its welcome :p That's why I said "please God" when I mentioned the possibility that they'd scrapped it. Why try and pull some pseudoscientific acrobatics with the script trying to explain how they're reliving the memories of twins, when they could just go for a wholly historical experience and not have to worry about it?

Explaining how they relive memories of twins requires like one sentence :p I don't know, I think Animus provides many advantages, for an open-world game especially, like non-linear narrative (not just for main storyline, but for side-missions as well, fixing the 'chasing chickens instead of saving the world' scenario - they didn't necessarily happen when we actually do them), and other examples that I'm quite frankly to lazy to type out cause it's late and my brain can't formulate thoughts straight.

duncanr2n
09-18-2015, 03:36 PM
While I don't think this will happen, I was hoping for a Batman AC approach where I could switch at any time. I think it would be nice if there were missions specific to each (or collectibles for each as well) and it would be really nice if there were missions that either one could do. Depending on who you would use would of course depend change your approach. Would add some nice replay to the game.

I-Like-Pie45
09-18-2015, 04:33 PM
I'm, still confused as to how the twin thing works in the animus. Incest?

you're acting like there's something immoral with that

i think that actually sounds like a daring risk in all sorts of storytelling and social justice dimensions for ubisoft

EmptyCrustacean
09-18-2015, 05:00 PM
you're acting like there's something immoral with that

i think that actually sounds like a daring risk in all sorts of storytelling and social justice dimensions for ubisoft

There actually isn't anything morally wrong with incest as long as the relatives are adults and don't plan on having any kids together.

Oh, and as long as it doesn't happen to Jacob or Evie...

Xangr8
09-18-2015, 06:09 PM
...How do we switch between the two in a way that doesn't break immersion?...
I remember reading somewhere that you have to access the pause menu to change your character. I know, this sucks :/