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Gibbage1
03-30-2004, 06:35 PM
OK. I have been flying the P-38 online for some time. Its nice, and has a few tricks up its sleev, and in general a rather robust aircraft. But I have noticed that 80% of the time, when I get hit, I loose controle of something. Weather its elivator, aileron, runnder, or gun jam. If something takes me out of the fight, its always that. In no other aircraft have I known the controle surfaces to be so failure prone! I was hit by a Mk-108 in my center wing, and it took out my elivator controle. I had a 20MM hit take out my rudder and elivator controle. A 110's gunner took every single one of my MG's out in a short birst. The P-38 may take a lot of hits to take down, but man. Something hits you, there is more then a good chance you wont have controle of SOMETHING. Anyone else notice this?

Gib

Gibbage1
03-30-2004, 06:35 PM
OK. I have been flying the P-38 online for some time. Its nice, and has a few tricks up its sleev, and in general a rather robust aircraft. But I have noticed that 80% of the time, when I get hit, I loose controle of something. Weather its elivator, aileron, runnder, or gun jam. If something takes me out of the fight, its always that. In no other aircraft have I known the controle surfaces to be so failure prone! I was hit by a Mk-108 in my center wing, and it took out my elivator controle. I had a 20MM hit take out my rudder and elivator controle. A 110's gunner took every single one of my MG's out in a short birst. The P-38 may take a lot of hits to take down, but man. Something hits you, there is more then a good chance you wont have controle of SOMETHING. Anyone else notice this?

Gib

JG7_Rall
03-30-2004, 06:38 PM
Sure have. Happens in a lot of planes too, like the gunsight issue in the 190's

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r/Typhoon_Target_resized_copy.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
When in doubt, climb!

BS87
03-30-2004, 08:30 PM
Yeah, i noticed this, but you have to take into account that the bullets could frazy or snap the control cables. But the Ailerons are just rediculous, i lose them 98% of my flight time with the P38. But i've become really good at rudder landings.

El Turo
03-30-2004, 08:49 PM
Gib,

I fly the '38 mostly when I'm online (thanks), and have noticed the same thing.

My usual remedy is to get shot as little as possible. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse träume.

VW-IceFire
03-30-2004, 08:55 PM
The actual P-38 airframe is tough as nails but it does seem that the controls are easy to hit. Not sure what this is about and its likely not a good idea to make a big issue...

...even so it could warrant a minor tweak. It may just be the size of the control surface and placement that makes it more vulnerable than other types (historically or not?).

I've been getting a good feel for the P-38 online...its capable in the right hands. The climb and speed are definate advantages.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

WUAF_Badsight
03-30-2004, 11:14 PM
Gibbage ask WUAF_CO_HERO


not only is he P-38 loopy hes also just about the best Lightening pilot there is at HL

give him a 1v1 if you think im just typing out of my A$$

he flies it exclusivly now

mllaneza
03-30-2004, 11:20 PM
Also keep in mind that there isn't a lot of wasted space in a P-38. Any hits are going to hit something important. I have noticed a distinct tendency for cannon shells from behind to damage the tail assembly. I've gotten kills that way, and it's happened to me.

Veteran - Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1993-1951.

WUAF_Co_Hero
03-31-2004, 02:34 AM
My only beefs with the P-38, are this:

The ammo loadout (being fixed);
The elevator being shot off, and still having elevator controls.

Other than that, I find it to be a superb a/c, and worth the challenge of mastering.

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

Art-J
03-31-2004, 03:23 AM
All control cables go through the center wing section, so hits on it causing control failure may be somehow historically correct... Just my 2c

I can't comment on how often it happens though, since I'm not an experienced P-38 driver.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Haribo-Zeke_small_3_txt.jpg

NorrisMcWhirter
03-31-2004, 05:09 AM
Hi,

I've flown the P38J & L in the BoE campaign and I don't recall too many incidents of losing control surfaces. What I have noticed is that this aircraft is very robust unlike its 'new AEP counterpart' the Me110.

Online, I've peppered P38s with LW 30mm cannon fire [190A9 with 2x30mms] only to see them fly off with a fuel leak. So, there are two possibilities:

a. The aircraft is far from fragile.
b. The LW cannons have been 'downgraded'


Of course, all this is subjective....

Cheers,
Norris


================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam : http://cabinessence.cream.org/

More irreverence:
http://www.tvgohome.com/

geetarman
03-31-2004, 08:31 AM
A bit OT. Are the J and L versions modelled differently for flight in the game. I know the L has dive brakes, but are the two otherwise the same.

I love the plane and all the reading I've done about it states that the L was almost a different plane from earlier versions (boosted ailerons, better roll, etc).

The J and L seem to perform about the same in the game, save for the "extras" in the L.

Are the boosted ailerons modelled?

FW190fan
03-31-2004, 08:48 AM
You mean something bad happens when the P-38 gets hit with 20mm and 30mm cannon rounds?

Very alarming findings indeed!

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

Korolov
03-31-2004, 08:49 AM
Hmm, I don't loose controls very often until I've taken a severe pounding. Although sometimes a lucky bullet jams the ailerons or rudders in place.

MG jams, I get those a lot. But fortunately the cannon isn't as quick to jam.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

Capt.LoneRanger
03-31-2004, 09:15 AM
You haven't flown the P40 often, hm? A hit anywhere down the plane, no matter if in the wing or fuselage, you've got a 90% chance of loosing controll over at least one axis. =(

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/7182/1703abcdefg.gif

Strange_361st
03-31-2004, 09:36 AM
Yeah.. I've noticed this as well.. I took one flack burst on the right neacell and lost all my guns. Talk about S.O.L. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

"Strange"
XO of the 376th vFS, 361st vFG
http://www.361stvfg.com

mortoma
03-31-2004, 01:25 PM
Seems to me that there are lotsa places a cannon shell or MG bullet could hit and NOT take out something. Why does every hit have to result in something being disabled??

KGr.HH-Sunburst
03-31-2004, 01:47 PM
talking about fragile im flying 109s most of the time so when im flying a p38 its tank like http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

easy control surface damage? no more than the 109s and gunsight shot of by 1 303 browning in a FW190

http://www.freewebs.com/fightingpumas/
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/sig-97th.jpg

Skii_
03-31-2004, 01:54 PM
Same damage modelling for the Me110, I end up landing most of the time by rudder only !

http://www.skiisworld.plus.com/pilot2%20copy.jpg
XP Pro / 2200XP / Fx5950 Ultra, 1Gb Pc2700 DDR / Abit KD7A Kt400 / Carppy old case

Xnomad
03-31-2004, 01:58 PM
The only problems with the P-38 are the following:

The torque
the mirror
the ammo load-out

otherwise it's a fine bird.

Now a 109, one shot usually means the engine is about to go up in flames, oil on the windscreen, or the loss of a control surface. So I have to agree with the previous poster that after a 109 a P-38 feels like a tank. I had a 109 waste all his ammo on me and all he did was make an engine smoke a litte and I lost some fuel.

Oh and I love shooting at the P-40 that thing is a flying barbeque it flames up so quickly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

WhiskeyRiver
03-31-2004, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Co_Hero:
My only beefs with the P-38, are this:

The ammo loadout (being fixed);
The elevator being shot off, and still having elevator controls.

Other than that, I find it to be a superb a/c, and worth the challenge of mastering.

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What atctics do you use against Ki's and 109K-4. Those are giving me a lot of trouble.

To kill me you've got to hit the heart Ramon--Clint Eastwood

VF-2_John_Banks
03-31-2004, 03:08 PM
How can you fly the P-38 in the BoE campaign? I also have BoE but it only features the Mustang and the Thunderbolt. There is supposed to be a patch for that in the near future. Maybe there is a trick you want to share? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

VW-IceFire
03-31-2004, 03:15 PM
Whats wrong with the ammo loadout? I noticed it was low and assume it was as it should be...

Nevermind then http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Probably right about the small amount of wasted space. That probably means that any hit is likely to be something critical. As I said before...its still a tough plane to down...I was hammered in a VFC Coop a few weeks ago by three Zero's...and I was so badly damaged that they were all hitting me and I still wasn't dead yet...eventually they did all converge fire and the plane exploded but it lasted a good time...not that it was really flyable. Just prolonging the inevitable.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

WUAF_Co_Hero
03-31-2004, 06:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
You haven't flown the P40 often, hm? A hit anywhere down the plane, no matter if in the wing or fuselage, you've got a 90% chance of loosing controll over at least one axis. =(

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/7182/1703abcdefg.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You see, these are the kind of uneducated, BS statistics that are pulled out of peoples asses, that are the reason Oleg won't take a post seriously.

90% chance of losing controls? Well, that's fascinating, I would love to see the data by which you came by that finding. That's just ludicrous.. I have flown the P-40 against zekes and other comperable birds, and I have almost never lost my controls.

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

WUAF_Co_Hero
03-31-2004, 06:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhiskeyRiver:

What atctics do you use against Ki's and 109K-4. Those are giving me a lot of trouble.

To kill me you've got to hit the heart Ramon--Clint Eastwood<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

109K-4's are easy. You can outturn them at lowspeeds w/ combat flaps, and outrun them at high alt. (9k +). It should be noted that I fly this bird as a BnZ a/c whenever possible.

The Ki's are somewhat more difficult to handle. There are some things that it is important to know:

#1: The 38 can easily outdive the Ki (any model). Most people in Ki's are somewhat vain (as it's a pretty n00b plane), and will dive anyways. Once you get to about 850kph in the P38L, simply pump the airbrake, and maintain between 850 and 900kph, and they'll either brake off, or rip apart.

#2: The 38 can outturn the Ki Ib and Ic, however: it's a bad idea against the c, since it has tremendous firepower. I only use this as an option of last resort, in any situation.

#3: wing hits in a Ki make it INCREDIBLY unstable, because of it's amazing rollrate.

These things in mind, I suggest flying high, and BnZ'ing Ki's. hit them in the wings, and they're done for. The Ki can't zoom climb quite as well as a P38 w/ equal E either, so that's another good thing to keep in mind.

Also, since from my findings:: the P-38L's topspeed at 10k is only 20kph or so short of the Ta-152, I would think that you can take a Ki at high alt, just like if you were in a Jug.

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

609IAP_Recon
03-31-2004, 06:37 PM
"The P-38 may take a lot of hits to take down, but man. Something hits you, there is more then a good chance you wont have controle of SOMETHING. Anyone else notice this? "

that is excellent -- I think more damage is needed. Make it tough to get home.

You get hit, you should have the results. I suggest not getting hit so much!

Salute!

JG50_Recon

----
http://www.thepassionofthechrist.com

WUAF_Co_Hero
03-31-2004, 07:06 PM
If you were to ask anyone in my squadron what my initial / continuing impressions of the P-38 is, on how it takes damage...

I imagine anyone that heard me say it one of the hunderd times, would have recalled my remark of it being "The single most durrable fighter a/c in FB that I have flown".

That is, and remains to be.. my feeling of this a/c.

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

AFJ_Locust
03-31-2004, 11:51 PM
What I notice thats even worse than that is its stall flippy thing that it does even @ higher speeds.....

Im no expert but from what iver heard this bird wasent prone to staling as much as its modled in fb

Its still great fun 4 hvars can sink a ship & its base pounding abilitys are awsome thoes hvars can even take out the toughest tanks if u hit um in the right spot http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Its a beutiful ac Gib glad u made it Hope oleg does a lil tweeking here & there to bring it around......

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/Loco_mad_sig2_small.jpg

http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/