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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 07:09 PM
"Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."
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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 07:09 PM
"Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."
Karl Marx

"Tinted glass has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."
Ivan "BlindDog" Novosibirsk

The tradition of all the dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brain of the living.
Karl Marx

"The tinting of all the dead airmen weighs like a nightmare upon my sunglasses."
Petr "Lawndart" Petulentchikov


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif





"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 07:13 PM
I hate how the Yak is so fragile, it seems to fall apart with on burst from any LW plane. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

--NJG26_Killa--

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/FW190.jpg .

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When Erwin Rommel that British fighter-bombers had shot up my tanks with 40mm shells, the Hermann G√¬∂ring who felt himself touched by this, said: "That's completely impossible. The Americans only know how to make razor blades." and the above was Rommels reply.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 07:17 PM
lbhskier37 wrote:
- I hate how the Yak is so fragile, it seems to fall
- apart with on burst from any LW plane.


The Yak 1 & 3 are more fragile , I think the & should be tougher & the Yak 9 was definately more rugged & it was derived from the 7 which was built stronger to be a trainer.

Hang in there
Yakety yak yak till the yak comes bak to attak.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif




"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 07:53 PM
The Yaks are fairly solid IMO (the yak9k is, that I'm sure off) but the Migs have wings made of papier-mache: it takes a light breeze to knock them off, lol
CG

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 08:09 PM
Hard for me to judge the aircraft as my screen usually goes black before my plane is destroyed. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif





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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 08:34 PM
In Olegs world yaks are made from space age wood,
Thank goodness for the patch, I waiteth.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 08:36 PM
Heard heard......
I think the YAK is soooo undermodelled, everyone who has read sovjet history knows that the YAK was the best aircraft of the war... Ever better than the lousy capatalistic P-51 and the facist FW190 pfft...
No, the YAK ruled the skies and we all know it was THE aircraft of the war..
And it's armament could bring down the toughest enemy after a few rounds and it could outturn and outrun everything, a battle against the YAK was suicide and even good pilots stayed away and hoped they weren't spotted/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 08:39 PM
AFAIK patch is going to make FB more similar to IL2 in FMs.Some of you will hate your VVS UFOs soon.



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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:05 PM
Isn't Yak whiner an oxy-moron?
Let's face it, if you can't win in a Yak then it's not the planes, it's the pilot.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


It never fails, if you buy an expensive pair of tinted glasses some fat head airmen is bound to try them and bend them to a not always reasonable form, which will weigh on your mind like a nightmare.




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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:09 PM
carguy_ wrote:
- AFAIK patch is going to make FB more similar to IL2
- in FMs.Some of you will hate your VVS UFOs soon.


Wait a second...am I going insane or wasn't the same thing said when FB was about to come out? I will love the VVS planes no matter what, I grew up loving the Yaks and the laggs and Ilushins. They might be UFO's to you because you don't know much about them /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:25 PM
Tovarish_06 wrote:
- Wait a second...am I going insane or wasn't the same
- thing said when FB was about to come out? I will
- love the VVS planes no matter what, I grew up loving
- the Yaks and the laggs and Ilushins. They might be
- UFO's to you because you don't know much about them/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Enough to put any VVS down.If you fully accept today`s VVS FM you can`t know much about them either.




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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:27 PM
carguy,

What do you think is so far off on the Yak3? It goes 20 km/h faster than it should. Do you have anything else?

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:31 PM
After installing v1.1 you`ll get the idea Buzz.

"degustibus non disputandum"

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 09:36 PM
Why don't you tell me. You seem to know.

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:03 PM
Yep, the only thing I never liked about them is the dark gunsight that keeps me from seeing the landing strip!!!

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XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:10 PM
-- a battle against the YAK was suicide and even good
-- pilots stayed away and hoped they weren't spotted

To hide from Yak and P~51 pilots, Fw190 pilots crouched down in their seats, totally ruining their cockpit view.

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:41 PM
Come on already. As you know I LOVE the 109 but can't you damn goose-steppers ever admit that a non-German plane was better. I tried version 1.1, and Yak-3 still kicks a$$ down low, JUST LIKE IT SHOULD. It was considered one of the best, if not the best fighter at low altitudes. Having said that, late 109's are still much better than Yak-3 in FB. I fly Yaks and 109s almost exclusively and 109's are much easier to survive in. I gaurantee 90% of the people who b1tch about Yaks being too good have never flown them. Don't go by the AI as the Yak certainly had the best AI IMHO and had exaggerated flight model like every other plane. Yes I think the Yak takes too much damage, but FW-190 is far and away the king of concrete. Yes the Yaks flight model is probably overmodelled, but then again so is almost every planes FM. Yaks didn't turn like they do in FB, but neither did the 109. Maybe people should read more so they would have a little more respect for what they are unfamiliar with. Yakovlev's design was an excellent one with outstanding performance and proved extremely rugged in one of the harshest climates/environments in the world. It was very well-liked by its pilots and its combat record speaks for itself. Give the Yak some respect. Everyone knows that the best plane down low was the Yak-3, except for the Tempest of course. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:45 PM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
--- a battle against the YAK was suicide and even good
--- pilots stayed away and hoped they weren't spotted
-
- To hide from Yak and P~51 pilots, Fw190 pilots
- crouched down in their seats, totally ruining their
- cockpit view.
-
-
- ROFLMAO


-
-
-



"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-27-2003, 10:56 PM
BpGemini wrote:
- Isn't Yak whiner an oxy-moron?

I believe a yak whiner is an OX moron.
see pic at :http://www.cariboucry.com/storefront/media/yak.jpg


Not to be confused with other barnyard morons. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


- Let's face it, if you can't win in a Yak then it's
- not the planes, it's the pilot.

sniffle, sniffle. i can't help it if i'm not a natural born pilot like an eagle or a hawk, or, or like a Pig !??!!

Wait a minute the Yak SHOULD be impossible to see out of now that Pigs Do Fly!

Cheers

-
- -
- It never fails, if you buy an expensive pair of
- tinted glasses some fat head airmen is bound to try
- them and bend them to a not always reasonable form,
- which will weigh on your mind like a nightmare.
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XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 12:00 AM
Patch your tongue, kyrule2, YakWhiners are Supposed to be fun. Anyways, except Yak3, Yaks were mediocre dogfighters, but good escorts, and there were always so many of them, but then bully Yakovlev had better political connections than, say, shy Lavochkin.

I agree with Porkyson about La...and MiG too. (I learn my spelling here, only at the ubi.com)

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 12:05 AM
Are you kidding? I thought Yak was one of the most manouvarable planes.. also one of the lightest and most fragile plane.. and that is the way it is in FB:. certainly I hope not that Patch makes this √ľber plane ever better!

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XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 12:12 AM
EyesBlack wrote:
- In Olegs world yaks are made from space age wood,
- Thank goodness for the patch, I waiteth.


Actually, I have it under good authority that Mr. Yakolev only used petrified wood from Siberia for Yak wings...that's why enemy rounds bounce right off! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 12:12 AM
LEXX wrote::
-- except Yak3

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XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 12:43 AM
Ok is this a serious thread? I mean Yak whining lol you have got to be kidding me. In case you guys didn't know the Yak 3 has an anti-inertial drive that was fitted by Captain. Kirk himself..that is after Scotty got through configuring the force shield.

$.


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Message Edited on 06/28/0312:11AM by HighRollerS

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 01:00 AM
With Yak~9K I just came up from beneath a He~111, sliced off a wing with one shot from 45mm cannon. That was nice.

Had er "difficulties" with Me~323 though.

Next, Pe~8.

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 02:24 AM
Smoked em. Coming up from below, one shell of 45mm smacked off wing of Pe~8. Took me a couple of passes to hit it once though. I am a poor pilot, and a worse shot.

VERYhappysmileyface.rbj

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 02:59 AM
- Enough to put any VVS down.If you fully accept
- today`s VVS FM you can`t know much about them
- either.


Kindly point out where in my post I said anything like that

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XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 04:32 AM
I'm sorry I got serious about this thread (smashes forehead on desk). It won't happen again. But I do disagree about Yaks being mediocre dogfighters. I have heard some very glowing remarks from pilots who flew them, including US pilots. Remember in FB down low we are in the Yak's domain.

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg


Message Edited on 06/28/0303:35AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 07:57 AM
No perspiration kyrule. All the Fw threads in Oleg's Recovery Room has given everybody diaper rash.

I think Yak was basically "average." Good at everything, yet specializing at nothing. But that, like a Sherman tank, is the kinda stuff that wins WARs. Its great numbers made it effective too, like the Sherman tank. And the Russians learned not to let their advantage in numbers get bombed on the ground like in 1941. Also, psychology too:: By early 1943, the Germans in Russia were scared, Soviet troops wore grins on there faces no matter the difficulties ahead. Both Knew what was going to happen.

I think later La's were the better fighters for just fighting, but Yak may have been the more versatile design, although La did replace Yak as fighter maker after the WAR. Yak did no more prop fighters, maybe because of initial, and very short lived, success with Yak~15/17 jets. I dunno. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 10:40 AM
Yaks won the war /i/smilies/16x16_robot-tongue.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 09:36 PM
Here ya go tsvorich :

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kyrule2 wrote:
- I'm sorry I got serious about this thread (smashes
- forehead on desk). It won't happen again. But I do
- disagree about Yaks being mediocre dogfighters. I
- have heard some very glowing remarks from pilots who
- flew them, including US pilots. Remember in FB down
- low we are in the Yak's domain.
-
- http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg
-
-
- Message Edited on 06/28/03‚ 03:35AM by kyrule2



"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 09:55 PM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:I think Yak was basically "average." Good at
- everything, yet specializing at nothing. But that,
- like a Sherman tank, is the kinda stuff that wins
- WARs.

Whats that Soviet expression ? Best is the enemy of good enough ?

:Also, psychology too:: By early
- 1943, the Germans in Russia were scared, Soviet
- troops wore grins on there faces no matter the
- difficulties ahead. Both Knew what was going to

Agree totally. an important advantage of the Yak over the Meser was what I like to call the SQUISHY SEAT FACTOR, or SSF. The SSF takes into acount the remarkable drop in the ability to perform even the simplest of tasks after after having the shioott scared out of you. The yak is slearly superior to the late model 109s in Squishy Seat Factor Ranking (SSFR).
Let me illustrate, Yak driver:http://www.bummis.com/images/babies/babyhome.jpg


109 driverhttp://www.robynsnest.com/images/babycry2.jpg



If any 109 drivers want to contest this we can arrange a trial, I'll set up a computer in the barn & you can take turns trying to land the 109 & the yak while the neighbors 9 year old shoots at you with a .410 shotgun loaded with rock salt.http://www.reloadammo.com/co9-12.jpg


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

Message Edited on 06/28/03‚ 11:55PM by Saburo_0

Message Edited on 06/28/03‚ 11:56PM by Saburo_0

Message Edited on 06/29/0302:49AM by Saburo_0

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 08:23 AM
- If any 109 drivers want to contest this we can
- arrange a trial, I'll set up a computer in the barn
- & you can take turns trying to land the 109 & the
- yak while the neighbors 9 year old shoots at you
- with a .410 shotgun loaded with rock salt.<img

for the love of gawd LMFAO!!


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XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 08:53 AM
Yakkety yak.

And don't talk back.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 09:57 AM
actualy i read in a aviation magazine making a hystorycal article that germany had forbitten theire polits to engage Yak-3 and La-5 and 7 under 2500 meters altitude.....i think this says alot.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 10:41 AM
the mortality of soviet pilots was highest in Hurricanes, and then in Yaks. Then in I16, LaGGs, P39, La.
The Yaks were of low quality and light planes with poor pilot protection and weak construction. The only thing they could was to turn.
The famous yak3 was limited in dive to 650kph due to tearing off the wing cover. Do you think that plane is the best low alt fighter? Smthing like faster zero. Sure, dont start turn fight with it!

-------------

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German 9th Army report after repulsing the Soviet offensive "Mars" in Rzhev bulge, December 1942.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 03:29 PM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- I think later La's were the better fighters for just
- fighting, but Yak may have been the more versatile
- design, although La did replace Yak as fighter maker
- after the WAR.

I don't know which one was really the best fighter but it may be interresting to remember that after the war (in 1966, I think), Gerhard Barkhorn (301 kills, second highest scoring pilot in history) told a british magazine that the Yak-9 was the best soviet fighter and added that he considered it as "one of the best in the world" by 1944 (BTW, while this is not significant (great fighter pilots were killed by SBs or Bleinheims...), we can remark that some of Germany's best fighter pilots, like Hubertus von Bonin or Anton Hafner were killed in combat with Yak-9s).

- Yak did no more prop fighters, maybe
- because of initial, and very short lived, success
- with Yak~15/17 jets. I dunno.

In fact, after the war Yak did produce the Yak-9P (better armed Yak-9U) and small series of the Yak-3M-107 which was a fantastic fighter which was not largely distributed since it was no longer needed (the war was over and it was felt that the VVS didn't need anymore a high number of prop fighter types).

In fact, Yakovlev's initial success with jet fighter was linked to Stalin's trust in him, but the Mig-9 soon proved to be a much better plane than the Yak-15/17 and the Su-9 (not produced because it was too externally similar to the Me-262) was also considered better by the test pilots who flew both.

In fact, Yak didn't have success with fighters after that until the Yak-25 all-weather interceptor (and after that with the little produced Yak-38 SVTOL which while not as bad as some said it was, was not a true fighter but could rather compete with advanced training and light attack planes like the Hawk or the Alpha Jet).

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 11:42 PM
I remember one American pilot saying that they had a Yak-9 at their base and everyone would always sign up to fly it. He said in his opinion it was the best fighter of the war. I know this is just one person's opinon but I think it does say something about the Yak. I agree that construction was probably somewhat poor, and that it one of the reason that it is not among my favorite planes of all time. Still it did prove rugged in very harsh conditions, and I though it was known that Yak construction quality was better than Lavochkin's. I think the heavier Yak mortality rate was effected somewhat by the circumstances around it's service, as it entered the war earlier and in greater numbers than planes like P-39 and La's. Pilots who flew the Yaks seemed to like them alot, the same can't be said for Laggs. But then again who knows? Maybe I am wrong.

Oh, and Jurinko, yes I do think the Yak was one of the best fighters down low. It had great speed, climb, visibility, and maneuverability. Sure it couldn't dive at excessive speeds, but when you are fighting at low altitudes how much is this a factor? Again the Yak-3's combat record speaks for itself, and the Free French thought they were pretty damn good also.

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg


Message Edited on 06/29/0310:46PM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 02:09 AM
Well.. here is what I have learned.. To my opinion Yaks are the best dogfighters in the game.. A real T&B-Bird.. Also I have learned to avoid Turn fighting with these beasts.. I also believe that Yaks are bit too strong at the moment, meaning that usually it takes over 3 MK108 hits to finish it off..

And Yaks seem to have greater Dive speed than they really had.. Its hard to loose a Yak in dive even when you are in FW190..Sure the FW190s have some issues too, mostly because taking insane amount of damage, some say.. I find this ridiculous, as this is one of her strong points.. 190 is far from beeing a Turn&Burn plane.. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

In a way Yaks won the war.. Soviet pilots learned to use their advantages.... also Luftwaffe pilots learned how to deal with the Yaks.. just like in FB /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 03:41 AM
Vipez- wrote:
- I also believe that
- Yaks are bit too strong at the moment, meaning that
- usually it takes over 3 MK108 hits to finish it
- off..
-This is a problem with the 108 not the Yak I beleieve.

- And Yaks seem to have greater Dive speed than they
- really had.. Its hard to loose a Yak in dive even
- when you are in FW190

I'm not sure this is specific to the Yak either & I think the patch will improve this, we'll see. ( oh I'm a Butcherbird fan too!


http://www.justbirds.it/Australia/Pied%20butcherbird.jpg


- In a way Yaks won the war.. Soviet pilots learned to
- use their advantages.... also Luftwaffe pilots
- learned how to deal with the Yaks.. just like in FB
-
See, that's the spirit !

Group Hug !! :
http://geddes.home.mindspring.com/pics/scrum_close.jpg





"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 03:55 AM
Jurinko, One of the things taht makes the Yaks interesting is their excellant service record IN SPITE OF Construction problems (some plants made better planes than others) & the excellance of the design is proven by the fact that it was successfull EVEN THOUGH the limited supply of duraluminum forced them to be built from second rate materials.

If the soviets would have had an engine comparable to the Daimler Benz series the Yaks would have been even better. Compared to Brit & Geman engines the Soviet designers had very little to work with & it seems the Russian's engines added very little horsepower during the course of the war.

The Yak is as worthy of praise as any other fighter of the era in my humble yet inconsequential opinion.

Cheers!

FB doesn't replicate manufacturing faults in individual airframes.

When reading about the Yaks it's interesting to note how often production machines were tested to see if they matched prototype recorded performance figures. It's a remeinder that just because one Mustang rechhed 440mph doesn't necessarilly mean they all did.

"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 10:06 PM
YAKs blow!!! (literally)
Long live the LAs!!!

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 10:09 PM
La Troll

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 10:56 PM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- La Troll
-
-

I feel sorry for those La boys, they're just insecure 'c asue Yaks have such big guns.


"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 01:25 AM
YAK ROCKS

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 01:43 AM
Its not that Yaks are too strong...is that most of the armament they go up against is too weak at the moment in FB.

I've heard from a little bird that all of that is about to change with the patch...

I think Yaks will be getting B&Z with much more success after the patch. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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