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View Full Version : Please postpone the game - a plea to Ubisoft and the developers



MLT_TheaElyra
08-30-2015, 05:51 PM
I get the fact that you want Heroes VII out at the announced launch, I do. Money, business, all that jazz. But please, I (and probably many, many more) can plainly see that the game will struggle at launch if not more time, money and effort is spent to fix the myriad of issues currently plaguing it. I refuse to believe that all, or even a majority of these issues, will get resolved before the planned launch in time, and that will simply mean a worse off game for everyone. And yes, I believe this may potentially ruin the franchise all together.

I originally posted this to the Heroes community site, but since comments tend to get swallowed up in the big myriad of opinions there, I wanted to repost this here.

Fact is, you NEED to postpone this game. Push it back to 2016, or at the very least until before Christmas. You will not be able to fix all the technical issues, sloppy grammar, weird animations, balance issues and all of the other stuff before the planned release, which would cripple the franchise and really hurt potential sales. If the game comes out in just a month I can pretty much guarantee the critics will at best find it mediocre, and that will hurt everyone involved, fans included.

The sad thing is I hope this game does really well, but I can't see that happening in its current state. I've been playing for many, many hours this weekend, and I love the fundamental mechanics, the combat, most of the creatures, the magic guilds, the specializations, the skill tree... there's a lot to like about Heroes VII. But it NEEDS more polish! Far more! During this weekend I've also suffered through very many bugs, crashes, breakdowns, slowdowns, nonsensical AI decisions, multiplayer out of sync issues and just many other irksome moments. Please don't waste this opportunity, and risk burying the series because of poor sales DUE to sloppy performance issues and bugs!

I would love to hear other fans opinions about this as well, thought I suspect quite a few will agree with me. I really like what you guys and girls have done with the game, but it needs more time to cook in the oven, in a manner of speaking!

Antalyan
08-30-2015, 05:58 PM
DELAY THIS GAME!!!

Otherwise you will burry it and the whole saga two. Nobody will believe after two totally crap releases.

Myrandae
08-30-2015, 06:03 PM
While many people share this opinion I do not think that it will effect their sales that much.. Look how many people got decieved by the heroes VI scam. They kept pumping out dlcs with it advertising better stability into them when they hardly changed anything. I wouldn't be surprised they advertise bugfixes as dlc's in this one aswell (Shades of darkness multiplayer stability on the steam ad).

While the release at the release date will be better than the current state isn't in question I must agree that it wont be as polished as it has to be.. Gimmicks like "Forced to see enemy combat" and major out of sync issues in multiplayer is likely going to hurt the playerbase by quite a lot.

I sometimes wonder if that's their goal in the first place. If people blindly pay for the game at first buying collector editions preorders is where they eat the money and they save in server costs with people leaving the game.. The consumer base is dumb enough to fall for this i'm sure.. It seems like a great idea on a business standpoint.

MoritzBradtke
08-30-2015, 06:10 PM
im not a programer myself, i just have very litlle knowledge about it but i also see the many Problems the game still has and i think there are still too many Problems and it would be the best to postphone it also but i really dont see that Happening, i feel a Little sorry for the developers here but there is not much time left when the game is going into production in 3 weeks....

i would Need some Kind of miracle if we got a working game without bugs and a good AI in a month on our Computers

they weill probably just realease it and patch it again and again just like with Hereos VI, im not sure if im up for that, i'll wait a see what the devs are saying about it

Antalyan
08-30-2015, 06:25 PM
Eveeyone is telling Ubi to postpone the release. If they dont do it, they will be very surprised then why nobody is making the preorders for its datadisc, DLC or even next Heroes.

People may believe that H6 catastrophe has appeared only once due to the Black Hole colaps, but after this september unfinished release (rusehd with no reason), people will not beieve ubi about Heroes next time. They are not so blind.

MLT_TheaElyra
08-30-2015, 08:04 PM
While many people share this opinion I do not think that it will effect their sales that much.. Look how many people got decieved by the heroes VI scam. They kept pumping out dlcs with it advertising better stability into them when they hardly changed anything. I wouldn't be surprised they advertise bugfixes as dlc's in this one aswell (Shades of darkness multiplayer stability on the steam ad).

While I do fear, as you do, the potential endless outstream of mediocre to bad DLC's, I am willing to give Ubi and friends a chance. But if this turns out similarly to Heroes VI.... this will be the last time. I am sick of this trend of pushing out games prematurely, and I am sorry to say that Ubisoft are one of the worst perpetrators in this field. I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt this last time... but if they do not postpone this bodes badly for everyone. And maybe it won't affect sales that much. But I do think many Heroes fans are on the fence about this one after H6, and will wait for reviews. Reviews will also affect many potential fans, who may not be very aware of the franchise at all. And I am quite certain the reviews will be negative if they launch in under a month from now.


I sometimes wonder if that's their goal in the first place. If people blindly pay for the game at first buying collector editions preorders is where they eat the money and they save in server costs with people leaving the game.. The consumer base is dumb enough to fall for this i'm sure.. It seems like a great idea on a business standpoint.

It might seem like a great business idea, but not for a big company like Ubisoft. They might not look like it some times, but they do need to keep a good relationship with their fanbase and at least try to get some good games out there. The problem to me seems to be they are always rushing games out, caring little about polish and bug fixes and more about timelines and quick bucks. I do believe H7 can be a great game, but only if the developers can get the time and money they need to actually finish the game.

abishia
08-30-2015, 08:24 PM
you people are really overreacting.

it's not in so bad state, many of those bugs and things can be fixed when launched.
sure some creates act weird in animation but hardly game braking nor being critics about.
and can be fixed after launch or first day patch if needs be.

also crashes? i not experience a single crash and i play 12 hours total.

kurok4i
08-30-2015, 08:37 PM
you people are really overreacting.

it's not in so bad state, many of those bugs and things can be fixed when launched.
sure some creates act weird in animation but hardly game braking nor being critics about.
and can be fixed after launch or first day patch if needs be.

also crashes? i not experience a single crash and i play 12 hours total.

Overreacting?? No...
See this post http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1253376-Feedback-Beta-2-Screenshots-inside-and-save-files

The game needs a lot of corrections. 12 hours approximately to discover the bugs... and I think there is more to discover.

I love the look of it, but I'd hate to go out with so many problems that can ruin the gaming experience.

Cheers!

Dethcord
08-30-2015, 08:40 PM
you people are really overreacting.

it's not in so bad state, many of those bugs and things can be fixed when launched.
sure some creates act weird in animation but hardly game braking nor being critics about.
and can be fixed after launch or first day patch if needs be.

also crashes? i not experience a single crash and i play 12 hours total.

Try to play a longer game.

Due to long AI turns it's impossible to play big maps.
Multiplayer is not working for 99% of the players.
Gamebreaking bugs like duping army, accidentally seeing enemy's fog of war instead of your own, black market not selling artifacts, black dragons having no magic immunity, medusa sorceress not benefitting from morale procs, double strike when ulretaliated attack not working for ranged units, combats starting against wrong stacks of monsters, AI losing huge army against 50 fairies, game consuming all avaliable memory and not loading saved games, and much, much more.
Game balance is unexistant.
And no one even tested campaign.

This will not be fixed before the end of the month. Not a single chance.

Tripty
08-30-2015, 10:38 PM
Totally agree. Bought HOMMVI only because I love the franchise. If HOMMVII delivers the same Quality, then you've lost me. Sim turn in multiplayer is a must have; at least for me. Maybe you invite some guys from Firaxis Games over for some chit-chat. :)

Dethcord
08-30-2015, 10:40 PM
Totally agree. Bought HOMMVI only because I love the franchise. If HOMMVII delivers the same Quality, then you've lost me. Sim turn in multiplayer is a must have; at least for me. Maybe you invite some guys from Firaxis Games over for some chit-chat. :)

Interesting, I can't join hosts with normal turns on, and I don't want to play sim turns, because they don't toggle off when players encounter each other. What will happen if one player will attack one of two others while they're fighting each other?

Tripty
08-30-2015, 10:46 PM
Please do not break the iron rule: the odd-numbered HOMM's are the good ones!
I bought HOMMVI and didn't even Play 10hours. No Problem, had loads of fun with HOMMV (Tribes of the East).
Please do not break the iron rule: the odd-numbered HOMM's are the good ones!

Please don't do it. Sync-multiplayer is a must have - invite some Fireaxis Games members for "pizza nd beer" over and have a Little chit chat. :D

Tripty
08-30-2015, 10:50 PM
Interesting, I can't join hosts with normal turns on, and I don't want to play sim turns, because they don't toggle off when players encounter each other. What will happen if one player will attack one of two others while they're fighting each other?

In HOMM V the game turned sim turns off, after two players came near to each other. We played weeks and months like this, although I'd appreciate an option to have it permanent. But ya, if it "just works" like in HOMMV I'm totally fine. http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/wink.png

BaronCam
08-30-2015, 11:41 PM
I strongly agree. This game has so much potential, but it doesn't look ready. One month isn't enough time to fix these issues. I really want Homm Vii to be a success, and if is not, I will be done with Ubisoft sadly.

Come on guys! :) Show the world you can release polished games.

Valderrama1990
08-31-2015, 06:49 AM
Maybe the Beta 2 is an old build. If thats the case I do not see a reason why they shouldnt release the game on time.

If the beta is recently build I would postpone the game to early next year or December.
There is way to many issues.

princessk2013
08-31-2015, 12:52 PM
i dont think they give the beta whit any reason other than find the bugs : this is none the final version, this is not the latest version :
Exemple number 1 : I heard from Marzhin that they didnt accelerate,optimize the AI IN PURPOSE to be able to see /fix bugs.

The game is not is so bad shape they couldnt release it, I really dont agree, I myself work in computer science and with good devs, it is not impossible at all
to resolve the technicals bugs..
Fix bugs is not really programming, it is like you finish to write a paper and now you are fixing the grammar errors / spelling ones..
Dont over reacting,
if the game is not ready they will not release it ,
if they dont say anything like now, this means that the devs know they will finish on time...
You dont delay a release 2 weeks before, Projects are planned months and months in advance...

Anyway , I agree with the previous posts : Stop over reacting in advance, it is their job not yours, We will judge on the D Day...

Antalyan
06-24-2016, 05:06 PM
I wouldn't like to carp but we told you, Ubisoft.

This game gets average rating 60-70.

I am pretty sure that if this game had been released in the current state or rather in the post August state, it would have got 80-90 in average and it would have been sold much better.

LichArch
07-02-2016, 03:59 PM
It's not a matter of delaying it's a matter of caring. This fandom has been showed the middle finger too many times really.



This game gets average rating 60-70.

Yeah if you take into consideration paid reviews, user reviews tells the truth, and user reviews rank way lower than that (40-50).

H7 disaster sales is proof how bad H6 was, they had a chance to make things right but they decided to do same crap all over again.

tascolas
07-06-2016, 05:07 PM
@LichArch
Agreed , homm 7 is a bad game and at its best mediocre. But BlackHole's heroes6 was innovative. Good game for me means replayable and although i hit 50 yo this year, i am not a purist on the homm series. I like change when it makes a game exciting. Black Hole had a really good game, maybe it was a tad simpler than heroes 3, but still great in its own terms. Apart from the great design and detail it was a faster paced Homm. Faster than ever which made the game more appealing to a lot of people. The AI wasn't too smart but it was never too smart anyway lol. Your claim of homm6 being bad cannot be justified by numbers. Heroes VI sold 300k+ units and Heroes VII has sold 80k nearly a year after its release. Anyway you look at it heroes6 is a polished game whereas 7 feels and plays like a 9.99 euros game only its sold for much more. Homm7 is literally half the game Black Hole offered in terms of content, design, maps, heroes leveling variety, legendary weapons, animation, replayability, you name it.
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/49554/might-amp-magic-heroes-vi/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/84662/might-amp-magic-heroes-vii/
Now 80k is rock bottom man. My mate bought 7 just to support the game and keep his heroes collection complete. I didn't as a protest for the heroes6 online DRM forced by UBI. It's my mate's copy i played lol, he doesn't have time to play. And kids don't buy heroes games. Some youngsters do alright but they must be 5% of the heroes fanbase. From the get go it's a challenging game, no matter what heroes 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 they 're all too complicated and too slow for the "FruitNinja" teenagers. So 300k vs 80k says the fundamental fanbase as a whole, not as forum appearances, liked homm6 and supported it. Critics and people liked it much better than 7 based on Metacritic scores. I liked it. My friends did too. We "rocked" heroes6 for 3 consecutive years. So its either we 're constantly too stoned or heroes 6 had to be good mate eheheh.
Thank you for your time,
Peace :-)

RobvD84
07-06-2016, 07:05 PM
HEROES 6 IS NOT A POLISHED GAME. THEY FREAKING STOPPED THE SUPPORT AFTER A YEAR (and Blackhole went bankrupt partly Ubilols to blame). so yeah ofcourse ppl are worried about H7 and the future of this franchise.

And don't forget that H6 divided the fanbase (especially since H6 brought in new fans). Even tho H4 already made the fanbase split a lil bit. H6 was even worse, because it introduced a few new game mechanics, like the free skill system. Wich i don't like. For me it's about that they changed the formula that worked for so long has been changed, and i really don't like it. I just can't enjoy it for some reason. Not to mention that for me both H6 and H7 is unplayable (still getting black screen with H6, and yes i have Nvidia).

Also you are saying that a product having sold a certain number of copies can not be called a "bad game", the opposite holds also true for this. Just because it sold a certain ammount of copies doesn't mean it's good. Batman Arkham is a good example, it has been fixed now, but at release it had so many problems that it got pretty bad ratings. But after it got fixed the ratings became good. But this is proof of that the amount of copies sold doesn't tell everything. But if it sells bad it ofcours tells you everything.

I don't really care about "purists" or "real fans" or anything like that. But i do care about a company that want's to invest into thier product and want to come with the best possible product that they can make. And they clearly haven't done this since H6 (H5 actually started this, but got redeemed after the x-pacs) otherwise it would have turned out differently. Probably would have chosen a better (more expansive) developer to make the game.
Why can they do this with WD or For Honor and not with any of the Heroes games? It just doesn't make sense to me. And i really believe that a lot of ppl are waiting for that tbs/stratagy/rpg hybrid itch.
Yeah i know there are some other games besides Heroes. But that is not the same as, you know, Heroes franchise.

Besides i never have seen a company been so arrogant and ignorant as Ubilols. Yeah EA was bad (in my eyes they have redeemed themself a bit). But what Ubilols has shown us is in my eyes really a disgrace. This is not how you treat your costumers.

tascolas
07-07-2016, 01:07 PM
Well...
First of all let me say that bigger sales means the game has more fans. Which game is better or worse is irrelevant in the number equation. There cannot be further development if a game doesn't make money. So yes, a game with sales can justify its existence and therefore it can "promise" a future to the people who liked it and in this way it is a "better" game than a game with no sales and no future whatsoever. Of course there is Kickstarter and a couple of others. I sure would like to see Ubi in Kickstarter, i 'd laugh like never before lol. And because this will never happen its either a game is succesful or they kill it no matter what, or they sell the rights. Now i wonder how much would they want assuming the alleged 1.3mil they paid back 2003 when they bought the rights is true...
Homm6 bugs were ironed out before the dlcs came or the expansion came to be. So that is a polished game in my book. Not on release but after 6 months it was ok. Btw polished also refers to detailed writing and scripting something that homm7 lacks. They stopped support after a year? And what do you want, you haven't even played it lol. Homm5 ironed out the -too many- bugs with the ToTE expansion. That was a really long time comparing. I played homm5 for years and everyone who did knows what i am saying is true. ToTE is what homm 5 should be from the beginning.
As for the support, this is up to Ubi. Ubi brought Limbic soon after the Blackhole demise. Ok Blackhole's one huge mistake was to sign they would get paid if they reached 2mil sales. Not even God himself imho (that should be Jon Van Caneghem in this case just so i am not misunderstood by religious people) can sell even a million Homm copies nowadays and its a fact alright. So Limbic did the 1st dlc to homm6 then the 2nd then the expansion. Each and every Limbic offering was subpar to the Blackhole offering and it was obvious from the get go that this was a lose situation. But " Ubi said no Limbic is good, let 'em work with the fans. And so the fans haunting all these forums suggested this and that and blah blah and we came to homm7 which is literally half the game heroes6 is. Using the inherited graphics since Ubi owns all Blackhole homm creations did not suit them (lol) so they came up with something that resembles homm5 10 years ago. The maps are confusing to look at, hard to distinguish which is which, the color palette is a copy paste job. So wooden roofs have the exact same color as clay roof tiles. The color artists should be executed lol, only kidding of course. Where's the content. Where's the hero creation variation.Why can't i play the campaign with any hero i like. Why can't i create my own hero? Why isn't there more items like the legendary weapons that homm6 brought that leveled up giving new abilities? They 're completely removed from the game where as they should be expanded in all kinds of items not just weapons. In homm6 Griffins are the "good" guys and Wolves are the villain throne boot lickers, in homm7 the Wolves are what Griffins were and vice versa for the Griffins? Really ? Is this your idea of continuation to a story ? Ahh yes i know all is grey right? Wheres the 3d model of my hero. I saw people complaining about this too. "You made it look like Warcraft " . Really ? Like it's a bad thing hahaha. If there is one all time fantasy title that stands out and not only because of sales, is Warcraft. Plainly and simple. Get past it. ( Even the movie is good, not LOTR of course but ok nonetheless ).
So to sum it, adopt and evolve is what makes games franchises successful overtime. Most of the writings i read from members the past 12-13 years, sit in the opposite direction. Most of these people want to play a new game in their old pc and because their pc was already not good enough for the previous version of the game lol, they still swear about it like its the programmers' fault. Strategy is best executed in 3D dudes. Buildings once you build them should appear in the main map like in rts titles. Perhaps in a smaller scale but appear none the less. I remember tons of people complaining how the 3D townscreen in homm 5 would crash their pcs. Get a new one ,gr.card, pc whatever. And stop complaining. Those townscreens were amazing, but they had to listen to all these peeps and remove them. I did not see people complaining how the last GTA brought their graphics card and their whole pc to its knees. They actually loved it as its another "guilty" excuse for a new pc. Any comments on this maybe? Are we the nerdiest of all or aren't we not, and i am talking bout the homm fans and do not exclude myself. And then they complain about the AI. Smart AI needs powerful machines to calculate it. Making a game that supposedly can be played by a ten year old machine, in reality puts the "smart AI " last in the list of priorities. Sure there's what you call efficient smart coding, but even with it you would need a powerful computer to do the math. That's why the Witcher3 is an amazing cinematic experience, not only for the graphics but for the AI and storytelling as well and heroes7 is not. Because first and foremost, its made from the start for powerful machines and botches the rest. This is how AAA game titles are mostly the last 15 years. Get over it please.
The best of the series,homm3 had an obsolete graphics engine even upon release. It shined because of its gameplay and rich content/writing not the graphics. But a computer game is or should be if you like, a multimedia experience, ditching the graphics part reduces the experience to a table game. And that's what most of the guys here want really lol, i mean honestly, are you guys for real? . So before judging the AI look at yourself and see if your comp can handle a serious AI and the graphics that SHOULD go along with it. In contrast to the Witcher3 Homm7 feels like a legacy 4.90 game not a 2015 triple A title. And of course i know they 're totally different titles with a different fanbase as well.
I will not go on using up more of your time, thank you for listening
Peace
Btw, black screen in homm 6? I have played homm6 in 10 different pc configs at least. No black screens. And with Nvidias too as they 're my first choice for gaming. I even had it in my laptop and played ok on a mobile nvidia 630 with 1gb dedicated gddr. Check again , i remember from all the nvidia drivers only one would play well with my gtx470.

Antalyan
07-07-2016, 01:28 PM
Limbic team did not make the expansion for H6. It was Virtuos nobody speaks about.

RobvD84
07-07-2016, 02:00 PM
Gesus that was a nightmare to read lol.

Both H6 and H7 are disasters in my eyes. With H7 the biggest disgrace i have seen.
Also i don't know if you followed the forum back then when x-pac for H6 came out. But back then there were a few game breaking bugs, with black screen 1 of them. And yeah i haven't played H6 for a long time now. I know the last time was when they were still working on H7. I just wanted to try it again. But got bored pretty fast and i also got crashes and black screen. Wich made me stop playing.
Also i don't care if you played H6 in 10 different configs. I still gotten black screen way past Ubilols announcement that they stopped supporting the game. So no i am not going to try playing it again. I think i need to install it again anyway, so i am not going to bother.

And the reason ppl don't want it to look like Warcraft is because HoMM always had a unigue feeling. Yes they used mytholigy in thier games (i mean wich game or movie doesn't nowadays), but HoMM really was unique (still is, and i have yet to see a game that gives me the same feeling as H2-H5). Also what i believe what made HoMM great is that everyone could play it. You never needed a high end pc. You be suprised how many ppl don't have high end pcs or laptop's. Especially since we are living in a age where having a console is cheaper and pc technology is going fast. Not everyone has the money to keep upgrading thier pc.

Anyway i haven't read all of your post because it is a dissaster to read for some reason. And i don't think i will bother anymore either. But i do hope that you understand what i am trying to say.

And ofcourse no hard feelings, i just like discussions. Not that my English is that good tho.


Edit: Antalyan to the rescue lol

tascolas
07-07-2016, 03:31 PM
I stand corrected for Virtuos , yes you are right , i hadn't put the game on for a long time. Yep it was Virtuos alright my bad. My point was it had already gone a bad direction anyway but of course Limbic shouldn't take that blame too.
So everyone could play heroes because of the tabletop design being 2D or fake 3D if you like and all. In theory. Because the gameplay is complicated which leaves out most of the generic gamers. The universe of M&M is unique i agree and doesn't have anything to do with Warcraft. Just tell me how would you design / represent the M&M universe and its creatures ,buildings etc in 3D without resembling any other known franchise.
And Homm NEVER had a really serious AI. You want AI ? Try Fritz, the chess engine. Fritz with one of the most simple graphic engines can bring any pc down to its knees because of the math it calculates realtime. A homm game feels a lot like chess with the exception of the AI which most of the times is doing the same things over and over, modern AIs adapt depending the situations and environment, homm AI does about the same things in all homm versions. Hardest settings make it more aggressive but again it behaves the same everytime and will not surprise you. Just some things i noticed repeatedly over the years.
Whatever the opinion is about H6, it sold enough for us to have another game only i do not think there will be a future after H7.
Btw, look at what Larian did with Kickstarter. Divinity Original SIn is a great game. But i bet Ubi would ask for 5 or even 10mil to give up the rights to the M&M franchise.
Cheers