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Extreme_One
03-11-2004, 04:00 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif It has been pointed out to me that I had (inadvertantly) used the term 'Jap' in a few of my recent posts.

I concur with the point that was made about this being used as a derogatory term.

Racism (intentional or inadvertant) is a pet-hate of mine so I feel rather hypocritical...

Sorry if I caused anyone any offence.

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-11.html). *NEW*

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

Extreme_One
03-11-2004, 04:00 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif It has been pointed out to me that I had (inadvertantly) used the term 'Jap' in a few of my recent posts.

I concur with the point that was made about this being used as a derogatory term.

Racism (intentional or inadvertant) is a pet-hate of mine so I feel rather hypocritical...

Sorry if I caused anyone any offence.

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-11.html). *NEW*

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

RossC0
03-11-2004, 04:12 AM
Good Show! - not sure that 'Jap' is offensive ? If some one refered to me as a 'Brit' - I wouldn't be offended?!? If your comments about the Japanese were derogitory then thats another matter.

Its Political Correctness gone mad! People today seem to jump on to band wagons and take offense - often on behalf of people that they think are being offended even if their not...

Fehler
03-11-2004, 04:25 AM
First off, Jap is NOT a racial slur, no matter what people here think. And it's no more disrespectful than saying Brit for Bitish, or US for United States. It IS an abbreviation, however. People that WANT it to be a slur are just looking for things to complain or be thin skinned about. "The squeaky wheel gets the greese," and people that hollar foul about cheesy crap like this are looking for attention. (Period)

That said, a racial slur has be a derrogatory statement against a race of human. Contrary to popular belief, each country is not a race of mankind.

Races are defined anatomically, and the main races of mankind are African, Asian, and Caucasian - in alphabetical order.

Japan is a country, not a race. So my advice to you Extreme One is to ignore those that want you to placate yourself for their enjoyment. You have been nothing but an asset to this community, and I suspect the motive behind others complaints are an attempt to knock down from the highly regarded view others have of you here in this forum.

And for the rest of you that get all "Offended" and want to go cry in the corner like a little baby, remember this, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me." Some of you are truly pathetic!

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

madsarmy
03-11-2004, 04:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RossC0:
Good Show! - not sure that 'Jap' is offensive ? If some one refered to me as a 'Brit' - I wouldn't be offended?!? If your comments about the Japanese were derogitory then thats another matter.

Its Political Correctness gone mad! People today seem to jump on to band wagons and take offense - often on behalf of people that they think are being offended even if their not...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To True M8

Extreme I would be shocked to think you have offended anyone. All your posts that I have read have been nothing but a credit to the community.


For all UK residence
I live in the West Country. I know the rest of the rest of you think we are Cow tipping, Cider Drinking Idiots who cant read or write but can drive a tractor.
I would like to make it quite clear that I have never been Cow tipping in my life.


http://mysite.freeserve.com/fbscreenshots/images/0-picture.jpg

"LOOK MUM NO HANDS!"

[This message was edited by madsarmy on Thu March 11 2004 at 04:44 AM.]

Bearcat99
03-11-2004, 04:40 AM
Although true that the term Jap is not a racial slur it is a national slur. I know several Japanese Americans who are offended by the term, particularly because of thier experience during WW2 here in the US. While true the term Brit is not a slur..niether is Guinea, or Wop, or Limey or Frog or Kraut..... yet all these terms CAN be offensive to some..... I am sure you meant no harm as would be anyone here who knows you. Yet consideration for others is so easy to practice yet so uncommon among so many..... It is commendable of you to post this Simon...as usual.. you are a class act.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

arcadeace
03-11-2004, 04:44 AM
You can call me a Yank all you want. I would never call you a racist. From my experience most pointing fingers over names unintended to insult don't care to have much substance beyond their own judgements.

Have a good one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RobertNighthawk
03-11-2004, 04:58 AM
Extreme One, my dear sir, you are a class act and again are showing it by being considerate of the feelings of others. I applaud you.

If we were all so considerate and giving of our time and superb talents what a wonderful world it would be.

Know that I intend to offend no one when I say, "God bless you." S!

LEXX_Luthor
03-11-2004, 04:59 AM
Really depends on context. Like this one...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Russ say six air battles: 1, 2, 4, 5, 14, and 15 Sept, the last being the biggest, with 102 Jap planes engaging 207 Russ. Russ claimed 20, lost 6. Altogether for Sept, Russ claimed 70, lost 14; Japs claimed 121, lost 24.

~ http://www.danford.net/nomonhan.htm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

__________________
"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
"I don't have the V2 or B25s, so I'm going to reinstall" ~Bearcat99
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Alexi_Alx_Anova
03-11-2004, 05:08 AM
Extreme_One, we're playing a game that is a historical recreation. The term 'Jap' was used widely at the time and so is historically correct & appropriate. As said above, I am not offended by the term "aussie" so have little sympathy for people who are offended by 'jap'. When you get down to it, we all play a game that depicts the murder of human beings. Can't get more universally offensive than that! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Alexi

-----------------------------
Drug of choice....coffee

http://web.onetel.net.uk/~alx_747/coffee.jpg
-----------------------------

Rajvosa
03-11-2004, 05:09 AM
Just like Lexx pointed out, everything depends on context in which it is made. If you look at some wartime posters with a japanese solder with big teeth and cocke-bottle glasses and a text like "kick the Jap" or something, then it is clearly a racist message, showing a japanese soldier as some kind of freak of nature. Similar to German charicatures of jews during the thirties.

Anyway, disregard such accusations, Simon!

Regards,

Jasko

http://startrek.gamer.hr/trekologija/vrste/ljudi.4.gif

Extreme_One
03-11-2004, 05:16 AM
Thanks for the words of encouragement guys.

BUT I'm going to disagree with you slightly (I hope you're not offended by thathttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

The person who picked me up on it is a respected member of the community and someone who's opinion I respect. He wasn't being vindictive or spiteful.
I feel that he did me a great service in pointing out that some people may find the term 'Jap' offensive.

We should all show a little consideration day-to-day not just in here.
Sometimes we all could use a reminder.

Have a nice day.

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-11.html). *NEW*

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

Vengeanze
03-11-2004, 05:21 AM
Extreme_one running for ORR mod?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Just kidding.


http://www.bu.edu/chapel/respect/respect.gif

nixon-fiend.
03-11-2004, 05:33 AM
Sounds like "a respected member of the community" is looking for something to do.. and found it throwing eggshells at your feet.

You can't please all the people all the time, I might get offended by someone's sig.. let's say; as i'm a 'brit'.. a spit being shot down by a 109 of something silly like that..

would I be 'in the right' to complain... after all, i had relatives killed in the war... is this disrespect???

It's b*ll*cks.

If you mean to offend then shame on you,,, but if not.. Let's get real.

essemm
03-11-2004, 05:43 AM
NO

BIG

DEAL

Sheesh. If somebody takes offense to the term "Jap", they need to get a life.

I PROCLAIM: From this day forward, if anybody wants to call me a "Canuck", and make fun of me by saying stupid stuff, like "aboot" instead of about, and arbitrarily adding "eh?" onto the end of every sentence, please feel free to do so. I will not be offended, because I am not a stick-in-the-mud.

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/141103-warloch_small.jpg

Bansai Potato
03-11-2004, 06:00 AM
POLITICAL CORRECTNESS RAPIDLY DISAPPEARING UP ITS OWN A$$HOLE

Brit = British so does Limey, none of which offend me

Kraut, Hun etc = German

Ivan, Ruskie, Russ = Russian

Yank, Spam = American

Jap, Nip = Japanese

Chink = Chinese

If you take offence grow up and see the world around you, also consider removing your head from your Anus

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/Ede_EAF92/EAF/24890632.92EastIndiaSquadronpersonnel.jpg

Vengeanze
03-11-2004, 06:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I PROCLAIM: From this day forward, if anybody wants to call me a "Canuck", and make fun of me by saying stupid stuff, like "aboot" instead of about, and arbitrarily adding "eh?" onto the end of every sentence, please feel free to do so. I will not be offended, because I am not a stick-in-the-mud.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sooo, finally I get to post this

http://www.seantataryn.com/myumees/images/9955.jpg

BaldieJr
03-11-2004, 06:28 AM
This thread is offensive to intelligent people. It needs its own slur.

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SeaFireLIV
03-11-2004, 06:33 AM
Jap as offensive? That`s a new one to me. Of course I cannot say too much because I know no Japanese friends.

I really would not consider this term offensive, especially not when compared to some of the truly racist terms used to put down other members of society.

Political Correctness really has gone over the top... It`s dumb.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/storm.jpg
Soon... Very soon....

NetDaemon
03-11-2004, 06:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
You can call me a Yank all you want. I would never call you a racist. From my experience most pointing fingers over names unintended to insult don't care to have much substance beyond their own judgements.

Have a good one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What if I call you a Gringo http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



"Friends don't let friends buy Nvidia FX cards"

NetDaemon
03-11-2004, 07:07 AM
The term "Jap" was actually a racial slur fifty years ago during and after WWII and was used as such against both, Japanese nationals and Japan-American nationals and their descendants.

Now, if someone takes offense for something that happened 50 years ago, it's a bit silly but may happen, same thing like some Hebrew people who still feel offended today at the sight of the hakennkross(sp?) for what happened fifty years ago and have the right to feel like that, or the african-american people too taken offense at being called some names used some time ago.

As Bearcat99 pointed out, being polite and respectful to other people costs nothing and goes a long way into showing what kind of person you are and how you would like to be treated by others.

Now, I'm not saying here that Extreme1 intended to be disrespecful to the Japanese people since we all know what kind of individual he is, but some of those people have the right to be offended and express it in public.

Nevertheless, Simon's public apology, although unnecesary to me, show again what kind of individual he is. If only at least 50% of the people in the world acted like him, wars and hate in general would be a thing of the past.

My 0.02 cents of useless opinion. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



"Friends don't let friends buy Nvidia FX cards"

uberweng
03-11-2004, 07:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alexi_Alx_Anova:
Extreme_One, we're playing a game that is a historical recreation. The term 'Jap' was used widely at the time and so is historically correct & appropriate. As said above, I am not offended by the term "aussie" so have little sympathy for people who are offended by 'jap'. When you get down to it, we all play a game that depicts the murder of human beings. Can't get more universally offensive than that! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Alexi
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont you think this is a kinda weak arguement? I can think of a n-word that was often used during this period (maybe even to describe a group of pilots who are held in high regard by many on this board). Are you saying that its okay to use this word as well? If not, your "correct(?) and appropriate due to historical recreation" arguement kinda falls down.

Uberweng.

ps, we were having a very similar debate at work a few days ago so we asked 28 Japanese people if they thought the term "jap" was derogatory/offensive and they all said yes (or hai). Most also said that they would prefer not to be called "japs".

BuzzardHead
03-11-2004, 07:29 AM
If I were called a "Yank" I would take offense,because being from the "South",I am a true Southern Gentleman.

You can run but...You'll only die out of breath.

Udidtoo
03-11-2004, 07:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NetDaemon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
You can call me a Yank all you want. I would never call you a racist. From my experience most pointing fingers over names unintended to insult don't care to have much substance beyond their own judgements.

Have a good one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>




What if I call you a Gringo http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



"Friends don't let friends buy Nvidia FX cards"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suppose it would depend on the context in which you choose to call me a Gringo. To some its as bad as the N word for African american or calling an oriental "****"
I have worked for the same family owned constuction firm fr over 17 years . They are a wonderful mixture of Spanish/Mexican& Yaqui Indian.
I feel nothing but honor when Jaun Sr. and Maria refer to me as their" Grigo meho" White Son.
On the other hand a car full of Vatos Locos crusing by on VanBuren St and calling me a Pequito Gringo Choncho will not bring a smile.
If you were conveying info from something such as Lexx posted above then I think that its rather absurd to feel that its necessary to edit your post so that the word Jap is changed to something like "Orientals of Pacific Rim and/or Japanese decent.
I have saw the term Nazi used here something like 8 billion times and have never heard any of our fine Duetchland flyers cry foul, that insults all Germanic peoples. It was used in the same way during WWII as the term Jap.To denote the fact that we were required to hate them enough to kill.Not because of race, because they are wrong and we are right, plain and simple.
In other words, yes, I suppose you can call me a gringo. I will choose to belive you mean no harm. As any one who has read any of Extreme Ones posting should have surmised.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

RossC0
03-11-2004, 07:43 AM
Well anyone here offended and of Japanese Origin ??

Because I don't see anyone saying they were personally offended, just friends / colleagues / random people the know, would be / might be offended.

I'm not offended by it but I know that used in a derogatory manner I would be.

Vengeanze
03-11-2004, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Nevertheless, Simon's public apology, although unnecesary to me, show again what kind of individual he is. If only at least 50% of the people in the world acted like him, wars and hate in general would be a thing of the past.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Consequently, if at least 50% of world population acted like Extreme_one we wouldn't have this discussion as WW2 wouldn't have happened and this sim never programmed.

Is that a good thing??

Vengeanze
03-11-2004, 07:48 AM
When in bed with your woman the word c0ck can be a nice word!!

When shouting the same word at your boss when attending the staff party it is a bad word.

NetDaemon
03-11-2004, 07:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Udidtoo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NetDaemon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arcadeace:
You can call me a Yank all you want. I would never call you a racist. From my experience most pointing fingers over names unintended to insult don't care to have much substance beyond their own judgements.

Have a good one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>




What if I call you a Gringo http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



"Friends don't let friends buy Nvidia FX cards"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suppose it would depend on the context in which you choose to call me a Gringo. To some its as bad as the N word for African american or calling an oriental "****"
I have worked for the same family owned constuction firm fr over 17 years . They are a wonderful mixture of Spanish/Mexican& Yaqui Indian.
I feel nothing but honor when Jaun Sr. and Maria refer to me as their" Grigo meho" White Son.
On the other hand a car full of Vatos Locos crusing by on VanBuren St and calling me a Pequito Gringo Choncho will not bring a smile.
If you were conveying info from something such as Lexx posted above then I think that its rather absurd to feel that its necessary to edit your post so that the word Jap is changed to something like "Orientals of Pacific Rim and/or Japanese decent.
I have saw the term Nazi used here something like 8 billion times and have never heard any of our fine Duetchland flyers cry foul, that insults all Germanic peoples. It was used in the same way during WWII as the term Jap.To denote the fact that we were required to hate them enough to kill.Not because of race, because they are wrong and we are right, plain and simple.
In other words, yes, I suppose you can call me a gringo. I will choose to belive you mean no harm. As any one who has read any of Extreme Ones posting should have surmised.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Intelligent answer, not the kind I was looking for but nice to have had it anyway.

What I meant was that some of the terms used here are not racial/national slurs and some are and thus cannot be treated as equal.

For example, some here say that being called "aussie" or "canuck" wouldn't offend them and they're right since those terms aren't either racial or national slurs.

But terms like "chink", "wap", "jap" and "gringo" had been used as slurs and are still being used as such by some just like you mentioned.

That's what I meant by suggesting "gringo" instead of "yank" which is not a slur.

Although it is very true that the context in which these terms are used means a lot, it is also true that those to whom we aply these terms to have all the right to decide in which context they take them.

My extra cent of worthless rant http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



"Friends don't let friends buy Nvidia FX cards"

BaldieJr
03-11-2004, 07:52 AM
If I say anything here that offends anyone: Tough sh1t. Sticks and stones and all that.

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Extreme_One
03-11-2004, 07:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
If I say anything here that offends anyone: Tough sh1t. Sticks and stones and all that.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice attitude! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-11.html). *NEW*

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

Huxley_S
03-11-2004, 07:57 AM
There was a _lot_ of racism during WWII - (understatement of the year).

But I don't mean just from the master-race types. Every nationality had some derogitory word for everyone else.

Are any Brits seriously offended to be called "Rosbif", "Limey", "Tommy" or "Pommie"? I think not. I find it amusing and endearing really...

NetDaemon
03-11-2004, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
If I say anything here that offends anyone: Tough sh1t. Sticks and stones and all that.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's the nature of the current Internet man, anonymity (sp?) and stuff.

Try calling someone "jap" in the street, odds are you'll either get sued or a.s.s.-kicked. Same for other "terms".



"Friends don't let friends buy Nvidia FX cards"

NetDaemon
03-11-2004, 08:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vengeanze:
When in bed with your woman the word c0ck can be a nice word!!

When shouting the same word at your boss when attending the staff party it is a bad word.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thought you meant the word "d.i.c.k." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



"Friends don't let friends buy Nvidia FX cards"

uberweng
03-11-2004, 08:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RossC0:
Well anyone here offended and of Japanese Origin ??

Because I don't see anyone saying they were personally offended, just friends / colleagues / random people the know, would be / might be offended.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just tried another experiment, i called my wife a "jap" (she is japanese) and she looked very offended and retaliated by calling me a sheepshaggering kiwi. fair enough. She also reacted stongly to "yellow peril" and "nip", two other "historically correct & appropriate terms" that Alexi_Alx_Anova might like to use.

Uberweng

rgoodrich1978
03-11-2004, 08:17 AM
Us USA guys are "Yanks" I believe.

-PURGE-
its good for you

The_Red_Spoon
03-11-2004, 08:19 AM
People who know each other can call each other what they like (with permission), but that doesn't mean that I (a stranger) can call them a **** and get away with it.

'Jap' doesn't ring any alarm bells with me (to me, it's just a contraction of 'Japanese'), but maybe because I'm not Japanese (to me, 'nip' has always been the racist term for Japanese people')

mortoma
03-11-2004, 08:25 AM
My wife is from Venezuela and her friends/relatives call people from the U.S. "gringoes" all the time. Some people take offense while some, like me, don't. They do not use the word gringo derrogatorily, but if some white person wants something to cry about, they decide to take convenient offense. Some people go out of their way to find something to get offended about so they can be coddled in return. Or maybe they aren't so much seeking sympathy, but are looking for a fight because they are the aggressive types. In the U.S., we have many minorites that way. I don't think the word "Jap" is anything but short for Japanese.

Huxley_S
03-11-2004, 08:27 AM
Good call uberweng... the science of "acceptibility of derogitory terms" is complex... I was thinking about it as I walked down to the shops for a packet of ***s.

Why are the derogitory words for British people, Austrailians, New Zealanders and Americans not really very offensive, whilst derogitory words for other nationalities are?

It must be something to do with how the word is linked to oppression or degradation. How that works exactly is difficult to work out...

I will smoke a *** and ponder it for a few minutes....

BSS_Goat
03-11-2004, 08:27 AM
It depends on how you say it. On the net you cant tell peoples intentions by tones or facial expressions so it depends on how the reader interprets it.

ELITE1499
03-11-2004, 08:33 AM
i am asian in ancestry. i have japanese friends. i am taiwanese myself.

when people call my friends japs, its just not good (i wouldnt say bad). i wouldnt say its a racist term but its sort of a derogatory term. its just that when japanese people hear someone say it,it just stands out
for them.

when i hear people call me or my friends chinks, we get slightly offended. its just not good to call chinese (or asian for that matter) people that. if you knew the history of the dynasty that the word chink is based off of, you would understand.

so my view: chink is a derogatory word. jap is less like one but still (why say it? if you know its going to cause some sort of conflict, just dont...)

flyingskid2
03-11-2004, 08:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Huxley_S:
There was a _lot_ of racism during WWII - <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Apart from the nazi's aryan racism, and racism in america, i wasn't aware of any. Most other countries had only nationalism taken to extreme. of course, most countries we're also homogenous racially.

ELITE1499
03-11-2004, 08:39 AM
and im going to submit another hypothesis. non asian people usually cant tell exactly from what country asians are from. they just generalize them when they see them. so when they call people chinks and japs, we get offended (because we are not what they call us). for example, when my friends from korea are called chinks, they get POed and might kill people. wait, those are just my friends. but i believe what i said to be valid. i grew up in a southern town and at first when kids at school didnt know me, they would refer to me or call me a chink and laugh. so i guess i am also biased. i believe chink and jap to be just BAD in nature.

BaldieJr
03-11-2004, 08:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Extreme_One:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
If I say anything here that offends anyone: Tough sh1t. Sticks and stones and all that.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice attitude! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can not be oppressed by passive-aggressive techniques.

TOLERANCE is a two-way street. If you can't 'turn the other cheek', you have no moral high-ground to stand on.

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flyingskid2
03-11-2004, 08:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ELITE1499:
and im going to submit another hypothesis. non asian people usually cant tell exactly from what country asians are from. they just generalize them when they see them. so when they call people chinks and japs, we get offended (because we are not what they call us). for example, when my friends from korea are called chinks, they get POed and might kill people. wait, those are just my friends. but i believe what i said to be valid. i grew up in a southern town and at first when kids at school didnt know me, they would refer to me or call me a chink and laugh. so i guess i am also biased. i believe chink and jap to be just BAD in nature.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

here's a more general hypothesis. in fact, i know this to be true, so it's not even a hypothesis. it's law. people have higher facial recognition skills with those types of faces they are more exposed with. "they" all look alike, if you haven't seen a lot of "them". true for all people.

ELITE1499
03-11-2004, 08:59 AM
right, so it just goes to prove my point that it ticks people off when using derogatory words for a general group of people...

btw, this thread is interesting for i can gain more insight of my fellow posters and decide whether to put a few more cannon shells in one or the other while playing online. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif so call me racist... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Holosite
03-11-2004, 10:35 AM
I'm 1/2 Japanese and have never been referred to as a "Jap" by anyone still eating food without the use of a Straw...Oh,and to the Southern Gentleman,I'd hate to be called "Yank" as well,even though I'm a NY'er,"Yank" only reminds me of My country's insistence on constantly meddling with everything,even our own Countrymen....

Holosite
03-11-2004, 10:38 AM
But,to clarify calling a Jap fighter a Jap fighter doesnt bother me at all,"Japanese" is kinda long,just dont call me jap.

Isatheprophet
03-11-2004, 10:43 AM
yeah jap is not offensive, after its the intention behind it. Dam pc nutters what to cage our thoughts and minds, they are doing it pretty well legally in the usa and the uk anti freedom laws. Man I do not give a toss if I offend anyone, why you cannot please people all the time.. Some idiot might not like because of the way you look or speak, I mean you not going to get a sex change to suit them are you.

Isatheprophet
03-11-2004, 10:45 AM
By the way look at some of the japaness martial arts sites they only allow foriegners to train on certain days, to me that is definitely racists and restrictive. The japaness are well known for their views on foriegners etc. Do reseach and see what i mean.

essemm
03-11-2004, 11:02 AM
I have Japanese friends. I asked them about this, and they said that it's not a big deal, but they understand why some people would take offence to it.

They then called me "Wide-eyed GaiJin", and asked me if I eat moose-meat.

I found it amusing.

My wife is not Canadian, and when she is speaking with her family in their language, she refers to us as "whities" (translation). It's not meant to be derogatory, and so I take no offense.

Which brings me to my point. If the term was not meant to harm, and somebody reads harm in it, then isn't it the fault of the person reading in?

Just a thought...

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uberweng
03-11-2004, 11:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Holosite:
But,to clarify calling a Jap fighter a Jap fighter doesnt bother me at all,"Japanese" is kinda long,just dont call me jap.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said holosite, maybe you hit the nail on the head with this post.

Taylortony
03-11-2004, 11:38 AM
Quote
For all UK residence
I live in the West Country. I know the rest of the rest of you think we are Cow tipping, Cider Drinking Idiots who cant read or write but can drive a tractor.
I would like to make it quite clear that I have never been Cow tipping in my life.

madsarmy QUOTE

bet you have you cider drinking yokel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Joke http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

From a Northerner hehehehehehehehehehe

Cold_Gambler
03-11-2004, 11:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by essemm:

They then called me "Wide-eyed GaiJin", and asked me if I eat moose-meat.

I found it amusing.

Which brings me to my point. If the term was not meant to harm, and somebody reads harm in it, then isn't it the fault of the person reading in?

Just a thought...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I spent a year in Japan, and was always polite but firm in indicating that I much preferred the term "gaiKOKUjin"- the problem with the use of "gaijin" in a non-derogatory context is that it legitimizes it's use in DEROGATORY situations... in that year 99% of the time people were cool and understood why I objected.

PS- Extreme1, you are indeed a class act.

ELITE1499
03-11-2004, 12:01 PM
Walk blindly to the light and reach out for his hand
Don't ask any questions and don't try to understand
Open up your mind and then open up your heart
And you will see that you and me aren't very far apart

'Cause I believe that love is the answer
I believe that love will find the way

Violence is spread worldwide and there are families on the street
And we sell drugs to children now oh why can't we just see
That all we do is eliminate our future with the things we do today
Money is our incentive now so that makes it okay

But I believe that love is the answer
I believe that love will find the way
I believe that love is the answer
I believe that love will find the way

I've been seeing Lisa now for a little over a year
She said she's never been so happy but Lisa lives in fear
That one day daddy's gonna find out she's in love
With a ****** from the streets
Oh how he would lose it then but she's still here with me
'Cause she believes that love will see it through
And one day he'll understand
And he'll see me as a person not just a black man

'Cause I believe that love is the answer
I believe that love will find the way
I believe I believe I believe I believe that love is the answer
I believe that love will find the way
Love will find the way
Love will find the way
Love will find the way
Please love find the way
Please love find the way

madsarmy
03-11-2004, 12:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:



bet you have you cider drinking yokel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Joke http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

From a Northerner hehehehehehehehehehe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taylortony

Us Brits spend most of our time laughing at ourselves. IMOA I think it's one of our qualities.

You just keep that feeding that whippit mushy peas & gravyhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

yours faithfully
A southern shandy drinkerhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

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"LOOK MUM NO HANDS!"

Franzen
03-11-2004, 12:43 PM
Whether you say Jap, Jerry, Yankee, Canuck, or whatever, there will always be someone who will cry offence. I've often thought I may have trouble for using the term "Jew". Maybe I should be saying "Jewish". Honestly I don't know. My name is "Fritz" and all my French friends refuse to call me by that name, instead they call me 'Friedrich". They say in France "Fritz" is used sort of as an insult.
Anyways, I think that with an ounce of common sense we would look at the context in which the word was used rather than the insecurities of a whiner. The reality is that the squeeky wheel gets the grease. BTW, is the term "whiner" politically correct? I can think of a few other less politically correct words to use.
Don't worry so much about the word as much as the context in which it was used. Intention is what it's all about.

Fritz

arcadeace
03-11-2004, 12:53 PM
[/QUOTE]
I can not be oppressed by passive-aggressive techniques.

TOLERANCE is a two-way street. If you can't 'turn the other cheek', you have no moral high-ground to stand on.
QUOTE]

That's right. America is saturated with political correctness. The self-righteous intolerance of many claiming sensitivity has become morally repugnant.

If I take a self-appointed high ground and try to impose a standard of speech according to my sensitivities regardless of another's intent, I've become prejudiced against their right of conscience.

Certainly some words when spoken with derogatory intent will offend. I'm not a racist nor prejudiced toward anyone. If I'm judged by another its become their narrow-minded prejudice. Unfortunately in America, even hatred. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Franzen
03-11-2004, 01:00 PM
I forgot to mention, thumbs up for the apology. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif You da man/woman!
He he he, just trying to be politically correct http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I've often wondered how words like"political" and "correct" get into the same sentence. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Fritz

ELITE1499
03-11-2004, 01:10 PM
werd

antifreeze
03-11-2004, 02:04 PM
I bet 90% of people in this thread are European and American Caucasians. Frankly, who cares if *you* don't find the term offensive? It isn't a term that is aimed at you, and so you probably don't have any connotations associated with the word what-so-ever; of course you don't feel that it's offensive!
You don't you mind being called a 'Brit' or a 'Yank'? I'm not surprised. Probably no-one has ever used these terms whilst seriously threatening you, telling you to "f*** off 'home' where you belong, you f****** white Brit". If you got that on a weekly basis, I think you would get sick of the reference pretty quickly. Who knows, you may eventually start to find the reference 'white' distasteful if it was always used in a nasty, negative way?

For the people who *do* regularly have to tolerate these types of threats, these slang references to their country/family-origin usually become strongly associated with dangerous situations, a string of nasty expletives, and tend to carry only negativity in their usage.

Is it 'political correctness gone mad'? Or is it that some of you are so shallow that you can't empathise with other peoples' lives and see that they might have different problems than you? For us it may just feel like an abbreviation, but for a lot of people it is a word that is associated with stress, fear, inequality and hate. I think that to suggest that 'Jap' is merely a neutral abbreviation is a bit naive.

In short, it doesn't matter that this slang is used in a completely innocent context on the forum or in the game, because other people abuse the term so much that it is no longer neutral in any context to those on the receiving end of it.

BTW, I think I'm right in saying that 'Political Correctness' was actually a term invented by *right-wing* Democrats in the USA. You see, the Liberals thought it would be a good idea to promote being more aware of the differences in our lives and lifestyles so that we could become a more empathetic and considerate society. But of course the right-wingers didn't like all this socialist stuff, so they used their positions of power in publishing and media to create a backlash against the empathy and sensitivity that the Liberals were trying to promote. They did this by grossly exaggerating common-sense ideas and parading them as 'Liberal policy'. Remember all the stuff about being 'vertically challenged' in the 1990's? All that was part of a co-ordinated political attack on Liberalism. So now you know who to thank for most of the over-sensitive, exaggerated language and ideas that you have heard in the last ten years. But if you have a brain instead of a knee-jerk-reaction, you will probably be able to see that some sensible modified language and behaviour is just common decency and a good thing for a better-functioning society.

I'm not suggesting that we should accommodate every fragile, over-sensitive person on the planet (they do exist). And 'where to draw the line' is usually not definitively black and white. But simply, the more effort each of us makes, the nicer this place will be to live.

http://forgotten.battles.pulpo.co.uk/il2logo.gif

[This message was edited by antifreeze on Thu March 11 2004 at 01:13 PM.]

ELITE1499
03-11-2004, 02:31 PM
WERD!!!!! BRAVO!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

buz13
03-11-2004, 02:58 PM
From a biological/genetic standpoint there is just one race of humans and we all belong to it. So just what do people use to distinguish "race".....damn if I can figure it out but they can't use biological/genetic evidence.
Most of us understand that certain names are likely to offend different groups....usually if they are meant to offend. So if you want not to offend just don't use them...it's common courtesy and shows you care about other people's feelings. We all know the term JAP was used by the allies in WW2 to degrade the image of an enemy...happens in just about every war. It's unfortunate that the same terms then usually get applied to the population as a whole. Japanese that were sent to "relocation" camps from the west coast of the US in WW2 often returned to their homes after release to find signs reading "THIS IS WHITE MAN'S LAND JAPS KEEP MOVING". If you look different and your culture is different you can bet you will come under attack from some of the majority group.
By the way....I'm one of the no good drunken MICKS.....but at least we have our own day.

Sabla
03-11-2004, 10:47 PM
I would think that "Werd!" (alternative spelling for "Word", a slang word for "I agree" stereotypically associated with "hip-hop" or "ghetto" culture) would be offensive to those of African-American heritage. It suggest that a certain segment of America just can't spell right or talk right.
I know it was just intended to be humourous and I get the joke but since this is the topic of discussion.....
Normally I would not even blink an eye at this... and have jokingly said "word" when with friends from time to time much to their amusement.

http://img7.photobucket.com/albums/v18/revwarnut/P40-skulls-small.jpg
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Dad was a Crew Chief in the 88th.

Franzen
03-12-2004, 12:02 AM
Ha ha ha, I am enlightened! I thought he was mispelling "wierd". I get it, not often but I get it.

In his defence I would also like to mention that this is also exactly how language evolves. As a hobby and profession I enjoy studying language and it's evolution. You wouldn't be able to communicate with an Englishman from 900 years ago. So honstly, I don't think polical correctness applies here. Just my opinion.

Fritz

Old_Canuck
03-12-2004, 12:39 AM
From my perspective, the important thing here is that Extreme_One apologised for something he felt was wrong. Whether it was right or wrong is overshadowed by the fact that he was able to apologise and that makes him a man worthy of respect IMO.

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

Franzen
03-12-2004, 12:44 AM
"werd" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Old_Canuck
03-12-2004, 12:46 AM
Group hug?

OC

"You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing."

tenmmike
03-12-2004, 01:05 AM
well when i call my uk friends a "brit" their not offended .i use jap cause its short and easy, there only a few ppl that the short version sounds right ...hmmmm jap ..brit ..thats about it russki nothing else works right .lets get over our over sensitivity ..i grew up in TEXAS and mexicans often called white ppl "anglo" but it was not ment bad and i didnt take it bad lets move on.

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif U.S INFANTRY 1984-1991

Extreme_One
03-12-2004, 05:12 AM
I guess we pretty much all agree then that whether YOU find the word offensive or not is irrelivant.

The fact that someone MIGHT find the word offensive was enough to make me realise that perhaps I should be more careful in future. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone felt the same?

Nuff said!

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

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BaldieJr
03-12-2004, 07:04 AM
I fing "the" to be very offensive. Its too painfull for me to explain.

Please don't use it again. Its oppressive.

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Aaron_GT
03-12-2004, 07:10 AM
Bearcat wrote:
"Wop, or Limey or Frog or Kraut"

These terms are generally offensive to the
nationals from these countries. Perhaps
the 2nd one less so (only my wife's allowed
to call me a Limey, and only because I love
her!)

Kampfmeister
03-12-2004, 09:37 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Old_Canuck:
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________
From my perspective, the important thing here is that Extreme_One apologised for something he felt was wrong. Whether it was right or wrong is overshadowed by the fact that he was able to apologise and that makes him a man worthy of respect IMO.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

Well put Canuck, my thoughts exactly. There are many good posts on this thread. However it almost appears as if some individuals are apologizing for Extreme_One's apology. Extreme_One, it is an honor to post on the same forum as you.

As for myself, I have to admit that I've never really liked the idea of people using the term Jap to describe something. Because all I can ever think about when I hear it are of all those horrible WWII propaganda films. To me the word "Jap" has never been used for anything else except as a derogatory term. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif But I'm also being foolish if I think that people on this forum are using it in any kind of a derogatory manner. I believe the vast majority of the individuals here simply use it as a shortcut to describe anything Japanese, and not as a slur.

I myself will not use it. I spent about 4 years in Japan during my Navy years. In all that time I never heard the word "Jap" used once by any military personnel I came in contact with while in Japan. Whenever we referred to the Japanese, we would use the term "JN" for Japanese National. Those of us that had spent some time in Japan had come to respect and admire the people. They in turn never showed us anything else but kindness and politeness. We often felt more at home in Japan than we did back in the United States. Cheers and Good Night. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Bearcat99
03-12-2004, 10:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Bearcat wrote:
"Wop, or Limey or Frog or Kraut"

These terms are generally offensive to the
nationals from these countries. Perhaps
the 2nd one less so (only my wife's allowed
to call me a Limey, and only because I love
her!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes they are and thats my point. They arent racial slurs but they are offensive. Hey.. I just re-read my post... I forgot the word "racial" before slur... well you made my point so...

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