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Sorrosyss
08-22-2015, 04:37 PM
This is a follow up to my recent thread, but I felt it was time to apply some more detailed theorycrafting to this popular topic.

The Father of Understanding has been an entity referred to by the Templars throughout the history of the series, and indeed has some real world relevance to the actual Knights Templar. By the name itself, it surely implies a state of knowledge. In the Assassin's Creed lore, knowledge is widely acknowledged as the sixth sense - that which gives Assassins their extra sensory abilities such as Eagle Vision - which allows them to discern auras for one.

Many have interpreted the Father as a metaphysical entity, or a supreme being. A belief system even. As with all great myths and legends though, there is likely some element of truth to it. The Father's link with the origins of the Templar order - which we know has existed since the time of Adam and Eve - point us directly to the First Civilization. We now know a few further facts about the Father that can allow us to actually do some further analysis.


1) The Father is not Baphomet.
http://i.imgur.com/Yo5ifSC.png



2) They are an individual, with an identity.
http://i.imgur.com/Tdtz17f.png



3) There is a link to the Phoenix Project, which attempts to sequence First Civilization DNA.

http://i.imgur.com/M4SNDPe.jpg
(Credit to Access The Animus - The text states "Who is the Father of Understanding?")



In terms of the narrative, it would make sense for the Father to be an existing character, thus tying the franchise together. But we cannot discount the possibility that it remains a new character that we have not yet encountered first hand.

So, with our criteria that the Father surely must be someone from the First Civilization time period, let's have a look at the most likely candidates.



Aita (Sages)

http://i.imgur.com/nzqxRDl.png

The husband of Juno, Aita was part of the First Civilization's efforts to try and transfer their minds to other vessels. In this instance, they attempted to transfer Aita to a human body where he deteriorated rapidly. Before freeing him by a mercy kill, Juno took samples of Aita's genetic code and applied it within human DNA. As a result, from time to time Aita would partially reincarnate within the human lineage, resulting in what we know within the lore as Sages - such as Bartholomew Roberts and François-Thomas Germain.

The theory holds, that as this individual could continually reappear through time, the fate and direction of the Templars could have been guided by his hand throughout history. In Unity, we saw Jacques de Molay was in possession of the Codex Patex Intellectus, so we see a direct reference again to the Father of Understanding. The only point that stands against this, is that Germain mentions the Father of Understanding in a third person perspective in his closing dialogue. If he was Aita speaking at that moment, it could potentially debunk this theory completely.



Juno

http://i.imgur.com/TxglFrs.png

Where there is Aita, there has to be Juno. One cannot discount the lengths that she will go to make her plans come to fruition. We know her machinations of The Grey very well, and the Instruments of The First Will are a group seemingly created to serve her grand scheme. The links to the Phoenix Project are plain to see, not least by the fact that Juno appeared as a burning Phoenix within AC3.

Juno's plans also closely ally with the Templars, that the world should be ruled by order. In keeping humanity in check, it also helps create her prison planet that she craves upon her return. The manifesto of the Instruments certainly has some choice words regarding Abstergo;


Today's AbstergoTemplarFrauds have given themselves to base practices and claim WRONGLY that man and woman are delicate and sensible and feeling creatures in and of themselves and therefore deserve satiety and comfort and MINDLESSNESS in the presence of pleasure. Nothing could be sicker falser disgusting lying b*stards...

Our purpose is not ours to achieve but ours to be RECEIVED given by Her Graces and Instruction. Death to the false fabricators of pleasure and indolence! The OLD ORDER must be restored the NEW ORDER destroyed. TRUE TEMPLARS dedicated to ORDER AND STABILITY AND PEACE through the application of Her Iron Will and not through the dulling satisfactions of pleasure and indolence...

The NEW ORDER is a disease and JUNO - MAY SHE GUIDE US INTO THE GRAY - will be our cure. Remember this remember that it was in the 18th century slipping into the next that the sickness took hold and men began to believe they were apart and individual of the ORIGINAL PLAN.

It would suggest that the Templars were originally created by her, and that the modern version of the Templars has corrupted her original vision. The obvious argument against this theory though is the naming convention - why not call herself the Mother of Understanding? However, within Syndicate she did directly refer to herself as the Mother of Wisdom.



Cain

http://i.imgur.com/gs4Rd7D.png

Cain was the first born son of the hybrids Adam and Eve. As the biblical story goes, he killed his own brother Abel - for a Piece of Eden within our AC universe. For this he was 'marked' for his transgression, (which Clay told us about in AC2) with the Mark of Cain - which became the Templar cross. United under the cross, the Templars were born and the search for further Pieces of Eden began. According to all we know, Cain very much was the first Templar.

As per the Glyph of AC2, Cain took the title Master Mahan - master of a 'great secret'. Throughout the ages, the Templars then adjusted this title to Grandmaster. He cannot be discounted as a prime candidate for the Father.



Adam

http://i.imgur.com/deuTF9t.png

Bear with me here. Yes, Adam and Eve originally broke free together with the stolen apple and helped lead the human rebellion against their First Civilization oppressors. From varied sources, we know that humanity initially argued over the Pieces of Eden with many wanting to hide them away from harming humanity, whilst others wanted to embrace them to further the human race. Both of these factions became what we know now to be the Assassins and Templars.

Is it not interesting though, that throughout we hear "Eve will lead us". What happened to Adam? One assumes they were seperated? If the division of opinion on the Pieces of Eden began between the original hybrids, could Adam have in fact been the one to encourage his son Cain to seek out the Pieces? To Cain, he very much would have been the Father of Understanding.



Another Member of The First Civilization

http://i.imgur.com/VDYBfZH.png

So let's stop and have a look at some of the potential new characters we could see. Whilst Adam and Eve may have escaped with the original Apple of Eden, one has to ask the question who gave it to them?

There was Consus, a confirmed member of the First Civilization that was another Etruscan god (like Minerva). His ties with the Shroud of Eden are self evident, but he very much sounds like he was trapped in a hidden box for many centuries so I can't see it being him - besides Templars mistaking the Shroud's voice for being a deity.

There is the Etruscan god Prumathe, commonly known as Prometheus. In greek mythology, he was the creator of mankind, and stole the fire of Mount of Olympus to give to humanity. The penalty of his transgression was for his liver to be eaten by an Eagle - which is an interesting image given the Assassins association.

There is some speculation about Clay's blood writing from the first game. We see a pentagram, which has been associated with Venus - aka Aphrodite, another confirmed member of the First Civilization. She was more known for being a goddess of love and beauty however.

In the blood we see the Eye of Horus. Horus was the son of Osiris, another confirmed member of the First Civilization. Osiris was known for the afterlife and the underworld, so a link to the Father seems pretty small.

Clay also wrote "Quetzcoaltz's hunger lies the Answers". Though misspelled, this is more interesting as Quetzalcoatl is the Aztec god of wisdom. He was traditionally portrayed as a flying serpent though. Speaking of serpents...



Lucifer / Satan

http://i.imgur.com/jU4nEsR.png

As the story goes in the biblical Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were convinced by a speaking serpent to take an apple from the Tree of Knowledge.


"Then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:5)

The common modern analysis is that the serpent was Satan himself. By giving the knowledge to the original hybrids we could see a link there to him being the Father.

There is also the glyph from AC2;


And Satan said unto Cain: Swear unto me by thy throat, and if thou tell it thou shalt die. And all these things were done in secret.

We know the Templars love that last word anyway.



An Extraterrestrial (Alien)

http://i.imgur.com/ZsB6VSH.png

I know, I know. It is a stretch. But there is some evidence.

Both AC3 and Rogue make repeated references to Sky people. In the real world, these are popularized by the Ancient Alien theory to be visitors from the stars. To our knowledge, the First Civilization were contained to Earth, and not aliens themselves. If they were space farers, why did they not leave the planet before the solar flare? Obvious answer, they could not.

Holding to the Ancient Alien theory, if the Father of Understanding came down to visit Earth on occasion, they could have guided humanity through the ages.

There is a hidden audio file within AC4 where John Standish praises you for uncovering his secret message. (Have a listen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkAt2btWDnc)) He also tells you that you really should have been an Astronaut, as the real possibility is "out there". I just find it interesting that a Sage acknowledges space in this way.



Minerva

http://i.imgur.com/6g0DMH1.png

Minerva has traditionally been aiding the Assassins throughout the series. Do not let that supposed loyalty fool you though. Of all of the members of the First Civilization, she was the one that spent the most time within the Nexus. From there she would look at all the permutations of time, and how their manipulations would play out. She placed alot of faith into Desmond, but it would be foolhardy of us to believe it was her only scheme to try and safeguard the future.

Within Roman mythology, she is regarded as the Goddess of Wisdom. Again though, the Father naming convention works against her case.


Jupiter

http://i.imgur.com/rKUWlIe.png

Jupiter was the third member of the First Civilization, alongside Juno and Minerva, tasked in trying to find solutions to circumvent the First Disaster - the coronal mass ejection. Beyond this, the character's motivations have been pretty sparse. We know he sided with Minerva on imprisoning Juno, and other imagery showed him firing a gun - presumably at humans. He aided Desmond, presumably at the behest of Minerva, but what other plans this individual was working on we simply do not know.

Within Roman mythology he was the king of the gods, the equivalent of Zeus from Greek mythology. By all accounts, a very powerful individual. ""Even the gods who are not his natural children address him as Father, and all the gods rise in his presence."



Eve

http://i.imgur.com/ot1qITA.png

Let me start by saying I do not believe Eve to be the Father. But for the sake of completeness, I have added her to the list. We know that she lead early humanity, directly in the case of the rebellion against the First Civilization. So there is some evidence of her attempts to shape humanity. Beyond that, there is little evidence of her machinations. As with Minerva and Juno though, her gender does not lend credence to her case.




So what say you Initiates? Is it an existing character? Someone new? Vote away.

Whatever the truth may be. Whatever you think you may know. The reality is that Darby McDevitt has already changed the fate of the AC universe in the time it has taken you to read this sentence. Do not trifle with this one true Father. -_-
E.

[Credit to the AC Wiki (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Creed_Wiki) for the images as always]

HDinHB
08-22-2015, 07:09 PM
There is the Etruscan god Prumathe, commonly known as Prometheus. In greek mythology, he was the creator of mankind, and stole the fire of Mount of Olympus to give to humanity. The penalty of his transgression was for his liver to be eaten by an Eagle - which is an interesting image given the Assassins association.


I like the connection you made there. IIRC, Prometheus was chained to a rock, the eagle ate his liver, his liver grew back, the eagle ate it again--with the cycle intended to repeat forever (until Hercules freed him). That eternal conflict, with no victory, is a fitting analog to Templars vs. Assassins. But Prometheus, with his whole stealing from the gods thing, seems more Assassiny to me.

I would vote your <spoiler> but <spoiler> is not one of the options. Maybe <spoiler> fits under Alien?

Altair1789
08-22-2015, 07:16 PM
Seeing how the templars seem to be based on free mason/ illuminati conspiracy theories, I'd usually say Satan, but that's not something that's ever happening in this series

I think it's Cain

Sorrosyss
08-22-2015, 08:08 PM
I would vote your <spoiler> but <spoiler> is not one of the options. Maybe <spoiler> fits under Alien?

*nod* Ssssh. Don't let him hear us.

Ahem. I mean... *clears throat* Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

VoldR
08-22-2015, 08:34 PM
A random thought, assuming the word "father" or whatever the original word was, has not simply been taken as a title for man because people think man is superior and forgetting who or what the gender of the person in question really was...

As Minerva pointed out I Desmond on how details can and will change to suit themselves after the passing of said person.
:)

VoldR
08-22-2015, 08:36 PM
Alien??? In AC3 & Rogue??? Where? Oo

I just finished both games recently and saw no reference to it... Other then an umbrella.

dxsxhxcx
08-22-2015, 09:01 PM
I hope they don't go that route (of making the Father of Understanding an enemy/phisical entity), but I can totally see them making "Consus" play this role, a character who has already appeared here and there but didn't draw much attention and that will reveal himself as the mastermind behind everything that happened until now, stopping Juno when she is about to succeed on her plans because she isn't needed anymore, becoming the next menace we need to stop...

RA503
08-22-2015, 09:51 PM
Consus,people who read project legacy entries in AC wiki know that this entity have some connection with the Shroud maybe he is Juno's father that she said in a AC 3 e-mail,in mythology Juno's father is Saturn but,they change things like Aita being her husband...

I expeculate that The Father found a way to be alive in the present like Juno,because of that ''the father of understanding guide you to us'' in the end of Rogue. maybe he controls destiny or the reality ''brahman'' ''In Hinduism, "Brahman" is the basis of all that exists in the universe, and the fabric of all being. It is also defined as the ultimate truth.'' by AC wiki...

Jessigirl2013
08-22-2015, 10:31 PM
I never really cared. ;)
Just assumed we would never find out, Hope they don't screw it up if they give it an identify.

Sorrosyss
08-23-2015, 11:21 AM
A random thought, assuming the word "father" or whatever the original word was, has not simply been taken as a title for man because people think man is superior and forgetting who or what the gender of the person in question really was...

As Minerva pointed out I Desmond on how details can and will change to suit themselves after the passing of said person.
:)

Totally agree with you. As you say, it would fit their agenda to pretend to be something that they are not - classic misdirection. And that's the reason that we have three females in the list. ;)


Alien??? In AC3 & Rogue??? Where? Oo

I just finished both games recently and saw no reference to it... Other then an umbrella.

Off the top of my head, I can remember the cave paintings in AC3. As for ACRo, did you collect the totems? They unlock the legend of the Sky-Woman.

Sky people show up in a lot of ancient cultures and legends, as they funnily enough supposedly descended from the sky. Many have theorized that back then the only flight possible must have come from aliens. Within the AC universe its kinda hinted that they were First Civilization related, but it is left deliberately vague. And as far as we know they did not have space faring technology, so believe what you will I guess.


I never really cared. ;)
Just assumed we would never find out, Hope they don't screw it up if they give it an identify.

You wound every Templar fan. :p Some mysteries should remain unknown. Unless it is a great deception - then I wanna know. I feel this may apply in this instance.

Locopells
08-23-2015, 12:28 PM
First Civ had limited space travel (AC2 glyphs put a POE on the moon), so Sky Woman is presumably Juno, et al.

RA503
08-23-2015, 02:48 PM
First Civ had limited space travel (AC2 glyphs put a POE on the moon), so Sky Woman is presumably Juno, et al.

And the Father can be the ''Great Spirit'' the Skywoman father described in the beginning of the history


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTZKCpFAJ_w

Sorrosyss
08-23-2015, 03:33 PM
First Civ had limited space travel (AC2 glyphs put a POE on the moon), so Sky Woman is presumably Juno, et al.

I always took the apple on the moon to have been one of the twelve that they rocketed into orbit to try shape the consensus of the planet's minds. Juno mentioned it in AC3.


We sent a dozen of them skyward - but there was no way to maintain control.

I read that as 'skyward', meaning they remained on the ground. And no control suggesting they were not in piloted vessels, but more likely rockets of some kind.

I concede that it is a bit of grey area though, and frankly a bit odd that this high technology people couldn't have mastered space flight. But then at the same time we know they rode around on camels. So... yeah. :D


And the Father can be the ''Great Spirit'' the Skywoman father described in the beginning of the history


Yep, thanks for posting this. This was where I was going with the sky people theory for the Father. I'm not so sure that the woman is Juno, but that's a debate for another time.

king-hailz
08-23-2015, 05:59 PM
I voted for Adam. Not because I think it's him but because I want it to be him. I just find the concept of Eve leading the assassins throughout history and Adam leading the Templars to be really interesting! We say Cain and Able split to become assassins and templars however it doesn't mean Cain is the father of understanding... Well, Cain started the templar order, and who is his father? The father who understood his conflict with his brother.

Shahkulu101
08-23-2015, 07:32 PM
I think that the Father of Understanding could be to the Templar's what Juno is (or was) to the Assassin's. So he/she manipulates members of the order to their own end, just as Juno used Ezio, Connor and Desmond to further her own goal.

Or perhaps The Father isn't a purely selfish figure, and is a member of the first civ who subscribes to the Templar philosophy and genuinely guides and supports the Templar's throughout the ages.

itsamea-mario
08-23-2015, 10:17 PM
Why does it have to be anyone?

D.I.D.
08-23-2015, 10:31 PM
Why does it have to be anyone?

Previously, it didn't. It could have been the Christian God, or an alternative similar figure, or an entirely cynical story the top rank uses to control the lower orders. We know it is someone now, because of Darby McDevitt's tweets, and the identity is the subject of secrecy so it must be someone who matters enough to warrant that kind of tease.

Senningiri_GR
08-24-2015, 01:30 PM
For a reason I always thought that is was The Father from The Holy Trinity as in Assassin's Creed, Assassin's Creed 2 Templars where Cristians

Hans684
08-24-2015, 04:29 PM
For a reason I always thought that is was The Father from The Holy Trinity as in Assassin's Creed, Assassin's Creed 2 Templars where Cristians

They never was, the Templars are atheist. They used the Cristian organizations.

ERICATHERINE
08-24-2015, 04:48 PM
For a reason I always thought that is was The Father from The Holy Trinity as in Assassin's Creed, Assassin's Creed 2 Templars where Cristians

You forgot brotherhood. ;)

Senningiri_GR
08-25-2015, 08:41 AM
You forgot brotherhood. ;)

Yes I did ;););)

GunnerGalactico
08-25-2015, 11:03 AM
After reading the extract about Cain, I am convinced that he might be the Father of Understanding. Out of all the ones that were mentioned above, he sounded the most plausible. I also feel that the FoU doesn't necessarily have to be a deity or an extra-terrestial being, it can refer to the founding member of the Templar order.

dxsxhxcx
08-25-2015, 12:18 PM
After reading the extract about Cain, I am convinced that he might be the Father of Understanding. Out of all the ones that were mentioned above, he sounded the most plausible. I also feel that the FoU doesn't necessarily have to be a deity or an extra-terrestial being, it can refer to the founding member of the Templar order.

Cain seems like a plausible option, but IMO far too obvious, I can see he playing a role in all this but being influenced by someone else, like Consus.

GunnerGalactico
08-25-2015, 12:40 PM
Cain seems like a plausible option, but IMO far too obvious, I can see he playing a role in all this but being influenced by someone else, like Consus.

Consus- protector of grains and God of councils.

That works too. The reason why I'm kinda going with Cain is because of the supposed origin of the Templar cross symbol.

col_96
08-25-2015, 01:12 PM
Sorry It's late- But the Father of Understanding video I've been working on

http://i.imgur.com/fkBIjqn.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TH2_nhI83A
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TH2_nhI83A)

Abelzorus-Prime
08-25-2015, 07:15 PM
I'm pleased you included the Prometheus theory, and I certainly think it is another member of the First Civ as it wouldn't make sense to me if Juno, Minerva or Tinia are the Father of Understanding.

My original post for the Prometheus theory... https://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/3hm6yt/who_is_the_father_of_understanding_my_idea/

CrossedEagle
08-25-2015, 07:21 PM
Since I've just read "Prometheus Bound" I wouldn't be averse to TFOU being Prometheus, but after watching @ACfirstciv's TFOU video I'm leaning more towards Consus.

GunnerGalactico
08-25-2015, 08:16 PM
I stand corrected. There's more to the Consus theory than I thought. I didn't really know much about him until seeing the video. Now, this theory is a lot more plausible than the one about Cain.

Abelzorus-Prime
08-26-2015, 01:26 AM
I used to toy with the idea of Consus being the Father of Understanding, but soon disregarded the notion as Consus acted in favor of the Assassins or simply against the Templars, and I don't think the Templars would seek guidance from a being who opposes them.

dxsxhxcx
08-26-2015, 01:38 AM
I used to toy with the idea of Consus being the Father of Understanding, but soon disregarded the notion as Consus acted in favor of the Assassins or simply against the Templars, and I don't think the Templars would seek guidance from a being who opposes them.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Calculations

Let's not forget that Juno also "helped" Ratonhnhaké:ton at some point, who knows what Consus' "aid" might have put in motion...

X_xWolverinEx_X
08-26-2015, 09:38 AM
i am the father of understanding guys ..i know its a lot to take in

Abelzorus-Prime
08-26-2015, 03:41 PM
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Calculations

Let's not forget that Juno also "helped" Ratonhnhak�:ton at some point, who knows what Consus' "aid" might have put in motion...

We already had an indication that Juno hated humans, remember all the harsh words she said in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood, but in terms of Consus' alliegiance all signs are pointing to the Assassins rather than the Templars.

HDinHB
08-26-2015, 10:52 PM
i am the father of understanding guys ..i know its a lot to take in

http://media.giphy.com/media/b8kHKZq3YFfnq/giphy.gif

I don't think it's an entity, but a concept. Like necessity is the mother of invention. Wisdom is the father of understanding.

Shahkulu101
08-26-2015, 10:56 PM
http://media.giphy.com/media/b8kHKZq3YFfnq/giphy.gif

I don't think it's an entity, but a concept. Like necessity is the mother of invention. Wisdom is the father of understanding.

This is what I thought and hoped it would be, but Darby confirmed it IS someone.

HDinHB
08-26-2015, 11:29 PM
Man that gif is creepy.

This is what I thought and hoped it would be, but Darby confirmed it IS someone.
Did he? If you mean the tweet reply in the OP, it's hardly confirmation. the OT (original tweeter?) asked two questions: "What is the father of understanding?" and "Is he a first civ member?" Darby only replied that he knows the answer and isn't telling. He didn't say "I know who [or what] it is..." so that doesn't confirm anything.

Did he confirm it somewhere else?

If it is one of the entities in the poll, I'll be disappointed.

Sorrosyss
08-27-2015, 01:30 PM
i am the father of understanding guys ..i know its a lot to take in

Thread over. Mind blown. Your grace, it is an honor. *curtsey* ;)


Man that gif is creepy.

Did he? If you mean the tweet reply in the OP, it's hardly confirmation. the OT (original tweeter?) asked two questions: "What is the father of understanding?" and "Is he a first civ member?" Darby only replied that he knows the answer and isn't telling. He didn't say "I know who [or what] it is..." so that doesn't confirm anything.

Did he confirm it somewhere else?

If it is one of the entities in the poll, I'll be disappointed.

This is true, but there were further tweets along the same lines, and as you saw the teaser from the video that he urged us to find no less, stated Who, rather than What, is the Father of Understanding. If you want my honest assessment, I think whatever the Father was in the early games, be it metaphysical or person, has since been rewritten to suit the narrative development of an existing threat.

Going back to Consus, there are some interesting points I may have glossed over on. I mean yes, he has allied with the Assassins many times, as I stated in the OP, but if it serves a greater goal, as others have said like Juno did, it could make sense.

In Legacy for example, we see a couple of other points of interest.

1) Using the Shroud, he was able to enter the conciousness of Giovanni. How else would he have been able to keep communicating with him, and ultimately take control of him? This has some interesting ramifications for any whom come into contact with the Shroud in Syndicate.

2) "I am the Erudite god". Not so subtle reference to Erudito? Think about it, he ultimately reached a vault of data, and as with Juno, he presumably was able to access the Internet once it was created. Whilst Erudito does have genuine human hackers, if Consus is pulling the strings it would be a very interesting twist. We have seen Erudito since AC1 plaguing Abstergo with e-mails and attacks. If it were to unsettle Abstergo because they have perverted the true vision of the Templars (as the Instruments suggest they have), then in this vein it makes sense if Consus was the Father, trying to put things back on course. I admit it is a stretch, but as I said Erudito has been there since AC1. If you re-read those e-mails from a First Civ viewpoint, it may reveal some interesting foreshadowing.

RA503
08-28-2015, 12:00 AM
Darby said that the father is not baphomet,but this don't make sense, the father IS baphomet !!!,I think that Darby know that if he says that The Father is Baphomet people will think about that famous goat image,and will be hard to explain in a limited space as tweeter why that goat image is a hoax and why until now days people belive in that.

resuming, the father is baphomet only not that goat baphomet...

HDinHB
08-28-2015, 02:39 AM
This is true, but there were further tweets along the same lines, and as you saw the teaser from the video that he urged us to find no less, stated Who, rather than What, is the Father of Understanding.

Meh, I'm not convinced by a phrase translated from English (or French?) to Latin to barcode back to Latin to English again. Pronouns are the first casualty of online translation.


If you want my honest assessment, I think whatever the Father was in the early games, be it metaphysical or person, has since been rewritten to suit the narrative development of an existing threat.

Or forgotten entirely. Juno was supposed to be an existential threat, but she has faded into the grey with barely a whimper. (I think she finally got wiped out in the Ashley Madison hack.) TFOU will live longer if he's not an entity.


Darby said that the father is not baphomet,but this don't make sense, the father IS baphomet !!!,I think that Darby know that if he says that The Father is Baphomet people will think about that famous goat image,and will be hard to explain in a limited space as tweeter why that goat image is a hoax and why until now days people belive in that.

resuming, the father is baphomet only not that goat baphomet...

Depending on what origin you choose, you may be literally correct:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet#Alternative_etymologies
Among others: "Baphomet" may derive from the Arabic word أبو فهمة Abu fihama(t), meaning "The Father of Understanding"

Abelzorus-Prime
08-28-2015, 02:55 AM
Thread over. Mind blown. Your grace, it is an honor. *curtsey* ;)


Going back to Consus, there are some interesting points I may have glossed over on. I mean yes, he has allied with the Assassins many times, as I stated in the OP, but if it serves a greater goal, as others have said like Juno did, it could make sense.

In Legacy for example, we see a couple of other points of interest.

1) Using the Shroud, he was able to enter the conciousness of Giovanni. How else would he have been able to keep communicating with him, and ultimately take control of him? This has some interesting ramifications for any whom come into contact with the Shroud in Syndicate.

2) "I am the Erudite god". Not so subtle reference to Erudito? Think about it, he ultimately reached a vault of data, and as with Juno, he presumably was able to access the Internet once it was created. Whilst Erudito does have genuine human hackers, if Consus is pulling the strings it would be a very interesting twist. We have seen Erudito since AC1 plaguing Abstergo with e-mails and attacks. If it were to unsettle Abstergo because they have perverted the true vision of the Templars (as the Instruments suggest they have), then in this vein it makes sense if Consus was the Father, trying to put things back on course. I admit it is a stretch, but as I said Erudito has been there since AC1. If you re-read those e-mails from a First Civ viewpoint, it may reveal some interesting foreshadowing.

There is still do evidence to suggest that Consus is alined with the Templars. "I am the Erudite god" is a reference to the Erudito, and Erudito do not like the Templars and always try to sabotage their plans. They don't share the same ideology or the same methods, it would not make sense for Consus.

Sorrosyss
11-06-2015, 07:33 PM
Le bump. Any new thoughts on this age old speculation following Syndicate? Specifically Juno directly referring to herself as the Mother of Wisdom?

cawatrooper9
11-06-2015, 07:51 PM
Le bump. Any new thoughts on this age old speculation following Syndicate? Specifically Juno directly referring to herself as the Mother of Wisdom?

That's a good catch. I wouldn't be surprised if TFoU is a female entity, since "Father" is such a gendered word, and would make for an interesting twist.

I think this is a sort of almost Lovecraftian theme- the Templars pay respect for the Father of Understanding because they know of his (or her) power, but their support is misguided- she's not going to favor them when the time comes.

Also, observe the common Templar phrase: "The Father of Understanding Guides Us". Now, throughout all of the eras (for the most part), whose hand has seemed to guide the fate of history most in these games?
Juno has specifically reached out (as far as we know) to Desmond, Connor, the Black Flag Protagonist, and others, spanning even more games (it's heavily implied that she also influenced Ezio, and her will through sages heavily affected both Edward and Arno).

Pr0metheus 1962
11-06-2015, 09:09 PM
As I understand it, the "Father of Understanding" isn't meant to refer to any physical being. I think it's meant to refer to wisdom, from which all understanding necessarily comes. I doubt the Templars are meaning the phrase to refer to any deity or member of the First Civilization.

RA503
11-06-2015, 09:42 PM
https://twitter.com/DarbyMcDevitt/status/660611063315046400 I ask darby those days if is Consus may or may not is it.

cawatrooper9
11-06-2015, 09:46 PM
As I understand it, the "Father of Understanding" isn't meant to refer to any physical being. I think it's meant to refer to wisdom, from which all understanding necessarily comes. I doubt the Templars are meaning the phrase to refer to any deity or member of the First Civilization.

That's what I thought too until I saw that apparent tweet from Darby, saying that he knew "who" it was.

F3nix013
11-06-2015, 10:12 PM
I used to be a Freemason and can honestly tell you that all the "father" is, its just God. There literally is NO deeper meaning.

cawatrooper9
11-06-2015, 10:30 PM
I used to be a Freemason and can honestly tell you that all the "father" is, its just God. There literally is NO deeper meaning.

Right, and that's really cool (I'm totally jealous, I wanted to join once).

But I'm not sure that the two are interchangeable between Freemasons and Templars, at least not in AC lore.

Sorrosyss
12-12-2015, 03:39 PM
I used to be a Freemason and can honestly tell you that all the "father" is, its just God. There literally is NO deeper meaning.

Thats what they want you to think.

*dons tin foil hat*

Also, this popped up on Twitter. Should we now discount dear Juno? Hmmmmm.

http://i.imgur.com/XCF114q.png

SectionHades
01-13-2016, 10:04 PM
He is none of these things. Templars know that Humans were created by the Isu and it would be illogical for them to worship anything. The father of understanding is simply your ability to use logical thinking and reasoning when making decisions and to put emotions aside when doing so.

DrBAMF123
09-26-2018, 10:40 AM
In AC Origins Septimius says its Caesar.

But that's unbelievably stupid if the writers actually mean that Templars through history have been paying homage to Caesar, unless they're going for it as him reorganizing the order of ancients into something more resembling modern Templars.

Sorry to bump this ancient thread but I heard that when playing origins the first time and only found this thread because I thought it was rediculous to say Caesar is the friggin pater intellectus

ermacos
09-26-2018, 12:05 PM
Thats what they want you to think.

*dons tin foil hat*

Also, this popped up on Twitter. Should we now discount dear Juno? Hmmmmm.

http://i.imgur.com/XCF114q.png

It is some elements you have to study mythology and read ancient books to understand who is the father of understanding for the moon lovers.
You call Juno the wife of ZEYS (Zeus for you) and her real name is HRA. She has nothing to do with it.

Reading this tweets, it is clear the corruption of the Moon, so you have to search for moon deities. We also read "Iron Will" which reflects the generation of the IRON, which is the Atlantians, the newest generation that created by gods before the rebelling begins.

Iron will, Iron man, Iron lady... even real life is filled with it, also in politics. The moon lovers call as father Yahweh the moon god. or the demiurge, the one who invaded earth just before Atlantis get corrupted and sunk. Moon lovers today do praise a goddess, some call her as ZINA, but that reflects to SINA/or CHINA the race of the moon, or snake/dragon.

Satan is planet Saturn or Kronos or Seth in Egypt, or SAT in Babylon, or Sabaoth in Judaism. The deities from planet Saturn are called as satanistic, so this is Satan actually, the one who rebel and allied with the snake. Saturn also represents "time".

ADAM represents 2 things from ancient Hellenic texts. ADAM = ΑΔΑΜ in Hellenic so ---> (Α)νατολη , (Δ)υση , (Α)ρκτος , (Μ)εσημβρια and that translates into east - west - north - south. The 4 corners of earth. ADAM is planet earth for moon lovers. EVA is the moon which we call as LEVAN. if we combine the apple which represents corruption and the snake = Corruption in the 4 corners of earth till the fall of human race. It is a promise of destruction after their plans for ONE WORLD ORDER failed with atlantians... The snake gave a promise to destroy the world with corruption. The sibyls of Apollo gave this meaning.

The second meaning of ADAM/EVA is the creation of the artificial race of the moon that landed in Poseidonia (Atlantis) and they start corruption to take over the planet.

Forget about CAIn thats AWAY to modern...

I didnt cast any vote to the poll I believe the true answer is missing. But I did give you the answer between those lines. I am surprised that a game is using such a lore that actually is 100% real. How they allowed them to do that, with some tweaks maybe, hide some stuff or change some stuff. I can only give you the real thing not the video game version or tweaked stuff so my knowledge may conflict with the game version.

You could also call their goddess as KALI but not JUNO please don’t do that. In real life not in video game, KALI is used all over the place, CERN experiments, OPEN SESAME in Arabia experiments.. They have an obsession with KALI. (the moon goddess with many hands)

Zeus is represented with the right side gammadion (Nazis used this symbol for their thing but with a manipulated manner- its not the original) which represent the positive energy of the universe, Kali represents the left sided gammadion which is the negative energy of the universe.

If you search for their goddess this is the one KALI. I dont know how you spell KALI in English the Buddhism goddess with the many hands.

cawatrooper9
09-26-2018, 02:53 PM
In AC Origins Septimius says its Caesar.

But that's unbelievably stupid if the writers actually mean that Templars through history have been paying homage to Caesar, unless they're going for it as him reorganizing the order of ancients into something more resembling modern Templars.

Sorry to bump this ancient thread but I heard that when playing origins the first time and only found this thread because I thought it was rediculous to say Caesar is the friggin pater intellectus

It's a little unclear so far exactly what Septimius meant. One theory that I really like is that the Father of Understanding might have been a real person or entity at one point, but also became a title passed down along the Order's history.

Locopells
09-27-2018, 09:31 AM
Yeah, my take is that it's a passed down title that eventually become just a title, since there doesn't seem to be an actual FoU later on.