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Messervy
09-07-2004, 04:31 PM
This game is a perfection in making. (chapeau)
There is just one thing that bothers me. I might be mistaken but as far as I know the cargo containers were invented after WW II and yet I have seen them on the ships in demo and at screenhots.

Hope the guys can still remedy that!!!

Messervy
09-07-2004, 04:31 PM
This game is a perfection in making. (chapeau)
There is just one thing that bothers me. I might be mistaken but as far as I know the cargo containers were invented after WW II and yet I have seen them on the ships in demo and at screenhots.

Hope the guys can still remedy that!!!

U1409
09-07-2004, 04:40 PM
They sure can. I am sure they will get right at it after implementing the FPS-walking-around-the-boat feature, full interior and damage modelling, lifeboats, wintergarten corrections, and last but not least the fully dynamic campaign.

Shouldn't take them any time at all...

__________
"Einmal vor Unerbittlichen stehen, wo keine Mutter, sich nach uns umsieht,
wo nur die Wirklichkeit herrscht, Grausam und Groß"

Messervy
09-07-2004, 05:00 PM
Nice welcome!
Usually I do not feel stupid....THX I do now!

U1409
09-07-2004, 05:13 PM
Did not mean it personally, Messervy. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Sorry for the sarcasm, but I could not help it. Actually, it was more directed at certain other threads and remarks you will find around here. People seem to either underestimate the time and effort involved in the development process or overestimate the developers.

Welcome to the forum, and sorry for my attempt at humour http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

__________
"Einmal vor Unerbittlichen stehen, wo keine Mutter, sich nach uns umsieht,
wo nur die Wirklichkeit herrscht, Grausam und Groß"

Messervy
09-07-2004, 05:30 PM
No offense taken.....
I have just been browsing the past topics and YES it does make one wonder where it is all going to stop. I have been playing computer games since there were only dots to be chased around the screen. If I step aside and look from the other perspective....hey It is allmost a Hollodeck what we have now. LOL

Xanthippus
09-07-2004, 05:36 PM
Good point about the Cargo containers, no knowledge of when they were used, but worth raising the question for sure.

In terms of those making unreasonable demands, i agree, quite often it can get on your nerves when you see how much people are asking for. I am 100% with the designers in that from what it appears they have done (from a graphics point of view) is superb, if they left it there they could well me happy.

A community is there however to point out mistakes, drive forward even greater efforts and force the bar to be raised higher and higher. It is up to the designers to choose when to stop, but let it not be us that lets them off lightly!

ParaB
09-07-2004, 05:43 PM
The cargo containers are correct. If you look at photos of WW2 freighters like the US Liberty ships you will often see these containers on the deck.

http://www.cascobay.com/history/libship/libshpmp.jpg

Of course these are not the 'cargo containers' we see on modern freighters but these containers (in fact more like big crates) are absolutely OK for WW2 ships.

Messervy
09-07-2004, 05:48 PM
During WW ll there were only crates and pallettes. This caused harbours to become bottlenecks since they usually unloaded the cargo with derricks lifting the heavy nets containing cargo. I can`t remember exactly but a while ago at a Discovery channel there was preciselly explained when and by whom the containers were invented. My guess is not before 1950.

Messervy
09-07-2004, 05:56 PM
What appears to be a container was usually large crate containing fuselage of an aircraft for instance. And they were NOT painted in bright red or yellow!!!http://www.silent-hunteriii.com/ss/Merchant02.jpg

ParaB
09-07-2004, 06:06 PM
So, we agree that there were in fact 'container-like structures' on WW2 merchants? Fine. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But you don't like the colour? Well... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Messervy
09-07-2004, 06:11 PM
1. Yes we agree about container like structures
2. No, I don`t like the colour
3. I do not want to argue.

It`s just that they look so damn modernistic that I could`t help myself bringing it up.

ParaB
09-07-2004, 06:20 PM
I honestly admit that I don't have the slightest clue about the historical correct colours used on WW2-era container-like structures on seagoing vessels. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And honestly, I couldn't care less. I kinda like red though... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Teddy Bar
09-07-2004, 06:23 PM
I am sure thay would have been raw timber.

Cheers,

Teddy B¤r

Messervy
09-07-2004, 06:33 PM
I don`t like red and I stoped careing as well.
It sounds like a wintergarten issue the other day....sorry to bring it up http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

It`s 02.30 where I come from. Cheers!

"Gutte jagd" - I ment nacht

SailorSteve
09-08-2004, 01:18 AM
Thanks for bringing up the colors; I hadn't noticed them until now. You could well be right, I also don't know.

I mainly replied to say I like your name.....should I call you 'Sir Miles'?

______________________________

The poster said "Join The Navy, See The World". So I did, and I'm here to tell you, the world is flat and blue.

RedTerex
09-08-2004, 04:17 AM
Realism is THE watchword where SH3 is concerned.
This issue about containers, indeed brightly coloured ones that look like they have just come of a Maersk Articulated(circa1970's) lorry, do now look a little conspicuos.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/bit-fall-off.gif

Containers LOL, well thats one that has slipped the net.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/ohh-no.gif It never even crossed my mind to think about them, sounds like I'm not alone.

Historical accuracy has gone belly up if we discover that containers are a 1960's item as I think they are.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/in-a-box.gif

Some of these "storage fascilities" onboard our SH3 ships may be painted crates, but they do look a lot like 1960's stylee containers.

Even so, a good observation point by Messervy and its people like this that can spot an error that no-one else even dreamt of, So please do not **** him down guys and chill out those attitudes.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/applaus.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

Shan_Hackett
09-08-2004, 10:19 AM
I also agree on the "Containers", although one aspect is clear, at the onset of war,
the Admiralty became responsible for the control of Merchant shipping in late August 1939. This "Control" consisted of the authority to decide whether or not a ship was to proceed in convoy, and if not, the course and speed of it's passage to its intended destination. It did NOT extend to deciding the destination, nor the cargo to be carried.

Progressively, between its formation on 13 October 1939 and May 1941, the civilian Ministry of Shipping and its successor, the Ministry of War Transport, received authority to requisition British Merchant shipping for national use. Such authority was also extended to Allied and neutral shipping which became, by commercial agreement, chartered to the British Government.

The MOS/MOWT right of requisition carried with it the authority to decide the cargo to be carried and the voyages to be undertaken by Merchant ships, the actual management of the ships remaining with thier owners or agents.

Britain needed to import 55,000,000 tonnes of goods by sea in 1939, including all its oil, most of its raw materials and half its food. The Merchant fleet, at that time, included some 3,000 ocean-going and 1,000 larger coastal ships totalling 21,000,000 gross reister-tons. Some 2,000 vessels were at sea worldwide at any time.

But the Admiralty's main concern at the outset was with the apparently more immediate threat posed by the German surface-raiders, particularly the 3 purpose-built pocket-battleships (Deutschland, Scheer and Graf Spee) with their enormous endurance of 21,000 miles and thier superiority in firepower or speed over any British ships execpt the 3 battlecruisers (Hood, Repulse and Renown).

To bring the imports which Britain needed to live and to carry on the fight, there were 2,000 fewer ships under the Red Ensign of the British Merchant Navy than there had been in the First World War, but the average tonnage of each ship was more than double, about 5,250 tons compared with 2,300.

The decision was made to essentialy "Overload" merchant ships to over twice thier registered tonnage, in order to initialy bring in more goods, with fewer transits, to reduce the risk of attack.

At First there was some teething problems, the first being that merchant ships, were not accustomed to "Overloading" their ships, especialy for transiting the Atlantic, with the extra weight, the lack of bouyancy itself was dangerous enough to sink a ship in moderate swells.
The second was how to stowe the extra cargo, which had to be place "On-Deck",As all internal capacity was used.
The usual method was either lashed with ropes and cables, boxed in small to medium wooden crates, or layed out loosely between bulkheads.(usual method when carrying raw materials)

initialy the same methods of transportation to carry goods internaly was exercised to carry on-deck, except for loose cargo.
The lack of purpose built lashings, and stowage space on-deck led to enough losses at sea by breakages in fastenings, and "Slipping" into the ocean, led to the adoption of only larger crates being carried on-deck, with the internal cargo further broke down into smaller "Packages" to reduce space taken up by bulky crates.
This method became a "Standing Order" until such a time when newer, purpose built cargo vessels were made available, which were designed to carry cargo on-deck, aswell as internaly.

AnalysisMan
09-08-2004, 12:22 PM
So...they didn't use crates?

Good history lesson though. I never knew that there was a Ministry of Transport and all that stuff.

Messervy
09-09-2004, 12:40 PM
[QUOTE]
I mainly replied to say I like your name.....should I call you 'Sir Miles'?
QUOTE]

I don`t know the man`s name. When I was a child I read everything about the military history I could get my hands on. There I`ve got to know this guy and I liked him a lot. Sort of a low profile ingenious hero.
If he is the one from "Keren" than he is THE Messervy!

SailorSteve
09-09-2004, 01:02 PM
I'm sorry, I guess I was being a little to obscure on that one. I don't know about the gentleman whom you named yourself after. I assumed you were refering to Ian Fleming's original James Bond books; the man known as 'M' is later named Admiral Sir Miles Messervy.

Sorry for the confusion.

______________________________

The poster said "Join The Navy, See The World". So I did, and I'm here to tell you, the world is flat and blue.

Messervy
09-09-2004, 02:00 PM
.....great.....now I will have to read that as well.

No problem SailorSteve

TASKFORCE1x1
09-11-2004, 08:01 PM
What is inside those crates are.......
..
...
....
.....
......Lifeboats!!!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


(oops was supposed to be a suprize http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
09-12-2004, 05:04 AM
rofl http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

RedTerex
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/Signature.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/signature3.jpg

Messervy
09-12-2004, 06:01 AM
He, he http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif lifeboats with wintergarten?

[This message was edited by Messervy on Mon September 13 2004 at 06:05 AM.]

hauitsme
09-12-2004, 10:16 PM
Remember now, since the crew can be washedhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/bath.gif overboard, and when GOD FORBID you have to abandon ship, everyone gets to http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/drown.gif

Just something to remember!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/farewell.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

Messervy
10-06-2004, 01:52 AM
Well - I got it!
The containers were invented By Malcom McLean some 30 years ago.

bertgang
10-06-2004, 05:10 AM
Ok, not true containers, only crates looking as containers.

Mind to the colour, anyway: red seems an help for spotting...

Messervy
10-06-2004, 06:13 AM
OK It is not an Eagle. It is a Pigeon that looks like an Eagle......or is it an Eagle that looks like a Pigeon.

If they wanted to make a container they got it right but it is wrong all the way, if they wanted to make a crate but then came out with a container - than they ment right but got it wrong.


BTW how do I get the picture to be displayed

macker33
10-10-2004, 08:31 PM
Ok,i got this from a reliable source and was suprised be the answer.containers WERE around before WWII.

My uncle drives an artic and he has been shunting for at least 30yrs.His job is to get the containers that are lifted off boats by the big cranes,the big crane drops the container onto his trailer,he drives off to where the containers are to be left and a smaller crane takes the container and puts it down,this is repeated until the ship has dropped off its shipment.Anyway my dad knows a lot about containers and container ships and he said they were around before the war but he wasnt altogether positive.

Messervy
10-11-2004, 01:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Well - I got it!
The containers were invented By Malcom McLean some 30 years ago. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The above source was Discovery Channel - Big Cranes!!!

macker33
10-11-2004, 10:24 PM
Like i said,my dad wasnt entirely certain but me myself would be more inclined to believe me dad,he remembers a lot of stuff you wouldnt see on telly,i'll get him to ask the uncle when he sees him.

I wouldnt take what discovery or the history channels as gospel on all things because they can be wrong,not often.

Messervy
10-12-2004, 12:31 AM
Yes I know. Maybe in the show they merely pointed out the name of the guy who was responsible for standardisation!

macker33
10-12-2004, 01:04 AM
The documentry channels never do a typical type of operations documentry,

What i mean is they cover the big battles,the great weapons,the great leaders and the odd time they might do a unit history but they never make a typical day in the life of a ptboat,
or typical activities of german destroyers,whats a sentrys lot in life.There could be a lot to learn from this type of show.