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View Full Version : How to make guards in AC less stupid.



BananaBlighter
08-18-2015, 11:14 AM
In every Assassin's Creed (and many other stealth games) we've had a very serious problem. Guards will investigate after detecting you or finding something 'suspicious' (a dead body). However after 5 seconds they will forget that their mate they we're just chatting to is lying dead in front of them.

I believe that if guards never stopped investigating, then it would add a whole new aspect to stealth, super fast paced constant evasion. As the guard bumps in to other guards and spreads the word, however these guards, without having seen any actual evidence, may not be so active in finding the killer. These unconvinced guards will probably believe their friend is crazy and go along with it for some time, after which they will resume their post/patrol. However, if while searching for you they find any sort of evidence (a dead body) or detect you (when I say detect I mean when the icon above their head is fully red and they are looking at you), for any amount of time, they will forget their doubts and like their supposedly crazy friend, never stop searching for you.

The first guard to start investigating, has to be absolutely sure there's a killer about. Just detecting you for a short amount of time (three seconds) isn't good enough, in this case it is acceptable for them to say, "Ah it was probably nothing," or, "Must have been my imagination,". They will only start their endless hunt after detecting you for a certain amount of total time (they see you for two seconds and then later for one second) or finding concrete evidence (a dead body). If enough guards enter the phase where they never stop looking for you, and if they don't detect you for a certain amount of time afterwards, then they go warn the target (if it is an assassination mission) who starts escaping at this point. Now we get a chase like in AC1 and at this point you can forget about being detected.

One problem I have with Syndicate is that it looks ridiculously easy. I believe this would solve the problem. If you get into a fight and you escape instead of killing everyone, then you're pretty much screwed, with a large number of guards starting their hunt for you (however they would all go their separate paths so you can take them out one by one), inevitably leading to the target's attempted escape (unless you stealthily kill all your pursuers). This adds incentive to not get in to fights (Evie), or if you do, to not escape (Jacob). It also requires you to hide all your evidence and would justify the return of picking up bodies. Once the hunt commences the stealth becomes fast pace evasion, where I would probably accept the use of the rope launcher to rapidly move around, or even Evie's chameleon ability in case you can't find any hiding spots.

This is why I feel that this mechanic (which has probably been discussed before) would have a place in Syndicate more than in any other AC game. However, in the demos we saw nothing like this so it probably isn't already in the game and at this point would not have time to be implemented. It seems sensible, with the return of picking up bodies, the addition of the rope launcher and the chameleon ability which is great for indoor evasion. I feel that had this mechanic been present in Unity, the game would have been too hard, especially indoors. It's embarrassing how stupid guards are right now and Syndicate was the perfect time to change that.

EDIT: Sorry forgot to say this, but when a guard leaves their position or patrol after being convinced to search for you, in some ways it makes the game easier as it opens up the area that they were just guarding, i.e. you would now easily be able to get throughout the door they were just positioned at.

Sorrosyss
08-18-2015, 12:38 PM
I may be in the minority (that word again :p) here, but I found stealthing in Unity beyond painful. The speed at which you get detected is harsh compared to older games. I recall trying to stealth my way through the Dead Kings crypts, in full 5 star stealth gear, and got detected so easily that I just plain gave up on stealth and ended up fighting my way through. In short, I would welcome 'easier' guards as I prefer to stealth around - something I had no problem with in the older titles.

That being said, I see your point about realism. It is daft that they act like nothing happened. I'd support the one guard switching from their standard path, but not groups of them - as invariably the moment you pop out of stealth to dispatch one of them, you've put yourself in combat with them all again. I feel having just the one guard searching would allow you to still deal with it within the stealth mechanics, whilst still giving a bit of variety from the guards returning to their standard patrols.

steveeire
08-18-2015, 12:43 PM
In Unity the guards could see through walls.

D.I.D.
08-18-2015, 12:52 PM
I may be in the minority (that word again :p) here, but I found stealthing in Unity beyond painful. The speed at which you get detected is harsh compared to older games. I recall trying to stealth my way through the Dead Kings crypts, in full 5 star stealth gear, and got detected so easily that I just plain gave up on stealth and ended up fighting my way through. In short, I would welcome 'easier' guards as I prefer to stealth around - something I had no problem with in the older titles.

That being said, I see your point about realism. It is daft that they act like nothing happened. I'd support the one guard switching from their standard path, but not groups of them - as invariably the moment you pop out of stealth to dispatch one of them, you've put yourself in combat with them all again. I feel having just the one guard searching would allow you to still deal with it within the stealth mechanics, whilst still giving a bit of variety from the guards returning to their standard patrols.

I had the opposite experience in Dead Kings. Sometimes they saw me quickly, but on many occasions I was breezing through way too easily (if a room had many columns, especially). Overall, I had some really good stealth experiences in those catacombs.

It's a difficult balance. On one hand, we want realistic response to our actions, but we also want observable patterns that we can exploit. True real-world responses to dropping a dead body -- guards who scour every corner, constantly -- would probably mean we would always be found. I guess a way to make them believable but also allow them to return to a non-alert state would be to have a guard demand they stop panicking, remember their jobs, get back to their positions and so on ("This is what the assassin wants!", "We have our posts for a reason!", and so on). Rather than having them never calm down their behaviour, you could instead have their barks come only from a "nervous" pool ever after, while their actual movement was not necessarily any different. That might be enough to satisfy our credulity.

BananaBlighter
08-18-2015, 12:54 PM
I may be in the minority (that word again :p) here, but I found stealthing in Unity beyond painful. The speed at which you get detected is harsh compared to older games. I recall trying to stealth my way through the Dead Kings crypts, in full 5 star stealth gear, and got detected so easily that I just plain gave up on stealth and ended up fighting my way through. In short, I would welcome 'easier' guards as I prefer to stealth around - something I had no problem with in the older titles.

That being said, I see your point about realism. It is daft that they act like nothing happened. I'd support the one guard switching from their standard path, but not groups of them - as invariably the moment you pop out of stealth to dispatch one of them, you've put yourself in combat with them all again. I feel having just the one guard searching would allow you to still deal with it within the stealth mechanics, whilst still giving a bit of variety from the guards returning to their standard patrols.

Sorry that I didn't make it clear but when guards are searching for you they would separate so that you could deal with them separately. Not all guards will start searching for you but only the ones that a convinced searching guard 'bumps in to', and unless they find a reason to believe there is a killer, they will only search for a short period of time.

I agree that at times Unity's stealth was painful, but I mainly blame that on a buggy detection system. In syndicate not only have they given us the overpowered chameleon ability and rope launcher, but detection range has been reduced, so you shouldn't have a problem. I think they should give us difficulty options as I find that Syndicate's stealth looks TOO easy, and preferred what we had in Unity. When I mean difficulty options I don't just mean higher level guards, but adding things like guards endlessly hunting you, having the rope launcher create noise, having a cool down or timer (maximum time it stays activated while still) on the chameleon ability, or making voltaic bombs harmful to the player.

One of the main problems I have with Syndicate's stealth is with the rope launcher. Being able to easily pass over guards removes the classic problem of getting from one building to another without alerting the guards below. Unity introduced indoor stealth, and then Syndicate comes along and completely removes outdoor rooftop based stealth which is what I focused on in Unity.


I had the opposite experience in Dead Kings. Sometimes they saw me quickly, but on many occasions I was breezing through way too easily (if a room had many columns, especially). Overall, I had some really good stealth experiences in those catacombs.

It's a difficult balance. On one hand, we want realistic response to our actions, but we also want observable patterns that we can exploit. True real-world responses to dropping a dead body -- guards who scour every corner, constantly -- would probably mean we would always be found. I guess a way to make them believable but also allow them to return to a non-alert state would be to have a guard demand they stop panicking, remember their jobs, get back to their positions and so on ("This is what the assassin wants!", "We have our posts for a reason!", and so on). Rather than having them never calm down their behaviour, you could instead have their barks come only from a "nervous" pool ever after, while their actual movement was not necessarily any different. That might be enough to satisfy our credulity.

That last bit is a good idea. I think that depending on the guard type, certain guards would search more than others, get more easily convinced that there is a killer about, or even try to stop the search. Groups of guards would be harder to convince than a single guard, and would take longer to convince too.

andreycvetov
08-18-2015, 01:35 PM
What confuses me the most , is why they put so much guards in one area , making it impossible to stealth , when they know the A.I idiotic

Jessigirl2013
08-19-2015, 01:12 PM
Yeah Unity was harder IMO.
But Syndicates demo is just laughable.

In UBIs demo of Evie when he kills the first guard its CLEARLY SEEN!
What happen to "guards are suspicious of dead bodies"! Like WTF!:mad:

Hans684
08-19-2015, 04:29 PM
Yeah Unity was harder IMO.
But Syndicates demo is just laughable.

In UBIs demo of Evie when he kills the first guard its CLEARLY SEEN!
What happen to "guards are suspicious of dead bodies"! Like WTF!:mad:

They are hight at work.


In Unity the guards could see through walls.

Eagle Vision.