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View Full Version : 2 questions I would really like to get opinions on...



kalo456
06-11-2004, 12:00 AM
Hello everyone,

I wanted to ask about two things that are really bothering me right at this moment. First, why does the Spitfire overheat so quickly? Then you have the Mustang with a Merlin (albeit Packard built) that never overheats. I have found no way to keep the Spitfire from overheating at even moderate combat power settings. 2500 rpm's and only 90% will overheat a Spit quickly? Is this BS or realism, somebody please.....

Next question; I am loving the dessert maps, but again what is up with the overheating? I have read many books on the N. Africa and Med air war. They always mention the heat was a problem on taxi and takeoff, before you get good airflow through the radiators. Once you were airborne and up to speed, airflow was enough to keep the engines cool. I have never heard anything mentioned that pilots had to fly the planes with 80% power to keep cool. Again, is this realism or BS? I really want to know the truth here, because it doesn;t make much sense to me.

I appreciate any insight.
again, my questions:
1) Spitfire overheat
2) Dessert map overheating every aircraft

Thanks

Kalo

kalo456
06-11-2004, 12:00 AM
Hello everyone,

I wanted to ask about two things that are really bothering me right at this moment. First, why does the Spitfire overheat so quickly? Then you have the Mustang with a Merlin (albeit Packard built) that never overheats. I have found no way to keep the Spitfire from overheating at even moderate combat power settings. 2500 rpm's and only 90% will overheat a Spit quickly? Is this BS or realism, somebody please.....

Next question; I am loving the dessert maps, but again what is up with the overheating? I have read many books on the N. Africa and Med air war. They always mention the heat was a problem on taxi and takeoff, before you get good airflow through the radiators. Once you were airborne and up to speed, airflow was enough to keep the engines cool. I have never heard anything mentioned that pilots had to fly the planes with 80% power to keep cool. Again, is this realism or BS? I really want to know the truth here, because it doesn;t make much sense to me.

I appreciate any insight.
again, my questions:
1) Spitfire overheat
2) Dessert map overheating every aircraft

Thanks

Kalo

WUAF_Badsight
06-11-2004, 12:19 AM
do you drive you car at Full throttle on very hot days ?

does it get hot ?

i bet it does


we fly around in FB at Max power ..... the Maximum revs the planes allow


at high Alt the planes dont overheat as bad in the desert map ..... try flying higher

.
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WUAF_Badsight
06-11-2004, 12:21 AM
Spitfires wont overheat .... above 3000m

try it

climb gently to 5000m & then go to maximum power

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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Tooz_69GIAP
06-11-2004, 05:43 AM
By the way, you are not supposed to fly at max power all the time. You are supposed to cruise, and conserve power, and your engine for combat if you need that little extra bit of power.

Also, you have to think about efficiency. There are instances where going at 110% the whole time is just useless, and overall, you actual are going slower than you would if you were "cruising" with the engine. There is a point at which your engine is going too fast, and you are losing the energy it is producing, and there is no extra benefit.

These effects are different for each aircraft.

I'll give you an example of this which I discovered a while ago flying the P-40E:

I was flying along at 2,500m on cruise settings, at 90% power and 90% prop pitch, rad closed, mix 100%. I was doing around 410-420ish I think. My wingman in the mission asked me to slow up so he could catch, so I reduced throttle to 80%. Nothing happened, I stayed at the same speed. I reduced prop pitch to 70% kept throttle at the same. And I was in level flight the entire time. My airspeed increased to about 440-450!! This had me mightily confused I must tell you!! I reduced throttle to 70%, my airspeed finally started to fall, but only to 400ish.

You do not need to have 110% on your aircraft to get the best out of it. If you have ever watched a formula 1 race, and watched as a driver is frantically trying to catch someone, and his engine blows. He's basically ran at the higest the engine can go, and he did it for too long. The same happens with yer aircraft in FB. Be smart with yer engine.

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg
Za Rodinu!

kalo456
06-11-2004, 05:58 AM
Hey WUAF_Badsight, thankyou for being the first to reply.

In answer to your question about my car. I just experienced this in fact. It was 99 degrees here in NY yesterday. I got stuck in some traffic and I watched my car's temperature rise, especially because I had the AC on. As soon as I got on the highway, the temperature dropped immediately. Why? Airflow

I don't fly the planes anywhere near max power on dessert maps and they overheat, at say 1500 meters. Thats 4,500 feet off the ground where it can;t be near as hot as on the deck. I am talking about planes over heating at 75-80% power. Thats crazy.

Anyhow, I was looking for comments from pilots and or individuals who have some knowledge of this. Not comparisons to my car http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

One other thing I should clarify about my 2 questions; I was asking about the Spitfire in general on any map, not just the dessert maps. On the dessert map it is near unflyable (exaggeration of course).

Kalo

kalo456
06-11-2004, 06:16 AM
I find it funny how someone will assume I am an amateur pilot without even reading and answering the question..... hmmmm
I do appreciate anyone's time however.

Ok, I am fully aware of running cooling cycles on my engines. I am aware that it is not just manifold pressure that needs to be reduced in cruise/cooling but also RPM's into the 2000-2200 range.

My question is about the ambient air temperature overheating aircraft so quickly in a dessert environment after taxi/takeoff.

My question is about the Rolls Royce Merlin on the Spitfire overheating very quickly on all Mk's, while the Packard built Merlin on the P-51 will rarely overheat unless you run at full WEP for several minutes.

That's all. I am hoping(even though a longshot)
that perhaps a pilot with some experience flying in dessert conditions could comment on question 1. Question 2, well anybody that may have any factual input please let me know.

Thx

Kalo

kalo456
06-11-2004, 06:29 AM
Posted elsewhere by Hop2002:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have it under good authority that on the desert map, if you push the throttle above 80% you will overheat your engine pretty quick. 80% seems to be the max throttle you can give. CEM is gonna be real interesting, specially for them 2 speed guys (i.e. 110% and engine off ).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I've got the cooling report on a Spitfire LF IX tested at 25 lbs boost.

After 10 mins at cruise, followed by 5 mins at maximum power (110%) the coolant temperatures were well within tolerances, even under tropical conditions.

And that's with radiators closed.


ok, the above sounds consistent with things I have read.

Kalo

WWMaxGunz
06-11-2004, 08:13 AM
Try cutting the rpms down. It works and... it's real.
Or perhaps you have a historic report saying max revs
and full power without overheat? Engines heat up faster
from running fast, not because of fuel flow. Fuel flow
can make them run faster but it's the revs that makes
the higher friction and the revs that set the rate of
explosions in the cylinders.

It's not like your car, unless you have one hell of a
sports car for more reasons than power alone, even then
I doubt you can carry things very far.


Neal

DeerHunterUK
06-11-2004, 08:35 AM
Hi Kalo, I'm afraid you're up against some stiff opposition when it comes to the Spitfire and it's overheating\non-overheating problem. I posted about this very same thing last week and have since sent off the information that I have to the dev team (no reply to my email as yet). You can find the thread here( you'll need to scroll up to see the "evidence" itself); http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=987101354&r=498107354#498107354
I'm afraid some people will refuse to believe that there's bug\problem in FB with the Merlin engines, but we'll keep plugging away until something is sorted.

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

[This message was edited by DeerHunterUK on Fri June 11 2004 at 07:48 AM.]

kalo456
06-11-2004, 11:07 AM
Thx for the info on that thread DeerHunterUK.
That actually helped shed a little more light on this issue. I am in agreement with you that something is definitely wrong here. It's hard enough to keep the Merlins cool on any map and near impossible on the dessert map. Looking at the numbers on that manual, we should be able to maintain 2850rpm's & +12boost for an hour. I am not even looking for something to last that long. If I had a combat setting that would last 5 minutes without overheating I would be happy.

Anyhow, seems there is all the evidence I need to know the Spitfire has a bug. It's on paper. I hope that Oleg pays attention. The new Spits sure are sweet, but that overheat has to go.

Now everybody is saying that all planes overheating in a dessert environment is realistic. I just don;t believe it. Thats why I am looking for someone who has experience flying in high temperature climate conditions to post. Maybe right on the deck up to 300m I can see it being super hot, but once you get up to 1000M thats up there and it should be cooler. I am going to dig into my reference library and see what I can find on this. If they included the dessert heat as something that was supposed to make those maps more fun, I think they failed. Some planes suffer way more than others, and it just feels artificial to me. Thats my opinion of course, but with all the other factors going on in a full real server, fighting a constantly overheating engine is the last thing I want to do.

Thanx for the posts

9./JG54_Kalo

DeerHunterUK
06-11-2004, 01:49 PM
It's not just the Spitfire that's affected by the overheating problem, also the Hurricane's have exctly the same thing happening to them. But, the only Merlin engine aircraft that doesn't suffer from this problem is the P-51, although it doesn't have a true Merlin engine as such.

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

CV8_Dudeness
06-11-2004, 03:40 PM
hey Kalo you are kidding right ?

the Spit Mk9 WONT overheat

go up to 5K & go full power & Wep & 100% prop pitch

zero overheating

& you are trying to get it to overheat less ?

i mean come on ....... ALL planes overheat more on the Med map

but you just want the Spitfire to be better ?

kalo456
06-11-2004, 06:45 PM
Actually I was referring to the Spitfire down low. I have seen for myself that once you get up to high altitude it can run at high power settings. However, that was not my issue.

In actuality I rarely fly the Spit. I am usually in Axis aircraft, but I do love the Spit. It's got character and alot of history.

Anyhow. Lets hope it gets fixed, thats all. At altitude and on the deck

Kalo