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heywooood
04-08-2004, 06:50 PM
Trekkie! made ya look.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
seriously , Modders, show us yer Flattops!

Please - I must know now how pitifully inferior my CPU is - well before release of PF so I know just exactly how much to spend on a new can... So Luthier - if you please - may we see one ?...

I really hate to ask ... or just have Fennec taunt me again with that sig of his...I swear, between flak and large formations and big maps I'm screwed - please post a Carrier

"all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by"..

heywooood
04-08-2004, 06:50 PM
Trekkie! made ya look.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
seriously , Modders, show us yer Flattops!

Please - I must know now how pitifully inferior my CPU is - well before release of PF so I know just exactly how much to spend on a new can... So Luthier - if you please - may we see one ?...

I really hate to ask ... or just have Fennec taunt me again with that sig of his...I swear, between flak and large formations and big maps I'm screwed - please post a Carrier

"all I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by"..

SkyChimp
04-08-2004, 06:53 PM
The USS Lexington is the carrier I'd like to see:

http://www.voodoo.cz/ww2car/pics/new1/lexington.jpg

http://www.voodoo.cz/ww2car/

Regards,
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/wildsig.jpg

heywooood
04-08-2004, 06:58 PM
Yes!!
Now Where is that Tele-Taube?


The Lex - the Hornet - Enterprise - Midway -

or big Mo - the Mother of all Battlwaggons,
doesnt have to be a Carrier... i spose

LEXX_Luthor
04-08-2004, 07:36 PM
The real Lexx carried Flyable moths.

heywooood
04-08-2004, 07:59 PM
hahaha - plushtoy!

no kidding though - if my rig was a crap plane - it would be a "Bleriot"...

A spectacular crap plane or ... a craptacular rig.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

luthier1
04-08-2004, 08:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
The USS Lexington is the carrier I'd like to see<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wish granted

http://www.pacific-fighters.com/teaser/

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

heywooood
04-08-2004, 08:25 PM
Yeah - thats what I thought.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

it Does look good in the banner though..

I really just wanted a close-up of my first victim.. hahahahaha BANZAI!!!!BANZAI BANZAIBANZAI!!!!!!


hahahah!

BSS_CUDA
04-08-2004, 09:11 PM
how can you have a pacific fighter game with carriers and not have the most decorated ship during WW2 20 battle stars out of a possible 22

http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/020619.jpg

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Tactical Officer

That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun

BSS_CUDA
04-08-2004, 09:16 PM
this is what I invision happening to some Jap Carriers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/CV17a.jpg

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Tactical Officer

That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun

heywooood
04-08-2004, 10:08 PM
I hear ya BSS -


"you screw up just this much, and you'll be flying a cargo plane fulla rubber dog$hit outta Hongkong!!!!"

Stogie chompin'CAG : TOP GUN

Texas LongHorn
04-09-2004, 12:00 AM
heywooood, the Mighty Mo' wasn't really the mother of all battlewagons, that moniker belongs to the Yamato and Musashi of the IJN. Each displaced about 72,000 tons fully loaded and were 863' long with a 121' beam and drew 34'. By contrast, the Iowa class ships displaced around 57,450 tons loaded at came in at 888 feet long with a 108' beam and a 32.5' draft. The difference in tonnage makes the Mo' seem puny by comparison. Also note that the Musashi is estimated to have absorbed _twenty_ torpedo hits and _seventeen_ bombs before she sank in the naval action at Leyte Gulf. WOW. There are some fascinating stories about the two Yamato class ships, for instance the blast was so great from the 18.1 main guns that animals on deck desintegrated from the shock-wave during testing and mandated not allowing crew on deck during firing of the big boys. Another example of the sheer mass is the story of the launcing of the Musashi. While the Yamato was built in a drydock, the Musashi was built on a slipway. Even with heavy chains dragging to slow her down the wave caused by the hull hitting the water during launch flooded all the waterfront buildings in the harbor at Kure &lt;ggg.&gt; Mike
http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v149/msdavis/Mistel_MiniNuke11.jpg

Texas LongHorn
04-09-2004, 12:03 AM
Ooops, sorry about that. Instead of my Sig image I posted an image of the Mistel Mini-Nuke (as I like to call it) taking out a rail yard in fine fashion.
http://img49.photobucket.com/albums/v149/msdavis/My_Sig_Image2.jpg

Bearcat99
04-09-2004, 12:19 AM
Looks like it took you with it.......

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

MustangWZI
04-09-2004, 02:14 AM
Yamato and Musashi,
I call em the Super Battleships! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif
http://www.chuckhawks.com/yamato.jpg

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/MustangWZI-sig200.JPG
Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~Haiku

Gibbage1
04-09-2004, 02:40 AM
Not like they did any good http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They died running from the US fleet, and from aircraft. Not other battleships. It would have been fitting for an Iowa to meet the Yamato. But no. Little US aircraft pummeled her to death. Would have been a grand fight much like the Bizmark.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MustangWZI:
Yamato and Musashi,
I call em the Super Battleships! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif
http://www.chuckhawks.com/yamato.jpg

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/MustangWZI-sig200.JPG
Like the moon over
The day, my genious and brawn
Are lost on these fools
~Haiku<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My post's are my asumptions only, and in no way linked to fact. I am not an official 1C, Ubi, or Russian Red Rocket spokesman.

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

Gibbage1
04-09-2004, 02:43 AM
I would rather have the Saratoga with her later retrofit. 20 5" guns armed with VT shells. No wonder she survived the war. It took two nukes to sink her. Sad really. That we dont have any of these first carriers anymore. Enterprise was scraped, and Sara was nuked twice. I think we still have an Essix class in Texas that was in service till 1991!!! Talk about a long lived carrier. 1943 to 1991.

Gib

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
The USS Lexington is the carrier I'd like to see:

http://www.voodoo.cz/ww2car/pics/new1/lexington.jpg

http://www.voodoo.cz/ww2car/

_Regards,_
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/wildsig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My post's are my asumptions only, and in no way linked to fact. I am not an official 1C, Ubi, or Russian Red Rocket spokesman.

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

luthier1
04-09-2004, 02:50 AM
We've got a short hull Essex right here in NY, USS Intrepid CV-11.

http://www.intrepidmuseum.org/

http://www.il2center.com/PF.jpg

MustangWZI
04-09-2004, 02:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Not like they did any good http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They died running from the US fleet, and from aircraft. Not other battleships. It would have been fitting for an Iowa to meet the Yamato. But no. Little US aircraft pummeled her to death. Would have been a grand fight much like the Bizmark.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't blame em. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Gibbage1
04-09-2004, 05:19 AM
Lol. SR-71 on the deck of a 1943 carrier. Now I have seen it all. Hhahahaha.

Gib

My post's are my asumptions only, and in no way linked to fact. I am not an official 1C, Ubi, or Russian Red Rocket spokesman.

"Most P-39's were sent to the Russians - so I guess that was an American secret weapon against our Russian allies."

Stan Wood, P-38 pilot who also flew the P-39.

Capt._Tenneal
04-09-2004, 09:14 AM
I'd also like to see the IJN AKAGI in PF, what with her distinctive downward pointing funnel, she'll stand out as your ship or as your target. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://m2reviews.cnsi.net/reviews/misc/robertoakagibt.jpg

noshens
04-09-2004, 09:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Lol. SR-71 on the deck of a 1943 carrier. Now I have seen it all. Hhahahaha.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was in the USS Intrepid. All new planes were on the deck and WW2 a/c were inside. It was fun actually.

heywooood
04-09-2004, 10:52 AM
Yes - Musashi and Yamato were the biggest battleships, agreed..

I guess I should have qualified and said US Navy ship.. pardon the infraction.

I will drop an extra 500lb'er down the stack of each one in your honor http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Harry_M
04-09-2004, 11:32 AM
U.S.S. Hornet CV-12, Essex class is still alive and well....

http://www.uss-hornet.org/

Hans-Schultz
04-09-2004, 12:20 PM
i live near the USS Yorktown 2 CV-10 its really neat thry have an Avenger, Wildcat, Hellcat, Corsair, dauntless its really sweet. and the USS North Carolina BB-55 is about 2 hours away

heywooood
04-09-2004, 12:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hans-Schultz:
i live near the USS Yorktown 2 CV-10 its really neat thry have an Avenger, Wildcat, Hellcat, Corsair, dauntless its really sweet. and the USS North Carolina BB-55 is about 2 hours away<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you get a chance - post up some pictures next time you are there, please.

BSS_Vidar
04-09-2004, 01:50 PM
Yup, the 2 Yamato class BB's were the largest with 18" guns to boot.But that wouldn't have lasted if the war had lingered on. The keel for the first Super Battleship had been laid in late '44, but later scraped after the war was over. They were practically identical to the Iowa class in every way except for size, displacement, and guns. Just over 1,100 ft long and four 22" three barreled gun turrets. I believe they were to be called the Montana class Super Battlewagons.

Vidar

heywooood
04-09-2004, 02:55 PM
Vidar -

You have made some great posts here thanks..

this board seems to have lots of new blood.. a most welcome by-product of the PF sim,
I must say. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Hans-Schultz
04-09-2004, 03:29 PM
i might go tomorrow acually She is modified to a CVA config but inside they have restored many WW2 parts and components

here is a link http://www.state.sc.us/patpt/

Hans-Schultz
04-09-2004, 03:33 PM
check this out also this is about the USS Yorktown (1) CV-5

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/98/midway/

heywooood
04-09-2004, 03:49 PM
Thanks for the links H-S !

RxMan
04-09-2004, 03:52 PM
SR-71 on USS Intrepid
http://home.att.net/~jsgary/Sr71.jpg

heywooood
04-09-2004, 04:22 PM
So ... whos the hotshot pilot that trapped THAT?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

didnt know they had a tailhook.

Fennec_P
04-09-2004, 05:55 PM
Probably a very skilled crane operator http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/flakw.jpg

heywooood
04-09-2004, 08:21 PM
nice sig

BSS_CUDA
04-09-2004, 08:34 PM
this is what the Japanese saw on VJ day over Tokyo bay
http://img42.photobucket.com/albums/v129/CUDA97045/USbb63_pic_45_jpsur_flyover.jpg
I think they might be seeing even more of this in PF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

There are over 600 aircraft in this photo and it doesnt inc all the aircraft in the flyover

*****************************
BSS_CUDA
Co-Founder of my family
Black Sheep Tactical Officer

That was some of the best flying I've seen yet! right up to the part where you got killed.
you NEVER NEVER leave your wingman.

Jester : TopGun

LEXX_Luthor
04-09-2004, 08:41 PM
Newsreel framerate must have been really bad

heywooood
04-09-2004, 09:31 PM
good one Taube.

so was "FB:the Forgotten Board"..edgy. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Taylortony
04-10-2004, 02:17 PM
I apolgise to you all forthwith and i should be tied to a chair and beaten profusely, but it was just too tempting a Question in the header.....Ok, in response to Pictures of Enterprise http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif
though i dont see how it will help http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.solace.mh.se/~el302/startrek/pics/1701_E_Daten.jpg

will pull it off tomorrow so as not to clog the site up with off topic trivia

04-10-2004, 03:29 PM
I think you will find that the Japanese Navy Battle Ships and Cruisers did not spend the entire war in the Pacific, running away from US Carriers or other Allied airbourne forces and being attacked and destroyed as they tried to escape.
There are some very interesting encounters actualy.
Example, the Kongo Class Battle ship Kirishima came out to fight the American Naval forces at Quadacanal it ended up being a night engagement.

How about that Battle of the Phillipine sea!
Check out some links on the Net guys, you will find some pretty exciting stuff.

S!

Aztek_Eagle
04-10-2004, 04:50 PM
u got to understend that some ppl are not well informed, most of the japanese fleet sunk, stood and fought vs overwelming odds, but still dunno how some ppl keep saying "ho they were just runing away cowards", the american public was very proud off american troops fighting lossing battles, bravery of the allies in the pacific in the first years of the war, but it came to little when at the end when japanese shown off what a fanatical defence of home land is.

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/robertosgallery/CORSAIR8.JPG

heywooood
04-10-2004, 06:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:


will pull it off tomorrow so as not to clog the site up with off topic trivia<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whaddya mean "off topic?.."

Col.Thumper
04-10-2004, 07:10 PM
The USS Washington is the ONLY US WW2 Battleship to be in a Battleship duel. She sank a Japaneese Battleship Kirishima. I myself can't wait to see the North Carolina Class battleships in Action http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.VVS504.com/images/thumpsig.jpg VVS 504 Home (http://www.VVS504.com/index.htm)

heywooood
04-10-2004, 07:17 PM
Is there going to be that much emphasis on the surface ships in PF ? ..

I cant wait to see these boats - but i dont expect them to do too much besides sink...

..or wait for me to return to the flat ones and land...

I'm sure the guys will make 'em look purty and shoot of lots of AA - but in the end its either eye candy or target practice for these airplanes - or didn't I get a memo?

Ted04
04-10-2004, 07:21 PM
Washingtoin wasn't the only battleship to fight her kind in the pacific. South Dakota was present at the same battle (Nov 14th), and the old battleships fought Fuso and Yamashiro at Surigao straights.

Taylortony
04-10-2004, 07:59 PM
Funny i thought we were getting a flight sim?

with all these boats will we see a plane?

Fennec_P
04-10-2004, 08:18 PM
No. You drive the boat now.

04-10-2004, 09:01 PM
The Battle of Leyte Gulf is another interesting encounter guys, where Japanese Battle ships came out to fight.
It would have been frightning I think to be on the Bridge of an American Aircraft carrier, and spot Japanese Battleships and Cruisers appearing over the Horizon heading for you at full speed.
Watching your Destroyer and Cruiser escorts coming about and heading out at full speed to meet the enemy while laying out smoke to try and cover your escape.
Those American escort ships where very brave, their Heroic actions where described as the suicidal defense!

Going back to research that engagement more closely.

S!

Klatuu
04-12-2004, 05:13 PM
USS Enterprise in dry dock:
http://www.guaibaonline.hpg.ig.com.br/imagens/startrek/enterprise-a15.jpg

The Yamoto and Musashi were larger than the Iowa Class, but the Iowas were clearly superior BBs. Down range performance of the guns was very similar, even though the Iowa's were smaller caliber, and the fire control of the Iowa Class was much, much better. The only real advantage the Japanese Super Battleships had over the Iowa Class was in armor, and they would have needed every mm of it because the Iowa Class ships would have been pounding them while they were still thousands of yards out of range. The US Battleships were a full 6 knots faster, and had better damage control as well. The Yamoto and Musashi would have been forced to rely on luck to defeat one of the Iowa Class ships.

grist
04-12-2004, 05:31 PM
After shakedown, Massachusetts departed Casco Bay, Maine, 24 October 1942 and 4 days later made rendezvous with the Western Naval Task Force for the invasion of north Africa, serving as flagship for Adm. H. Kent Hewitt.

While steaming off Casablanca 8 November, she came under fire from French battleship Jean Bart's 13-inch guns. She returned fire at 0740 firing the first 16-inch shells fired by the U.S. against the European Axis Powers. Within a few minutes she silenced Jean Bart's main battery; then she turned her guns on French destroyers which had joined the attack, sinking two of them. She also shelled shore batteries and blew up an ammunition dump. After a cease-fire had been arranged with the French, she headed for the United States 12 November, and prepared for Pacific duty.

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/battleships/massachusetts/bb59-mass.html

Cpt.Confidence
04-13-2004, 01:33 PM
http://www.cv6.org/

sugaki
04-13-2004, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The only real advantage the Japanese Super Battleships had over the Iowa Class was in armor, and they would have needed every mm of it because the Iowa Class ships would have been pounding them while they were still thousands of yards out of range.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd have to disagree. The range of Yamato's 18" guns was 45,960 yards, while Iowa was 42,345 yards. The type 91 shells were made to travel underwater, but due to the overly-delayed detonation timer, wasn't really effective.

Iowa would still likely best Yamato in a one-on-one duel, due to fire control, better ballistic capabilities of the shells, 6 knots faster, and especially important if at night, radar. The diff in radar technology is what made the difference in the battle with the Washington and the Kirishima.

Hans-Schultz
04-13-2004, 03:44 PM
i agree the US 16in gun was smaller in diameter than the 18inch of Japanese design but overall i would think the Iowa would stand a better shot in a 1v1 duel.

WhiskeyBravo
04-13-2004, 04:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The Lex - the Hornet - Enterprise - Midway -
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought the Yorktown was at Midway - if so where was Lex - a victim of Coral Sea?

Must get my books out again.

WB.

Cpt.Confidence
04-13-2004, 09:33 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Lex - the Hornet - Enterprise - Midway -

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I thought the Yorktown was at Midway - if so where was Lex - a victim of Coral Sea?

Must get my books out again.

WB.

I think he meant the USS Midway (CV-41)
There was also two different World War II carriers named Lexington (CV-2 & CV-16), two named Yorktown (CV-5 & CV-10), two named Hornet (CV-8 & CV-12), and two named Wasp (CV-7 & CV-18).

Hans-Schultz
04-14-2004, 01:56 PM
lexington cv-2 was lost at coral sea yorktoen cv-5 was lost a midway

Maj_Death
04-14-2004, 10:38 PM
The Lexington is still floating. Though I think it is a different one (still from WW2, its got the kamakazi scar to prove it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif ). It is in Corpus Christi Texas.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maj_Death here, Stab.I/JG1Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VOW and may join other online wars in the future. Go to our forums at http://www.jg1-oesau.org/ for more details and to apply.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

sugaki
04-15-2004, 11:48 AM
Lady Lex and Yorktown were both built anew as an Essex class.

ARSNL
04-15-2004, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Harry_M:
U.S.S. Hornet CV-12, Essex class is still alive and well....

http://www.uss-hornet.org/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice but I hate seeing the old WW2 carriers with the canted deck. Are any of the old CV's still surviving in their original configuration? (straight deck)

http://www.digitalmelee.com/arsenal/Arse242.gif

Klatuu
04-15-2004, 07:37 PM
Rgr sugaki, the Yamoto's guns had a slightly longer ballistic range, but the ability to hit anything consistently would be much shorter due to the less effective fire control.

Add in the fact that once the Iowa finds the range she can use her superior speed to stay in that relatively "safe" zone, and the Yamoto is basically in a crap shoot. With 18" dice, sure, but it'll take luck to land them before she's dust.

On the underwater projectiles, even if they worked perfectly, they're still only going to take advantage of that feature at shorter ranges. The trajectory at longer ranges mean the shell are going to be hitting deck armor, not hull armor below the waterline.

Given the technological disparity, I think the Yamoto/Musashi would have struggled with a South Dakota, nevermind an Iowa.

Giganoni
04-15-2004, 08:02 PM
Hmm..I have to think that the Washington in the third battle of Savo Island just got very lucky. The radar wasn't all that great..and radar didn't tell you whats an island, whats a friendly, whats an enemy, plus the battle was at night. Early in the battle if I remember correctly the South Dakatoa was knocked out of the fight due to some accident on board. The Japanese battleship Kirishima was expecting to shell Henderson field, so was fitted with the wrong type of shells. The most important aspect was that the Japanese destroyer's missed the Washington with their Long Lances...had they hit..well, obviously the Washington and South Dakota could have been out of the war, and Henderson field could have gotten some vicious night shelling.