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malax83
08-11-2015, 05:28 PM
Hey Ubi

Actually, i m thinking about flanking between two creatures, if i m correct the two creatures will attack themselves turning in circle for bonus damage.

I don t think Heroes deserves such a terrible system, we are not talking about a lambda game, we are talking about heroes series which are a strategy game and always shine thanks to his legendary heroes 3. The flanking system looks like "kiddy", ain t no funny but idiot. If you do like repetitive and useless move, i could guarantee you will like H7 combat. I do not, that s why, as a lambda fan, i ask you to allow flanking between two versus one creature.

It s hard for me to explain it in the shakespear langage, i m just give you an advice as a friend, simply for the best of my favourite game.

keldaur
08-12-2015, 11:45 AM
Agreed. Right now it's not a enjoyable mechanich to use and feels completely wrong in game. Not to speak about how tedious it is just to constantly move your stacks behind the enemy stacks just to deal more damage while your opponent does the same.

neroon1987
08-12-2015, 05:38 PM
Age of wonders 3 has pretty good flanking system. It has hexes which are flatly superior for any tactical combat too, though.

Antalyan
08-13-2015, 04:35 PM
Flanking is not good for Heroes games. Fast creatures will get even more advantages and the combats will be every time the same, because creatures will always run in circles instead of using some unique abilities making each combat different.

malax83
08-14-2015, 12:07 PM
Age of wonders 3 has pretty good flanking system. It has hexes which are flatly superior for any tactical combat too, though.

There s not really a problem to apply flanking to squares, as you see, Donjons n' Dragons (1th edition) already done it :

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EG63jPn2w1A/U7srgADfbJI/AAAAAAAACbA/mz3pwqbp4uw/s1600/DnD+Flanking+ADnD.png

Every Role playing game (Warhammer, Pathfinder, AD&D...) and every board game (Warhammer 40k, Necromunda,...) has a common rule on flanking which can be resume by :


When making a melee attack,you get a +X flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by an ally on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner.Only a creature that threatens your foe can help you gain a flanking bonus.

Every Flanking system (in all the game i have checked) need at least two characters. Every creatures who is attacked, is now tied by this creature unless disengagement.
Then if the creature is attacked by the flank when he s alone, the creature always face the ennemy (even if he has no retaliation).

Even if UBI is trying to satisfy every kind of players (casual, Young people,...), i can t imagine what does this rule fit in the reality, maybe they like dancing "Tango" ? What does this rule add in term of positionning ? Is the depth of combat increasing ?



On the other hand there s a negative point, the combat is longer.. So it doesn t deserve multiplayer game.

neroon1987
08-14-2015, 01:06 PM
Hex rant was unrelated mostly, I was just sad that devs said 'we try to take some good from previous games' and didn't take of of best features of HoMM3 in.

On flanking issue: it's just not sensible if flanking is possible with one unit unless the attacker has some kind of teleport ability. In AoW3 devs made it so you attack enemy unit for the first time (if it's not defending), it turns to face the attacker, then the next attack on said unit on the same turn can be a flanking one. It's a kind of workaround for turn-based tactical combat to represent the situation that you focus your attacks to defeat one unit, which works very well. Can be done with squares too. If it works like this or in similar way already in Beta, my apologies for not believing in Ubisoft/Limbic :)

malax83
08-20-2015, 11:55 PM
Hex rant was unrelated mostly, I was just sad that devs said 'we try to take some good from previous games' and didn't take of of best features of HoMM3 in.

On flanking issue: it's just not sensible if flanking is possible with one unit unless the attacker has some kind of teleport ability. In AoW3 devs made it so you attack enemy unit for the first time (if it's not defending), it turns to face the attacker, then the next attack on said unit on the same turn can be a flanking one. It's a kind of workaround for turn-based tactical combat to represent the situation that you focus your attacks to defeat one unit, which works very well. Can be done with squares too. If it works like this or in similar way already in Beta, my apologies for not believing in Ubisoft/Limbic :)

Flanking system is a way different in AOW3, the Heroes 7 flanking system is too much repetitive.

The game is now oriented to be played solo by the developpers/Ubisoft but they think players can t see the forest for the trees. One bit of evidence comes from a Survey which say casual players will buy the game for the campaign (i don t believe in this Survey), but probably the real reason comes from the fact there s too many risk to develop a deep strategy game in multiplayer. To me, players of Heores 3 have to wait too long for discover a game which didn t evolve in multiplayer, Heroes series have just swapped creatures between factions to refresh the content.

Until now, i had great feeling about the game in particular of caravans and simultaneous turn. The flanking system confirms what i m afraid of, a solo game where figths are longer and boring, which is not an answer to the multiplayer expectations. Surprisingly, UBI is going to the opposite of Heroes Series and not using the multiplayer options. Heroes of might and magic 5 was the launching ramp of the multiplayers figth (duel mode) then Heroes 6 would have developed this side of the game (reducing ressources, tiers system, recruiting system), Heroes 7 is now developped with safe but only promise you a good experience in solo game.

That s all you have to wait from this game.

feidet1
08-21-2015, 04:05 PM
Flank system is the best of what happened to the game mechanics for the last three parts of the game. This will force players to think more and more moving. The system proved itself very good in Heroes Online.

malax83
08-21-2015, 07:08 PM
Flank system is the best of what happened to the game mechanics for the last three parts of the game. This will force players to think more and more moving. The system proved itself very good in Heroes Online.

How can you say that ? You even not have one argue ! Combat in Heroes online are redundant and repetitive, adding this feature (flanking) doesn t deserve the gameplay, you re just claiming loud what you re feeling. Heroes Online is far away from complexity of Heroes of might and magic, and there s no comparaison to do. Every players know that flanking system in Heroes 7 is unnecessary cause if you attack me by behind, i ll do the same... This is not how RPG - Board Games are working and you re quite naive to think it adds some deep.

You re comparing every games with flanking system with 15+ year old (Donjons and Dragons, Warhammer, Board games...) and a game with half a year.

For information, some system combat has already been approoved by the past, Ubisoft is thinking as "If they are all doing this, i ll do the contrary", to make them unique. Unique and useless system..

I bet Heroes Online is only played by the youngest part of the community and they are incredibly versatile, it s the customers target.

My arguments :

1) Combat are repetitive (always move before attacking)

2) If someone is attacking me, i turn to face to attacker. It s a matter of good sense

3) Flanking position could be reach by most of the creatures since it only depends of his speed (no opportunities attacks)

4) Not an esthetics combat...

feidet1
08-21-2015, 08:05 PM
I bet Heroes Online is only played by the youngest part of the community and they are incredibly versatile, it s the customers target.
.
I am 25 ;)

All your arguments are subjective

The player's task is not to run around behind the enemy, to strike the flank and competently cover her, and so moved. It is much more complicated than just run forward as it was before. That is my opinion.
Perhaps this step can be compared in importance and usefulness of the only divided into large and small creatures starting with Heroes 5

feidet1
08-21-2015, 08:11 PM
And moreover it definitely will not be removed in 7 characters, anyway. Mechanics many creatures now be based on the presence of the wings.

RobvD84
08-21-2015, 08:19 PM
Uhm i am sorry but a lot of ppl already predicted that it would be dancing around getting the right angle to flank. And from everything i saw and did myself this seem to be true. And yes i tried Heroes only too, even played the beta. But there were some mechanics in Heroes online that made it less fun and flanking was 1 of them.

Antalyan
08-23-2015, 02:13 PM
I have to agree with malax83. In my opinion, fast creatues are more useful and powerful even without flanking system.

malax83
08-23-2015, 02:42 PM
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5829/20628135729_da93c960f3.jpg

In the case of a 2x2 creature, the flank system is becoming a little bit complex... there is more chance to get full flanked (REAR) if you re attacking in diagonal, cause you re potentially exposed to 5 squares.