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View Full Version : Final blow for nvidias FX series



XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 06:16 PM
Time to sell your nvidia cards while someone still wants to buy them if you intend to play dx 9 games.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=0e45a3af5f59403dbed8c3202ba07b7a&threadid=665137

And if you don´t think there is any reason or interest on this. Just look at the number of pages this thread started and when it was started.

I just want to make sure noone makes a misstake and buy a nvidia card these days http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 06:16 PM
Time to sell your nvidia cards while someone still wants to buy them if you intend to play dx 9 games.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=0e45a3af5f59403dbed8c3202ba07b7a&threadid=665137

And if you don´t think there is any reason or interest on this. Just look at the number of pages this thread started and when it was started.

I just want to make sure noone makes a misstake and buy a nvidia card these days http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 07:06 PM
Interesting read. I still like my 5900 ultra. I wonder what RBJ will say about this.




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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 07:13 PM
Interesting. I am still running a 4200 series. I was thinking about getting a new card for Half-Life 2. Right now my choice is ATI.

There is still a bit of time before the game comes out. Let's see if NVidia gets their DX9 problems figured out with new drivers.

I will admit though, if NVidia cheats the framerates at the sacrafice of image quality I will go running to ATI./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Buzz_25th
09-11-2003, 07:14 PM
5900 works fine for FB, NR2003, GPL, and hopefully Lock-On. I'm not that interested in FPS games.

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Hunter82
09-11-2003, 07:15 PM
can't fix with drivers what the GPU can't fully support /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Message Edited on 09/11/0302:15PM by Hunter82

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 07:18 PM
I wouldn't be too quick to judge NVidia... especially when those tests look like they've been sponsored by Valve. Wait till some non-biased 3rd party company/group decides to benchmark them.

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 07:23 PM
Judging by Buzz's black death track fps, NV still works better on IL2FB ... and the 51.xx series of drivers some of the reviewers have, seems to help the PS 2.0 test were NV is lacking.
Before you start thinking I am NV biased, I have (and am very happy with) a 9800pro /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Its not good for the consumers to have one dominant company, or else they get to charge what they like for their products, get too cocky ... and get lethargic about keeping consumers happy ... oh wait isn't that what happened to NV http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

And I ain't an fAnTIic either .. I simply buy what appears to be the best for me at the time I have the cash.




Message Edited on 09/11/0307:24PM by bartflaster1

Hunter82
09-11-2003, 07:30 PM
You might want to check around..... I think the idea for Nvidia was DX9 support for games won't be around for a long time so we'll be ok with OGL and DX8.1...only problem is DX shaders open up alot of options for developers

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 07:38 PM
hey *******.First of all FX cards are way overclockable compared to Radeon and there wont be a game with DX 9 compatability for at least 2 more years.Even Lomac will be DX 8.Do your research b4 u talk trash about a company you know nothing about.

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 07:43 PM
Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 are going to use DX9. They are due out at the end of this year and early next year./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 07:50 PM
"hey *******."

l6lst_Elite , I wouldn't be too quick at calling names. (Personally, I've never met anyone with a clever *** anyway http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

If you read the commentary from Gabe Newell the nV cards are effectively forced to run in a DX8 mode to get anywhere near the frame rates of the ATi cards. In doing so they will suffer visually (notably water effects provided by shaders). Just because a game will run under DX8 it dosen't mean that you will get the best visuals.

"there wont be a game with DX 9 compatability for at least 2 more years."

Ppffft. Half-Life 2 is the first of lots of releases on the horizon which will require DX9. Valve will be licensing the source engine extensively. E.g. Vampire Redemption The Masquarade 2 (Think I got the exact name mixed up there). You can also bet that ut2k4 & all derived games will require DX9 too.

nVidia will bounce back from this and I hope they do. I certainally don't want a choice of one manufacturer when I come to buy my next card. More competition can only benfit us.

Hunter82
09-11-2003, 07:53 PM
ahhh to be young,wise, and taken for a ride....


I own 2 Nvidia cards currently and 3 of their motherboards..... care to explain your background?

My *** is rather dumb....which is why I choose not to use it for other than it was intended...you however it seems have taught yours to type /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


l6lst_Elite wrote:
- hey *******.First of all FX cards are way
- overclockable compared to Radeon and there wont be a
- game with DX 9 compatability for at least 2 more
- years.Even Lomac will be DX 8.Do your research b4 u
- talk trash about a company you know nothing about.
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 07:56 PM
Hunter82 wrote:
- ahhh to be young,wise, and taken for a ride....
-
-
- I own 2 Nvidia cards currently and 3 of their
- motherboards..... care to explain your background?
-
- My *** is rather dumb....which is why I choose not
- to use it for other than it was intended...you
- however it seems have taught yours to type


ROFLMAO!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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Buzz_25th
09-11-2003, 07:58 PM
Can't you feel the love?

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 08:01 PM
- My *** is rather dumb....which is why I choose not
- to use it for other than it was intended...you
- however it seems have taught yours to type


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LOL!

Liege-Killer

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 08:03 PM
Hunter82 wrote:
- ahhh to be young,wise, and taken for a ride....
-
-
- I own 2 Nvidia cards currently and 3 of their
- motherboards..... care to explain your background?
-
- My *** is rather dumb....which is why I choose not
- to use it for other than it was intended...you
- however it seems have taught yours to type /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


tha funniest post i ever read /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
good job hunter

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But I Have a Light
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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 08:13 PM
Well for those with short memories,does noone remember the ati cheater drivers when the 8500 came out?The drivers sent out for reviews defaulted back to lower texture counts to up frame rate.Well needless to say they got caught and the 8500 never lived up to the promises of "the fastest card out".Doesnt make nvidia right but it aint like ati's sh*t dont stink either.

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 08:23 PM
Hunter82 wrote:
- You might want to check around..... I think the idea
- for Nvidia was DX9 support for games won't be around
- for a long time so we'll be ok with OGL and
- DX8.1...only problem is DX shaders open up alot of
- options for developers



Hunter, coming from a Matrox owner *cough* /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif , do you think I should be chasing Matrox down to find out about their DX9 plans, or would you say I shouldn't worry too much, even if the card turns out not to have proper compliance, as Nvidia seems to be looking like in this case?

Thx



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Hunter82
09-11-2003, 08:32 PM
If you plan on running DX 9 games you may want to ask them their plans Dex....as you can see they had/have to jump through hoops to get Nvidia cards working properly to benchmark only.

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 08:33 PM
Yep I tested one of the new 5900 ultra , and I took it out and put my 9800 pro back in..

The colors and fps where not good compared to ATI.

And I ran alot of games on it and found that you don't get what you pay for with Nvidia..

Also here in Springfield Mo.. the Bestbuy store here has the 5900 on sale for alot less that the ATI,s .
I asked about this and was told that they where clearing the shelvs of the cards because so many have been brought back .

I know why , I was one of them...

It just does not compare with the 9800 cards at all.. IMO

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 08:45 PM
BiscuitMonster wrote:
- (Personally, I've never met anyone with a clever *** anyway /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )

Jeri Ryan, the chick who played 7 of 9, comes to mind.

It certainly looked clever anyway.

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 08:46 PM
Great thread...I happen to love my ***...! I don't think I could get it to type though...maybe with an assistive device.

Happy hunting and check six!

Tony Ascaso, RN

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 08:50 PM
SplinterCell requires dx9.0


At least when you install it - it says you have to install dx9.0 then proceeds to install.

I may be wrong

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 08:55 PM
kickuassa wrote:
- Well for those with short memories,does noone
- remember the ati cheater drivers when the 8500 came
- out?The drivers sent out for reviews defaulted back
- to lower texture counts to up frame rate.Well
- needless to say they got caught and the 8500 never
- lived up to the promises of "the fastest card
- out".Doesnt make nvidia right but it aint like ati's
- sh*t dont stink either.
-

And for those with shorter memories remember when #DMark busted nVidia for releasing drivers that "cheated" on their benchmark and gave out the impression their card was faster than it really was? What about the 5600 fiasco? Took to the 5900 to get what was promised in the 5600...

I was a nVidia fan and hated ATI until my 9700 and Catalyst 3.0 drivers. 2 of my home machines run a GeForce 3 and a GeForce 4 and my 9700 runs circles around them. Upgrading Detonator drivers is an exercise in driver brain surgery since they still haven't figured out how to cleanly install on top of themselves while my ATI is easy to upgrade and hasn't given me any trouble...

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 09:03 PM
tascaso wrote:
- Great thread...I happen to love my ***...! I

Don't forget that for those of us from the UK it's technically an "arse".

Regards,

RocketDog.

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 09:05 PM
This is NVIDIA's Official statement: "The Optimiziations for Half-Life 2 shaders are in the 50 series of drivers which we made available to reviewers on Monday [Sept. 8, 2003]. Any Half-Life 2 comparison based on the 45 series driver are invalid. NVIDIA 50 series of drivers will be available well before the release of Half-Life 2

<center>

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Buzz_25th
09-11-2003, 09:05 PM
Cess-Harpoon

What drivers did you try with the 5900? The newer drivers have a new color setting menu, and makes a huge difference. I always thought the 9800 colors were washed out looking, as if you had contrast turned way down. I get nice vibrant colors with the 5900 now.

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 09:11 PM
The little guys are gonna pull ahead in 2004.

ATI seems to already kicking Nvidia's butt.

AMD64 will be a good deal faster than any Intel in game performance.AMD64 be around 3ghz come summer, Intel will probably still be stuck at around 4ghz at 32bit.

AMD is gonna kick some butt until Intel puts out a 64bit desktop cpu.

Hooray for the little guys.

Buzz_25th
09-11-2003, 09:13 PM
Why are you cheering? Are you a little guy?

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Hunter82
09-11-2003, 09:20 PM
Can't pass one of these up huh Earl?''


Buzz_25th wrote:
- Why are you cheering? Are you a little guy?
-
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Buzz_25th
09-11-2003, 09:36 PM
It's hard. I try, but i'm weak.

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 09:38 PM
Splinter cell is a dx 8 games. It´s just dx 9 for some soundcards.

Zayets
09-11-2003, 09:40 PM
Tired of this fecken stuff with what card is the best.I can tell you one thing , I was about to buy a Radeon but then I've thought what I will do with my linux box where my Ti4600 runs flawlessly , yes , because of good drivers. ATI didn't care that much although I've seen good suport for Linux users but FAR from what nVidia offers. Anyway , I can't purchase a graphic card just for gaming , and to be honest there's only one game I play. And this does not justify the price. Maybe DX9 is not supported , that's OK , I don't have any DX9 games ... yet and I hate FPS , well , I've used to play Duke for a while but then I had a top notch 2MB S3 Virge card. Was really good /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Buy the one you like , or buy the one you can afford. Many cards are good. Matrox is one of them although developers seemed to forget about her. Stop this crap with mine's bigger than yours , is childish! Not like I have a small one /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 09:42 PM
This is NVIDIA's Official statement: "The Optimiziations for Half-Life 2 shaders are in the 50 series of drivers which we made available to reviewers on Monday [Sept. 8, 2003]. Any Half-Life 2 comparison based on the 45 series driver are invalid. NVIDIA 50 series of drivers will be available well before the release of Half-Life 2

Hurrrraaaay! More game specific optimizations. It can have it´s purpose in this case to make the games playable though. And how can they say the benchmarks is invalid LOL ???

And Buzz why do you got a new user?

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 09:43 PM
Zayets wrote:
"...Not like I have a small one."


A little insecure Zayets?

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Zayets
09-11-2003, 09:51 PM
Thunderbolt56 wrote:

- A little insecure Zayets?

Bolt,
Come a bit closer if you wanna see for yourself...

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 09:52 PM
Edited for sanitys sake

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Message Edited on 09/12/0303:38AM by cozmo_d

Buzz_25th
09-11-2003, 09:53 PM
oeqvist

To put my squad in my name, and to get rid of my post count. I kept saying it didn't matter, but nobody believed me. Now you have too.

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 09:55 PM
Buzz Ya Must have been around the Clock....... lol
You New User You.



http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hcsl/sig.jpg

Buzz_25th
09-11-2003, 10:01 PM
At least I won't have noobs telling me to get a life now../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 10:05 PM
Get A life....!!

Sorry couldnt Resist



"Im So ***** even The Crack Of Dawn Looks Good"

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Buzz_25th
09-11-2003, 10:14 PM
Noob.

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 10:15 PM
There was a French guy, Le Petomain I think, who could fart all sorts of tunes. He made a living as part of a vaudavile show, just a thought....................

Hunter82
09-11-2003, 10:17 PM
see Buzz there is hope.

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Buzz_25th
09-11-2003, 10:18 PM
I'm working on it, but can't get B flat fart down right.

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Hunter82
09-11-2003, 10:29 PM
You need to work on modes first Buzz..... a nice Spanish flavored Dorian would be nice /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Zayets
09-11-2003, 10:29 PM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- I'm working on it, but can't get B flat fart down
- right.


Squeeze it a little more Buzz. Is how I had my first B flat farting. I admit , is hard , but nobody was born smart.

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:10 PM
Next week I am going to give FX 5200 a try. It´s half the price of others here. I just play FB (so no problem with this DX9, whatever it is) and have a Voodoo 5 now, I was thinking in post my findings here but, well, I do prefer to keep my arse away...



"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:13 PM
JorBR wrote:
- Next week I am going to give FX 5200 a try. It´s
- half the price of others here. I just play FB (so no
- problem with this DX9, whatever it is) and have a
- Voodoo 5 now, I was thinking in post my findings
- here but, well, I do prefer to keep my arse away...
-
-
-
-
- "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but
- the pig enjoys it!"


Wasnt' the 5200 the card that NVidia pulled a while back because of problems?

I am not sure but you might want to look into it before you purchase.

Buzz_25th
09-11-2003, 11:15 PM
What does that have to do with B flat?

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XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:16 PM
Zayets wrote:
. Anyway , I can't
- purchase a graphic card just for gaming , and to be
- honest there's only one game I play. And this does
- not justify the price. Maybe DX9 is not supported ,
- that's OK , I don't have any DX9 games ... yet and I
- hate FPS , well , I've used to play Duke for a while
- but then I had a top notch 2MB S3 Virge card.-
- Zayets out


Try Ghost Recon.

It just might change your mind about FPS's./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:21 PM
Critt3r wrote:
-- Wasnt' the 5200 the card that NVidia pulled a while
- back because of problems?
-
- I am not sure but you might want to look into it
- before you purchase.

Never heard about it. Thx for the advice, I´ll test it for one week and the decide if I´ll purchase or not /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

Do you know if there is better cards for the same price?


"Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:28 PM
buzz,since the new cat3.7's 4xAA cuts out all jaggies and I mean "all" in GPL ,the FAA worked for a day but seems to have gone again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif but I have a feeling this will be nailed next time,the readme mentions something to do with WXP desktop..,sometimes when I go straight to GPL from a cold boot I get those 2D related patterns..green bars etc so I wonder if it's to do with 16bit and/or dos games??between the latest drivers and the latest patch(apart from the tourqouise water /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif )things are really improved in FB IMO.



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"yeah whatever"

Zayets
09-11-2003, 11:35 PM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- What does that have to do with B flat?
-

Nothing , that's true , but it has something to do with a fart , well , many farts if you want. Some nVidia are farts as some ATI are farts. Simple.Buy what you like.


Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 11:35 PM
JorBR wrote:
-
- Critt3r wrote:
--- Wasnt' the 5200 the card that NVidia pulled a while
-- back because of problems?
--
-- I am not sure but you might want to look into it
-- before you purchase.
-
- Never heard about it. Thx for the advice, I´ll test
- it for one week and the decide if I´ll purchase or
- not /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .
-
- Do you know if there is better cards for the same
- price?
-
-
-
- "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but
- the pig enjoys it!"

Not to get into the whole ATI vs NVidia thing.

I do not know how much the 5200 goes for but the ATI 9600 Pro 128 mb is going for about $125 on www.pricewatch.com (http://www.pricewatch.com)

Buzz_25th
09-11-2003, 11:47 PM
crunchieone

I get those corruted menus in GPL when I use 3D. The good thing about the 5900 card is I can use OGL. I never could do that with the 9800. I never could get rid of the stutters in replays either. I'm running GPL at 1600 res and 8x fsaa. It looks pretty sweet.

To be honest though. I've stopped playing GPL. Have you tried the Trans Am mod for NR2003? I love it, and the physics are miles ahead of GPL. I thought the TA cars would be slower than the 67F1 cars, but not even close. I was doing 1.26 laps at Silverstone with the F1 cars, and i'm doing 1.20 laps with the TA cars. Fun stuff.

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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:04 AM
Hunter82 wrote:
- ahhh to be young,wise, and taken for a ride....
- My *** is rather dumb....which is why I choose not
- to use it for other than it was intended...you
- however it seems have taught yours to type


Hunter you made my day....LOL.....hey young and wise...??? Isnt that an oxymoron...../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:08 AM
Critt3r wrote: "I do not know how much the 5200 goes for but the ATI 9600 Pro 128 mb is going for about $125 on www.pricewatch.com." (http://www.pricewatch.com.)

And the 9800 128MB (non-SE) are falling towards $200.00. About $225-$235.00 now. For me, that card seems to be carrying the most bang for the buck. I get a 9800 PRO card with lower clock speeds (Pro: 380/680 - Non-Pro: 325/580) and the chance to overclock it to near or better, PRO speeds./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:27 AM
Aren't the two mentioned FPS games going to be OpenGL as is FB???

I would never Direct 3D when I can have the option of using OpenGL cause Direct 3D looks like washed-out poop. I know Nvidia has good OpenGL support and with the 50 series drivers there will be better shader support. Not just for specific games it is to do with the way the chip runs, like a CPU it needs to be told what to do and when. Nothing wrong with that and if it gives flexibility then good for them designing it that way than using hard wired instructions. Both ATI and Nvidia make good cards and the raod ahead will be interesting for all who enjoy eye candy.

Now bring on Half Life 2 (-: but it will not detract too much from my FB flying.

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:36 AM
I always knew you were a quake player at heart, oeqvist. I don't own any of those games and don't plan too.

Me, I buy the best card from Nvidia under $200 that has been on the market and proven.

Stuff like this happens to ATI cards every day, but it's not worth posting because it is expected from ATI.

When Nvidia makes 1 little slip, to ATI fanatics it's front page news.

As the industry leader in video cards and gaming, I'm sure Nvidia wil fix whatever they need to fix.

Nice reach, Oeqvist. You bought an ATI card, and now you're going to have to live with it. Stop with the desperate attempts to bring everybody down with you.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

Hunter82
09-12-2003, 12:43 AM
Always a fun read when this subject comes up /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ATI writes to Nvidia suit's children

What now?


By Mike Magee: Tuesday 25 June 2002, 10:08

Dear ATI Fan,
We don't blame you for being unhappy with your X-Box gaming experience. But the good news is that your friends at ATI are about to put an end to your suffering--enclosed is a brand new Nintendo Gamecube, featuring award-winning ATI graphics.

We've also enclosed a complete assortment of ATI giveaways and branded merchandise for you to enjoy, including hats, shirts, sweatshirts, vests, bags, flashlights, pens--and even flashlight pens.

And because we know you're already planning on wearing this around the house, when your dad's co-workers come over for dinner, to Nvidia company picnics, etc., we've included a special bonus - one of the hottest new games for Gamecube - Spiderman.

We're sure you'll like Spiderman, because he's a red-costumed good-guy superhero who battles against his evil green nemesis, the Green Goblin, and ultimately defeats him with superior speed and a unique feature set.

Once again, thank you for choosing ATI.

Cheers!!

Chris Hook
John Swinimer
PR Managers, ATI Technologies Inc.

See Also
ATI delivers Gamecube for Nvidia executive




=======================================
Ubisoft IL2/Lock On Moderator
ATI Catalyst Driver Beta Tester
Hunter82 wrote:"I did not have technical relations with that question"
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=======================================

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:49 AM
@buzz ,been waiting for that TA mod thanks for the heads up...again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



<img src=http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW/FW190-D9-29_small.jpg>
"yeah whatever"

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:57 AM
oeqvist wrote:
- This is NVIDIA's Official statement: "The
- Optimiziations for Half-Life 2 shaders are in the 50
- series of drivers which we made available to
- reviewers on Monday [Sept. 8, 2003]. Any Half-Life 2
- comparison based on the 45 series driver are
- invalid. NVIDIA 50 series of drivers will be
- available well before the release of Half-Life 2
-
- Hurrrraaaay! More game specific optimizations. It
- can have it´s purpose in this case to make the games
- playable though. And how can they say the benchmarks
- is invalid LOL ???
-
- And Buzz why do you got a new user?
-
-

NVidia get desperate and hire the Iraqi information minister for PR lately? Sounds like it.

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 01:35 AM
No nvidia for me (my new 9800PRO is more than enough).

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzz_25th
09-12-2003, 02:09 AM
Very predictable Rogo.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:21 AM
I'd say very educated.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:32 AM
i can see DET FX 50 series drivers will be 50MB or more

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:36 AM
-
- Do you know if there is better cards for the same
- price?
-
-
-
- "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but
- the pig enjoys it!"


yes i know, its voodoo 3000.
i can sell it to you for the price of FX 5200 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:39 AM
Actually Voodoo Cards were bang on at the time and way better performers than the TNT cards.

See you in the fence.....

Asus P4B533 i845E
P4 2.4
Asus GF4 Ti 4200 128MB (45.23)
1 GIG DDR RAM (PC 2100)
SB Audigy
MSFF2
XP Home

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:42 AM
No video game would release a game that didn't work on an Nvidia card.

More people have Nvidia cards than any other, and Nvidia is (undisputibly) the hardware that games are most compatable with.

Calling this bit of info from a game that has yet to be released and will only be played by quake kiddies the "nail in the coffin" or "final blow" or whatever, is a desperate attempt to justify the lousy purchase of an overpriced video card from a company (ATI) who is always playing catchup to games that have been out for months.

Nice try but no cigar. Now go see if any of your games have come out with new ATI bug fixes in their patches lately (because they need them)

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:48 AM
and most people who own NVIDIA cards are the MX series

The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 03:57 AM
Dude Dont Buy a 5200 Card Buy a 5600 At Least
The 5200 is not that great a performer
more compared to a 440MX


http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hcsl/sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 04:00 AM
"In catching up on all the news buzzing around with the HalfLife 2 benches I ran across the following statement that to me was almost more significant than just the performance data shown. In the Tech Report article on page one with a photo of the presentation slide to go with it you'll read the following (bold added by me):

As you can tell from looking at the list in the slide above, Newell was concerned particularly with some of the techniques NVIDIA has used in recent driver releases, although he didn't exempt other graphics hardware makers from his complaints. He said they had seen cases where fog was completely removed from a level in one of Valve's games, by the graphics driver software, in order to improve performance. I asked him to clarify which game, and he said it was Half-Life 2. Apparently, this activity has gone on while the game is still in development. He also mentioned that he's seen drivers detect screen capture attempts and output higher quality data than what's actually shown in-game."

Just what I want to see in a gpu maker-is it ever going to end?

Rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 04:04 AM
And for Buzz here is a thread from a fella that argued with me forever about how golden his 5800 and 5900U was:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17823



Doom 3 uses a custom code path for the Gfx because it's such a lousy performer (lower IQ built into the code), the ARB2 path that the R3xx runs is both higher quality and faster.

HL2 runs like crap on the Gfx.

DX9 pixel shader speed is much much slower on the FX.

And ati is coming out with more dev supported games.

Also-there have been quite a few det fixes over the last 3 months in order to fix major problems with graphical cheats and bugs on FX cards-much more than ati.

And now the validity of the speed gains with the det50s are being called into question because of the above quote of mine.

I think if you are debating between ati and nvidia you better take a good long look at what you expect from nvidia these days-and what ati is offering.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 09/11/03 08:24PM by Rogodin

Message Edited on 09/11/0308:24PM by Rogodin

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 04:14 AM
A technical quote regarding the Valve situation and NV3x shader ops in general-

"I don't have time to read this entire thread, but will respond to those who are complaining about Vlave being the problem.

First, Valve is not the problem. You do not understand how code in DX9 works if you say that.

Here is the quick and dirty. In the game code, at init time, you ask what level of shaders (pixel and vertex) you (the card) support? The card comes back and says PS2.0 and VS2.0, then you go, "Cool", we can use DX9 shaders. At this point in the code, you have no idea what video card is really out there, unless you specifically test BEFORE starting DX9 up.

It's not Vlave's fault that the NV3x family of parts perform very badly using the shaders thay calim to support.

For Valve to fix this problem, they would have to disable all shaders. Well, the user community has wanted dynamic code in and have been bittching for years, "why can't game devs support the high end cards?"
Now we are doing it and you are bittching. Folks, the NV3x cards suck at DX9 shaders. That is the simple truth. Deal with it. It's not Valve's problem and I, for one, am glad they are taking the stance they are. Why?

Well, it might just make the farkin video card companies take notice that we, the devs, are not going to go quietly into the night anymore and take heat from gamers about features that are not being used. Maybe, just maybe, it might make the video card companies stand up and take notice, that if you put a piece of crap out in the market, we will expose it."



There's nothing wrong with DX8 shaders on NV3x. It's DX9 that makes the NV3x architecture choke and hemorrhage.


With that being said, it's sad to see that some people needed these HL2 benchmarks to finally believe the truth. We have been telling you guys since 3dmark03, Doom3 ARB2 path, Shadermark, Rightmark3d, Dawn, Uttar's modified Dawn, various synthetics, and Tomb Raider all along that NV3x had problems with PS2.0. The whole time it's been the same party line, that the results are aberrant and that we should wait for more tests. I guess some people need a baptism by fire.

rogo


<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 09/11/0308:18PM by Rogodin

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 04:16 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- No video game would release a game that didn't work
- on an Nvidia card.
-
- More people have Nvidia cards than any other, and
- Nvidia is (undisputibly) the hardware that games are
- most compatable with.
-
- Calling this bit of info from a game that has yet to
- be released and will only be played by quake kiddies
- the "nail in the coffin" or "final blow" or
- whatever, is a desperate attempt to justify the
- lousy purchase of an overpriced video card from a
- company (ATI) who is always playing catchup to games
- that have been out for months.
-
- Nice try but no cigar. Now go see if any of your
- games have come out with new ATI bug fixes in their
- patches lately (because they need them)
-

What exactly are you smoking RBJ. Last I checked an over priced $400 NVidia card just got its *** handed to its self by a mainstream $150 ATI card.

I supose you believe a graphic card company should deviate from DX9 coding and one stay with it.

All I'm looking for is a standard across the board and not one company optimizing itself with one game and one with the other.

I'll say what I have said before:

Valve(HL2)and ATI are in bed with DX9,and NVidia should be as well.
What is it you dum *** NVidiots don't understand?.

As for playing catch up,ATI looks as if they climbed right out of the cellar and toped NVidia making them look like a worried bunch of driver hackers.

True ATI had some problems in the past and took a lot of flak for it,but they look like they are sitting pretty right now.

Man look what NV came out with to try and take back the crown from ATI,an over clocked video card with a hoover on it.

I use the TI4600 and am no fanboy of either. But you have too give a little credit where credit is due and stop being some lip service *****.

I like both companies to be at the top fighting it out with some good honest compitition and discontinue this conning crap NVidia has been up to lately. I know ATI got its hands cought in the cockie jar awhile back,but NVidia gets caught and they slam everyone.

I'll give you credit RBJ,your annoyingly consistant.

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 04:21 AM
Anand a non-biased fella has this to say about NV3x performance:

"You'll see my own numbers tomorrow night at midnight, but we've been given the go ahead to reveal a bit of information about Half-Life 2. I'll keep it brief and to the point and will explain it in greater detail tomorrow night:

- Valve is piissed at all of the benchmarking "optimizations" they've seen in the hardware community;
- Half-Life 2 has a special NV3x codepath that was necessary to make NVIDIA's architecture perform reasonably under the game;
- Valve recommends running geforce fx 5200 and 5600 cards in dx8 mode in order to get playable frame rates.
- even with the special NV3x codepath, ATI is the clear performance leader under Half-Life 2 with the Radeon 9800 Pro hitting around 60 fps at 10x7. The 5900 ultra is noticeably slower with the special codepath and is horrendously slower under the default dx9 codepath;
- the Radeon 9600 Pro performs very well - it is a good competitor of the 5900 ultra;
- ATI didn't need these special optimizations to perform well and Valve insists that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.

There you have it folks, there's much more coming tomorrow."


Rogo



<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif




<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzz_25th
09-12-2003, 04:31 AM
I'm tired of these threads. Is this IL2 related?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 04:35 AM
RBJ, I think you strongly underestimate the market share that HL and HL engine based games currently have.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 04:38 AM
"You can't handle the truth."

BTW why are you using Buzz's sig-did he give you permission?


rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 09/11/0308:39PM by Rogodin

Buzz_25th
09-12-2003, 04:43 AM
Truth has nothing to do with it. the 5900 runs my games just fine. When HL2 comes out, and I feel like playing it. I'll get a card that works if the 5900 doesn't. FPS games are not my favorite, so I probably won't.

The point is this has been talked about way too much already, and has nothing to do with FB. Give it a freaking rest. Here's a thought. Go fly.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

Hunter82
09-12-2003, 04:45 AM
If you haven't noticed us FS users are a small percentage of the gaming market and the "quake kiddies" are the majority..... If you don't think Nvidia panders to them you are wrong.

I'm starting to think FX stands for Fix ten times /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

As time progresses you'll see more and more ATI games supported as many of the Hardware Manufacturers have also dropped Nvidia for ATI.... I see more Nvidia beta drivers a week than any other manufacturer.....ever wonder why?

Nvidia will come out with their 50 series and it will give them improvements but at what cost? It now takes almost double the AA and Aniso to equal a Radeons and Nvidias AA blurs the picture more than smooths it. Yet the Radeons STILL perform better at equal resolutions with AA and Aniso.

More and more companies seem to be distancing themselves from Nvidia...you wouldn't do that to a world class graphics supplier...would you??



=======================================
Ubisoft IL2/Lock On Moderator
ATI Catalyst Driver Beta Tester
Hunter82 wrote:"I did not have technical relations with that question"
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com/) </center>
=======================================

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 04:45 AM
I can't-family emergency and stuck 400 miles away from the gaming rig.

So you are BuzzU?

I can tell by the consistent sandheading /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 09/11/0308:46PM by Rogodin

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 04:50 AM
Plus ATI is selling awesome Remote wonders and the TVtuner cards that can be found on their AIW for $80-and their DVD playback is superior-just perfect for me since I now have an AIW 9800 for $290 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

My computer is also my HomeTHeatre (using a 32"plasmaTV and a dedicated hi/fi multiamp 5.1 surround system).

You don't have to read these posts buzz if it makes you feel bad about your card purchase.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Buzz_25th
09-12-2003, 04:51 AM
Earl says: Your sig is way to freaking big.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 04:58 AM
Yep

but it's not over limit.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 05:01 AM
Earl is a tattletale.

Buzz_25th
09-12-2003, 05:14 AM
Not over the limit? 400x200. I don't really care, but at least I know mine is over. Your as wrong about the 5900 as you are about your sig../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 05:52 AM
Bad earl.

bad

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/080903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:00 AM
NVIDIA's Response:

Over the last 24 hours, there has been quite a bit of controversy over comments made by Gabe Newell of Valve at ATIs Shader Day.

During the entire development of Half Life 2, NVIDIA has had close technical contact with Valve regarding the game. However, Valve has not made us aware of the issues Gabe discussed.

We're confused as to why Valve chose to use Release. 45 (Rel. 45) - because up to two weeks prior to the Shader Day we had been working closely with Valve to ensure that Release 50 (Rel. 50) provides the best experience possible on NVIDIA hardware.

Regarding the Half Life2 performance numbers that were published on the web, we believe these performance numbers are invalid because they do not use our Rel. 50 drivers. Engineering efforts on our Rel. 45 drivers stopped months ago in anticipation of Rel. 50. NVIDIA's optimizations for Half Life 2 and other new games are included in our Rel.50 drivers - which reviewers currently have a beta version of today. Rel. 50 is the best driver we've ever built - it includes significant optimizations for the highly-programmable GeForce FX architecture and includes feature and performance benefits for over 100 million NVIDIA GPU customers.

Pending detailed information from Valve, we are only aware one bug with Rel. 50 and the version of Half Life 2 that we currently have - this is the fog issue that Gabe refered to in his presentation. It is not a cheat or an over optimization. Our current drop of Half Life 2 is more than 2 weeks old. NVIDIA's Rel. 50 driver will be public before the game is available. Since we know that obtaining the best pixel shader performance from the GeForce FX GPUs currently requires some specialized work, our developer technology team works very closely with game developers. Part of this is understanding that in many cases promoting PS 1.4 (DirectX 8) to PS 2.0 (DirectX 9) provides no image quality benefit. Sometimes this involves converting 32-bit floating point precision shader operations into 16-bit floating point precision shaders in order to obtain the performance benefit of this mode with no image quality degradation. Our goal is to provide our consumers the best experience possible, and that means games must both look and run great.

The optimal code path for ATI and NVIDIA GPUs is different - so trying to test them with the same code path will always disadvantage one or the other. The default settings for each game have been chosen by both the developers and NVIDIA in order to produce the best results for our consumers.

In addition to the developer efforts, our driver team has developed a next-generation automatic shader optimizer that vastly improves GeForce FX pixel shader performance across the board. The fruits of these efforts will be seen in our Rel.50 driver release. Many other improvements have also been included in Rel.50, and these were all created either in response to, or in anticipation of the first wave of shipping DirectX 9 titles, such as Half Life 2.

We are committed to working with Gabe to fully understand his concerns and with Valve to ensure that 100+ million NVIDIA consumers get the best possible experience with Half Life 2 on NVIDIA hardware.

Derek Perez
Director of Public Relations
NVIDIA Corp.



**i think nvidia got the shaft on this deal, i mean if the 9800 PRO was like 10 to 15 fps a little faster ok, i still will always buy nvidia, i love my 5900. but in the tests ive seen the 9600 beats the 5900, dunno bout that.

<center>

http://members.cox.net/jakevas/thepic.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:06 AM
Buzz!!! Stop posting! Your post counts is going through the roof http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And please ellaborate on that newbie thingie. I think it´s nice to have many posts. That means you got a life and not only play FB. You are reading and writing FB too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:19 AM
Anand is displaying their full review here:

And Nvidia did not get the shaft-Valves team spent 5x longer making a custom code path for Nvidia than it did the code for ATI.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1863&p=4

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/120903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:22 AM
Hunter82 wrote:
- If you haven't noticed us FS users are a small
- percentage of the gaming market and the "quake
- kiddies" are the majority..... If you don't think
- Nvidia panders to them you are wrong.
-
- I'm starting to think FX stands for Fix ten times
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- As time progresses you'll see more and more ATI
- games supported as many of the Hardware
- Manufacturers have also dropped Nvidia for ATI.... I
- see more Nvidia beta drivers a week than any other
- manufacturer.....ever wonder why?
-
- Nvidia will come out with their 50 series and it
- will give them improvements but at what cost? It now
- takes almost double the AA and Aniso to equal a
- Radeons and Nvidias AA blurs the picture more than
- smooths it. Yet the Radeons STILL perform better at
- equal resolutions with AA and Aniso.
-
- More and more companies seem to be distancing
- themselves from Nvidia...you wouldn't do that to a
- world class graphics supplier...would you??
-


Very well said and articulated. Me I am a quake kiddie or game cannibal if you like. Gaming in every damn genre god invented because I love it.

But sure I don´t know any flight sims that are going to use the latest technology so sure you MAY be fine with a fx card... But if you aren´t solely playing IL 2 FB or LOMAC who wouldn´t want to hear about this stuff if they are going to upgrade their video card?

Man think of anyone getting these FX these days and notice that they either runs big games like HL 2 and DOOM 3 at either half performance or half image quality at twice the cost!. Or any game utilizing the PS 2.0 shaders.

The source and DOOM 3 engine will probably be the most used game engines to power future games as the Unreal and Quake 3 engines are today.

How fun is it to by a 450$ video card that is obsolete in 2 months at most?

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:25 AM
these ATI/NV threads are a bit like a "chevy fan" vs "ford fan" debate at a street rod meet aren't they http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)





<center> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQDLAtUWiWZ3BKw19!aryp7v3C1h1DuNwpHOOuqhlraGSyMAY KiPEOZAA1OBgsLu*Sa0UQ2my0PiFyvNkJ5K7Clsoy7yNtEvOXY nHDuPNiotpZACY2oJxw/aircraftround.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:28 AM
Yep, but the playing field is much narrower and the guidelines are ramrod straight.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/120903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:50 AM
I just found out something hilarious.

Here is a quote from nVidias official response.

We're confused as to why Valve chose to use Release.
- 45 (Rel. 45) - because up to two weeks prior to the
- Shader Day we had been working closely with Valve to
- ensure that Release 50 (Rel. 50) provides the best
- experience possible on NVIDIA hardware

And now check out this link. Look to the left http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-2k_45.23

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 07:14 AM
Did you see Valve's comment on why they didn't use the Det 50's?

From the AnandTech artical:
NVIDIA does have a new driver release on the horizon, the Detonator 50 series of drivers, however Valve instructed us not to use these drivers as they do not render fog in Half-Life 2.

Interesting, no?

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 07:19 AM
It´s Valves way of protesting of nVidias altering with the graphics of the game. I would be pretty pi$$ed too if I develop a game and then comes someone else and totally ruins it for me.

It´s like when you play soccer or whatever and you got an empty goal to score. And then your selfish teammate takes the ball and then actually miss too...

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 07:20 AM
HarryVoyager wrote:
- Did you see Valve's comment on why they didn't use
- the Det 50's?
-
- From the AnandTech artical:
- NVIDIA does have a new driver release on the
- horizon, the Detonator 50 series of drivers, however
- Valve instructed us not to use these drivers as they
- do not render fog in Half-Life 2.


Well ..


Previously you had to hack half life mods like counterstrike so you could cheat and see through smoke grenades and so forth.


Sounds like the new nvidia drivers give you that "feature" for free http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)))




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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 07:25 AM
Another interesting thing the AnandTech pointed out is that at the higher settings, the Radeon cards really start to clump together. We are shifting into a stage where memory bandwidth isn't the limiting factor anymore, it's just the raw processing power of the GPU.

If Valve can get Half-Life 2 out before Doom 3 hits, they can really steal the march on ID. It's cool to see things heating up again. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Harry Voyager

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JerseyD
09-12-2003, 07:25 AM
The way I see it Nvidia GeForce is like Coke Classic, ATI are like Pepsi and Nvidia FX series is like "New Coke"

Btw who's this Buzz_25 noob? don't recognize him /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 07:39 AM
I feel sorry for users of ATI who have to look into the future for a glint of hope that maybe, someday, they will have a card that runs games better than Nvidia.

Until then, if that day ever comes, just remember you can still come clean and sell your Radeon on Ebay and buy an Nvidia card (if you are a gamer, like me)

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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 07:42 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I feel sorry for users of ATI who have to look into
- the future for a glint of hope that maybe, someday,
- they will have a card that runs games better than
- Nvidia.
-
- Until then, if that day ever comes, just remember
- you can still come clean and sell your Radeon on
- Ebay and buy an Nvidia card (if you are a gamer,
- like me)

*sigh* We get by.....some how..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 07:56 AM
I feel an extreme desire to pull RBJ's head out of another part of his body anatomy...

Spets

<center> -A Proud Member of Sparky's Post Wh0res.- </center> <center> <center><a href="java_script:alert['Oink')"> http://spets.hostmb.com/blitz_anim.gif (java_script:alert['Oink!'))</center><center> http://home-1.concepts.nl/~wbn0066/images/emoticons/grenade.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 08:01 AM
spets wrote:
- I feel an extreme desire to pull RBJ's head out of
- another part of his body anatomy...


lol dont mind him he is actually quite usefull, as the forum idiot, all you have to do is the opposite of what he says, and your in good hands.

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 11:14 AM
Well I got my Gainward Fx5900 a couple of weeks ago and am very pis*ed off.

Should have waited a while longer.Thought I was buying a card for the future! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

F19_Choocky

http://www.f19vs.tk/

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 11:31 AM
Choocky wrote:
- Well I got my Gainward Fx5900 a couple of weeks ago
- and am very pis*ed off.
-
- Should have waited a while longer.Thought I was
- buying a card for the future!


If you want a card for the future, then buy it in the future. Never spend over $200 for a video card. Period.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
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<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 11:49 AM
"If you want a card for the future, then buy it in the future"


Excellent advice.



Cpt-Madcowz
Comsa (http://www.comsa.co.uk)



"When the hunter comes, the tiger runs with the deer."

Zayets
09-12-2003, 12:08 PM
And I am RBJ's fan!

Zayets out

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XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:25 PM
I've got a FX5200, it was good when I first got it - Now, it's not worth spitting on/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Hot Space




An Antelope is not just for Christmas - It's for putting in Sandwich's as well!!!

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 12:37 PM
I'm currently using the Ti4600...looks like I will change to an ATI card when HL2 is out.

anyways, competition is what drives this industry..h00ray!
And Nay to Intel and nVidia domination! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://home.online.no/~gunn-al/sirviper.jpg

Viking Power!
http://kickme.to/viperviking

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 01:24 PM
Didn't know you were such a cheap-skate RBJ.

Still playing in 800*600 res are we?

F19_Choocky

http://www.f19vs.tk/

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 01:45 PM
CrackFerret wrote:

- AMD64 will be a good deal faster than any Intel in
- game performance.AMD64 be around 3ghz come summer,
- Intel will probably still be stuck at around 4ghz at
- 32bit.

True ...... for a little while .. lol

- AMD is gonna kick some butt until Intel puts out a
- 64bit desktop cpu.
-
- Hooray for the little guys.

Hate to break up the AMD cheerleading session ... but the whole 32/64 bit argument and clockspeed debate are truly meaningless in the long run ..that is all marketing hype

when talking about x-86 archetecture pipelines & concurrent instructions are where the true power are .. and the code being written today is just scratching the surface of architecture of P4 core ..the beheamoth that it is ....

AMD is trying to get what they can well the gettin' is good .. great for the stockholders today, great for the executive bonus next year, but in say 5 or 6 years ..

bye bye little guy ..

CC

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 01:47 PM
still pimpin with my ti4800 128mg

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 06:15 PM
WTE_Galway wrote:
- these ATI/NV threads are a bit like a "chevy fan" vs
- "ford fan" debate at a street rod meet aren't they



roger that sir

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 07:18 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
-
-
- If you want a card for the future, then buy it in
- the future. Never spend over $200 for a video card.
- Period.

I'd say the ATI folks did all right in there future investment.

As for the NV crowd,looks like they been bent over the barrel and given the NV gallactic *******.

XyZspineZyX
09-12-2003, 07:53 PM
nVidia cheating on frame rates only means they've been caught doing what Ati invented! Whoopy-f**kin'-doo-da....

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 04:20 AM
Actually the quake3 issue was unviersal in the ati drivers (and they released a fix as soon as it was pointed out BY NVIDIA).

The rabbit hole that nvidia has been exposed in is so deep that it is basically never ending-diehard nvidiots are selling their fx 5900s on ebay and no on is buying.

ANand and all other vga websites have been releasing the new findings with publicly released drivers (even though a few sites and nvidia themselves are trying to get benchies run on their overcheating det 50 drivers that are not released yet).

A 9600pro is as fast a 5900U in HL2 and will be in all dx9games.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/120903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 05:48 AM
"Update 09/05: We emailed id Software guru, John Carmack about his experience with NV3x hardware on Pixel Shading performance, and this was his reply:

GD: John, we've found that NVIDIA hardware seems to come to a crawl whenever Pixel Shader's are involved, namely PS 2.0..

Have you witnessed any of this while testing under the Doom3 environment?

"Yes. NV30 class hardware can run the ARB2 path that uses ARB_fragment_program, but it is very slow, which is why I have a separate NV30 back end that uses NV_fragment_program to specify most of the operations as 12 or 16 bit instead of 32 bit."

John Carmack"

Meaning you've relied on shoddy vendors in making your decision to order a 5900U or were too lazy to read reviews, sorry buzzu, you can't sell your 5900u on ebay for much these days, but I did warn you and I care because your retirement fund might be bitten off by nvidia if you keep it up.



rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/120903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 09/12/03 09:50PM by Rogodin

Message Edited on 09/12/0309:51PM by Rogodin

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 06:55 AM
There is no doubt really that ATis Radeon cards are a better deal than Nvidias FX line.

However, real world performance is all that matters, benchmarks for a game still in beta do not. When HL2 is released, this topic would be valid; until then, stop wasting peoples time.

Your Post Could Not Be Completed Because:

Board is busy currently unable to post.

Please make any needed corrections and try again.

Fish itchy

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 08:07 AM
Critt3r wrote:
- Interesting. I am still running a 4200 series. I was
- thinking about getting a new card for Half-Life 2.
- Right now my choice is ATI.
-


I went from a 4200 128 meg "golden sample" to a 9800 (and from a 2.26 P4 to a 2.8), and there was not enough difference in FB to bother... Save your money and wait for the next one....

<img src=http://home.insightbb.com/%7Edspinnett/NonSpeed/SpeedToys.jpg </img>
http://hometown.aol.com/spinnetti/

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 08:14 AM
Spinnetti wrote:
-
- Critt3r wrote:
-- Interesting. I am still running a 4200 series. I was
-- thinking about getting a new card for Half-Life 2.
-- Right now my choice is ATI.
--
-
-
- I went from a 4200 128 meg "golden sample" to a 9800
- (and from a 2.26 P4 to a 2.8), and there was not
- enough difference in FB to bother... Save your money
- and wait for the next one....
-
- <img
- src=http://home.insightbb.com/%7Edspinnett/NonSpee
- d/SpeedToys.jpg </img>
- http://hometown.aol.com/spinnetti/
-



dont you get it??
he wants to play HL2 too, not only FB.
me personally notice very big defferences jumping from 4600 to 9700pro.
dont tell a lie dude.


The Sun is Gone
But I Have a Light
<CENTER>http://images.flagspot.net/i/id%5eaforo.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 11:54 PM
I went from a g4ti4400 overclocked to a 9700non pro (with a 8500 in between), and there was a night and day difference.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/120903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

adlabs6
09-14-2003, 02:05 AM
Some interesting reading on this topic. Thanks for posting it.

I've been bothered that I can't really use my FSAA or AF without a major hit with FB. I was shocked to find that under FS2004, the losses seemed smaller. I did some comparisons between FB and FS2004 to see how each was using my hardware.

Core system:
AMD XP2000+
416MB Ram
Ti4200 128MB 8X
DirectX9.0a
DET44.03

All settings in both sims were set as high as they could go, playable frame rates not with standing. Under FB, this was "Excellent" settings (of course "Perfect" mode cannot be selected under DirectX). Under FS2004, everything was maxed, terrain meshes, autogen, visibility, 3D clouds, everything. FS2004 was measured from the virtual cockpit view.

I measured from the ground and above 5000 meters altitude to see the differences.

===================
Forgotten Battles 1024x768x32

(on the airstrip)
No FSAA/AF - 32
4xFSAA/4XAF - 26

19% loss

(above 5000m)
No FSAA/AF - 70
4xFSAA/4XAF - 30

57% loss

===================
MS FS-2004

(on the airstrip)
No FSAA/AF - 5.8
4xFSAA/4XAF - 5.6

3% loss

(above 5000m)
No FSAA/AF - 13
4xFSAA/4XAF - 11

15% loss
==================

Please forgive my math if I've gone astray. But, it seems that what I suspected is indeed correct! My FSAA and AF performance is considerably better under FS2004. Why this is, I've no idea. I can only guess resource management, since from what I've read, FSAA and AF performace hits are a hardware factor on these NV cards.

Oh and please don't think I'm saying anything of value with this. It's just something I observed. Of course I set the details much lower in each sim for better play, and under FS I can use the FSAA and AF full time with out appreciable impact (I average 18-30fps with my usual settings including FSAA and AF). But both sims sure look nice maxed out. I was blown away by the 3D clouds' draw range on FS...

http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/FS_MaxL.jpg



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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 02:45 AM
Given the recent history of Nvidia driver development (Gforce/nForce), i´m somewhat sceptical that they will manage to make up for the rather significant performance lack of their newest flagships in Dx9 based applications, even if they trade in plenty of image quality. 200% - 300% performance deficit is rather unlikely to be solved with a simple driver update.

http://www.gamersdepot.com/files/nv_bob2.jpg

Baghdad Bob - now working for NVIDIA

============================
The important thing in [tactics] is to suppress the enemys useful actions but allow his useless actions. However, doing this alone is defensive.

Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)
Japanese Samurai and Philosopher
(More than 60 Victories in Hand-to-Hand combat.)

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 03:41 AM
adlabs6 wrote:
- I've been bothered that I can't really use my FSAA
- or AF without a major hit with FB.
- Core system:
- Ti4200 128MB 8X


Welcome to the world of people who can tell the difference between things. There are some people who actually think their GF4 can do AA and Aniso and don't notice the side effect. Next, you will learn that TrackIR is bunk, because since you are getting better at noticing things, you will find that it can not pan smoothly (hardware limitation due to the low refresh rate of it's sensor).



Somebody wrote:
- I am trying to justify the purchase of my buggy 9800pro
- card that doesn't perform as well in current games than
- Nvidia's FX5900. Maybe some premature justification is
- in order? I heard there was a game that is going to be
- released sometime. This game has better frames with ATI
- than Nvidia. I will go out on a limb and say that
- Nvidia might as well close up shop...


Over the last 24 hours, there has been quite a bit of controversy over comments made by Gabe Newell of Valve at ATIs Shader Day.

During the entire development of Half Life 2, NVIDIA has had close technical contact with Valve regarding the game. However, Valve has not made us aware of the issues Gabe discussed.

We're confused as to why Valve chose to use Release. 45 (Rel. 45) - because up to two weeks prior to the Shader Day we had been working closely with Valve to ensure that Release 50 (Rel. 50) provides the best experience possible on NVIDIA hardware.

Regarding the Half Life2 performance numbers that were published on the web, we believe these performance numbers are invalid because they do not use our Rel. 50 drivers. Engineering efforts on our Rel. 45 drivers stopped months ago in anticipation of Rel. 50. NVIDIA's optimizations for Half Life 2 and other new games are included in our Rel.50 drivers - which reviewers currently have a beta version of today. Rel. 50 is the best driver we've ever built - it includes significant optimizations for the highly-programmable GeForce FX architecture and includes feature and performance benefits for over 100 million NVIDIA GPU customers.

Pending detailed information from Valve, we are only aware one bug with Rel. 50 and the version of Half Life 2 that we currently have - this is the fog issue that Gabe referred to in his presentation. It is not a cheat or an over optimization. Our current drop of Half Life 2 is more than 2 weeks old.

NVIDIA's Rel. 50 driver will be public before the game is available. Since we know that obtaining the best pixel shader performance from the GeForce FX GPUs currently requires some specialized work, our developer technology team works very closely with game developers. Part of this is understanding that in many cases promoting PS 1.4 (DirectX 8) to PS 2.0 (DirectX 9) provides no image quality benefit. Sometimes this involves converting 32-bit floating point precision shader operations into 16-bit floating point precision shaders in order to obtain the performance benefit of this mode with no

image quality degradation. Our goal is to provide our consumers the best experience possible, and that means games must both look and run great.

The optimal code path for ATI and NVIDIA GPUs is different - so trying to test them with the same code path will always disadvantage one or the other. The default settings for each game have been chosen by both the developers and NVIDIA in order to produce the best results for our consumers.

In addition to the developer efforts, our driver team has developed a next-generation automatic shader optimizer that vastly improves GeForce FX pixel shader performance across the board. The fruits of these efforts will be seen in our Rel.50 driver release. Many other improvements have also been included in Rel.50, and these were all created either in response to, or in anticipation of the first wave of shipping DirectX 9 titles, such as Half Life 2.

We are committed to working with Gabe to fully understand his concerns and with Valve to ensure that 100+ million NVIDIA consumers get the best possible experience with Half Life 2 on NVIDIA hardware.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 04:41 AM
Yep Nvidia has an excuse for everything even when the truth hits him straight in the balls-they should just be honest about it and admit that thier NV3x cards have major hardware problems.

It's sad.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.uploadit.org/files/120903-rogo2.jpg>



"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 04:53 AM
but the same has been showned in 3Dmark 2003, Tomb raider (which is out now) and HALO and HL 2 which should be out within 1-2 months. Every benchmark which is heavily using PS 2.0 is devastating for the performance on nVidia cards. And by withholding this information more people may be tempted to buy nVidias flagship to later discover that it was all rusty under it´s hull...

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 05:28 AM
You two houdlums can go crawl back in your hole now.

When a game actually comes out that Nvidia doesn't own, let us all know.

Untill then, your best bet is to salvage your ATI card on Ebay.

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 05:38 AM
Nvidia is screwed, PERIOD!

ATI has two strengths that will put them in the drivers seat for AT LEAST THE NEXT 12 MONTHS:

Their memory controller is vastly superior to the competitions,

&

They have already implemented a die-shrink that will allow their next-gen GPU to crush Nvidia's offering in terms of speed(mhz).

MHO,

Ivanmoe

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 05:59 AM
Funny how Nvidia is "screwed" but they have the best card out for this game (FX5900 proven better than 9800 in benchmarks of 30fps or higher)) and are introducing two new flavors (NV36 aka FX5700 and NV38 aka FX5950) at the end of the month.

I think we have a final blow for ATI. (qed)



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Message Edited on 09/14/0301:00AM by RayBanJockey

adlabs6
09-14-2003, 06:33 AM
I don't think nVidia is going away anytime soon. This is hardly a new item that the FX line isn't a windfall of power. I remember seeing this on TV before the FX line was even at retail.

Besides, I'm not going to throw my hardware in the trash each time a new game benchmark is released. My Ti4200 is blazingly good for the $149 I paid nearly six months ago. By the time Maddox Games' next sim is out, or FS2006, I'll just go and buy the best $150-$200 card for the money. And I'll be happy all over again! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 07:05 AM
-- My Ti4200 is blazingly good for the $149 I paid nearly six months ago.

Indeed, I am about to upgrade to a Ti4x00 soon--a local shop still gets them apparently. With the number of aircraft I try to run in FB, video card is not my limitation.

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 03:54 PM
Besides, I'm not going to throw my hardware in the
- trash each time a new game benchmark is released. My
- Ti4200 is blazingly good for the $149 I paid nearly
- six months ago. By the time Maddox Games' next sim
- is out, or FS2006, I'll just go and buy the best
- $150-$200 card for the money. And I'll be happy all
- over again! <img

Definiatly but the difference between the ti-4200 and FX series is that the ti-4200 is a really good video card while FX aren´t. The ti-4200 is dx 8 and thus don´t even have the PS 2.0 shaders whereas the 5900 ULTRA is supposed to be a future proof well performing dx 9 cards.

So hold on to your ti-4200 and be amazed that the gap between your ti-4200 and 5900 ULTRA will be 3 times less when dx 9 games like HL 2 and others comes out. Just look how good the ti-4600 fairs in the HL 2 benchmark thanks to the fact they run in dx 8 mode.

This is only affecting the NV30 and NV35 since all older video cards is dx 8 and will run in dx 8 mode...

But I would consider to fully enjoy the Marvel of DOOM 3 and HL 2 and IL 2 FB save money for a Radeon card. You won´t regret you did.

And new screenshots available showing somewhat how HL 2 will look under dx 8 dx 8.1 and dx 9. Man HL 2 really looks the part. I would bet DOOM 3 will have a hard time top this. Maybe why they delayed DOOM 3 to 2004???

http://www.gamersdepot.com/hardware/video_cards/ati_vs_nvidia/dx9_desktop/hl2_followup/001.htm

PS look at the water especially http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Message Edited on 09/14/0304:20PM by oeqvist

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 06:32 PM
The Det 50's are "Murk" drivers. Several hardware reviewers that have gotten the betas are already commenting on a significant and visible loss of immage quality. Most of them are planning on talking to nVidia about it before the official Det 50's come out, but I stongly suspect that is where most of the claimed performance comes from

links:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7871

Actual compairative screen shots:
http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/aquamark3/index3.htm

Scroll down to the bottom for a direct, side by side compairison between the Det 51.75 and the Det 45.23

nVidia's trying to pull another 3DMurk on us, and it stinks.

Harry Voyager

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XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 08:22 PM
Well at least nVidia aren´t trying to hide it obviously. In one way it´s good.

It shows what kind of optimizations you will encounter in Half Life 2, DOOM 3 and other upcoming dx 9 games and help calculate how big the IQ loss you will have to suffer because of the FX series poor performance.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 02:26 AM
You're delusional rjb

rogo

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 02:46 AM
and RBJ, ATI is also coming out with new cards this fall.

Spets

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 02:54 AM
ANd if you want to know what card is better for FB ask hunter and buzz to do a comaprision with full info about systems and settings-or buy a 3+ghz rig, 5900U, 9800PRO 256mb, two hardrives, and run them with clean installs on fresh os on two different drives so all you have to do is swap hds and vgas and then run your tests on the same monitor and rig.

If you don't do either then your full of crap. Even buzz didn't use the same system for his old 9800pro.

rogo

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 02:56 AM
Rogodin wrote:
- You're delusional

Actually the title of this thread is delusional.

ATI owners looking for a glimmer of hope are delusional.

And who the $%^& is going to play "Half Life" or "Doom"?

Funny how so many full realists around here are closet quake kiddies.

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 04:29 AM
Actually the metaphor is reversed nvidia are the ones with a glimmer of hope.

I personally don't care about hl2 or doom3-I just find it amusing that nvidiots get totally worked up whenever ati dominates (the first time ever right now /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ).

Rogo

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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:14 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
-
And who the $%^& is going to play "Half Life" or
- "Doom"?
-
- Funny how so many full realists around here are
- closet quake kiddies.


Everyone is gonna play doom and HL2, you cant make a retort with out making the person feel bad, you know 5900 sux balls compared to a ATI 9600, so you just say, "all you un-uber kiddies are all sad cause you bought an ati"....... when thats all you can say cause all your numbers are bunk and proved wrong! they didnt use det 50's cause those cheat and dont render fog in HL2, you left that out of your quotes though, you have nothing , just non-sensical putdowns, YOU LOST deal with it, no one has "acephobia" they have F*cking ******ed eyebrow guy a phobia. check this out and cry some more while you wack off to your mom's wedding pictures........... http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7826

Now stop this thread, NVIDIA loses unless they cheat, and when they cheat.... they still lose just by less, live with it, you've been lied/hyped into buying a OC'ed 5800, deal with it.



Message Edited on 09/15/0304:17AM by marty67

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:54 AM
you all do realize that these cards come from the same place...Taiwan. No, they really do, don't fool yourself. But they're the two best cards on the comsumer market, so who cares, just buy one or the other and enjoy your fps, textures, or whatever sh*t that gets you off, pleeeeese.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:49 AM
marty67 wrote:
- RayBanJockey wrote:
--
- And who the $%^& is going to play "Half Life" or
-- "Doom"?
--
-- Funny how so many full realists around here are
-- closet quake kiddies.

I do including the vaste majority of the gaming population who aren´t snowed in on flight sims http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

HL 2 and DOOM 3 is two of the DX 9 games I definiatly will play. +Halo, STALKER (which I just assume is dx 9 or OPEN GL 2.0 but it´s optimized for nVidia I have heard so maybe they have reverted it to dx 8?) and others.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:10 AM
if u want to enjoy doom3, u will by a nvidia card, doom3 and all the games it is sure to power uses open gl, doom3 made the right choice in which gfx library to use and so did il2.

open gl > dx

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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:36 AM
HellToupee wrote:
- if u want to enjoy doom3, u will by a nvidia card,
- doom3 and all the games it is sure to power uses
- open gl, doom3 made the right choice in which gfx
- library to use and so did il2.
-
- open gl > dx
-


Man do your research, haven´t you read the interviews with John Carmack? And there isn´t any real big difference between open gl and directx. You still use the same shaders.

John Carmack is doing exactly the same thing with the NV30 path like the Valve people do. Exactly the same thing. Running 12 or 16-bit precision instead of 32-bit precision because of the poor shader performance of the 5x00. Also very much reverting to dx 8 mode for the nVidia cards.

And yes ATI has sponsored Valve (Half Life 2) and nVidia has sponsored ID software (DOOM 3) but that don´t mean they make the game unplayable on the other platform. These companies want to sell games and satisfy the customers not being lackeys for the video card manufacturers.

It´s all PR nothing else. A nVidia sponsored game doesn´t look any bit better compared to the ATI videocards in relation to non sponsored games.


Take Aquamark 3.0 for examplewhich also is sponsored by nVidia. Or the nVidia dawn demo that runs twice as fast on ATI cards? How come nVidia don´t score as good as the Radeons in that benchmark for example? And that uses PS 2.0 benchmarks very little compared to what the dx 9 games out there do.

There is no real difference between OPEN GL and D3D. You can do the same with both things. It´s just different programming languages.

dx 9 isn´t the issue here. It´s nVidia not following spec and trying to invent a new Glide which is to no service to anyone except nvidia...