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karost
06-19-2004, 04:07 AM
Hi , I need help to update my knowledge about Best corner speed to make a turning well under 3000m. ( in game AEP 2.01 or 2.02 what ever ) for each a/c below from your experience.

Bf109E
BF109F-G
BF109K-4
Ta-152

P-51D
P-47D
P-38L
P-63C
Spitfire VB
Spitfire IX

Thank you.
S!

karost
06-19-2004, 04:07 AM
Hi , I need help to update my knowledge about Best corner speed to make a turning well under 3000m. ( in game AEP 2.01 or 2.02 what ever ) for each a/c below from your experience.

Bf109E
BF109F-G
BF109K-4
Ta-152

P-51D
P-47D
P-38L
P-63C
Spitfire VB
Spitfire IX

Thank you.
S!

DeerHunterUK
06-19-2004, 05:54 AM
This is according to IL-2 Compare v2.4 (Turn Time vs TAS @ 1000m);

Bf109E - 23 seconds @ 280-320 KPH
BF109F4 - 20 seconds @ 310-340 KPH
BF109G2 - 20 seconds @ 300-320 KPH
BF109K-4 - 21 seconds @ 325-335 KPH
Ta-152 - 20 seconds @ 375-400 KPH

P-51D - 21 seconds @ 325-375 KPH
P-47D-10 - 23 seconds @ 350-390 KPH
P-38L - 22 seconds @ 375-390 KPH
P-63C - 20 seconds @ 360-375 KPH
Spitfire VB - 19 seconds @ 260-280 KPH
Spitfire IX - 20 seconds @ 310-340 KPH

Hope this helps a little.

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

Tully__
06-19-2004, 05:57 AM
It will be at or a little over best climb speed in most aircraft.

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karost
06-19-2004, 09:41 AM
well, thanks DeerHunterUK and Tully__ for reply S~ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

seem interesting in Spitfire VB for top corner speed turning and she has a very good climb rate too, she is a best angle tactic in BOB.

and I think P-51D with 25% fuel load may turn batter at 350 Kph.
I see many good pilots like to play P-63C , seem very hard to turn inside P-63C turning circle when he apply batter loop to protect his turning circle, only if his speed lower then 350 Kph. ( not sure ) then have a chance to get inside.

just wonder how much for energy lose ( attitude or speed lose ) per one turn at corner speed for each a/c ???? any friends have any idea about this please share here S~

S!

[This message was edited by karost on Sat June 19 2004 at 09:09 AM.]

JG14_Josf
06-19-2004, 09:42 AM
Corner speed is the highest g possible a the slowest speed possible.

Which sounds like a contradiction since speed is required to pull g force.

It is not a contradiction.

For example:

The game blacks out the FW190A-4 pilot somewhere between 350 and 400kph.

Corner speed is where the pilot blacks out at the slowest speed possible say: 365kph for the FW190A-4 pilot in IL2FB.

At that speed the FW190A-4 in the game should turn the fastest possible turn rate.

Any speeds above or below that minimum speed where black out is possible should be a slower turn rate.

Finding that speed is easy enough and in doing so it becomes clear just how important corner speed really is, in the game, as well as in reality.

Since maximizing turn rate can only be accomplished at corner velocity it becomes very obvious during the tests for corner velocity that at speeds below corner speed the plane must be pitched nose low to get back that turn advantage. At speeds above corner velocity the plane must be pitched up, or throttled down to get slowed up to corner speed.
Pulling on the stick harder to slow the plane down from speeds above corner speed will only black out the pilot.

Another important thing that is found when finding corner velocity in the game is how severely the game models stick force limits on some planes.

Some planes require a whole lot of elevator trim to gain the required force to pitch up to max g. This requirement of elevator trim to pitch up to max g is minimized at corner speed.


At speeds below corner speed the plane isn't going fast enough to black out the pilot so there is no need to dial in higher elevator trim settings.

At speeds above corner speed the game models higher stick forces and on some planes it requires full elevator trim settings just to get the plane to pitch at all.

So when flying the planes with extreme stick forces modeled it becomes obvious when the plane is being flown above corner speed. At those speeds above corner speed the plane will not turn the fastest rate even if the game allowed the pilot to black out at those higher speeds, or even if the pilot dials in full up elevator trim.

Remember: Corner speed is the highest G possible at the slowest speed possible.

Any turn performed above or below corner speed will result in a lower turn rate.

One more important speed to find while testing for that ever so important corner speed is the equally important vertical maneuvering speed.

Both of these speeds can be found on each flight right after take-off while messing around waiting for the rest of the squad to form up.

Or while climbing out to gain combat energy before engaging alone.

Simply turn until black out starts and then maintain that speed in a nose low turn. Watch the airspeed drop until black out in no longer possible. Maintain a constant speed at blackout by lowering or raising the nose with aileron rolls. Decrease speed by raising the nose to keep from blacking out totally. Increase speed by lowering the nose to maintain black out or grey out.

Once corner speed is found, and if you have not crashed into the ground, or pulled up to gain more altitude for a better test, then from corner speed it is easy to simply roll out of the turn and pitch up into a straight up zoom climb. If it is possible to do this vertical maneuvering test then you have found both corner speed and vertical maneuvering speed.

Corner speed for all practical purposes for me and the planes I fly in FB is between 350 and 400kph.

Then again a new patch has just been issued and I haven't yet retested.

I'll do that during my next on-line flight.