PDA

View Full Version : AI in AEP, just the same? JUST THE SAME????



SeaFireLIV
03-18-2004, 05:55 PM
NOWAY! AI has changed a lot, let me point to you my observations:

1. Enemy AI seem to recognise aircraft types. The FW has extended from me nearly everytime I attack. NOT turning with me!

2. I`ve been B&Z twice out of no where! I was flying alonf aware that AI was somewhere, then BOOM! This has happened TWICE so far.I exploded and a Focke Wolf flew down past me! That`s only ever happened online. Now I look UP and around! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

3. I also saw AI German fighters hovering ABOVE a friendly bomber squad, then DIVING down on them!

4. I found myself in a bloody VERTICAL turn fight with a 109!

5. Oleg has increased the spacing of AI aitcraft in formation flying, I`m CONVINCED of it!

There`s more, but I`m still testing.

Only negative I can find is that friendly AI keep nicking my kills!

All those people saying nothing has changed are WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Spitfeur2.jpg
Achtung! IT`S HERE!

SeaFireLIV
03-18-2004, 05:55 PM
NOWAY! AI has changed a lot, let me point to you my observations:

1. Enemy AI seem to recognise aircraft types. The FW has extended from me nearly everytime I attack. NOT turning with me!

2. I`ve been B&Z twice out of no where! I was flying alonf aware that AI was somewhere, then BOOM! This has happened TWICE so far.I exploded and a Focke Wolf flew down past me! That`s only ever happened online. Now I look UP and around! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

3. I also saw AI German fighters hovering ABOVE a friendly bomber squad, then DIVING down on them!

4. I found myself in a bloody VERTICAL turn fight with a 109!

5. Oleg has increased the spacing of AI aitcraft in formation flying, I`m CONVINCED of it!

There`s more, but I`m still testing.

Only negative I can find is that friendly AI keep nicking my kills!

All those people saying nothing has changed are WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Spitfeur2.jpg
Achtung! IT`S HERE!

TooCooL34
03-18-2004, 06:08 PM
Agreed.
Those who say AI has no difference is lame.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=109103562

-----------------

=815=TooCooL34 in =815=Squadron

-= 8 1 5 =- FB Dedi Server is coming soon. (with AEP Dedicated Server)
100Mb IDC line, P4 2.8G server.
Full real but limited icon, minimap path and spdbar.
You can expect something, since I run the server myself. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

brimigus
03-18-2004, 06:11 PM
turn all the planes up to Ace level.They will be doing things that u cant even keep up with,plus they dont miss ever when going high side.I think the AI better than most of the players online.

SeaFireLIV
03-18-2004, 06:16 PM
What I`m doing is testing the AI through a Campaign in 1944. I don`t like QMB, it`s not a good enough test conditions for me.

But i`m impressed AI definitely tries to attack from high and if they go low, they`ll try to get high. Of course sometimes I`ve caught them low. I also had one case where the AI tried leading me to a hot Axis airfield as it ran (that might have been coincidence). I shot him down JUST before AAA opened up. I saved tracks of all this.

So far NO AI collisions! This change really is VERY cool!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Spitfeur2.jpg
Achtung! IT`S HERE!

Arrrra
03-18-2004, 06:16 PM
Soooo true.

I was hot on a AI 109's six when all of a sudden the AI pulled off a bank & roll manuver I've never seen before and ended up at my 8 o'clock low. Of course I had it set on ace, but they fly a lot better with AEB.

SeaFireLIV
03-18-2004, 06:18 PM
Another thing, they don`t seem to do that strange `STALL/HOVER` manouever any more when on their six. They use more realistic ways of trying to escape...

mortoma
03-18-2004, 07:04 PM
I would not be among those who say it hasn't changed but I will say I have not noticed it much, if at all. And I play almost exclusively offline in campaigns. I have around 30 campaigns going and have played most of them since AEP came out, plus started some new ones in some of the new aircraft ( of course ). So the variety of AI types I see is enormous and the mission types also varied from G'attack to Air-Air and everything else you can think of. But I have not noticed all the miracles in AI behavior that others are seeing. Besides, those kind of changes are always mentioned by Oleg in the Readme files every time an expansion or patch comes out. Why is there nothing said about AI improvements?? Oleg would be proud and happy to annouce such things but he never did.

Call_me_Kanno
03-18-2004, 07:19 PM
I have seen the same thing's as SeaFire but just decided to enjoy them instead of saying anything.

Capt._Tenneal
03-18-2004, 07:21 PM
I'm glad you finally got AEP, SeaFire. The wait was worth it, right ?

I do notice the wider formation setting too, and I'm sooo happy they worked on that. Less risk of collisions now. I have so far tried mostly single missions, but I notice that when fighters go on escort missions, they also do less of the "circling around the bombers" behavior like they frequently did in IL-2 and FB. One thing I did not like from FB that still remains, though, is the tendency of AI opponents to bring all DF down to the deck (0-150 m.)

On another note: I'm also glad that, now you have AEP, we'll get to see some AEP-themed cartoons. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Mistel, Gotha, Komet ???

willyvic
03-18-2004, 07:31 PM
Glad ya finally got your AEP SeaFireLIV!

http://www.geocities.com/mompeepers/willyvic/mig3u.jpg

Korolov
03-18-2004, 07:33 PM
Seafire - did you install AEP over 1.22?

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

mortoma
03-18-2004, 07:45 PM
I would think that if the AI has improved as much as is being claimed, that I would be getting shot down more than I used to and also getting fewer kills. But that's not the case at all, about the same as always here. Not trying to rain on anybody's wishful thinking parade. Just have not noticed much and being perfectly honest.

SeaFireLIV
03-18-2004, 08:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Why is there nothing said about AI improvements?? Oleg would be proud and happy to annouce such things but he never did.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As to why Oleg has not said I don`t know why. Perhaps he wants to see if the AI is good enough to be noticed without needing to say. Maybe he likes to test public opinion first. Who knows?

All I know is that the AI has DEFINITELY changed. Some will attack you straight on while other will try to B & Z. I have been b&Z`ed twice, from high out of the blue. The AI never B & Z succesfully like that before. But remember for AI to succesfully B & Z icons need to be off, just like with humans online.

I was not dreaming when I saw 2 dots hovering high over our bombers, I thought they must be friendly, but then they suddenly dived on to them opening fire. That has never happened before.

They try to run or extend, giving their wingmen time to get to you, or hope they can run away and maybe turn later.

They try more `normal ` manouevers like scissoring, barrel -rolling, not the anti-grav move I used to see. That actually makes them slightly easier to shoot down. And they will try vertically fighting. I came into an AI fight and the scene stood out for me because instead of horizontal turning as was the norm, I saw a couple of planes virtically chasing eachother.

This is no fantasy. Look at it, with AEP. IT IS CHANGED.

And, sure I think AEP is great so far. My one gripe is that with the new DM, I`ll smoke a bogey, turn off and the AI wingman will then go and finish him off taking my kill.

Yes. I`ll do more pics based on some of the modern Jerry planes ( a couple on the jets, I think...)

p.s. The Gladiater cockpit is indeed beautiful. I love the ticking clock....

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Spitfeur2.jpg
Achtung! IT`S HERE!

VW-IceFire
03-18-2004, 08:47 PM
I love the new AI...I've almost forgot a bunch of times I was fighting against AI and not against human pilots. Sometimes they do some mechanical things but they are much more unpredictable than before.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

steve_v
03-18-2004, 08:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Only negative I can find is that friendly AI keep nicking my kills!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed. They have also shot me several times, although never fatally. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Saburo_0
03-19-2004, 10:40 AM
i tried a post in ORR to get clarification on what adjustments were made to the AI.
Still, it's obvious some people will never be happy with it & others will think it's a pretty great accomplishment.

i THINK that formation flight has been improved, some screwy anomalies have been fixed & perhaps the AI are more aware of the relative performance of the planes they are flying & those they are up against. But i have no proof of course. maybe i'll bump the post in ORR, but i imagine Oleg is busy working on the patch.

oh, well nice to hear somebody with something positive to say!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TugZooey
03-19-2004, 11:33 AM
Yes, very good to hear somebody complimenting the "AI changes." I noticed things seemed a little different (especially with friendlies now flying farther apart in formation). And yes, the wingmen are more blood thirsty. I usually disengage if I smoke an engine good, but my wingmen is insistant on finishing the kill (I completely killed an engine on a spit, propeller stopping, and my diabolical wingman sawed his wing off a few seconds later).

Bearcat99
03-19-2004, 12:09 PM
I agree.. the AI even before was the best in any sim I've flown..but now...whooooaaa!!

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

Capt._Tenneal
03-19-2004, 12:53 PM
SeaFire try this -- copy the campaign folders that came with the original IL-2 (I think a Russian fighter, Russian sturmovik, and German fighter) to AEP and try them again and see how the new AI improvements give new life to those campaigns.

TooCooL34
03-19-2004, 12:57 PM
Are they compatible?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt._Tenneal:
SeaFire try this -- copy the campaign folders that came with the original IL-2 (I think a Russian fighter, Russian sturmovik, and German fighter) to AEP and try them again and see how the new AI improvements give new life to those campaigns.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-----------------

=815=TooCooL34 in =815=Squadron

-= 8 1 5 =- FB Dedi Server is coming soon. (with AEP Dedicated Server)
100Mb IDC line, P4 2.8G server.
Full real but limited icon, minimap path and spdbar.
You can expect something, since I run the server myself. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

horseback
03-19-2004, 01:05 PM
The bastages are still hiding behind my canopy frames at every opportunity, though...

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

MB_Avro
03-19-2004, 01:39 PM
I have no analytical evidence but I've noticed that the AI are not as predictable and will catch me unawares. They appear to act more as a 'team'.

Regards
MB_Avro

hrvojej
03-19-2004, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Only negative I can find is that friendly AI keep nicking my kills!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was very pelased when my squadron leader who kept doing this finally crashed into a mountain while trying to do just that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Btw, has it always been the case that the AI doesn't care whether I'm in a formation or not? They just seem to zoom off, and it's hard to catch up with them. Also, they don't always fly at the altitude given through radio messages (let alone that I don't know at what speed the flight should be flown).

Corrvan
03-19-2004, 05:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
So far NO AI collisions! This change really is VERY cool!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
haha, oh god. i remember in my first campaign, when i first got transfered to a new airport. everyone took off, i sped ahead because i didnt want to get suck, i look behind me, and everyone else in my squadron, and 2 patroling sturmoviks, AND 5 of our bombers... all just ram right into eachother. bloody funny sight.
nothing like that since AEP http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mortoma
03-19-2004, 08:19 PM
There may be something to the claims they fly farther apart when in formation, but that's not neccesarily an AI improvement. Just an improvement in the coding as to how far apart they should fly. It's not their "intelligence" that is making them fly farther apart. I still see no real difference in their skill overall. I got bounced by two 109s today while with my flight leader ( only the two of us ) while on the way to bomb an airbase. This may seem like "BnZ" tactics but they always have bounced like that when attacking from higher altitude and from behind initially. They turn fight from then on and won't ever set up another BnZ pass.

AnalFissure
03-19-2004, 08:28 PM
Agreed, Mortoma.

The AI's perceived intelligence is such a subjective thing.

I think you guys are suffering from a bit of wishful thinking. I haven't noticed any "improvements", so to speak.

Comptonb
03-19-2004, 11:01 PM
I don't know it the AI has changed, because, to be honest, I never paid close attention to it prior to AEP. I did perform a test:

4 Ace P-40s vs. 4 Ace A6Ms, letting the AI control my flight. Upon making contact, the P-40s immediately gained altitude and dove on the Zeroes. The Zeroes tried to lure them into a turning fight, but the P-40 lead wing dove & zoom-climbed back up as the 2nd wing engaged the A6Ms. The Zeroes never split up, while the Warhawks used a "tag-team" approach.

Historically, very accurate; I think it was Saburo Sakai that said the Americans were better at fighting as a team & improvising, while the IJN tended to fly "by the book." I don't know if this is a product of AEP, but impressive nonetheless.

IV_JG51_Prien
03-19-2004, 11:17 PM
Yes, the AI is improved over what it was before..I'm enjoying how MOST of the time they actually do stuff like extend/get altitude adavantages etc..

However..yes however..I've still had them do that funny turn/stall/hover hokiness when I've been on their six.

In my 110 campaign, one mission just after takeoff the AI planes one after another stacked themselves into a mountain that was near the airfield.

Improved, yes.. Fixed..no

http://www.jg51.net/downloads/squadbanner.bmp

SeaFireLIV
03-20-2004, 04:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
There may be something to the claims they fly farther apart when in formation, but that's not neccesarily an AI improvement. Just an improvement in the coding as to how far apart they should fly. It's not their "intelligence" that is making them fly farther apart.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sigh... Of course I know that`s NOT AI `intelligence`. I just lumped the whole lot into the argument `cos it`s part of the AI aircraft experience. If you want to get really nit-picky you can then say there`s no such thing as `AI`, which there isn`t.

We should all really say PROGRAMMED ROUTINES, not AI and then even the spacing out I mentioned would fit. This is just semantics.

Sheesh. (I have to explain everything in black and white, I can`t leave a space out at all).

And there have been differences in AI B&Z, does no one read my detailed proof. I have records of it. Of course,nothing is perfect, but you guys aren`t seriously expecting HUMAN AI are you? Give it 50 years, you may just get it.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Spitfeur2.jpg
Achtung! IT`S HERE!

Extreme_One
03-20-2004, 05:39 AM
I'm with you Seafire. There are BIG improvements!!!

And Oleg HAS mentioned that the AI has been re-worked - does no-one read the manual?

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-11.html). *NEW*

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

SeaFireLIV
03-20-2004, 05:48 AM
Thankyou, Extreme-One. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tully__
03-20-2004, 05:52 AM
Not everyone has mentioned the skill settings of the AI they're commenting on. Perhaps those who aren't noticing much difference are flying against mostly "Average" & "Rookie" AI??

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/Corsair.jpg (http://www.mudmovers.com/sturmovik_101/FAQ.htm)

IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)

Salut
Tully

azpilot
03-20-2004, 08:39 AM
One of the nicest improvements IMHo is the AI gunners. They seem to use burst firing as opposed to the fire hose of 1.XX and they are MUCH less sniper-like.

psyconutt
03-20-2004, 08:42 AM
Is the AI improvement mainly noticable in FMB/campaign or missions? As I don't really notice much difference in the QMB. So far I have only tested in the QMB.

I haven't really seen AIs conduct true BnZ attacks, maybe on the first pass, but after that they will commit into turning fights.

Also when you tail them, at the 300m mark, they will automatically start the barrel roll/high AOA manouver and start the slow TnB fight, everytime, which becomes predictable.

Victor.

psyconutt
03-20-2004, 08:44 AM
Sorry I forgot to add some further details... I always set the AI to ace level, and mostly fly 2 vs 2 or 4 vs 4 in the QMB.

Victor.

SeaFireLIV
03-20-2004, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by psyconutt:
Is the AI improvement mainly noticable in FMB/campaign or missions? As I don't really notice much difference in the QMB. So far I have only tested in the QMB.

Victor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tully has a point that noone`s giving details. Ok my Campaign difficulties are:

AI: Normal.
Campaign difficulty: Hard.

This only sets the STARTING AI in campaign as opposed to setting it in QMB. On Campaign the AI difficulty goes up or down, depending on their experience. So sometimes you`ll meet the rookie-noob, and at others the skilled Veteran. This is why I like doing things through the Campaign, you get a variety in testing. It takes longer, but is less biased and more accurate to true observations.

I have flown a variety of fighter and fighter escorts (I`ve flown about 10 missions now). This way I get to fly under several different conditions that cannot all be gained through QMB. I`ve always said that , IMHO, it`s a mistake to rely on ALL tests just through QMB.
AZpilot is right AI gunnery seems very slight toned/down, but it`s hard for me to confirm.

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Sat March 20 2004 at 08:17 AM.]

tsisqua
03-20-2004, 09:20 AM
Rgr on the vertical turn-fights, SeaFire.

I have to wonder if this reworking wasn't necesarry due to the addition of the 163, the 229, the YP-80 . . . etc . . . Actual turnfights with these secret weapons always seems to turn into a loop-fest because of the sheer speed of them. If the other planes now know how to dogfight vertically because of the addition of the jets, then what a nice bonus.

Tsisqua

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/tsisqua-nedChristie.jpg
Tsalagi Asgaya Galvladi