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View Full Version : When in combat save options and restrictions



Teddy Bar
08-28-2004, 08:59 PM

Teddy Bar
08-28-2004, 08:59 PM

HeibgesU999
08-28-2004, 11:08 PM
Real Life can pop up unexpectedly. Windows can crash often. I say save whenever.

hauitsme
08-28-2004, 11:09 PM
I'm not the only one to play on my machine and to have only 1 slot to save in per mission is not right. And maybe I'll play the same mission but go in different directions or have different weapons/damage/etc. Too many games only give you 1 slot and I have always hated them or stopped playing them because of this. But you SHOULD NOT be able to save if an enemy is near(say within visual/detection range).http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/kult.gif

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SailorSteve
08-28-2004, 11:41 PM
I agree with Heibges; it's my machine and my play, let me save whenever I want. I like SHI's system, though: save anytime, but if you die it locks up the career and that captain is dead.

______________________________

The poster said "Join The Navy, See The World". So I did, and I'm here to tell you, the world is flat and blue.

Teddy Bar
08-29-2004, 12:01 AM
THIS IS AN OPTION FOR THE DIE HARDS NOT IN ANY WAY DESIGNED TO STOP THE CASUAL PLAYER FROM SAVING LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW

@ hauitsme,
This OPTION IS when the enemy is in range, not when you are cruising around like a tourist.

This OPTION IS per career, so if you have five careers going then you have a slot for each or more slots depending upon your choice.

@ SailorSteve,
As per the other forum.... it is an OPTION!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do respect your desire to save when ever you wish and as many times as you wish. I also think that you should be able to save when and where ever you want. NO ONE has suggested removing this right from you.

This does not effect when you are sailing around like tourist.


Thanks for the reply's http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers,

Teddy B¤r

U1409
08-29-2004, 02:52 AM
This discussion always seems to appear in all kinds of games. And I belong to the save-whenever-you-want camp. I appreciate that the limited-saves approach can increase tension but certainly also frustration. And frankly, I find the arguments of the limited-saves people somewhat missing. As I understand, they want the limitation put in the game because they do not have the willpower to uphold it on their own initiative. IMHO, that is a lousy reason to rob others of THEIR experience. Nothing should ever force a player to save a game, and nothing should prevent him from it either. Implementing limited saves as optional could work, though.

I could accept no-saves during close encounters, though.
__________
"Einmal vor Unerbittlichen stehen, wo keine Mutter, sich nach uns umsieht,
wo nur die Wirklichkeit herrscht, Grausam und Groß"

Teddy Bar
08-29-2004, 03:57 AM
I am beggining to wonder if many you comprehend the meaning of the word OPTION....

For sake of those who do not comprehend the meaning I'll spell it out further?

Option: The act of choosing; choice; Something chosen or available as a choice.

Choice: The power, right, or liberty to choose; option;

NOTE: I do respect your desire to save when ever you wish and as many times as you wish. I also think that you should be able to save when and where ever you want. NO ONE has suggested removing this right from you.

Cheers,

Teddy B¤r

Drebbel
08-29-2004, 04:28 AM
I would like to have restricted save options when in combat. But to satisfy all players it would probably better to make it possible to save a game in all situations.

Of course the best would be to have some realism settings in the options menu where one can set in which situations "save game" is available. This would probably need very little coding and will ensure that everybody is happy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And what the heck does 'saving into a slot' mean ??? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif


Drebbel

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TASKFORCE1x1
08-29-2004, 05:07 AM
IMO-

Making any sim successful is to make it as real as possible but with the events of real daily life and running anything on a pc I believe everything should have a way to save but within limits.

Save game should be a neutral function-This should not be exploitable as to keep people from dodging the enemy so best way is that as long as the enemy is not activly searching for you then your ok to save and another rule should be that you have to be a certain distance from the enemy before save.

If save game is to be activated during multiplayer dynamic campaigns then you should be able to save only when you can dive to a ceratin depth and when no enemy could of contacted you. If you saw the enemy, say its a convoy,the enemy should go about its buisness as usual. If you return to action 24 hours later then you should expect that convoy to be 24 hours away from your current saved location.

Overall All I'm saying is that saved games should be saved in the most common sense way. A saved position should be fair to both enemy and you. Also coded so no one can edit a saved file to keep cheaters at bay. In earlier PC games you could edit saved files to get extras,change positions, and even score. Good example was AD&D games. The multiplayer saved game should be a server side save. If people want to cheat in a single player game then they are only cheating themselves.

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Teddy Bar
08-29-2004, 07:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This should not be exploitable as to keep people from dodging the enemy so best way is that as long as the enemy is not activly searching for you then your ok to save and another rule should be that you have to be a certain distance from the enemy before save. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
TASKFORCE1x1,
This I feel would be even for me an unworkable option. The main reason is that a cat and mouse game with the enemy could take hours of real time. It is unfair to loose sevreal hours due to 'real life', power or an operating system crash.

Drebbel,
Think of a wall with 20 boxes in it, or shall we say 20 slots. Normally a game has 20 slots (i.e. 20 available boxes) in which you can save before having to over write that slot.

People have said I want my option to save anywhere, anytime as often as I want to, but it is THE only way. My request for an OPTION, an OPTION that does not impose upon you, to be able to limit the ability and chances is dismissed.

NOTE: I do respect your desire to save when ever you wish and as many times as you wish. I also think that you should be able to save when and where ever you want. NO ONE has suggested removing this right from you.

Anyway, thanks for the reply's http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Cheers,

Teddy B¤r

HeibgesU999
08-29-2004, 03:14 PM
It seems a huge waste of time and DevTeam resources to implement an option that can just as easily be accomplished through player choice.

If you want to save, then save.
If you don't want to save, then don't save.

Let the DevTeam spend their time fixing and refining areas of the game which the player does not have control of.

Teddy Bar
08-29-2004, 05:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
It seems a huge waste of time and DevTeam resources to implement an option that can just as easily be accomplished through player choice.

If you want to save, then save.
If you don't want to save, then don't save.

Let the DevTeam spend their time fixing and refining areas of the game which the player does not have control of.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
A typical answer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I don't want it so it will be a Huge Waste of Time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,

Teddy B¤r

Drebbel
08-29-2004, 06:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
It seems a huge waste of time and DevTeam resources to implement an option that can just as easily be accomplished through player choice.

If you want to save, then save.
If you don't want to save, then don't save.

Let the DevTeam spend their time fixing and refining areas of the game which the player does not have control of.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But that also goes for many other realism option, the outside camera for instance.

Thanks for the explanation Teddy. Fortunately my PC uses filenames and not slots http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

DerKomet
08-29-2004, 07:14 PM
Or you could have a system that would only allow you to save every 8 game hours (not real time), wether your in combat or not.

hauitsme
08-29-2004, 07:56 PM
Teddy Bar wants to have an 'option' to:
"have very limited saves when in combat".

SailorSteve says:'let me save whenever I want' and 'save anytime, but if you die it locks up the career and that captain is dead'

I said:'you SHOULD NOT be able to save if an enemy is near(say within visual/detection range)'


OK, you changed my mind. Being able to 'save anytime' SHOULD be available ALWAYS, and not as an 'option'. But, if you die it locks up the career and that captain is dead. That works for me. I see a very LARGE cheat being available if you're able to save during combat otherwise.
Example:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>A destroyer is coming down your throat dropping/shooting everything it has.
<LI>You save.
<LI>continuing the game, you die.
<LI>You restart, you die again.
<LI>You restart, you survive and escape.
[/list]

Do you see what I mean? But, if you die, it locks up the career and that captain is dead. That solves that. NO CHEATING!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/it.gif

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HeibgesU999
08-29-2004, 08:11 PM
Totally, and like in SH1, the name of the Kalue, Uboat Number, and circumstances of loss are recorded on a Wall of Honor for future viewing, listed in chronological order. Think of how your Wall of Honor will grow over the course of many years and many many campaigns.

for example:

Hans SchmidtU-23 KIA Atl. DC'd. Nov 12, 1939
Paul Grosse U-79 POW Atl. DC'd. April 7, 1940
Tomas KohlerU188 KIA USCoast.Bombed.Feb 7, 1942

GUNNER67
08-30-2004, 08:31 PM
I think the reason most people on this forum are against "saving anywhere" is that they want bragging rights when competeing against other players. Thats fine. I like to brag too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif I don't, however, like being forced to play the same mission over and over again because I zigged when I should of zagged, especially if we're talking about something that may take "real-life" hours to re-do. And as for the the "lock career on death," well, that just plain sucks!
For bragging rights all they would have to add is a stat that listed how many times the player died.

Hauitsme said:
__________________________________________________ ___________________________
A destroyer is coming down your throat dropping/shooting everything it has.
You save.
continuing the game, you die.
You restart, you die again.
You restart, you survive and escape.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________

This guy would have 2 deaths listed. You still have bragging rights if you didn't die at all. This would probably only take an hour to program in.

Options are also good:

Landlubber (Easy): Save anywhere, anytime... even with a destroyer about to pop you in the keister(sp?). I don't mind saying this is what I'll be using 99% of the time.

Captain (Medium): Limited saves. No saving with an enemy actively seeking you, or better, limited deaths - after say, 3 to 5 deaths, career is locked.

HARDCORE! (Hard): One save. No saving with enemy actively seeking you or within 5000m of an enemy. Career locked on death.

Or just check box options:

[] No saving within 5000m of enemy.

[] Limited deaths. Career locked after 5 deaths.

[] Career locked on death.


I wouldn't force you to save every five seconds if you didn't want to, so please don't force me to repeat hour long missions 10 times.
Bragging rights could be handled with a simple death count.

U1409
08-30-2004, 09:38 PM
Career locked on death?
Excuse me, but I think that is a terrible idea. I do not know about you, but I certainly do not have the time to play this game over and over and then all over again until I get it right. That does not mean that I do not want to enjoy all aspects of the game, though, and as a paying customer I would expect to play a career from start to finish and preferably get beyond the Type II canoe within a decent time frame.

Any limitation imposed on a player is a probable cause for frustration. Imposing limitations on MY gameplay experience because YOU want to brag about your results seems pretty unreasonable to me. If you call that cheating, then my response is a big "So?". You might as well make it locked from modding for the same reason.
I just do not think anyone should dictate how I should or should not play the game. A simple death count in statistics could work. I honestly think that would take more than an hour, though - you do not seem to have included testing, documentation, and (re)design of user interfaces to name a few.

__________
"Einmal vor Unerbittlichen stehen, wo keine Mutter, sich nach uns umsieht,
wo nur die Wirklichkeit herrscht, Grausam und Gro&#223;"

Teddy Bar
08-31-2004, 12:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't, however, like being forced to play the same mission over and over again<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
SHIII will have a open random campaign, where you go out do what you do best, sink allied shipping, then return to port. You return to port when you want, be it 10 days, 10 weeks or 10 hours later. There will not be the SHII 'LEVEL' design where as if you don't get the key you don't proceed to the open random campaign of SHIII.

As I see it, it will be the same format as AOD but improved!
In AOD, you were assigned a patrol zone, you sailed to it, sinking ships and then came home, repeat and rinse.
OR, you were assigned a patrol zone, you sailed to it, sank nothing and then come home, repeat (hopefully not the sink nothing) and rinse.
OR, you were assigned a patrol zone, you sailed to it, sank something, got beat up bad, then come home, repeat and rinse.
OR, you were assigned a patrol zone, you sailed to it, sank something, got sunk, your career ends, start a new one.

What I don't understand is how so many have such selective reading to suit their wants...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Imposing limitations on MY gameplay experience because YOU want to brag about your results seems pretty unreasonable to me<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
THIS IS AN OPTION FOR THE DIE HARDS NOT IN ANY WAY DESIGNED TO STOP THE CASUAL PLAYER FROM SAVING LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW

Option: The act of choosing; choice; Something chosen or available as a choice.

Choice: The power, right, or liberty to choose; option;

NOTE: I do respect your desire to save when ever you wish and as many times as you wish. I also think that you should be able to save when and where ever you want. NO ONE has suggested removing this right from you. Please respect my desire to have saving restrictions.

Cheers,

Teddy B¤r

hauitsme
08-31-2004, 01:42 AM
This is turning into another 'LIFEBOAT' argument/discussion!

But as was stated there, the DevTeam has already said what it is going to be. NO

And the DevTeam has already stated how the game save is going to be. Anytime, no enemies near.

END OF STORY ON BOTH ACCOUNTS!!!

So let's keep arguing/discussing them both!

Maybe they'll change their minds on both/this one/that one.

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bertgang
08-31-2004, 04:51 AM
I can stay with any option, if it's only ... optional.
But I never liked forced save restrictions.
I need unlimited savings, even during combat, because I never know in advance when I'll have to stop playing and turn off my computer; lot of interesting situations lost in that way.

GUNNER67
08-31-2004, 06:26 PM
U1409, did you actually read my post? I'm not a proponnent of "Career locked on death" I think that's stupid, just like you do. I was listing OPTIONS, that YOU would CHOOSE or NOT CHOOSE. I wasn't imposing anything on you, I want "save anywhere, anytime" just like you. I was giving options that would make the game fun for casual players and diehards alike. The career lock and other restrictions are OPTIONS for the hardcore players who like such things.

Teddy Bar, what I was trying to say is... I find a nice juicy target, say an aircraft carrier or battleship (something big). Now I'm definately gonna want to sink it. I save game. Then spend the next five or ten minutes, depending on tactics) to get into position for an attack. I want to save here, also. So if I accidently increase my speed and start cavitating (if diesel boats don't cavitate, sorry, just an example) and 3 destroyers jump on me and I'm destroyed. I don't want to have to go all the way back to the first sighting and go through it all again. If I put a couple of torps into the carrier and sink it, I wanna save here, too. So when the destroyers come after me I have as many chances to escape them as I need. I want to get that carrier without having to "start from scratch". And I do respect your desire to restrict YOUR play any way that pleases youhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

To my above post I might add that in addition to the the stats showing how many times a player died, that they also show what restrictions the player was operating under.

hauitsme
08-31-2004, 08:02 PM
I was just wondering something.

Did you read the 3rd line of the last post on Page 1 of this thread ?

If not, read it. If so, carry on.

Just wondering. Thank You

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