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LieutenantRex
07-25-2015, 09:35 AM
Connor got screwed over, we all know this. His entire life was a tragedy: mother dies, mentor dies, village and people gone, Homesteaders eventually moved away, etc. What sucks is that Connor actually had a chance for true happiness, but his wife (a blonde white woman... seriously?), left him AND took his kids as well. What the heck is that? Can't Ubisoft give this guy a break? I honestly don't even know if he'll ever be given a proper ending. It's disgusting how they treated him. Ubisoft held no qualms about tying up Altair's and Ezio's endings, so why is Connor denied the same right?

Any thoughts on this, guys? Connor was my favourite Assassin (although he wasn't the best - Altair holds that title), and I just want some closure for him. I understand that in life, happy endings aren't common, but Connor's entire existence is just a trainwreck. Anytime I replay AC3, I just can't help but think that old Connor is probably going to kill himself after realizing he got tricked by some spirit into supporting those who would rob his people of their land. He probably wouldn't have joined the Assassins again if he was given the chance. It's just regret after regret. He lived an entire life based on idealistic tenets and views, and it resulted in nothing good for him. Poor Connor.

Also, can anyone really believe that Connor married a white woman with blonde hair? That just seems ridiculous for his character and denotes the underlying theme of acquiesced assimilation in AC3.

steveeire
07-25-2015, 10:59 AM
Thats what happens when you have the personality of a shoe. Connor is utterly forgettable.

GunnerGalactico
07-25-2015, 12:07 PM
Oh boy, looks like Round 1 is about to go under way. :rolleyes:

*grabs popcorn*

dxsxhxcx
07-25-2015, 12:46 PM
It's time to let it go and move on...

VestigialLlama4
07-25-2015, 01:18 PM
It's disgusting how they treated him. Ubisoft held no qualms about tying up Altair's and Ezio's endings, so why is Connor denied the same right?

The same reason Ubisoft find "women too hard to animate" or why they only have eyes for Ezioclones. Old Altair got sweetened up for Revelations to make him worthy of Ezio's contemplation and the only reason is Altair was the star of AC1, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten closure either.

itsamea-mario
07-25-2015, 01:30 PM
Also, can anyone really believe that Connor married a white woman with blonde hair? That just seems ridiculous for his character and denotes the underlying theme of acquiesced assimilation in AC3.

No i cannot, the races should be kept pure.

steveeire
07-25-2015, 01:37 PM
No i cannot, the races should be kept pure.

Sieg heil






Joking.

Hans684
07-25-2015, 01:39 PM
The results he made is unforgettable.

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-25-2015, 02:51 PM
The results he made is unforgettable.

This.

Regarding the thread:

1. YOU like Connor?! Please, don't make me die laughing. Almost every single post you make of him is more criticism than praise, unless youve "changed your perspective" :rolleyes:

2. About the blonde wife and kids thing, one word: Abstergo. Just about nobody believes anything that Abstergo has written is taken as truth. Period.

3. Connor killing himself would be the most ridiculous ABSURD way to get rid of him, almost as absurd as Edward Kenway's death.

4. Considering Connor was young and a bit naive, he believed he could set things right if he dealt with them quickly and honestly. I'm pretty sure most of us felt that way at some point when we were kids - which is why lots of people relate to him the most out of all the other assassins. But now he knows the world is not like that. You can say that being an assassin does not always end in a happy ending, Since he's become older and more mature, he realizes that and most likely will learn from it.

5. And of course, I'm a little less hopefully for a sequel, but hey, the way I'm seeing the fans, they;ll take anything they can get, even an ending similar to Altair's in ACR, but now that Corey May is gone, anything can happen; I just hope they do it right.

I-Like-Pie45
07-25-2015, 03:52 PM
No i cannot, the races should be kept pure.

Every day I see humans in America casually mixing races, with no regard for the consequences like STDs and genetic mutations.

Mr_Shade
07-25-2015, 04:32 PM
That's enough of that please..

Locopells
07-25-2015, 05:27 PM
Mario, Pie, don't go there...

EmptyCrustacean
07-25-2015, 05:52 PM
I love posts about Connor. I find it so revealing about gamer tastes... (you know what I mean)

GunnerGalactico
07-25-2015, 08:10 PM
I was really expecting this thread to get out of hand :p

On a serious note, I've accepted the fact that Connor will not be getting a sequel. Looking at it realistically, Connor and every other protagonist after him got "open-ended" endings (with the exception of Edward because he was killed off-screen). Maybe sometime in the future, Connor, Aveline, Arno (and maybe Shay) will get their stories all wrapped up in a comic/graphic novel/short film.


I love posts about Connor. I find it so revealing about gamer tastes...

That makes both of us. Why would people fight tooth and nail for Connor? Because they know a good character when they see one and there is a reason as to why the fandom is divided about this. Call me crazy, but I don't see anybody kicking up a fuss over Arno... probably because they don't really give a damn about him. Period. Heck, people wanted a charismatic character,so Ubi made Arno charismatic and people don't seem to like him. Despite being an okay character, he just didn't make that much of an impact as Connor did for me.

LieutenantRex
07-25-2015, 10:23 PM
Despite being an okay character, he just didn't make that much of an impact as Connor did for me.
You're okay, babe. You're okay.

SixKeys
07-25-2015, 11:04 PM
That makes both of us. Why would people fight tooth and nail for Connor? Because they know a good character when they see one and there is a reason as to why the fandom is divided about this. Call me crazy, but I don't see anybody kicking up a fuss over Arno... probably because they don't really give a damn about him. Period. Heck, people wanted a charismatic character,so Ubi made Arno charismatic and people don't seem to like him. Despite being an okay character, he just didn't make that much of an impact as Connor did for me.

People here really throw the word "charismatic" around too lightly.



charismatic

karɪzˈmatɪk/

adjective
adjective: charismatic

1.

exercising a compelling charm which inspires devotion in others.

In order to be considered charismatic, a character needs to appeal to a wide range of people. If nobody likes Arno, then he is by definition not charismatic.

ACZanius
07-25-2015, 11:51 PM
I really love Connor and i wished for another Connor game in AC3/4/Rogue engine, i actually hoped when they announced another last gen AC game that it just has to be Connor, Assassin's Creed sucks at this point, i'm really getting tired of same copy-paste animations, same stupid "brash" protagonist every year, fatigued, fillers, If they don't drop the ball with Syndicate and make it deep experience with big things happening, Juno, Modern Day, Eve, Revolution, i really don't see how people still get excited lol.

Inb4
- 1% of modern day, cutscenes, or lame walking with tablet with no action in MD
- no major progression of over-arching plot
- broken at launch yet again
- cartoonish clunky combat from recent gameplays




Same thing every year, complaining, hope next year oh another AC, "again & again & again" definition of insanity basically, at the end of the day the only thing that gives my spirit peace is that Jeffrey Yohalem is main writer.

SixKeys
07-26-2015, 12:04 AM
Same thing every year, complaining, hope next year oh another AC, "again & again & again" definition of insanity basically

The irony is that Jeffrey probably wrote that line in FC3. Wonder if he was thinking of AC.

Altair1789
07-26-2015, 07:54 AM
2. About the blonde wife and kids thing, one word: Abstergo. Just about nobody believes anything that Abstergo has written is taken as truth. Period.

Since it seems like that's the last we'll hear about Connor, it doesn't matter if Abstergo said it, that's the last we're getting. We can't assume it's just a lie, and even if we do, it's not like we'll ever know that it is

GunnerGalactico
07-26-2015, 08:33 AM
People here really throw the word "charismatic" around too lightly.



charismatic

karɪzˈmatɪk/

adjective
adjective: charismatic

1.

exercising a compelling charm which inspires devotion in others.

In order to be considered charismatic, a character needs to appeal to a wide range of people. If nobody likes Arno, then he is by definition not charismatic.

No, no, I knew exactly what I was talking about. I never had a problem with his mischievous and charming personality at the beginning of the game. By the end, he was just uninspiring to me.

SixKeys
07-26-2015, 02:32 PM
No, no, I knew exactly what I was talking about. I never had a problem with his mischievous and charming personality at the beginning of the game. By the end, he was just uninspiring to me.

You said Ubi made Arno charismatic, but that's untrue. You can't "make" a charismatic character. You create a character and the public will either find him charismatic or they won't. The word is defined by the character's popularity. If Arno isn't popular, then he cannot be charismatic. Ezio can be described as charismatic because he's actually popular.

VestigialLlama4
07-26-2015, 02:47 PM
You said Ubi made Arno charismatic, but that's untrue. You can't "make" a charismatic character. You create a character and the public will either find him charismatic or they won't. The word is defined by the character's popularity. If Arno isn't popular, then he cannot be charismatic. Ezio can be described as charismatic because he's actually popular.

Well, Ubisoft marketing themselves describe Arno, and now this Jacob Frye dude, as charismatic types. Ergo, they want him to be "Ezio-esque". Arno in the game is intended by the game to be this guy we are supposed to root for and find cool. He ends up being, to use a french word, a poseur.

EmbodyingSeven5
07-26-2015, 02:58 PM
Well, Ubisoft marketing themselves describe Arno, and now this Jacob Frye dude, as charismatic types. Ergo, they want him to be "Ezio-esque". Arno in the game is intended by the game to be this guy we are supposed to root for and find cool. He ends up being, to use a french word, a poseur.
I disagree. Edward was perceived in his marketing to be an Ezio clone but that wasn't the case. People debate whether or not Arno was an Ezio clone. I think Arno was a blank slate personally. In the terms of Jacob.......I'm getting more of an Edward feel from him. They are similar in a few ways

Edward:
Influential Pirate
Roguish Charisma
Brash
Templars happen to be the people who Pirates often steal from or are people who fight pirates on the front lines.

Jacob:
Influential Crime lord
Roguish charisma
Brash
Templars happen to be part of the opposing gangs.

We haven't had any clear Ezio clones, so Arno and Jacob being that is debatable at most.

I do agree they need a Female protag with her own main game in the franchise.

SixKeys
07-26-2015, 03:29 PM
Well, Ubisoft marketing themselves describe Arno, and now this Jacob Frye dude, as charismatic types. Ergo, they want him to be "Ezio-esque". Arno in the game is intended by the game to be this guy we are supposed to root for and find cool. He ends up being, to use a french word, a poseur.

Ubi also markets their collectables with the word "iconic" even when those things haven't had time to become iconic (like Aiden Pearce's "iconic" hat which you could get as a Watch Dogs preorder bonus). It's a case of misusing a word. It doesn't matter what Arno is intended to be, it only matters how he ends up being perceived by the audience.

VestigialLlama4
07-26-2015, 04:51 PM
To be fair. Even before Unity was released they were accused of being sexist because of this.

That accusation has merit. They are sexist.


Arno will also be added to this list <------ Can we ever expect him to find out how his father was killed.

That part was actually added in late. They wanted to connect ROGUE to UNITY and made Shay whack Arno's Dad, the voice actor for Shay actually questioned this since he felt this should be followed up in UNITY but they just added it in anyway.

VestigialLlama4
07-26-2015, 05:25 PM
As a female I don't see them as sexist ;)

Also huh I don't understand your explanation of Unity/Rogue :confused:
They should still follow it up. Also I find it odd Arno didn't find out why his father got killed.:confused:

Especially since the game makes a big deal out of that watch. I remember that before the game everyone said that the watch was some POE or First Civ tech...in the game its just a prop in cutscenes. Not even a gameplay artifact, like say using the watch to time your movements or as some sort of gadget or trinket that solves puzzles and opens Tombs.

As for why Arno didn't worry about avenging his father. Well, maybe Arno is one of those kids who didn't like his biological parents upbringing so much, since a lot of stuff was happening that he didn't understand, that he simply liked his adopted parents better. Its not a story that gets told often, we are supposed to think of the orphan as being curious about their "True parents" and "identity" and while that can happen, you also get stories where kids readily assimilate or enjoy new parents or the change better. I think Arno secretly was grateful for his father's death. He got a life of privilege, total freedom, none of the emotional baggage and pressures with biological parents, and a childhood sweetheart in the bargain. I think he just put it in the back of his mind since his life was so good. Its a classic Templar strategy as well, considering how his adopted Dad raised him. Don't worry about your problems and your issues, just look at all the shiny attractive stuff and privilege you have, and relax.

steveeire
07-26-2015, 05:47 PM
Assassin's Creed Unity does have some massive plot holes, but then it was never a story about revenge, it was just a story of Arno trying to get into Elise's pants.

VestigialLlama4
07-26-2015, 05:50 PM
Assassin's Creed Unity does have some massive plot holes, but then it was never a story about revenge, it was just a story of Arno trying to get into Elise's pants.

Yeah. I guess that's the reason why everyone likes that Baloon moment (or what I like to call Assassin's Creed DISNEY ALADDIN Magic Carpet moment) where Arno clearly got into Elise's pants.

shobhit7777777
07-26-2015, 06:06 PM
You said Ubi made Arno charismatic, but that's untrue. You can't "make" a charismatic character. You create a character and the public will either find him charismatic or they won't. The word is defined by the character's popularity. If Arno isn't popular, then he cannot be charismatic. Ezio can be described as charismatic because he's actually popular.

"Inspires devotion in others" - "others" here being in-game characters. Popularity =/= Charisma.
A character can be popular for any number of reasons. Charisma governs a protag's relationship with other characters within the game's narrative.

Also, Connor is a fictitious character and therefore, has about the same "rights" as a wood******'s fart. So, No...Connor "deserves" sweet **** all.

And whats with the title - "Don't forget Connor"....damn near every thread here inevitably comes around to the protags in AC games, with Connor being a point of rabid contention....and somehow sexism and racism also creep into the "conversation"

steveeire
07-26-2015, 07:06 PM
I thought Edward was very charismatic, its why everyone in that world loved him even though he was being a ****** bag. Connor though, I have chopped wood that had more charisma. I also don't see how Edwards motivation was bizarre, doesn't EVERYONE like money? Its also worth noting that it was his motivation for only 95% of the game the last 5% he was trying to fix what he had broke.

Kaschra
07-26-2015, 07:20 PM
I thought Unity's story was a nice change from Edwards bizarre " I WANT MONEY" motivation. <----- if you can even call it that ;)
And what's so bizarre about someone who was a piss-poor peasant to make enough money to life a decent life?

Besides, Edward's motivation was more than just money.

GunnerGalactico
07-26-2015, 07:39 PM
You said Ubi made Arno charismatic, but that's untrue. You can't "make" a charismatic character. You create a character and the public will either find him charismatic or they won't. The word is defined by the character's popularity. If Arno isn't popular, then he cannot be charismatic. Ezio can be described as charismatic because he's actually popular.


Ubi also markets their collectables with the word "iconic" even when those things haven't had time to become iconic (like Aiden Pearce's "iconic" hat which you could get as a Watch Dogs preorder bonus). It's a case of misusing a word. It doesn't matter what Arno is intended to be, it only matters how he ends up being perceived by the audience.

Fair enough. All this drama because of the misuse of a word. But my point still stands. Arno, whether charismatic or not, wasn't well received well by a lot of people.


I thought Edward was very charismatic, its why everyone in that world loved him even though he was being a ****** bag. Connor though, I have chopped wood that had more charisma. I also don't see how Edwards motivation was bizarre, doesn't EVERYONE like money? Its also worth noting that it was his motivation for only 95% of the game the last 5% he was trying to fix what he had broke.

Well it might have started out that way, but it wasn't always about the money. ;)

VestigialLlama4
07-26-2015, 07:56 PM
I thought Edward was very charismatic, its why everyone in that world loved him even though he was being a ****** bag.

Ultimately I think charisma has little to do with the character and more to do with the supporting cast and the equation between them and the leads.

In AC1, Altair was not charismatic and deliberately so, it explained why the other Assassins hated him, why he has to undergo character development and why Malik isn't being a jerk by giving him the cold shoulder throughout the game. Altair really is a d-ck and he never asks for your sympathy by giving you a tragic backstory or a laundry list of excuses like the Templars do in their deathbed conversations. Altair's like, "This is me, I am an a--hole, get used to it" and he slowly earns your appreciation much like he gains Malik's forgiveness. So in a way Malik is a barometer for how we are supposed to feel about Altair, until in the end they are totally "ride-or-die" bros. With Ezio, he has no such problems with his family and friends, they all love each other unconditionally, even in Brotherhood where he and Claudia get huffy it comes because Ezio cares deeply for her and Claudia for Ezio. Ezio also has Leonardo, the coolest best friend anyone can have and he has Machiavelli to hang out and trade witty banter with. He's basically a really cool guy and we like playing him because we like to hang out with cool people and their cooler friends.

With Connor, you basically have a young boy who was orphaned early, and then sent out of his village to a new culture where his only company in the Brotherhood is old people like Achilles and Robert Faulkner, he never had a chance to come into his own among his peers and grow. So he's aloof by circumstances and a bit of a wallflower and because he's always with older dudes, he's perenially the Kid. Even Luke Skywalker hung out with Han Solo and the Hot Girl who turned out to be his Sister while going to Jedi School. So Connor is interesting, he's unique and, deliberately so, he's not "cool" or not immediately so, that defines his relationships with the colonists, where he's never really part of a group and is usually an errand boy or pawn. I think the main reason people like Haytham is more to do with the fact that he interacted with a range of people on even terms allowing him to respond differently in the opening section, so you had the illusion that Haytham was more "charismatic" or personable than he really was, when its more a function of writing. Edward Kenway like Ezio had that amazing cast of supporting players to hang out, so he comes of as charismatic or "likable" because he and Blackbeard are bros, he flirts with Mary Read and Anne Bonny, and Adewale and the Assassins, much like Malik, slowly warms over to him, and in the end he's this cool dad to his little girl. That I think is a flaw with Arno. He doesn't really have a decent supporting cast to interact with, meaning that you are stuck entirely with a superficial "Ezio clone" but without the warmth and humor of interesting company that made Ezio Ezio.

I think ultimately, people want that in-game validation, and that's why they reject Connor who is a fascinating character, because he doesn't have that and has to come to terms with the fact that he's never going to get it, and that upsets gamers who ultimately want power fantasies.

SixKeys
07-26-2015, 08:34 PM
"Inspires devotion in others" - "others" here being in-game characters. Popularity =/= Charisma.
A character can be popular for any number of reasons. Charisma governs a protag's relationship with other characters within the game's narrative.

That STILL doesn't describe Arno. Name one character he "inspired devotion in" during Unity. Bellec called him a pisspot, Elise saw him as a lovesick puppy, Mirabeau thought he was reckless. Even the little kid in Dead Kings went back and forth on his opinion of Arno.

shobhit7777777
07-26-2015, 09:10 PM
That STILL doesn't describe Arno. Name one character he "inspired devotion in" during Unity. Bellec called him a pisspot, Elise saw him as a lovesick puppy, Mirabeau thought he was reckless. Even the little kid in Dead Kings went back and forth on his opinion of Arno.

Arno?
It seems you've mistaken my post in this thread for genuine interest in the subject matter. I came in here to point out that your logic was a bit off. I'm in a particularly assholish mood today.

TBH I didn't much care about the narrative in Unity...it was entirely forgettable. The last time I was engaged with an AC game's narrative was with the Ezio trilogy, and even those games had some terrible sequences.

All in all, the AC game's have never impressed me with their plots...I'm in for the urban ninjagiri

steveeire
07-26-2015, 09:15 PM
I don't think Elise seen him as a love sick puppy, she did love him back , she just had the stronger personality of the two and I think she knew that, in her letters it is clearly obvious that she hoped for a future that they would be together in.


Yeah I get that but for a AC game it felt a lot more like a "pirate" game ;)
Well it is supposed to be both, it was an interesting look at how someone with some pretty bad personality flaws finding his way to the creed and with it find a little redemption.

Mr.Black24
07-26-2015, 09:40 PM
Looking how AC Chronicles China turned out, I really hope Connor doesn't get a game based on that.

I'd rather get a book than a poor *** game on him. Him and the other three.

Shahkulu101
07-27-2015, 01:17 AM
I think we all just have to accept that Ubi took a risk with Connor that didn't pay off and he's never going to come back in any way, shape or form because Ubisoft see him as a stain on the franchise.

Whatever the reasons for his piss-poor reception, it doesn't matter. The character is dead because very few people - in relative terms or course - give a flying **** about him. Those of us who enjoyed his character (like me) just need to accept that.

ze_topazio
07-27-2015, 01:56 AM
Looking how AC Chronicles China turned out, I really hope Connor doesn't get a game based on that.

I'd rather get a book than a poor *** game on him. Him and the other three.

I had more fun playing Chronicles China than AC3, no joke, CC is pleasant little game that flows pretty well, and has some really interesting mechanics and ideas, AC3 is that game that seems like every single one of its design decisions was made with the objective of frustrating me or bore me to death.

A Chronicles game would make more justice to Connor than that disgrace that is AC3.

steveeire
07-27-2015, 04:50 PM
No, at the end it is implied he shared their ideals.

steveeire
07-27-2015, 05:02 PM
In his conversation with the Assassin grand Master can't remember his name, they had a discussion about the Creed.

Jessigirl2013
07-27-2015, 05:05 PM
In his conversation with the Assassin grand Master can't remember his name, they had a discussion about the Creed.

That's one of the things that annoyed me about Black Flag, It left like character development and plot were given a backseat.;)

Kaschra
07-27-2015, 06:34 PM
That's one of the things that annoyed me about Black Flag, It left like character development and plot were given a backseat.;)

Yeah... no.
Edward had a lot of character development ;)

KG_NOx
07-27-2015, 09:04 PM
Yeah... no.
Edward had a lot of character development ;)

In one single game

Jessigirl2013
07-31-2015, 10:14 PM
Yeah... no.
Edward had a lot of character development ;)

I think its just my opinion on the game in general ;) he never really seemed like an assassin. It didn't really seem like an AC game :confused:

Like many people who complain that BF would be better without the Assassin gameplay, I'm the opposite and wanted more ;)
It just didn't fulfil the expectations I had after the ACIII ending ;)
The modern day gameplay was also lacking IMO.