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View Full Version : What's the chance of Java and Borneo being included?



Jeronimo83
04-28-2004, 04:56 AM
Anyone got an idea? I think Java has been an interesting landmark in the occupation of the Dutch East Indies and I know that a lot of brave battles have been fought there especially from the side of the Dutch.

Jeronimo83
04-28-2004, 04:56 AM
Anyone got an idea? I think Java has been an interesting landmark in the occupation of the Dutch East Indies and I know that a lot of brave battles have been fought there especially from the side of the Dutch.

DuxCorvan
04-28-2004, 05:54 AM
Well, if Luthier and 1C people have made numbers, the sim will be mainly US-centric, because that's the biggest potential market for a game about the PTO, and it's also the most popular scenery outside the USA. It's just a matter of money and game diffusion.

But, since they are also trying to open the Japanese market -and these are interested also in the early stages of war, when they were winning- and seem to have also included some Commonwealth aircraft and USAAF/IJA planes, there's a chance for us to see less common sceneries -i. e. inland ones, besides the deep-blue carrier-and-island ones.

Gibbage's CW-21 has disappeared from the updates, and that could mean the project has been fortunately 'kidnapped' by Luthier, so we could see some Dutch East Indies combat. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

But if you are the same Jeronimo who's modeling the cockpit, you should know it better than me, and if you don't... that could be bad news. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

SkyChimp
04-28-2004, 05:59 PM
Java would be great. That involved almost everyone - US, British, Dutch, ...

Regards,
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Rhavin_
04-28-2004, 06:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Java would be great. That involved almost everyone - US, British, Dutch, ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I've heard that even the Japanese were there. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Giganoni
04-28-2004, 06:54 PM
What? Java? Sumatra? Borneo? Whats that? Shokis defending the oilfields of Palembang? Whats that? Nah...not important at all, I mean, it was only a vital area which Japan needed for oil. Bombed by bombers and attacked by British carrier aircraft. Nah, that would make the game have too much variety..which is a horrible thing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Korolov
04-28-2004, 07:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rhavin_:
I've heard that even the Japanese were there. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the Japanese didn't want coffee at the time.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

sainta
04-29-2004, 06:49 AM
It would be great to have a map of a part of the East Indies in Pacific Fighters.

And don't forget that Australia is pretty close, so many missions from Australia were flown over the East Indies. So I bet it's interesting for the Australians as well. That would only add an additional market.

---------------------------
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Lt.Davis
04-29-2004, 08:12 AM
Borneo will be great, cause when i was at the age 0f 13, someone found a Japanese fighter wing near my school. It's only a wing with Japanese marking, unknown plane type. It was 17 years ago, and i still remember very clearly.

"Biar berputih tulang, jangan berputih mata"
Translated:
"Let the whites of your bones, but do not show the whites of your eyes"

Platypus_1.JaVA
04-29-2004, 09:28 AM
Yes of course there should be the JAVA map added!! AT least!!! If possible, The Dutch with their own markings and default skins should be added. May great battles where fought whith inferior and far too less material against an overwhelming force of Japanese. This is one of the "forgotten battles" for us Dutchies!! Most of the planes are allready in the game for that, Brewster Buffalo for instance. We also used the Curtiss Interceptor. We should have the Martin B-10 bomber also, if Netherlands will be added as a nation.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

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CornbreadPattie
04-29-2004, 09:33 AM
A Martin B-10 is a bloody brilliant idea!

Sharpe26
04-29-2004, 09:40 AM
Dutch East Indies would be great, along with some flying boats, naturally.

1.JaVA_Razer
04-29-2004, 11:45 AM
Yes
JAVA NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
please include http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif thank you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


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Dimensionaut_
04-29-2004, 12:09 PM
I also support the idea of the Netherlands should be added as a nation and Java as a map.
Most aircraft used by the Dutch are allready in the game or are being worked on...

And I agree, maybe less known, but there has been some 'good' fighting at sea and in the air in that area. And most allies were in that neighbourhood at some time: US, UK, Australia etc.

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</A>

JaVA_FD
04-29-2004, 12:17 PM
Great idea, flying PBY's on SAR missions would be a great plus!!

Most of the planes are indeed already in FB
Throw in a flyable B25 and the fun is almost complete.

gombal40
04-29-2004, 02:08 PM
Java map?? after Pearl the japanese went after what the needed most... oil. If not included it would be like il2 without Stalingrad
(allies lost this one (all the heroics like in Bataan aside)but we had a great comeback.

Like above stated most planes are already there
The Deamon would be an jewel. like the .. well they know...

PEHAEE
04-29-2004, 03:54 PM
DUTCH EAST INDIES
IT SHOULD BE

Think about the Gattalina's

It's a small country but it had
GREAT PILOTS.

ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL

Tonkin
04-30-2004, 02:46 AM
The Pacific is a huge area. Java an Borneo would be nice to have, since it represents the dutch battles (Brewsters, Curtiss and Hawks and Glenn Martin bombers) against (superior) japanese forces.

Giganoni
04-30-2004, 03:15 AM
I think the fighting later in the war in Sumatra, Java and Borneo even more intense than the early war.

GerritJ9
04-30-2004, 04:59 PM
The B-239 as already in FB would require some updating as the Dutch versions had more powerful engines, but that should not be too difficult to achieve. Apart from the B-10, the Dornier 24 would definitely be a must. Hudsons? Most certainly! Basically, many of the aircraft are already in FB and AEP- the Dutch Hawk 75A-7 was similar to the Hawk 75A-4 so no problem there. The CW-21B? Hardly a successful aircraft, so as far as I am concerned forget it.

Jeronimo83
05-01-2004, 10:53 AM
Actually I'm modelling the CW-21B myself. I'm currently busy with the cockpit and Gibbage has started on the external.

DuxCorvan
05-01-2004, 11:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GerritJ9:
The CW-21B? Hardly a successful aircraft, so as far as I am concerned forget it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a recreation of historical warfare. We can't have only the successful ones, because they didn't have that choice. CW-21B was there, successful or not, so it must be here, too.

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

DIRTY-MAC
05-02-2004, 07:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GerritJ9:
The CW-21B? Hardly a successful aircraft, so as far as I am concerned forget it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PFFFFFFTTT!.......

DIRTY-MAC
05-02-2004, 07:30 PM
dont forget this one

http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel-afb/cw21_00336_4g.jpg

Maj_Death
05-02-2004, 08:43 PM
I'd fly it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

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michapma
05-04-2004, 10:00 AM
Hi everybody,

Time for a little perspective here, so that we realize just what we're asking. Java is not a very big country? Let's just have them model the Dutch East Indies? Here's a map from Mapquest:

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/images/java/mapquest_java.png

Now look at the scale, about 400km/9mm. I just measured it on my screen with a transparent ruler. I measure the main island of Java as being about 25mm long. Rounding off, about 1,100km in length.

I also opened up a Mapquest map of the Helsinki /St. Petersburg (Leningrad) area. At 20km/8mm, the distance from Helsinki to Leningrad was 122mm, right around 300km. So the largest map currently in FB is what, 400km long?

That's just the main Java island. Look at the map again. We're talking about a HUMONGOUS map with all kinds of tiny islands. Not many cities back then, but the topography alone at a FB-level of detail is, to say the least, a fantastic undertaking.

We've been promised Singapore, I wonder how much area that will cover?

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
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michapma
05-04-2004, 10:20 AM
It's not that I want to rain on everyone's parade... hopefully we can get small parts of the area where the actual action took place. I'd love 3000 km+ maps too, mind you. If my computer could handle them.

So here are some snapshots I took on a vacation to Australia, between Singapore and Brisbane...

Small islands off of Singapore

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/images/java/DSCF0022_800.JPG



Off the northern coast of western Java, the airliner is actually approaching or over the island off of the main island just below the S in Surabaya in the map of the previous post. The volcanos started becoming visible in the distance, and are on the main island south of Surabaya. Note the meaning of "Pacific blue"...

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/images/java/DSCF0026_800.JPG


Here is what the LCD screen on the seat in front of me showed of our trajectory while these volcanos were in sight.

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/images/java/DSCF0027_cropped.JPG


Another look of the same volcanos, the island we're over is visible. It was a really clear day, I wouldn't know but I guess it's typical visibility.

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/images/java/DSCF0029_800.JPG


This photo is too wide for the forum and reducing it destroys its worth, so here is a link instead: link (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/images/java/DSCF0032_cropped.JPG)

In fact, the full-sized versions of some of these photos are avaiable in this folder (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/images/java/).


If you look carefully at where the trajectory is taking us, you'll see that we go right over the northeastern most part of the main island. Just before that, there is a bit of land that just directly north from between two volcanoes. This is that bit:


http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/images/java/DSCF0033_800.JPG


And, having flown on from that tip, you can see here the easternmost volcanos and the eastern shore:


http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/images/java/DSCF0035_800.JPG


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Would love to see these kinds of graphics in a sim one of these days... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

Jeronimo83
05-05-2004, 06:38 AM
Thank you for this contribution.

I also have thought about the size of Java, but I was wondering the following. It would be possible to model just the lower part of Borneo and the upper part of Java for combat of the water in between. It would also be possible to only model the eastern part of Java and have the battles take place over Java itself. Both battles would be historically real, and the latter option (eastern Java only) would have the option of air starts or carrier starts for the Japanese. I personally think a eastern Java map with the island of Madura and the city of Soerayaba would be excellently entertaining, historically real and important, and very much possible with the FB engine.