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SpiritOfNevaeh
07-16-2015, 02:26 PM
Finally got to play the story of Unity. I tend to write things down while I'm playing the game so I don't forget to post them later, so here's my random thoughts.

- I knew this before I started playing the game due to Twitter/Tumblr etc, but I'm still mad they have those Helix memories in the beginning just there and we never get to play them -_-

- I have to admit the graphics are really good!

- If little Arno had stayed put…!

- So is Arno more of a thief than an assassin? Most of the times he’s stealing something in the story :p

- The parkour controls take a bit of getting used too, but the physics of the parkour seem difficult to maneuver.

- I HATE that they have Eagle Vision on cooldown, amongst the other things that need cooldowns DX

- I HATE that you have to be high leveled enough to do a main sequence/mission. Like seriously. This is not an RPG game; you are an assassin and it should only require “skill of the player” themselves to complete it. For God’s sake, Edward was only a pirate assassin and knock his enemies in the dirt.

- But I did love the way the missions were not completely linear and you can finish it in all sorts of ways :)

- WHY BELLEC?! WHY?!?! This was an awesome chance to unite with the Templars and you let that opportunity slip by?! The same idea as Connor basically, but a compromise couldn’t be reached?

- I really liked Bellec, but after what he pulled, unless I'm not understanding something, I don’t know how I feel about him anymore. Poisoning Mirebeau was a little extreme and I don’t think it was necessary.

- Saw a lot of finishing moves copied from Haytham/Connor/Shay/Edward. Can these new assassins not have their own move sets? :rolleyes:

- Remind me never to become an assassin if I time travel back to the French Revolution. You need to “pass a test while high on some drink they give you.” XD

- The rifts ARE a bit challenging, but fun nonetheless.

- The checkpoints in this game SUCK!!!

- So it looks like you can get expelled from the brotherhood in this time period if you break the tenants of the Creed or "don't follow orders". Just goes to show you that the brotherhood in this time period was “extreme” for lack of a better word. I think they call them “traditionalists?” And considering the brotherhood existed in almost all the AC time periods, I'm pretty sure all but one or two broke one of the tenants and never got expelled, so what makes this brotherhood so special?

- Even though Arno got kicked out of the brotherhood, he still played “assassin,” why? Now that he had the skills of an assassin, he didn’t need them anymore? Maybe now that he is out, he didn’t feel tied down to following orders/rules anymore? Or was he just unaffected?

- Best way to cope with getting kicked out of the assassin brotherhood when they didn’t want to listen to your reasoning in the first place? Drinking yourself to death :rolleyes:

- I really love the random crowd events they put in here. It makes me wonder what it would have been like if it was added to AC3 like they originally promised.

- It didn’t look like Elise played a major role in the game at all. It looked like she only appeared when Arno was on a mission. I wish we could have controlled her in-game or she had more of a better backstory than just saying “she is a Templar.”

- THANK GOD FOR THE OPTION TO SKIP/FAST FORWARD THROUGH CREDITS, although I do want to know who worked on the game when I finish the first time.

- Beautiful but sad story though IMO. Lots of symbolism in this game/story, which I love <3

- But I beg you Ubisoft, CUT DOWN ON THE COLLECTIBLES.

I know now why the game was called Unity; there was an attempt to create one but it could never have been. Bellec and Germain saw the union as making both sides weak, but I still believe both sides could have come to a compromise. Even companies today, like those who have merged with another, or even those in competition with each other, have come up with compromises to not get in each other’s, way sort of speak.

Maybe a bad comparison but I think you get my point.

Also, it might just be me, but I don’t think I learned so much about the French Revolution at all. Yes, I know they want to avoid the mistakes of forcing the protagonist to be too involved with the events like Connor in AC3 did, but to me, I felt that the French Revolution was just there to have a very dark atmosphere behind the main story of the game and not be “included” in the story as a whole.

Regardless, the story was good but it could have been better. This time period was just as important as the American Revolution, considering the American one INSPIRED the French one, and I think a huge opportunity was wasted.

I’ll probably play the game again just to be sure I understand everything. I always play a game twice so pick up anything I missed or misunderstood. A good game but I expected more.

7.5/10

steveeire
07-16-2015, 02:42 PM
You could always get expelled from the brotherhood, Altair did except he got expelled at the end of a blade.

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-16-2015, 03:09 PM
You could always get expelled from the brotherhood, Altair did except he got expelled at the end of a blade.

True, but that technically doesn't count since he A. "Died " and B. was brought back.

When I say expelled, I literally mean it, exactly or similar to Arno's.

Xstantin
07-16-2015, 03:22 PM
Nice write up :p good time to play the game after patches and no companion app crap

I thought Arno's drinking sequence was nice overall, but I tend to like these moments (imo they're still better than something like "the character is wounded and can only move really slow")
You'd get used to controlled descent, I played ACIII and Black Flag afterwards and kept pressing circle :)

steveeire
07-16-2015, 04:08 PM
True, but that technically doesn't count since he A. "Died " and B. was brought back.

When I say expelled, I literally mean it, exactly or similar to Arno's.

Technically or not he was expelled, it actual makes more sense that he would be killed rather than let go, you wouldn't just release someone whom you have trained and knows everything about you.

TO_M
07-16-2015, 04:22 PM
- I HATE that you have to be high leveled enough to do a main sequence/mission. Like seriously. This is not an RPG game; you are an assassin and it should only require “skill of the player” themselves to complete it. For God’s sake, Edward was only a pirate assassin and knock his enemies in the dirt.



This isn't exactly new to Unity, Black Flag had a similar leveling "requirement" for the naval campaign missions.

VestigialLlama4
07-16-2015, 04:43 PM
This isn't exactly new to Unity, Black Flag had a similar leveling "requirement" for the naval campaign missions.

Thats not the same thing at all. Putting away mortars and stuff is not the same as locking up a staple like Double Assassination. Its like saying you need to upgrade before you can broadside or use a swivel gun (basic controls introduced in the first naval mission of AC3) or wait for several levels before you can toggle half and full sail.

It doesn't even have the excuse of greater realism.

Shahkulu101
07-16-2015, 05:39 PM
The levels only recommended that you be a certain level, you weren't stopped from doing a 5 star mission if you character level was below that. You're fine doing any mission at level 3, which is easy to obtain. So no, you weren't forced to grind and level up to play certain missions.

Although in general I hate skill trees. Feels like a chore and that's why I don't normally like RPG's. I just want to play the game not spend ages musing over menus, they take a bit of the fun from games like Arkham and Far Cry to me. Obviously they're a staple in RPG's so I can't complain about them being present there, but when RPG-lite elements encroach on adventure/open world territory I'm irked to no end. Especially since they can't make them deep enough to even matter.

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-16-2015, 08:12 PM
Technically or not he was expelled, it actual makes more sense that he would be killed rather than let go, you wouldn't just release someone whom you have trained and knows everything about you.

If that was the case, why didn't they kill Arno? He technically knew everything about the brotherhood and was let go without wiping his memory or whatever. Like I said, not the same.

even so, this was still the only incident where an assassin was expelled for breaking the rules sort of speak.


The levels only recommended that you be a certain level, you weren't stopped from doing a 5 star mission if you character level was below that. You're fine doing any mission at level 3, which is easy to obtain. So no, you weren't forced to grind and level up to play certain missions.

Although in general I hate skill trees. Feels like a chore and that's why I don't normally like RPG's. I just want to play the game not spend ages musing over menus, they take a bit of the fun from games like Arkham and Far Cry to me. Obviously they're a staple in RPG's so I can't complain about them being present there, but when RPG-lite elements encroach on adventure/open world territory I'm irked to no end. Especially since they can't make them deep enough to even matter.

Agreed

TO_M
07-16-2015, 09:45 PM
Thats not the same thing at all. Putting away mortars and stuff is not the same as locking up a staple like Double Assassination. Its like saying you need to upgrade before you can broadside or use a swivel gun (basic controls introduced in the first naval mission of AC3) or wait for several levels before you can toggle half and full sail.

It doesn't even have the excuse of greater realism.

If I remember correct you don't actually "need" any of the unlockable skills in Unity, as in they are not required to be able to play/finish the game. Those skills just add variety/make it easier.

Just like in Black Flag, where you are not required to get all the naval upgrades for the missions which at the start suggest you use an upgraded ship, they are there to make it easier/add variety

So since both have optional upgrading systems I'd say they're pretty similar.

Fatal-Feit
07-16-2015, 11:10 PM
- I HATE that they have Eagle Vision on cooldown, amongst the other things that need cooldowns DX


It's worth noting EV is more effective this time around. You can see through walls, instantly highlight targets, and parkour while using it. That was a balance.


- I HATE that you have to be high leveled enough to do a main sequence/mission. Like seriously. This is not an RPG game; you are an assassin and it should only require “skill of the player” themselves to complete it. For God’s sake, Edward was only a pirate assassin and knock his enemies in the dirt.

No, no, no, no, those stars are there to show its challenge. You can play any difficulty at any rank.


- WHY BELLEC?! WHY?!?! This was an awesome chance to unite with the Templars and you let that opportunity slip by?! The same idea as Connor basically, but a compromise couldn’t be reached?

The point of Unity was to show the flaw and defeat in uniting. Bellec, Germain, they're the product of what unity does to the two orders. It makes the two order weak.


- I really liked Bellec, but after what he pulled, unless I'm not understanding something, I don’t know how I feel about him anymore. Poisoning Mirebeau was a little extreme and I don’t think it was necessary.

Depending and where you stand, you don't have to forgive him, but understand him. Bellec wasn't in the wrong. The Assassins do not need Mirabeau. While the Templars are strengthened through the coup d'etat and are no longer held back (aside from needing to finish off Elise), Mirabeau was a problem that the Assassins did not need.


- Saw a lot of finishing moves copied from Haytham/Connor/Shay/Edward. Can these new assassins not have their own move sets? :rolleyes:

The finishing moves (I counted about 8) are only from AC3. Black Flag and Rogue didn't borrow those ones. The bench animation is from all of them though, yep. Arno also borrows a few dynamic blending animations from AC3. i.e laying near a wall


- Remind me never to become an assassin if I time travel back to the French Revolution. You need to “pass a test while high on some drink they give you.” XD

Best high ever. AMIRITE?


- So it looks like you can get expelled from the brotherhood in this time period if you break the tenants of the Creed or "don't follow orders". Just goes to show you that the brotherhood in this time period was “extreme” for lack of a better word. I think they call them “traditionalists?” And considering the brotherhood existed in almost all the AC time periods, I'm pretty sure all but one or two broke one of the tenants and never got expelled, so what makes this brotherhood so special?

The better is question is what makes Arno so special. The Brotherhood is just like any other Brotherhood, and I'm pretty sure they're just as tolerable as any. After all, Mirabeau is still around. :p Keep in mind Arno have done quite a bit.

1. He disobeyed orders.

2. Killed a Templar without permission.

3. Shows no signs of believing in the Assassins' cause. He often disagreed or makes snarky remarks at their plans.

4. Brought a Templar to the hideout in hopes of helping said Templar.

5. Killed Bellec, one of theirs, for Elise. Arno told them the story, but it still must have been hard to grit their teeth and allow him permission to continue doing what he wants. And for the Templar, no less.

6. Arno continued to pursue helping the Templar in comprise of the Brotherhood. Come on, he spared Germain's life for the Templar.

So, really, they were too light on Arno. Like Edward, he abused the Creed for his own means, and even went beyond that, and they still kept him for quite a while.


- Even though Arno got kicked out of the brotherhood, he still played “assassin,” why? Now that he had the skills of an assassin, he didn’t need them anymore? Maybe now that he is out, he didn’t feel tied down to following orders/rules anymore? Or was he just unaffected?

Well, it's not like anyone wants to give up the skills and abilities they've learned from when they were an Assassin. It's badass. Look at Edward and Shay. They made it far in life with said skills. :p

The affect by the banishing is a yes and no with Arno. He have always been using the Assassins, abusing the Creed for himself. They were how he got his leads to help Elise. But they were also his second meaning in life. After all, he joined the Assassins because he had no other purpose. When Elise left him, he joined the Assassins. But this time, Elise left him AND the Assassins banished him. So the impact, while it wouldn't have been impacting, hit him even harder at the time.

Dunno if that answers your question, though.


- I really love the random crowd events they put in here. It makes me wonder what it would have been like if it was added to AC3 like they originally promised.

I know right! AC3 was the perfect setting for it.


- But I beg you Ubisoft, CUT DOWN ON THE COLLECTIBLES.

LISTEN TO THIS, UBS


I know now why the game was called Unity; there was an attempt to create one but it could never have been. Bellec and Germain saw the union as making both sides weak, but I still believe both sides could have come to a compromise. Even companies today, like those who have merged with another, or even those in competition with each other, have come up with compromises to not get in each other’s, way sort of speak.

Eh, companies today don't share different idealogy on how the human race should survive. And murder people.


Also, it might just be me, but I don’t think I learned so much about the French Revolution at all. Yes, I know they want to avoid the mistakes of forcing the protagonist to be too involved with the events like Connor in AC3 did, but to me, I felt that the French Revolution was just there to have a very dark atmosphere behind the main story of the game and not be “included” in the story as a whole.

A lot of the French Revolution is in the CO-OP and side missions. Personally, aside from missing the Reign of Terror, I think the history/narrative ratio was perfect in Unity. You got to see King Louis' speech in Versailles, participated in the Siege of the Bastille, King Louis' beheading, met Napoleon before his tyranny, Marquis de Sade, Mirabeau, Germain, and all the other historical characters, witnessed the fall and capture of Robespierre's, and a few other historical stuff. I've only played the game once and I'm not a history guy, so I don't know the others. If you think about it, more than half of the sequences were historical in some way. The events just weren't as bombastic as AC3 or Black Flag. It's easier to be more excited for the war scenes in AC3 or meeting famous pirates in Black Flag.


7.5/10

Dang, I gave it a lower score, but that's probably because I was there for all the ULCs shenanigans.

SixKeys
07-16-2015, 11:15 PM
Nice write-up. As TO_M said,you're not actually required to be higher level to take on certain missions. It's just recommended due to higher difficulty.

pacmanate
07-16-2015, 11:23 PM
You forgot to mention one of the biggest things at the end.

You unlock his master Assassin outfit... when previous he was expelled from the Brotherhood and nothing in the story hinted he returned.

I would give the game a 7/10. I honestly don't think anyone is missing much.




I honestly think that AC4 was the best AC game, at least for me.

It had a protag outside the conflict,
wasn't a revenge story,
the voice acting is the best in the franchise for the main protag,
the stealth was viable,
cities were focused on easier parkour,
naval highly improved,
underwater segments,
collecting chests actually making sense,
Side missions actually having a narrative! I loved how the Templar side quests had cutscenes and actual voice acting
Very different cities, Havana, Kingston and Nassau

This game has done a lot of stuff other AC games failed at and it is the most different AC to date.

The_Kiwi_
07-16-2015, 11:39 PM
Could you elaborate on your opinion of the story plz

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-16-2015, 11:43 PM
@TO_M and Sixkeys, Ah I understand, but it always makes me feel like "you should be this level to continue or its gonna be soooooo hard on you," which was why I never attempted the mission at a low level, but thanks :)

@Fatal, great response :). And yes that does answer my question, so thank you.

And thats probably why I didn't feel like I learn a lot about the time period, since you say it's mostly in the co-op missions. I intend to play those next anyway :p

@pac, OMG good point. Exactly why I was confused about this "assassin" story in the first place.

LoyalACFan
07-16-2015, 11:47 PM
Could you elaborate on your opinion of the story plz

This. You're one of the first I've seen who enjoyed it, I'd be interested to hear your opinion in more detail. Personally I thought it was super bland, I didn't feel any attachment to a single one of the characters, partly because it was all so predictable (Oh noes, Elise dies at the end, just like every single forumer predicted from the first time she was shown).

Xstantin
07-16-2015, 11:53 PM
@TO_M and Sixkeys, Ah I understand, but it always makes me feel like "you should be this level to continue or its gonna be soooooo hard on you," which was why I never attempted the mission at a low level, but thanks :)

you can pretty much run with default sequence 3 Arno it's just gets a bit slower with 50 guards around. I wonder if anyone tried doing available sidestories with bum out of prison Arno before "Graduation" or whatever that mission was called

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-16-2015, 11:55 PM
Could you elaborate on your opinion of the story plz


This. You're one of the first I've seen who enjoyed it, I'd be interested to hear your opinion in more detail. Personally I thought it was super bland, I didn't feel any attachment to a single one of the characters, partly because it was all so predictable (Oh noes, Elise dies at the end, just like every single forumer predicted from the first time she was shown).

I guess I mostly like the story because of the heavy use of symbolism in the story? And I love symbolism :p

The_Kiwi_
07-17-2015, 12:13 AM
I guess I mostly like the story because of the heavy use of symbolism in the story? And I love symbolism :p

What...
What symbolism?
Give your opinions on the characters and the ending and how the story felt to you as an AC story

Fatal-Feit
07-17-2015, 12:17 AM
IIRC, the first play through for Nerdie is usually an impression. --Which is why she's asking questions, etc. She usually needs a 2nd or 3rd run.

steveeire
07-17-2015, 12:47 AM
You forgot to mention one of the biggest things at the end.

You unlock his master Assassin outfit... when previous he was expelled from the Brotherhood and nothing in the story hinted he returned.

I would give the game a 7/10. I honestly don't think anyone is missing much.




I honestly think that AC4 was the best AC game, at least for me.

It had a protag outside the conflict,
wasn't a revenge story,
the voice acting is the best in the franchise for the main protag,
the stealth was viable,
cities were focused on easier parkour,
naval highly improved,
underwater segments,
collecting chests actually making sense,
Side missions actually having a narrative! I loved how the Templar side quests had cutscenes and actual voice acting
Very different cities, Havana, Kingston and Nassau

This game has done a lot of stuff other AC games failed at and it is the most different AC to date.
When you get the Master Assassin outfit, it really feels that there is something missing, perhaps they had intended to fill that with dlc, but due to the rightfully poor reception Unity got they just didn't bother.

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-17-2015, 02:04 AM
What...
What symbolism?
Give your opinions on the characters and the ending and how the story felt to you as an AC story

Sigh... I'll try to keep it brief, even though I kinda explained this already.

Arno = he seemed more like a thief to me, very charismatic, liked him from the beginning, but didn't like the fact that he thought drinking would solve his problems :rolleyes:

Elise = a woman who should have survived :rolleyes:

Bellec = loved him, but I wish he hadn't gone "to the extreme" when he misunderstood Arno :rolleyes:

Germain = the only bad guy that was allowed to speak to Arno after dying :rolleyes:

Happy now?

But yes, I will be doing the story a second time to make sure I understand anything I don't and pick up anything I missed.

Fatal-Feit
07-17-2015, 02:22 AM
you can pretty much run with default sequence 3 Arno it's just gets a bit slower with 50 guards around. I wonder if anyone tried doing available sidestories with bum out of prison Arno before "Graduation" or whatever that mission was called

I heard you can do that. I actually plan to do most of the Paris Stories like that the next play through.

steveeire
07-17-2015, 03:06 AM
Sigh... I'll try to keep it brief, even though I kinda explained this already.

Arno = he seemed more like a thief to me, very charismatic, liked him from the beginning, but didn't like the fact that he thought drinking would solve his problems :rolleyes:

Elise = a woman who should have survived :rolleyes:


In the context of the story Elise surviving would have been out of character for her, she was reckless and chose revenge over everything else. I also don't think Arno thought drinking would solve his problems, he just probably wanted to not think about them anymore, and is also in line with how his character is portrayed in the story.

Fatal-Feit
07-17-2015, 03:25 AM
In the context of the story Elise surviving would have been out of character for her, she was reckless and chose revenge over everything else. I also don't think Arno thought drinking would solve his problems, he just probably wanted to not think about them anymore, and is also in line with how his character is portrayed in the story.

Ehm, no. Elise dying was her sacrificing herself for Arno. In the letter Elise wrote to Arno, she said she was aware of Arno's condition. Arno have lost too much and she had become his only motivation in life. The moment Arno's father died, is the moment Arno's life stopped. Elise was there to fill the void. She became his life. That's why he always get wasted when Elise is gone. Everything he does is for her. Elise could not bare to have Arno spend the rest of his life like that. Her decision to abandon Arno there was out of love, not spite or revenge. She wanted him to move on, to start a new life with a new motivation. --Which he does.

The_Kiwi_
07-17-2015, 03:30 AM
Sigh... I'll try to keep it brief, even though I kinda explained this already.

Arno = he seemed more like a thief to me, very charismatic, liked him from the beginning, but didn't like the fact that he thought drinking would solve his problems :rolleyes:

Elise = a woman who should have survived :rolleyes:

Bellec = loved him, but I wish he hadn't gone "to the extreme" when he misunderstood Arno :rolleyes:

Germain = the only bad guy that was allowed to speak to Arno after dying :rolleyes:

Happy now?

But yes, I will be doing the story a second time to make sure I understand anything I don't and pick up anything I missed.

I hardly think that qualifies as symbolism, those are just character traits

steveeire
07-17-2015, 03:54 AM
Ehm, no. Elise dying was her sacrificing herself for Arno. In the letter Elise wrote to Arno, she said she was aware of Arno's condition. Arno have lost too much and she had become his only motivation in life. The moment Arno's father died, is the moment Arno's life stopped. Elise was there to fill the void. She became his life. That's why he always get wasted when Elise is gone. Everything he does is for her. Elise could not bare to have Arno spend the rest of his life like that. Her decision to abandon Arno there was out of love, not spite or revenge. She wanted him to move on, to start a new life with a new motivation. --Which he does.

No she wasn't she chose revenge against Germain, she acted rashly and got killed, if she had paused for a couple of seconds to free Arno they would have had enough time to catch him, in the letter she stated that he would chose to save her rather than killing Germain, and she reasoned that its because that he has lost so much already and hes afraid to lose her, but she was only partly correct he loved her and that was his main reason for wanting to save her, Elise simply chose her revenge over everything else, yes she loved Arno but she wanted revenge more, where as Arno wanted redemption but even more than that he wanted Elise. No where in the last letter does it state that Elise thinks Arno's only motivation in life is her, and as well in that she had envisioned a future for her and Arno, but she was willing to risk it all for her revenge. She even states in said letter she will chose revenge, and that it is her choice and hers alone, and Arno shouldn't feel responsible.

Xstantin
07-17-2015, 04:10 AM
I heard you can do that. I actually plan to do most of the Paris Stories like that the next play through.

kinda wanna try that myself. Guess I gotta install Unity again

VestigialLlama4
07-17-2015, 04:18 AM
No she wasn't she chose revenge against Germain, she acted rashly and got killed, if she had paused for a couple of seconds to free Arno they would have had enough time to catch him, in the letter she stated that he would chose to save her rather than killing Germain, and she reasoned that its because that he has lost so much already and hes afraid to lose her, but she was only partly correct he loved her and that was his main reason for wanting to save her, Elise simply chose her revenge over everything else, yes she loved Arno but she wanted revenge more, where as Arno wanted redemption but even more than that he wanted Elise. No where in the last letter does it state that Elise thinks Arno's only motivation in life is her, and as well in that she had envisioned a future for her and Arno, but she was willing to risk it all for her revenge. She even state in said let she will chose revenge.

See this is what happens when a woman chooses revenge over her man. God forbid her for having passion and goals independent of a love life with her boyfriend. Ezio and Connor can take revenge on the people who bullied and betrayed them, Altair can lay the smackdown on Robert de Sable, Arno can slowly, sadistically pierce the bad guy's neck after he kills his woman, but any time a woman takes revenge she will be struck by divine lightning and have her corpse turned into a blackened husk.

steveeire
07-17-2015, 04:29 AM
See this is what happens when a woman chooses revenge over her man. God forbid her for having passion and goals independent of a love life with her boyfriend. Ezio and Connor can take revenge on the people who bullied and betrayed them, Altair can lay the smackdown on Robert de Sable, Arno can slowly, sadistically pierce the bad guy's neck after he kills his woman, but any time a woman takes revenge she will be struck by divine lightning and have her corpse turned into a blackened husk.

I never wrote the game, but given the way they wrote her and Arno I don't see how they could have ended it any other way, had she lived it would have lessened her character and went against her motivations and personality, and tbf I never really seen Altair, Ezio or Arno as characters out for revenge, sure Ezio starts out the way, but as he leans more about the Assassins and the bigger conflict with the Templer order he lets revenge go he even lets the person he wants revenge against live, and Arno and Altair are just trying to make up for there mistakes.

I refuse to talk about Connor because that characters motivations are all over the place, and his action rarely sync up with his motivations.

Fatal-Feit
07-17-2015, 04:39 AM
No she wasn't she chose revenge against Germain, she acted rashly and got killed, if she had paused for a couple of seconds to free Arno they would have had enough time to catch him, in the letter she stated that he would chose to save her rather than killing Germain, and she reasoned that its because that he has lost so much already and hes afraid to lose her, but she was only partly correct he loved her and that was his main reason for wanting to save her, Elise simply chose her revenge over everything else, yes she loved Arno but she wanted revenge more, where as Arno wanted redemption but even more than that he wanted Elise.

I'm sorry, I have trouble understanding your point here, but I'll try.

She didn't act rashly, she made her decision and had already made peace with the outcome. Again, in the letter, she said she will make her own choice, decide her own fate. And for Arno to not take on the burden. She wants Arno to accept her independence and to walk his own path. I won't deny Elise is out for revenge, she have said that in an earlier sequence, but her decision to abandon Arno and pursue Germain wasn't with revenge in mind. --It was for her to make a point. Hence, the letter.

I don't understand what your point with Arno. Your run-on sentence isn't cohesive.



No where in the last letter does it state that Elise thinks Arno's only motivation in life is her, and as well in that she had envisioned a future for her and Arno, but she was willing to risk it all for her revenge. She even state in said let she will chose revenge.

''Rather I fear that you have lost so much already that you cannot bare to lose more.'' Elise did not say anything about revenge. She said she will make her own decision. Her choice and her fate is her own, not Arno's. And for him to not take on the burden, given the outcome, and to walk his own path.

VestigialLlama4
07-17-2015, 04:46 AM
I never wrote the game, but given the way they wrote her and Arno I don't see how they could have ended it any other way, had she lived it would have went against her motivations and personality,

Well the only way she could have lived is if she had killed the bad guy and become the next Templar Grandmaster, at which point Arno would have to either convert and become a Templar or break up with her. That is far too mature and confusing for Unity's hypothetical audience so naturally they fridged her. The only reason they featured her in promotion was because of the backlash over their early press.


...and tbf I never really seen Altair, Ezio or Arno as characters out for revenge,

Well naturally they are men, and men even when they are out for revenge are allowed to have shades and degrees of difference and mixed goals. So its not solely about revenge. Altair definitely wants payback against Robert de Sable, he's clearly pumped up to take him down right from the start but he has other goals and learns other lessons along the way. Ezio gets revenge on the people who betrayed his family, he kills Uberto Alberti and all the Pazzi even that dude Vieri, and only after getting revenge does he decide that maybe its not worth it.

Its only in the case of Elise that revenge suddenly becomes "a bad thing" in the AC-verse. Earlier it was there and criticized but not entirely condemned. The fact is UNITY is Elise's story. Elise is the Lady Ezio. She's an aristocrat, adventurous and raised by her Dad to be the next big thing and then decides to take revenge. The entire game is about the Templars. By putting Arno in place of her, the game is essentially a story about a boyfriend trying to save his girlfriend so that she could settle down, marry him and have his babies. And of course when in the end, Elise dies and Germain kills him. Arno, after preaching against revenge all through the game, slowly and sadistically moves that blade into Germain which the gamer is asked to do and share. So naturally Arno can have revenge but not have revenge define him. Its a classic having your cake and eat it to too.

So this whole justification about Elise's motivations and actions is irrelevant.

steveeire
07-17-2015, 05:09 AM
hmm I have never been good a getting my thoughts on to paper but I'll try.


She didn't act rashly, she made her decision and had already made peace with the outcome. Again, in the letter, she said she will make her own choice, decide her own fate. And for Arno to not take on the burden. She wants Arno to accept her independence and to walk his own path. I won't deny Elise is out for revenge, she have said that in an earlier sequence, but her decision to abandon Arno and pursue Germain wasn't with revenge in mind. --It was for her to make a point. Hence, the letter.

No where in the letter is she trying to make a point to Arno, other than she decides her own fate.
Her whole thought process was rash, she has been shown throughout the game as being rash, even when she was a child, and in the final moments of that boss battle yes she was rash, she could have helped Arno, 5 seconds would have had that rubble off him but she chose to chase after Germain leaving Arno to free himself, where as if she had freed Arno they would have had plenty of time to catch and kill Germain together. Neither of them where strong enough to take Germain on there own.



''Rather I fear that you have lost so much already that you cannot bare to lose more.'' Elise did not say anything about revenge. She said she will make her own decision. Her choice and her fate is her own, not Arno's. And for him to not take on the burden, given the outcome, and to walk his own path.
It is clear in the last few sentences of that letter she means to see her revenge through no matter the consequences, yes she never stated the actual word revenge but it is what she means. She was never sacrficing herself for Arno. Hell she writes the letter as if she expects to surive, the letter is only incase she doesn't she clearly had a future planned for her and Arno.

Does that make sense, probably not. I'm so bad at writing.

steveeire
07-17-2015, 05:15 AM
So this whole justification about Elise's motivations and actions is irrelevant.

I'm not justifying anything only stating whats happening.


Well the only way she could have lived is if she had killed the bad guy and become the next Templar Grandmaster
This is not the only way she could have lived, the two of them could have left, and left the whole conflict. But this is besides the point, for her to live you would have to change her and her motivations much like how Ezio changes at the end of AC2, but she doesn't change and dies. Being a woman is irrelevant to the discussion.

VestigialLlama4
07-17-2015, 05:30 AM
This is not the only way she could have lived, the two of them could have she left, and left the whole conflict. But this is besides the point, for her to live you would have to change her and her motivations much like how Ezio changes at the end of AC2, but she doesn't change and dies. Being a woman is irrelevant to the discussion.

The only way the ending aligns with Elise's motivations is if she was a suicide bomber.

steveeire
07-17-2015, 05:35 AM
Ugh

VestigialLlama4
07-17-2015, 05:45 AM
The fact is Unity has a very sexist schema and story, dancing around it won't make it go away.

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-17-2015, 05:47 AM
I hardly think that qualifies as symbolism, those are just character traits

I never said I would explain the symbolism, it would take too long to list :p

I only "clarify" about what I felt about the characters like you asked

steveeire
07-17-2015, 05:52 AM
The fact is Unity has a very sexist schema and story, dancing around it won't make it go away.
Or it could be that you want it to be sexist, so you can ***** about it. Her being a woman is irrelevant, you could switch the sexes of the characters and the motivations would still be exactly the same as would the conclusion.

Xstantin
07-17-2015, 05:54 AM
should've killed them both off in some dramatic way

VestigialLlama4
07-17-2015, 05:58 AM
Or it could be that you want it to be sexist,

Why would I want it to be sexist or anything to be sexist in fact?


Her being a woman is irrelevant, you could switch the sexes of the characters and the motivations would still be exactly the same as would the conclusion.

Well if she was not Elise but Maurice and Arno's Gay Templar Boyfriend, maybe the situation would be different, since "her being a woman is irrelevant" as you say.

Fatal-Feit
07-17-2015, 06:00 AM
No where in the letter is she trying to make a point to Arno, other than she decides her own fate.
Her whole thought process was rash, she has been shown throughout the game as being rash, even when she was a child, and in the final moments of that boss battle yes she was rash, she could have helped Arno, 5 seconds would have had that rubble off him but she chose to chase after Germain leaving Arno to free himself, where as if she had freed Arno they would have had plenty of time to catch and kill Germain together. Neither of them where strong enough to take Germain on there own.

The whole letter is a point. That's why she wrote it. It's why she would have destroyed it if they both survived. :p Elise can be stubborn, and brash, but she's not rash. She's fully aware of her decisions. She understands the outcomes. The letter proves it. Yes, she could have stayed and help Arno, but then nothing would have changed. Arno would still be the same lost man who believes his sole purpose is to watch over her. His path to redemption is never ending. --Only until you sever the cord. That is not the life she wants, for him or her. She wants to show Arno she can make her own fate, her own choice, and will gladly do so without regret. And he should not feel responsible for it. We're really going in circles here. I'm down to agree to disagree if it's the same to you.

Also, German still had the sword so he could have teleported.He did it once, and he could have done it again.


It is clear in the last few sentences of that letter she means to see her revenge through no matter the consequences, yes she never stated the actual word revenge but it is what she means. She was never sacrficing herself for Arno. Hell she writes the letter as if she expects to surive, the letter is only incase she doesn't she clearly had a future planned for her and Arno.

You only write a letter if you believe you may die. That's the ritual, mate. :p If her letter is about revenge, it would have been about revenge. Instead, she speaks about Arno and herself. --Meaning, their relationship is more important than the kill itself. Her point and Arno's freedom is the importance. The last few sentences furthers my point.

But yeah, we're going in circles again. And I understand the struggle of not being able to put your opinions into word. Again, I'm down to agree to disagree.


Or it could be that you want it to be sexist, so you can ***** about it. Her being a woman is irrelevant, you could switch the sexes of the characters and the motivations would still be exactly the same as would the conclusion.

It's best your ignore the posts. Put him on the ignore list like me.

steveeire
07-17-2015, 06:02 AM
Why would I want it to be sexist or anything to be sexist in fact?



Well if she was not Elise but Maurice and Arno's Gay Templar Boyfriend, maybe the situation would be different, since "her being a woman is irrelevant" as you say.
So you want them to change the story and her character because she is a woman, isn't that sexism?






It's best your ignore the posts. Put him on the ignore list like me.
As a rule I don't like to put people on ignore, but I see your point.

and I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.

VestigialLlama4
07-17-2015, 06:10 AM
So you want them to change the story and her character because she is a woman, isn't that sexism?

You are the one who said "her being a woman is irrelevant", I don't think its irrelevant at all. I think its very relevant.

There's no point discussing changes since the story is told, the game is made, released and rightfully laughed out of town. Nothing can be changed here and you know I am not interested in coming up with what the developers should have done. For me developers should make a game they feel passionate about and not listen to fan requests. And Unity is clearly a game they had no interest in since they have not done enough to defend it meaningfully in any real sense, so why bother. I just hope that they do something better than this in the future.

Hans684
07-17-2015, 08:19 AM
Neither of them where strong enough to take Germain on there own.

There was a trivia revealed during marketing that Élise is a better sword fighter than Arno. And I'm not gonna dig for old news, so you'll have to trust me on it.

steveeire
07-17-2015, 10:23 AM
I'll believe you, but still neither was strong enough to win on there own, maybe if he hadn't of had a piece of Eden it would have been a different story but he had a piece of Eden.

Hans684
07-17-2015, 11:13 AM
I'll believe you, but still neither was strong enough to win on there own, maybe if he hadn't of had a piece of Eden it would have been a different story but he had a piece of Eden.

He defiantly has the advantage with the Sword Of Eden but he's still killable, both is good fighters, no doubt about that since he was able to defend himself from Élise. Who herself is an expert at sword fighting.

The_Kiwi_
07-17-2015, 01:05 PM
I never said I would explain the symbolism, it would take too long to list :p

I only "clarify" about what I felt about the characters like you asked

My bad
You still haven't given your thoughts on the actual story itself though
I'll be waiting :rolleyes:

pacmanate
07-17-2015, 07:01 PM
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/41/9d/c1/419dc1a2c9e4a1e1d8339c3fdb37d06c.jpg