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Flydutch
07-02-2004, 06:56 AM
I know of two Vietnam war Carrier incidents where accidently triggered weapons (in these cases Zuni rockets)while sitting on deck in their armed and fueled Aircraft flightdeck and because of the many armed A/C around them, ignited a huge disaster on both USS Enterprise and USS Forrestal. Enterprise: 28 crew dead and 343 injured 15 A/C lost cost 56 milion dollar, Forrestal 134 crew and 21 A/C lost.
I don't know if something simular happened during the second World War, but with all the heavy carrier action it would be a thing to consider to model what happens if a deck loaded with Armed and tanked A/C create a chainreaction explosion because of a accident!

Flydutch
07-02-2004, 06:56 AM
I know of two Vietnam war Carrier incidents where accidently triggered weapons (in these cases Zuni rockets)while sitting on deck in their armed and fueled Aircraft flightdeck and because of the many armed A/C around them, ignited a huge disaster on both USS Enterprise and USS Forrestal. Enterprise: 28 crew dead and 343 injured 15 A/C lost cost 56 milion dollar, Forrestal 134 crew and 21 A/C lost.
I don't know if something simular happened during the second World War, but with all the heavy carrier action it would be a thing to consider to model what happens if a deck loaded with Armed and tanked A/C create a chainreaction explosion because of a accident!

Mr_Nakajima
07-02-2004, 12:58 PM
At Midway three of four Japanese carriers were destroyed when caught with their airgroups re-arming and re-fueling on deck. Japanese damage control was very poor but the quantity of fuel and explosives on deck was such it wouldn't have made much difference. One eye-witness account describes flames coming out of the open bow and stern of a carrier like flames from a blow-torch.

Sakai9745
07-02-2004, 04:12 PM
The attack on the Franklin would be an excellent reference if this is modeled. A attack by a single Judy really did a number on this flattop.

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~killmerdm/021309.jpg


Before dawn on 19 March 1945 Franklin who had maneuvered closer to the Japanese mainland than had any other U.S. carrier during the war, launched a fighter sweep against Honshu and later a strike against shipping in Kobe Harbor. Suddenly, a single enemy plane pierced the cloud cover and made a low level run on the gallant ship to drop two semi-armor piercing bombs. One struck the flight deck centerline, penetrating to the hangar deck, effecting destruction and igniting fires through the second and third decks, and knocking out the combat information center and airplot. The second hit aft, tearing through two decks and fanning fires which triggered ammunition, bombs and rockets.

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~killmerdm/k04760.jpg

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

Flydutch
07-02-2004, 05:11 PM
Thnx,
Where did you get those interesting Info/photos?

Sakai9745
07-02-2004, 10:09 PM
Hey Flydutch. Got it at USS Franklin CV-13 ("Big Ben" The ship That Wouldn't Die). It's located at the following address:

http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~killmerdm/franklin.htm

Cheers,

Al - SF, Calif

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

Jettexas
07-03-2004, 12:25 AM
What follows is quoted from the same memoir by the same veteran that I quoted from in my "first hand account of Japanese attack" thread from a couple of wekks back, and concerns the Franklin.incident...It is word for word as he wrote it with no edits or other diddling .once again I can make no apology for the vernacular of this veteran..



"The next morning the Hickox was scheduled to take on fuel from the Franklin who had joined our task group. I was in the chow line on the port quarter deck, which had taken on the morning combat air patrol and was now spacing armed F6f, Sb2c, and TBF aircraft on the rear of the flight deck.A plane appeared fairly low over the water on her port side. All planes had been recovered at least 30 mins previously so this perturbed me, as the plane appeared to be coming in for a landing. Then it turned broadside, red meatball!
He came in about 50' over the parked fueled ,armed planes and dropped a single bomb into the bunch. (this is in serious disagreement with the officail finding) There was a huge explosion which blew planes and people all over the place, and the explosion penetrated the hanger deck where other planes were being fueled and armed for a second strike.
There was a "whoosh" and blue flames appeared stem to stern as the gasoline fumes ignited.
We were probably 500' from Big Ben when this happened. 10" Tiny Tim rokets began exploding and flying out of the hangar deck in all directions. All ships were ordered to immediately clear the scene until the situation could be assesed. Everybody was at GQ.
The flight deck began to heave skyward repeatedly as explosions on the hanger deck occurred.At the moment the jap bomb hit, all topside personnel jumped overboard...and this is about 70' from the water, but when you are on fire, there is no choice.
The pilots were trapped in thier planes. Some got out and jumped, some never made it..
Our communication officer Lt. S.S. Dorner had a kodak 16mm movie camera and filmed the disaster as viewed from the Hickox.
This film and part of the contents are what you see on television except our film is in color. Really terrifying. THe Santa Fe was ordered alongside on starboard to take off officers, injured and to provide fire support.Capt Gerhes refused to leave his ship . Several disasterous explosions occurred and Santa Fe had no choice but to pull away.
One of our signalmen observed about 22 men trapped on the fantail of Big Ben with one of them signaling "help" by semaphore.He told Capt. Wesson who immediately requested permisison to attempt rescue. Halsey or Mitscher immediately granted it and Hickox raced in to make a remarkable rescue.
One man got cold feet and when a line from the flight deck swung his way ,he siezed it but could not hold on to it. As he dropped , the line made an "E" around his ankle, and unable to swim or extricate himself he drowned.
Capt Wesson with absolute accuracy eased the Hickox's bow just under the 40mm gun sponson,and as you see on TV most of the trapped men dropped the 10 ' onto the bow of Hickox. About 5 missed and went into the water, but we had about 5 swimmers tied to lines and they rescued all of these. About this time the waves did not cooperate and Hickox bow went up and big Bens stern went down.I though Hickox would break in two.
At about 11:00 it was determined that the carrier could possibly be saved. By 13:00 almost all of the fires were out and the ship had one boiler going and could make 5 knots. At this speed a tow was being made ready by the Santa Fe . The smoke had risen to 15,000 ft so the scene of the disaster was well marked for the japs. At about 14:00 three jap planes somehow sneaked in without visual or radar contact. They were so high that they were barely specks in the sky,probably around 30,000 ft. We had been pulling survivors from the water for nearly 5 hours , as well as trying to ease pain and bandage,and our eyes were burning from sea water and the smell of burnt flesh. They dropped three bombs which misssed by several thousand feet forunately. We immeddiately recived a message by flashing light from the big ship..."If you cannot protect me I will sink her myself" I have never forgotten that message.
By 17:00 Big Ben had all fires out and was making 9 knots under her own power. SO the tow was eliminated. We took her to Ulithi and she made it back to the states later. A truly Heroic ship and crew."

Record the memories of veterans of all wars, livng history slips away each day.
Thanks

96th_Redfish

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