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Daanage
07-15-2015, 05:37 PM
I'm curious how you think Assassins Greed: Syndicate will do once it's released, let's hear it! My guess (based on what we've seen so far and the general attitude towards the franchise nowadays) is a less than 2 million copies sold.

VestigialLlama4
07-15-2015, 06:13 PM
As critical as I am of Ubisoft and Rogue-Unity, I certainly don't want their biggest brand to fail commercially and possibly cost many people their jobs and livelihood. I want them to make good games and honor the creative effort of their employees and I wish them luck. The realist in me though will be skpeitcal.

One thing I can say, Syndicate will not be a disaster. People have lowered expecations for this game. Even lower than Black Flag or Revelations which were not hyped titles at the time. A disaster only occurs when measured against the scale of the expectations and the reality.

Synidicate is aiming to be the anti-Unity, and most likely it will be better than Rogue and if its really good, it will be Revelations-to-Brotherhood level, if it is truly exceptional and brilliant it will be up there with the numbered titles - AC1, AC2, AC3 and AC4:Black Flag. So its not primed for disaster at all. People expect a safe, conventional game with no surprises, its up to Ubisoft to show they can surprise us and do something new and unique.

Unity was a disaster (critically and fan-reaction not in terms of sales) because people believed it would be the greatest AC game, that it would have the best story, best city, best everything and it pretty much failed on every concievable level.

BananaBlighter
07-15-2015, 06:23 PM
I think it won't be a disaster at all. They're definitely going differently with their marketing campaign which is what I like. Unity was hated so much besides the bugs, because it was expected to be incredible having been over-hyped way too much. Now with Syndicate we're getting tonnes of early gameplay instead of 1000 CGI trailers, so we can get a feel of the mechanics and in-game city. People say there's nothing innovative, which certainly seems to be the case right now, though we haven't really been shown much to be honest, just some genuine gameplay of the same mission over and over. I'm betting, that they've got something more in depth up their sleeve and it's all part of their new marketing campaign that looks at what Unity did wrong and does the opposite. That's kind of what this game is. The opposite of Unity. Took away all the unsuccessful mechanics instead of improving them, and to be hnoest, Ubi are playing it super safe from what we've seen.

dimbismp
07-15-2015, 06:53 PM
...
I completely agree with you.IMO Unity didn't fail because of the mechanics,the story,the downgrade etc...It failed because it was hyped as the "most authentic AC ever,featuring innovating gameplay,breathtaking story etc".That way,there was no way to satisfy everyone.For example,i felt really disappointed by the story,others felt disappointed by the gameplay etc,and summing all this up we get this failure.Back on topic though:
I believe that right now the fate of ACS is completely uncertain for us.It is true that Ubi is careful and tries not to hype the game,which in addition with some bad first signs result in really low expectations:the lowest i have seen as an AC fan.So,right now,it can go to many directions:
-The game is really disappointing
In this situation the game is a poor man's ACU.We already have seen some signs of gameplay downgrade(for example less interiors,reused animations,no blood etc).Add to this downgraded version ofACU a boring and predictable story,the "Ubi-style" repetitive and bland side missions,the glitchy combat and some bad game design,and the result is the undoubtedly worst AC of all time.IMO if this happens,this will be the last nail of the coffin for the franchise(definitely for me)
Chance of happening:25%
-The game fixes ACU's shortcomings,but it also "breaks" the good things+some innovations are nice some not so nice
Wow big title :p .In this case ACS will be considered as "just like another AC",pretty much like Rogue(sorry Rogue fans).For example,IF ACS has an intriguing story,plus a decent MD story,plus more fun side missions,plus no initiates BS,plus more polished mechanics but also completely ruins stealth design,world detail and in the meanwhile some innovations are fun(eg rope launcher),some are meh(eg gangs,vehicles) and some are bad(eg combat),THEN the game will be again a controversy and will quickly be forgotten.
Chance of happening:55%

-The game is a true improvement from ACU and a solid addition to he franchise
In other words,ACS completely fixes all Unity's mistakes,has a nice story and its additions are fun mostly,pleasing the majority of fans(aka AC4BF)
Chances of happening:19%

-The game reimagines/resurrects the franchise
The game is absolutely phenomenal,is GOTY contender,reinspires the old fans,brings hope to the fanbase,is (unofficially) the best AC evaaaar etc etc
Chance of happening:1%


In conclusion,the game will most likely be just another AC,with decent chances for something more,but also a real possibility for total failure.We will only be able to know in release though.For now,we can only wait

VestigialLlama4
07-15-2015, 07:27 PM
The main thing about AC is that they need to do something ambitious again. I mean AC3 had natural environments, rocks, trees, naval, new combat, new features. All the AC games have been cannibalizing its assets essentially and there's not been a single game that really leapt over it the way it leapt over AC2.

In AC2, the natural environments and countryside were still Gamecube-PS2 quality (actually less than that, compare it to say, Snake Eater on PS2), AC3 gave us an actual forest and weather, animation quality thats a quantum-leap. And also AC3 has a Cast of Snowflakes, probably the game with the most number of unique NPCs and character designs then any AC game before and after.

There has to be a game that builds on that and surpasses or at least fulfills the great potential there and until that happens, AC will die, they will just churn out repetitive annual titles that are replacable, where you no longer have a steady system of Numbered Release followed by two years of Annualized Titles while people wait for next numbered game. Now its all eggs in one basket so every new AC game that comes next year will have to be the make-and-break game.

dimbismp
07-15-2015, 07:38 PM
The main thing about AC is that they need to do something ambitious again. I mean AC3 had natural environments, rocks, trees, naval, new combat, new features. All the AC games have been cannibalizing its assets essentially and there's not been a single game that really leapt over it the way it leapt over AC2.

In AC2, the natural environments and countryside were still Gamecube-PS2 quality (actually less than that, compare it to say, Snake Eater on PS2), AC3 gave us an actual forest and weather, animation quality thats a quantum-leap. And also AC3 has a Cast of Snowflakes, probably the game with the most number of unique NPCs and character designs then any AC game before and after.

There has to be a game that builds on that and surpasses or at least fulfills the great potential there and until that happens, AC will die, they will just churn out repetitive annual titles that are replacable, where you no longer have a steady system of Numbered Release followed by two years of Annualized Titles while people wait for next numbered game. Now its all eggs in one basket so every new AC game that comes next year will have to be the make-and-break game.
Well,i know that you don't agree but ACU was innovative.For example,we got 1:1 buildings,including huge landmarks,we got some basic stealth mechanics after like 6 games for god's sake(eg crouch),we got customisation which was cool and asked by the fans,we got (at they tried) some open ended missions...
It is not like AC3 got everything right or that it innovated it every aspect.I agree that the tree and rock climbing was cool,the forrests were beatiful,AC3 also introduced naval and hunting.But although the mechanics themselves were pretty good,they felt pointless after a while...
But,we are getting off topic.I am going to create a new thread about this debate

SixKeys
07-15-2015, 07:44 PM
I dunno, I never thought Unity was as hyped as AC3. Sure, it was the first next-gen AC which contributed a lot to the hype, but I disagree that it was advertised as having "innovative gameplay and a breathtaking story". Footage of it leaked online early (footage that made the game look bad), so Ubi was forced to release a short teaser trailer and people did the rest of the hyping themselves. The gameplay wasn't advertised as innovative so much as a "return to basics". The story was never advertised as being as epic in scope as AC2 or AC3. It was always said to be a love story between an assassin and a Templar, a premise that already scales things down to a much more personal level. It was always said that the Revolution was more of a historical backdrop to Arno's personal struggles than the focus. The only real curveball thrown was when Ubi released footage of the Eiffel Tower rift, which suddenly made the game look like it was gonna be huge and epic. From a marketing perspective it was a brilliant move because I think that trailer sold the game for a lot of people who were still on the fence, but it didn't do the actual game any favors by making it look bigger and deeper than it really was.

dimbismp
07-15-2015, 07:57 PM
I dunno, I never thought Unity was as hyped as AC3. Sure, it was the first next-gen AC which contributed a lot to the hype, but I disagree that it was advertised as having "innovative gameplay and a breathtaking story". Footage of it leaked online early (footage that made the game look bad), so Ubi was forced to release a short teaser trailer and people did the rest of the hyping themselves. The gameplay wasn't advertised as innovative so much as a "return to basics". The story was never advertised as being as epic in scope as AC2 or AC3. It was always said to be a love story between an assassin and a Templar, a premise that already scales things down to a much more personal level. It was always said that the Revolution was more of a historical backdrop to Arno's personal struggles than the focus. The only real curveball thrown was when Ubi released footage of the Eiffel Tower rift, which suddenly made the game look like it was gonna be huge and epic. From a marketing perspective it was a brilliant move because I think that trailer sold the game for a lot of people who were still on the fence, but it didn't do the actual game any favors by making it look bigger and deeper than it really was.
Regarding the story.i completely disagree.
From the "cast trailer": " [...]through his association with the Brotherhood he becomes a part of a much larger fight,the FrenchRev.,the fight of the people to overthrow their opressive gonvernment.Then he slowly starts to realise that's much more at stake than his own personal goals"
"(reffering to Robespierre)I don't think that he was drunk on power,but he was drunk on something"

Xstantin
07-15-2015, 08:04 PM
I think it'll be a game which will try to "fix" ACU but still will add some useless clutter (like dumb gang members following you around).
- People will complain about horses and driving
- 'Not enough Evie' crowd/'she's just there to shut people up', etc, etc.
- People hyping modern day development will be dissapointed again
- Story will be okayish
- Safe game at best

I'm pessimistic though
EDIT: and I hope there won't be another stupid companion app crap-lock

SixKeys
07-15-2015, 08:14 PM
Regarding the story.i completely disagree.
From the "cast trailer": " [...]through his association with the Brotherhood he becomes a part of a much larger fight,the FrenchRev.,the fight of the people to overthrow their opressive gonvernment.Then he slowly starts to realise that's much more at stake than his own personal goals"
"(reffering to Robespierre)I don't think that he was drunk on power,but he was drunk on something"

Okay, I never saw that trailer. That quote is definitely overselling the story. I don't think most of the marketing material was, though.

dimbismp
07-15-2015, 08:18 PM
Okay, I never saw that trailer. That quote is definitely overselling the story. I don't think most of the marketing material was, though.
True
I feel that the trailers were 100% honest regarding gameplay

Namikaze_17
07-15-2015, 08:19 PM
I want to say it'll be alright, but I'll get shot Lincoln-style if I say such things.

Assassin_M
07-15-2015, 08:25 PM
"Hey, guys lets talk about how something I have no interest in anymore will fail hahahaha"

How useless.

VestigialLlama4
07-15-2015, 08:51 PM
Okay, I never saw that trailer. That quote is definitely overselling the story. I don't think most of the marketing material was, though.

Excuse me, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ohFulrJKhI

This ISN'T overselling the story? Arno and Assassins storming the Bastille, throwing victims to the people to do with as they pleased, the famous song by rising pop-star about Everyone Wants to Rule the World? Yes, I can see the French Revolution being a minor inconsequential squint-and-you'll-miss-it thing in the background here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9UbtVWTr2c

Also this Marquis de Buillon trailer which again had the same thing, and even introduces the see-the-last-thoughts gimmick by having you see a decapitated aristo's vision? They sold the game as essentially Assassins being on the side of the Revolutionaries where the actual game turned out to be royalist right-wing trash. Then there's that Rob Zombie animated cartoon (a stupid gimmick they introduced again with Syndicate). The Elise trailer was likewise overselling and exaggerating her importance (undoubtedly put in because of the "women are too hard to animate" crack).


Well,i know that you don't agree but ACU was innovative.

My point is can it be said that UNITY is as much a leap over AC3 as AC3 was over AC2? That is my point and its irrefutable. Whatever petty advances made in UNITY is on the same level as Revelations and Brotherhood over AC2. Its no different than if they remade AC1 or AC2 for Next-Gen. 1:1 interiors and stuff like that is logical developments for open-world gaming, its not anything especially new to the series and theme.

SixKeys
07-15-2015, 08:56 PM
Excuse me, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ohFulrJKhI

This ISN'T overselling the story? Arno and Assassins storming the Bastille, throwing victims to the people to do with as they pleased, the famous song by rising pop-star about Everyone Wants to Rule the World? Yes, I can see the French Revolution being a minor inconsequential squint-and-you'll-miss-it thing in the background here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9UbtVWTr2c


I never said it was blink-and-you'll miss it, I said it wasn't the main focus. Everything we saw in that trailer is represented in the final game. Co-op, brotherhood, working together, that's the narrative being told in that trailer.

I wasn't familiar with Lorde before the trailer, so I didn't really give a rat's *** about how famous she was or wasn't. Her being part of the marketing had nothing to do with the story. They used Puff Daddy for one AC3 trailer, so it's not like it's the first time.

Shahkulu101
07-15-2015, 08:58 PM
Lol what did they use Puff Daddy for?

dimbismp
07-15-2015, 08:59 PM
Excuse me, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ohFulrJKhIMy point is can it be said that UNITY is as much a leap over AC3 as AC3 was over AC2? That is my point and its irrefutable. Whatever petty advances made in UNITY is on the same level as Revelations and Brotherhood over AC2. Its no different than if they remade AC1 or AC2 for Next-Gen. 1:1 interiors and stuff like that is logical developments for open-world gaming, its not anything especially new to the series and theme.
-Well,as the years pass it is difficult o make many innovations.For example,the leap between PS2 and PS3 was much bigger than the leap between PS3 and PS4.Also,as the annualization still exists,every passing year it more and more difficult to innovate.
-Well,Unity was advertised as a "reboot".It is only logical that it would be an next gen version of AC1 and AC2.This was actually one of the main selling points.I liked the direction of Unity because it tried to make some changes that should have been made years ago.Also,ACB and ACR were direct sequels of AC2,you can easily spot it.If you compare ACU with AC3/AC4/ACRo you can see many changes,especially about stealth
-I can also say that tree and rock climbing was a logical step for a game heavily revolving parkour.

SixKeys
07-15-2015, 09:02 PM
Lol what did they use Puff Daddy for?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fcjlVvbI8A

SofaJockey
07-15-2015, 09:08 PM
The OP assumes a disaster.

With all the marketing being thrown at it, a disaster is unlikely, though how much of a success it will be, remains to be seen.
Folk could have asked exactly the same question after the mediocre ACIII and most were pleased with Black Flag to follow.

The same is likely to happen with Syndicate,
if it is better than Unity, that would be a plus wouldn't it.

I enjoyed the gameplay when I had a 20 min demo earlier in the summer,
so I'm feeling pretty up beat.

VestigialLlama4
07-15-2015, 09:09 PM
Lol what did they use Puff Daddy for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik_ywJbHW2o

Its the least Puff Daddy sounding song (and actually the singer Skylar whose refrain is in the song), technicalities, this largely doesn't matter to SixKeys.


-I can also say that tree and rock climbing was a logical step for a game heavily revolving parkour.

Really, then how come nobody expected it or predicted it before AC3 came out? Before AC3, the idea was cities, monuments and historical tourism and eventually horse-riding and carriages. AC3 removed monuments and cities out of the equation for an era nobody had seen and which the developers did not have exact visual and cultural references for.

Before Unity, almost every other post talked about how cool it would be if they made the cities bigger, and detailed and interiors-and-exteriors moving in-and-out, like how Castel Sant'Angelo in Brotherhood (which is the first game that introduced that) should be in everygame or how Hagia Sophia is not as grand and majestic as it should be in revelations. They also talked about more open assassinations, their wretched fetish for the crouch button in a series built around its irrelevance and lack of purpose and then in comes fan-demand user-generated-content i.e. UNITY

Shahkulu101
07-15-2015, 09:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fcjlVvbI8A

Fairly good trailer actually.

Reminds me of the ultimate disappointment.

pacmanate
07-15-2015, 09:17 PM
Depends on the Story. The mechanics are there for a good game.

SixKeys
07-15-2015, 09:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik_ywJbHW2o

Its the least Puff Daddy sounding song (and actually the singer Skylar whose refrain is in the song), technicalities, this largely doesn't matter to SixKeys.


http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq135/muntedewok/backpedal.jpg

:rolleyes:

SixKeys
07-15-2015, 09:36 PM
Depends on the Story. The mechanics are there for a good game.

Yeah, but those games have already been made. They're called AC Brotherhood and Arkham City.

Zafar1981
07-15-2015, 09:41 PM
I personally believe it will do fine thought I am not buying the game on very first day like before. Because now I need a break as playing an assassin game every year since 2009. In my opinion it will easily reach 6 million sale without any problem.

dimbismp
07-15-2015, 09:41 PM
Really, then how come nobody expected it or predicted it before AC3 came out? Before AC3, the idea was cities, monuments and historical tourism and eventually horse-riding and carriages. AC3 removed monuments and cities out of the equation for an era nobody had seen and which the developers did not have exact visual and cultural references for.

Well come on!Nobody ever said that the series would only feature big cities.In fact,if they wanted to keep things fresh,the next logical step would be a rural environment.And because parkour is a core pillar,it is completely normal that we would get tree climbing.You are acting like they made the greatest innovation in games history

Assassin_M
07-15-2015, 09:51 PM
You are acting like they made the greatest innovation in games history
That's all hindsight talking. When you get a time machine, show me people suggesting what AC III introduced before AC III, I'll believe you. Thing is, I was there. I'v been here through a lot of stuff. The only things constantly asked for were an East Asian setting, scrapping modern day storyline and WW II. No one ever suggested what AC III brought forward. AC III introduced what a WHOLE game was based on.

VestigialLlama4
07-15-2015, 10:00 PM
Well come on!Nobody ever said that the series would only feature big cities.In fact,if they wanted to keep things fresh,the next logical step would be a rural environment.And because parkour is a core pillar,it is completely normal that we would get tree climbing.You are acting like they made the greatest innovation in games history

Well I didn't see anyone predict it here before the game came out. Nobody predicted AC3's setting until the game came out in fact. And in any case I was discussing innovations in terms of franchise, nobody's talking about gaming history here.

Unity did not expand significantly in any pillar over any earlier title, in terms of stuff that's there in Unity that is not there in earlier games:
-- Open Assassination missions were there in AC1 and some missions in later games.
-- Interiors and Exteriors were there in Castel Sant'Angelo in Brotherhood, and also the Pantheon Assassination of that guard earlier.
-- Alarm Bells and Sniper archetypes in stealth rooms was there in Black Flag (infact a lot of the stealth is from Black Flag and not AC1)
-- The day-glow X-Ray Eagle Vision comes from Black Flag too.
-- Collectibles and Puzzles mostly comes from earlier games.

About the chief innovations I can think of is customization options, although none of it serves an in-story purpose where-by dressing as a peasant or a nobleman blends better in a certain area. Its purely cosmetic and arcade. The earlier games had alternative outfits that at least tended to be more period fitting and so attractive to collect in place of the Assassin outfit, dressing as Brutus or getting a certain dye made it more immersive into the environment and it was something that gamers did naturally rather than told to do so.

UNITY's idea of difficulty by the way is incredibly reactionary, they take away player abilities rather than give you tougher enemies. So you can't Double Assassinate and so on, until you do the Fetch Quest so you can see Arno's needlessly elaborate animation to kill two men in a really slow way.

So what else is truly new to UNITY that's not there before?

I-Like-Pie45
07-15-2015, 10:02 PM
you are all big jabroni. this game will be real legend iron sheik class. anyone say otherwise is nothing but certified 100% jabroni

steveeire
07-16-2015, 01:46 AM
If Ubisoft stick to the trend it has set for itself than this game will be awesome.

king-hailz
07-16-2015, 02:48 AM
I agree. Most people won't pre order and those who don't will see the reviews. Then it depends. I agree with your estimate and I think it should be less to wake ubisoft up. Because at the end of the day all they care for is money. And lack of money might push them to make better quality. Because loads of money is making them lazy.

Voidrek
07-16-2015, 02:56 AM
Well, so far I haven't really liked what I have seen from Syndicate. I have generally enjoyed all the AC games thus far, though I am kind of sad to see what has become of the modern day sections. I am going to write down some of my thoughts on Unity and then follow it up with my thoughts on what I have seen of Syndicate so far.

Just to give an idea of where I am at regarding AC games, I took a hiatus from AC for a while and just started playing ACU recently. It's the first AC game I have played since Black Flag, which I played when it first came out. So the fact that I haven't played an AC game for a while might be why I am actually enjoying ACU quite a bit. I find the slower paced combat kind of refreshing and the fact that you can't insta-kill 25 enemies in a row is welcome in my eyes. I love the customization options and all the different weapons you can equip. You definitely feel a sense of progression when you buy new armor/weapons, making combat a lot more manageable in the harder sections of the city. As usual, the visuals and audio are top-notch and the kill animations are the best they have ever been. The city itself is very impressive, as well.

Of course, there are definite downsides to ACU. While the customization options are awesome, the assassin himself, Arno, is really lame, in my opinion. The story seems very lackluster and the modern day is practically non-existent. Many of the side missions seem kind of half-assed, unfortunately. I wish we could get more side content like The Truth puzzles to help develop the modern day connection or something like the Cristina missions to help develop the protagonist. Basically, I feel like the dudes who create these amazing looking ancient cities are being let down by the guys who come up with the content to fill them up. It's really disappointing. But still, I have generally enjoyed what I have played from Unity. It probably has my favorite combat and parkour from the entire series, which isn't really saying much, to be honest, lol.

This brings me to Syndicate. What is with the way the combat looks in this game? I am hoping it is still being smoothed out, but the combat animations look disjointed and jumpy. How can we go from the wide array of smooth kill animations of Unity to what we have seen thus far from ACS? Kind of strange. All we have really seen thus far was Jacob and his Rooks in hand to hand combat with a bunch of different thugs, so maybe combat will be more diverse than what we have seen. But anyway, I am really hoping they smooth out the animations at least. They look terrible so far.

Also, from what I understand, customization is going to be way more limited than Unity. That kind of sucks. I kind of liked unlocking different gear and weapons. Speaking of weapons, I think we will also have a limited selection to choose from. Too early to tell, though. Here's hoping we get at least a decent amount of different things to choose from.

The rope launcher looks really silly when you go from building to building. The way it attaches itself just looks strange, lol. But who knows, could be a cool mechanic to have around.

So yeah, I am not liking the lack of overall polish I am seeing from ACS so far. But I guess polishing things up is what they will be doing from now until the game releases, so my fears may be misguided. I am really hoping for a better story from ACS as compared to ACU and hoping that Evie is not just an afterthought.

Now I need to debate if I should wait to purchase ACS regardless because I seemed to have dodged the glitch-ridden mess that was the initial launch of ACU on the PC. I was a fan of the MP from the older titles and it's exclusion was the main reason I decided to buy ACU later on at a lower price. I may do the same for ACS, but we will see, I guess.

Sorry for the long post that was as much about ACU as ACS, lol. Oh, and for anyone from Ubisoft reading these forums...For Honor looks freaking amazing. Can't wait.

Daanage
07-16-2015, 03:21 AM
"Hey, guys lets talk about how something I have no interest in anymore will fail hahahaha"

How useless.

Im still interested in assassins creed, just not in something as safe and boring as syndicate. If it fails, Ubi have to get off their lazy asses and actually try to make the games amazing again like a few years back. Go back like a 1000 years or maybe even more. Come up with a new protagonist who's not another brash ezio clone. That's what this franchise needs, less milking and more risk-taking. Or do you prefer playing the same game year after year in a different color-scheme, with the same generic side-content and thousands of collectibles?

steveeire
07-16-2015, 03:30 AM
Why is it safe and boring again?

Fatal-Feit
07-16-2015, 03:41 AM
The same disaster that was Black Flag.

Daanage
07-16-2015, 04:04 AM
Why is it safe and boring again?
many reasons, but mostly due to a lack of incestuous relationships
am i rite pie45

Altair1789
07-16-2015, 04:32 AM
-The game reimagines/resurrects the franchise
The game is absolutely phenomenal,is GOTY contender,reinspires the old fans,brings hope to the fanbase,is (unofficially) the best AC evaaaar etc etc
Chance of happening:1%

The game will never be resurrected until they drop annualization and deliver a well made game.

For the limits that Syndicate had (game devs not allowed to set their own deadlines), it looks pretty good. I think it'll come up just short of being an amazing game. I think under appreciation of certain features will destroy the game. The night time looks just like it did in Unity, which really hurts something I was looking forward to. A Victorian London game should pay a lot of attention to night time and rain. I also think that if they cared less about what fans think they'd make the best game ever. The grappling hook is a step in the right direction

LoyalACFan
07-16-2015, 06:31 AM
Why is it safe and boring again?

Because it's essentially just copy/pasting Unity's mechanics and animations into a new location. They aren't even trying to hide it. The only genuinely new features are open-world carriage driving and the zipline launcher thingy. Can't say I'm exactly pumped for features that look to nerf the one single thing that makes AC unique; the parkour.


But OT, I don't think it will be some huge disastrous SNAFU moment that kills the franchise forever. It won't get the fans reaching for torches and pitchforks. It'll just be released to a collective "meh" from everyone who isn't a diehard AC follower. The optimist in me says it'll give them some time to lick their wounds and come back in 2016 with something completely fresh and innovative, but deep down I kinda feel that all new AC's from here on out are going to be built on the backbone of Unity. I think the series really has hit the same point Call of Duty hit a few years ago; public enthusiasm for it is waning, but sales are still relatively good, so they'll just release a string of tepid products to maximize profits while not really taking any risks. Stop innovating, keep selling.

VestigialLlama4
07-16-2015, 06:32 AM
The game will never be resurrected until they drop annualization and deliver a well made game.

For the limits that Syndicate had (game devs not allowed to set their own deadlines), it looks pretty good. I think it'll come up just short of being an amazing game. I think under appreciation of certain features will destroy the game. The night time looks just like it did in Unity, which really hurts something I was looking forward to. A Victorian London game should pay a lot of attention to night time and rain. I also think that if they cared less about what fans think they'd make the best game ever. The grappling hook is a step in the right direction

You had me till "grappling hook is a step in the right direction".

To me a grappling hook makes the game permanently a non-historical game. The Hidden Blade in the Crusades was out-there but it wasn't a superweapon, it was just a knife. Ezio's Hidden Gun was out-there but it only had limited use in AC2 and later games introduced gun-weilding archetypes so it became less of an advantage. But introducing a device that is non-existent in the 21st Century leave alone the Victorian era is seriously jumping the shark. Batman can grapple because he's a superhero but a street thug walking with a grappling hook device in Victorian London is dumb and moronic.

Grappling Hooks can best be compared to the Hookblade/Zipline/Parachute combo in Revelations and that was pretty arcade-y too but in that game, the traversal involved climbing and shifting across topography and different heights, so it still involved the Assassin to do legwork and put in effort. And in any case stuff like ziplining, climbing by hook on buildings and parachuting is something humans can do.

Syndicate takes that away with wrist-propelled grappling and officially makes Assassins superhuman, since G-force, wrist-pressure and the like does not exist anymore.

steveeire
07-16-2015, 12:42 PM
Because it's essentially just copy/pasting Unity's mechanics and animations into a new location. They aren't even trying to hide it. The only genuinely new features are open-world carriage driving and the zipline launcher thingy. Can't say I'm exactly pumped for features that look to nerf the one single thing that makes AC unique; the parkour.


But OT, I don't think it will be some huge disastrous SNAFU moment that kills the franchise forever. It won't get the fans reaching for torches and pitchforks. It'll just be released to a collective "meh" from everyone who isn't a diehard AC follower. The optimist in me says it'll give them some time to lick their wounds and come back in 2016 with something completely fresh and innovative, but deep down I kinda feel that all new AC's from here on out are going to be built on the backbone of Unity. I think the series really has hit the same point Call of Duty hit a few years ago; public enthusiasm for it is waning, but sales are still relatively good, so they'll just release a string of tepid products to maximize profits while not really taking any risks. Stop innovating, keep selling.

There is nothing wrong with perfected game mechanics as long as we get a decent story to go along with them, perfect example is AC3 and Black Flag, Black Flag had mostly the same game mechanics but perfected and it had characters that where superior than the ones in AC3 and you actually cared what happened to them, so we ended up with a far better game, AC1 and AC2 is another example of this but I suppose AC1 was never as bad as AC3 was.

LoyalACFan
07-16-2015, 12:51 PM
There is nothing wrong with perfected game mechanics as long as we get a decent story to go along with them, perfect example is AC3 and Black Flag, Black Flag had mostly the same game mechanics but perfected and it had characters that where superior than the ones in AC3 and you actually cared what happened to them, so we ended up with a far better game, AC1 and AC2 is another example of this but I suppose AC1 was never as bad as AC3 was.

But nothing seems to indicate that they've been "perfected," or even improved. Stealth looks literally the exact same, with the exception of the stupid launcher thing. And hell, the combat actually looks WORSE.

AC4 was a different beast, as it took one of AC3's major features (naval combat) and made huge strides forward with its implementation by speeding it up, setting it in an open-world environment, and framing it as a central and systemic gameplay loop. Whereas Syndicate just looks like a redo of Unity with some ancillary and cosmetic changes, and a few new (awkward and off-putting, IMO) new things like carriages and grapnel guns tacked on. I don't see "perfected" written anywhere on it. Sure, the story and assassinations could be superb, but there's no evidence one way or another yet, so I frankly have very little to be optimistic about.

steveeire
07-16-2015, 01:01 PM
But nothing seems to indicate that they've been "perfected," or even improved. Stealth looks literally the exact same, with the exception of the stupid launcher thing. And hell, the combat actually looks WORSE.

AC4 was a different beast, as it took one of AC3's major features (naval combat) and made huge strides forward with its implementation by speeding it up, setting it in an open-world environment, and framing it as a central and systemic gameplay loop. Whereas Syndicate just looks like a redo of Unity with some ancillary and cosmetic changes, and a few new (awkward and off-putting, IMO) new things like carriages and grapnel guns tacked on. I don't see "perfected" written anywhere on it. Sure, the story and assassinations could be superb, but there's no evidence one way or another yet, so I frankly have very little to be optimistic about.

You could be right, but I remember feeling exactly the same about Black Flag, but as you said they took what I thought was one of the worst parts of AC3 the naval combat and made it fun, but my point was that with AC Ubisoft has set a trend where they release one glitchy mess of a game or a game with not well thought out mechanics then they follow it up with a game with those mechanics perfected, usually that is, this game could end up a pile of crap, I for one will be waiting for reviews of the game and till it drops in price no matter how good of a review it gets. Ubisoft no longer deservers my preorder.

LoyalACFan
07-16-2015, 01:10 PM
You could be right, but I remember feeling exactly the same about Black Flag, but as you said they took what I thought was one of the worst parts of AC3 the naval combat and made it fun, but my point was that with AC Ubisoft has set a trend where they release one glitchy mess of a game or a game with not well thought out mechanics then they follow it up with a game with those mechanics perfected, usually that is, this game could end up a pile of crap, I for one will be waiting for reviews of the game and till it drops in price no matter how good of a review it gets. Ubisoft no longer deservers my preorder.

See, I always thought Black Flag looked considerably improved, even though I wasn't hyped for it. Syndicate actually looks like a step backward in many regards, and it isn't even being developed by the flagship Montreal studio, so I'm super leery of it right now. So yeah, for sure no preorder on my end. I'll read reviews and watch some independent gameplay post-launch, and I genuinely hope it blows my mind, but it'll have to do some serious sh*t to pull that off.

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-16-2015, 02:33 PM
I hoping it doesnt become a disaster.

It seems Ubisoft has recognized their mistakes in the past and will hopefully do what they can to make sure it doesnt happen in the future.

I wish any game that comes out to be great, but to avoid disappointment, I never hype for it.

My mantra: Expect the worst and get the best, rather than the other way around, and you'll never end up disappointed.

VoXngola
07-16-2015, 04:45 PM
I don't know how the game will turn out to be. So far, the stuff they've shown us hasn't convinced me in the slightest. It looks pretty bare bones to me.
However, we can never know until the very end. Maybe it turns out to be amazing, we don't know. We can't.

I personally think that it will be the worst selling mainline AC game. It should still make a profit for Ubisoft, but not as much as other main AC games I'm sure. A lot of people are just sick and tired of hearing the game's name every year. Atleast, that's my impression. Be it because of franchise fatigue, be it because of the not so great demo they've shown, or Unity or just all of these.

I firmly believe that AC only ever has a change of genuinely hyping people up if they announce a game set in Feudal Japan. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, it's the #1 setting for a lot of people out there. I've seen so many people saying the same things "Man I don't care about AC but if they made on set in FJ I'd definitely buy it/interested in it.".

Or Syndicate turns out to be so great that whatever's next hypes up people too. But FJ is definitely their best shot at reaching a massive audience. I always believed that Ubi would use FJ when AC reaches a point where it's just selling badly and getting negative/not so great reviews left and right be it from journalists or fans. If things go on like this, we'll reach that point soon.

LoyalACFan
07-16-2015, 09:35 PM
I firmly believe that AC only ever has a change of genuinely hyping people up if they announce a game set in Feudal Japan. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, it's the #1 setting for a lot of people out there. I've seen so many people saying the same things "Man I don't care about AC but if they made on set in FJ I'd definitely buy it/interested in it.".

Japan or something else totally foreign to what's been done before. They've done the colonial Americas and early modern Europe to death, and while there are still plenty of unplumbed depths to be potentially capitalized on in both of those settings, it would help the series' chronic fatigue tremendously to diverge from that pattern. Japan is a terrific example, but I think other settings would do the trick as well, i.e. Egypt, India, China, Ancient Greece/Rome, etc.

SixKeys
07-16-2015, 11:48 PM
See, I always thought Black Flag looked considerably improved, even though I wasn't hyped for it. Syndicate actually looks like a step backward in many regards, and it isn't even being developed by the flagship Montreal studio, so I'm super leery of it right now. So yeah, for sure no preorder on my end. I'll read reviews and watch some independent gameplay post-launch, and I genuinely hope it blows my mind, but it'll have to do some serious sh*t to pull that off.

^ This. Right now, Syndicate just looks cheap and that's what worries me most. Even AC4 looked graphically good and gameplay was polished, even though the underlying mechanics were basically a copy-paste of AC3. AC4 felt like there was effort behind it, like they really wanted to impress people. Syndicate feels so middle-of-the-road even for yearly release standards. They've straight up cut down a lot of features from Unity without even bothering to justify it. At least when Unity got rid of popular mechanics like whistling, they justified it by saying they wanted to make stealth more challenging. ACS, judging by what I've seen and played, has no ambition. Like their main priority is just to make a game with stable performance and nothing more. It's not the AC4 to AC3, it's more like a next-gen Rogue. An inbetween game with no ambitions, no innovation and cheap production values. (How else to explain those terrible combat animations and cutting down on interiors?)

Xstantin
07-16-2015, 11:56 PM
ACS, judging by what I've seen and played, has no ambition.
but but gangs and so many ways to ride carriages around where possibilities are endless :rolleyes: (like four of them total)

dimbismp
07-17-2015, 12:07 AM
^ This. Right now, Syndicate just looks cheap and that's what worries me most. Even AC4 looked graphically good and gameplay was polished, even though the underlying mechanics were basically a copy-paste of AC3. AC4 felt like there was effort behind it, like they really wanted to impress people. Syndicate feels so middle-of-the-road even for yearly release standards. They've straight up cut down a lot of features from Unity without even bothering to justify it. At least when Unity got rid of popular mechanics like whistling, they justified it by saying they wanted to make stealth more challenging. ACS, judging by what I've seen and played, has no ambition. Like their main priority is just to make a game with stable performance and nothing more. It's not the AC4 to AC3, it's more like a next-gen Rogue. An inbetween game with no ambitions, no innovation and cheap production values. (How else to explain those terrible combat animations and cutting down on interiors?)
Damn,you are right....
I haven't played the demo,but from what i have seen and heard the game truly has zero ambition.This is the difference with AC4....AC4 had ambition,not to just fix AC3's mistakes,but also create something unique,and it mostly succeeded.On the other hand,if you showed to an clueless videogamer both ACS and ACU,he would most likely say that ACU is the sequel...."Next gen ACRo" indeed.You nailed it...

However there is still (little) hope...They may have cut many things from Unity and the new mechanics may seem amateurish,but they may still surprise us,especially if they create a decent story.The more i think about it though,the more i try to convince myself that i shouldn't buy the game,unless it gets fairly high scores/reviews(for example 8s)

Fatal-Feit
07-17-2015, 12:20 AM
Don't you think Rogue might be a bit harsh? I didn't play it, but I think Revelations may be a more fair comparison.

LoyalACFan
07-17-2015, 01:30 AM
Don't you think Rogue might be a bit harsh? I didn't play it, but I think Revelations may be a more fair comparison.

No, Rogue deserves the heat it gets. Revelations was a cash grab, for sure, but it was made in like nine months, and it actually did progress the main story quite a bit while adding a few new fun things like bombcrafting and hookblade moves (sure they were gimmicky, but they worked well and added a bit of novelty for a while). Whereas Rogue is just AC4 with snow. Literally zero new gameplay additions beyond a reskinned blowpipe that has area-of-effect moves this time. The story was arguably good (IMO slightly better than Unity's but still nothing to write home about) and Shay was a decent twist on the tried-and-true revenge-driven protagonist, but it didn't even try to innovate from Black Flag, it just sat in its shadow, much like Syndicate looks to be doing for Unity.

And dammit, I just can't get over the fact that they're reusing ALL of Arno's traversal and assassination animations. With a new protagonist every single year I would expect some significant overlap, but not even giving him his own running animation is just pure laziness.

I-Like-Pie45
07-17-2015, 01:42 AM
look at syndicate and do you know what I see

there is no hope

there is no escape

there is no innovation

there is only the CROSSED

SixKeys
07-17-2015, 01:50 AM
Don't you think Rogue might be a bit harsh? I didn't play it, but I think Revelations may be a more fair comparison.

Revelations at least had the ambition to try and tie up the stories of two legendary protagonists. The story was advertised as this epic conclusion to Ezio and Alta´r stories. It wasn't perfect, but for a game made in 10 months or so, it still packed a surprising amount of emotion. Gameplay-wise it only introduced a couple of new things, the hookblade and bomb crafting. Not a lot, but at least those were things we hadn't seen in the series before. Even Unity, with its back-to-basics approach introduced at least a few new features like co-op. But so far we've seen nothing in Syndicate that hasn't been done in one form or another earlier in the series. Building up a gang? Brotherhood recruits. Liberating the city? ACB and ACR. Carriages? AC2 and ACR. Rope launcher? Reskinned eagle power from ToKW DLC. Two protagonists? AC3. And so on.

I'm simply not sensing any passion behind ACS. Even Unity devs had more passion that came across clearly in interviews. They seemed to have genuinely thought about how to make the gameplay more balanced and stealthy. Whereas Rogue was just a shameless copy of AC4 with nothing original. It was still a decent game to keep yourself occupied with, since it was just more of the same, but it never tried to pretend to be any more than what it was. I'm getting the same feel from ACS. The devs seem to be most concerned with addressing performance issues and allowing players to try the demos hands-on to verify the game runs decently. But what else are they really selling? What innovations have we heard about? What interesting twist does the story offer? There's nothing that the devs seem genuinely excited about because frankly, there is nothing new to talk about.

Fatal-Feit
07-17-2015, 01:50 AM
No, Rogue deserves the heat it gets. Revelations was a cash grab, for sure, but it was made in like nine months, and it actually did progress the main story quite a bit while adding a few new fun things like bombcrafting and hookblade moves (sure they were gimmicky, but they worked well and added a bit of novelty for a while). Whereas Rogue is just AC4 with snow. Literally zero new gameplay additions beyond a reskinned blowpipe that has area-of-effect moves this time. The story was arguably good (IMO slightly better than Unity's but still nothing to write home about) and Shay was a decent twist on the tried-and-true revenge-driven protagonist, but it didn't even try to innovate from Black Flag, it just sat in its shadow, much like Syndicate looks to be doing for Unity.

And dammit, I just can't get over the fact that they're reusing ALL of Arno's traversal and assassination animations. With a new protagonist every single year I would expect some significant overlap, but not even giving him his own running animation is just pure laziness.

I worded my question wrong. I feel the comparison with Rogue is a bit harsh. At least Syndicate is getting its own year to shine, and with big marketing. Like Revelations. Rogue was that one game people had to be reminded was also coming out that year. And a new combat system, vehicles, and a different cast are a lot more remarkable than what Rogue has done, which at best, was just a few new chase-breakers.

Regarding the animations, to their credit, they have added some new parkour animations (besides the Rope Launcher), including the tumbling stance on moving vehicles and crowd interactions. And all of the combat animations have seen to be redone entirely, something that's usually reused to the core with past games. --Even Unity reused some AC3's finishers.

Hans684
07-17-2015, 07:47 AM
No, Rogue deserves the heat it gets. Revelations was a cash grab, for sure, but it was made in like nine months, and it actually did progress the main story quite a bit while adding a few new fun things like bombcrafting and hookblade moves (sure they were gimmicky, but they worked well and added a bit of novelty for a while).

Revelations woke Desmond from a coma and made us listen to the crew talk, some small progress on small events like Lucy's burial and character development. In Rogue you start a second purge against the Assassins, biggest thing we have done since saving the world. That was something that happened world wide, I'd say Rogue deserve more credit than it gets. Unity's story is less important than Liberation

LoyalACFan
07-17-2015, 09:48 AM
Revelations woke Desmond from a coma and made us listen to the crew talk, some small progress on small events like Lucy's burial and character development. In Rogue you start a second purge against the Assassins, biggest thing we have done since saving the world. That was something that happened world wide, I'd say Rogue deserve more credit than it gets. Unity's story is less important than Liberation

But we already knew about that purge and its exact outcome after AC3 (basically every Assassin dead at the hands of Haytham's crew except Achilles). Revelations may not have progressed Desmond's story much, but it did wrap up the stories of two legendary ancestors in a single game and cleared up the fate of Altair's Apple as well, so it's to be commended for that. Rogue just added a brand new (and completely f**king ridiculous) plot device with the holding-the-world-together-machines and shed some unimportant details on the purge even though we already knew how it ended.

Hans684
07-17-2015, 10:03 AM
But we already knew about that purge and its exact outcome after AC3 (basically every Assassin dead at the hands of Haytham's crew except Achilles). Revelations may not have progressed Desmond's story much, but it did wrap up the stories of two legendary ancestors in a single game and cleared up the fate of Altair's Apple as well, so it's to be commended for that. Rogue just added a brand new (and completely f**king ridiculous) plot device with the holding-the-world-together-machines and shed some unimportant details on the purge even though we already knew how it ended.

I'm talking about the Modern Day, it progressed it more than Revelations. Wrap ups if fine and all but it only woke Desmond up.

Locopells
07-17-2015, 10:36 AM
I feel I have to drop into the Rogue vs Revelations thing here, even though it is OT...

Rev tied up endings we already knew about just as much as Rogue did - The Secret Crusade book was already out by then, so we knew everything that was coming in the Altair segments.

Also, Rogue introduced just as many new gameplay elements as Rev - grenade launcher, reverse assassinations, descending lifts, reverse boardings. The one qualifier I'd put on that, is that most of Rogue's new stuff was variants on a theme, while the stalkers, hookblade and ziplines (we'd already had smoke bombs, they just extended the effects) were completely new. And even parts of the hookblade were variants on the climb leap from ACII...

As for modern day - nothing much happens during either, other then the big event at the end, so no real comparison there.

Just my thoughts.

Sorrosyss
07-17-2015, 11:38 AM
To the OP's question. It's really hard to say. There are some changes I like, and some I don't in Syndicate. I do feel if the story can at least be good, many may disregard some shortcomings. But those that left because of Unity's launch, likely won't be back. I'd assume lower sales than Unity in that respect.

That said, I think Ubi is fully aware that this launch has to be near perfect. Anything less is going to get dragged out across the media, with many commentators already expecting a messy launch.

One thing is for sure, they really cannot afford to let that release date slip like last year. If you give players the option of having Fallout 4, Battlefront etc instead, I daresay many more casual fans will overlook Syndicate. AC has to beat them to market.

Jarek23
07-17-2015, 06:11 PM
It's a shame that they're using London now that the series has taken a dip in quality.

I don't see this game doing very well, there is little hype around it and Unity just turned a lot of people off, not only because of the technical issues, but because it wasn't a very good game. Long time fans of the series such as myself are very skeptical going forward with the series, Syndicate does not look good, although I'm looking/hoping to be proven wrong.

The name AC used to sell me alone, take my money Ubi. Now they really have to sell me on the franchise again because right now it's fallen off. AC3 was the last great and true AC game, that felt like an AC game. BF was good, but it felt more like a spin-off than anything and the tailing missions really hurt it. Unity was the low point for me.

XavierSaviour
07-18-2015, 06:18 PM
It's a shame that they're using London now that the series has taken a dip in quality.

I don't see this game doing very well, there is little hype around it and Unity just turned a lot of people off, not only because of the technical issues, but because it wasn't a very good game. Long time fans of the series such as myself are very skeptical going forward with the series, Syndicate does not look good, although I'm looking/hoping to be proven wrong.

The name AC used to sell me alone, take my money Ubi. Now they really have to sell me on the franchise again because right now it's fallen off. AC3 was the last great and true AC game, that felt like an AC game. BF was good, but it felt more like a spin-off than anything and the tailing missions really hurt it. Unity was the low point for me.

Exactly!

Syndicate should be amazing because they've got Victorian London to work with and I expected them to come back stronger than ever, but now I'm skeptical and doubtful as to, whether or not, they will learn from their mistakes and make a fantastic game.

I use to also buy their games on the basis of name alone, but now I will wait a week at least to make sure there's no game-breaking bugs and the pro reviews and gamer reviews are good. I trust Gamers not developers anymore.

dimbismp
07-18-2015, 06:50 PM
Let's sum up the good and the bad:

GOOD

London seems ok
From what we've seen so far London seems quite nice.However we've yet to see the classic rainy/foggy atmosphere,but still we'll probably get another great city(Paris is better IMO though)
No multiplayer/coop
This is a goo decision IMO,cause the developers can focus on creating a solid singleplayer experience
Less preorder exclusives,microtransactions etc (?)
Well,i am not sure about this
Small things
For example the ability to move bodies,the white room,the(almost)dedicated button to change between hood/no hood,badass cane sword etc
Two switchable protagonists+1st female protagonist in main games
Which means that we might get a unique way of storytelling===>potentially better narrative
Potentially decent MD
Some rumors point to that direction


BAD

Too many reused animations from ACU
Jacob has the same character model with Arno and they also share the walking,running animations,plus most of the parkouring animations
Extremely fast and glitchy combat
What we've seen is far from AAA quality.Compare it to the Arkham games and tell me if you like it.
One man army+pathetic AI
As if the above point was not enough,what makes combat even worse is the fact that the enemies just STAND there,waiting for Jacob to hit them.For every punch they make,Jacob makes at least 6-7.This makes the protagonist an one-man army again(without the cool animations of AC3-AC4 though),despite the right direction of ACU
Rope launcher
As far as i am concerned,the rope launcher makes parkour,one of the three main pillars,completely useless.It might help for the wide streets,but stil...
Gangs(?)
Well,i just don't like it,and i know that some don't agree with me.The whole "take over london" thing is so used
Carriage driving
It doesn't seem fun at all
Too few,if not none,innovations
A potentially boring open world(again) (?)


Well,it is no wonder why people are pessimistic

Xstantin
07-18-2015, 07:47 PM
Gangs(?) Well,i just don't like it,and i know that some don't agree with me.The whole "take over london" thing is so used


Dunno, right now I still get the stronger feel of "Gangs of New York, but in London the game" than AC: Victorian Era. Maybe it's too early to judge but earlier games did a better job with selling the settings imo

BananaBlighter
07-18-2015, 08:03 PM
Let's sum up the good and the bad:

GOOD

London seems ok
From what we've seen so far London seems quite nice.However we've yet to see the classic rainy/foggy atmosphere,but still we'll probably get another great city(Paris is better IMO though)
No multiplayer/coop
This is a goo decision IMO,cause the developers can focus on creating a solid singleplayer experience
Less preorder exclusives,microtransactions etc (?)
Well,i am not sure about this
Small things
For example the ability to move bodies,the white room,the(almost)dedicated button to change between hood/no hood,badass cane sword etc
Two switchable protagonists+1st female protagonist in main games
Which means that we might get a unique way of storytelling===>potentially better narrative
Potentially decent MD
Some rumors point to that direction


BAD

Too many reused animations from ACU
Jacob has the same character model with Arno and they also share the walking,running animations,plus most of the parkouring animations
Extremely fast and glitchy combat
What we've seen is far from AAA quality.Compare it to the Arkham games and tell me if you like it.
One man army+pathetic AI
As if the above point was not enough,what makes combat even worse is the fact that the enemies just STAND there,waiting for Jacob to hit them.For every punch they make,Jacob makes at least 6-7.This makes the protagonist an one-man army again(without the cool animations of AC3-AC4 though),despite the right direction of ACU
Rope launcher
As far as i am concerned,the rope launcher makes parkour,one of the three main pillars,completely useless.It might help for the wide streets,but stil...
Gangs(?)
Well,i just don't like it,and i know that some don't agree with me.The whole "take over london" thing is so used
Carriage driving
It doesn't seem fun at all
Too few,if not none,innovations
A potentially boring open world(again) (?)


Well,it is no wonder why people are pessimistic

I agree with the GOOD, but I find the rope launcher and carriages very interesting additions. While they aren't totally new 'innovations' in the world of gaming, it definitely is something very new for AC. I honestly believe the rope launcher doesn't affect parkour all that much. The best bits about the parkour IMO aren't the tedious scaling of walls; but running across rooftops, along the sides of buildings, and stylish vaulting. From the little details we see in this more modern and industrialised setting (such as the piping and signs on buildings), these elements of the parkour could become even better. The carriages are more than just cars from GTA. There is a great focus on moving fights, with ramming and combat on top of vehicles.

I doubt the open world is going to be boring; from what we've heard, it seems we're getting more in depth side activities, and with the variety of transport like trains (hope to see more of these) free roam will probably be a lot more enjoyable than Unity. True that most of Arno's animations have been copied over on to Jacob, and we only have like 5 combat animations, but because we have Evie that will probably double the animations in all the core pillars (maybe not parkour), so I don't mind the reused animations; it's nothing new. Hopefully the AI can be improved before launch, as yes, it is quite pathetic looking, as well as the combat in general; not visually satisfying at all. We haven't seen much of gangs, all we have is footage from one mission, so I'm hoping they're more than just a repeat of the boring assassin recruits.

Overall there are many thing that I'm not liking right now, which usually isn't the way I'm thinking before an AC release, simply because usually they don't show much genuine gameplay as they have done this time. However I'm being very optimistic about what seems new, and what we haven't been shown a great deal of.

Xstantin
07-18-2015, 08:45 PM
I find the rope launcher and carriages very interesting additions. While they aren't totally new 'innovations' in the world of gaming, it definitely is something very new for AC.

one is reskinned Eagle flight, the other is straight from Revelations though

pacmanate
07-18-2015, 09:05 PM
Gangs = Brotherhood recruits

Why can no one see this?

steveeire
07-18-2015, 09:33 PM
Everyone with half a brain does.

dimbismp
07-18-2015, 11:14 PM
Gangs = Brotherhood recruits

Why can no one see this?
I am not pessimistic about the mechanic,i am pessimistic about the story element of the gang.First of all,the gangs usually have to do with early 20th century USA etc(see gangs of NY).Victorian London got most people excited because they imagined an assassin working in the shadows.

Secondly,the existence of the gangs result in ancient and overused mission type of "conquer enemy stronghold".Simultaneously,the whole "liberate the city" motive is also overused in the franchise.ACS is taking ACB innovations and re-offers them as completely new.

Finally,what about the "Hide in plain sight" tenet?I know that the assassins have to adapt to each time period,but i think that Jacob and Evie could take London in other ways.And before people say that Edward being a pirate and captaining a ship wasn't that assassin-y,i'll have to remind you that Edward wasn't an assassin back then,whereas Jacob is an assassin from the beggining.To get back to my initial idea,i believe that Jacob and Evie could easily take down one by one the Templars,alone,without the help of any gangs or other organisations,just as Altair and Connor did before them.

TL;DR I don't approve of the gang mechanic,and consequently the stonghold liberation thing,because it is overused,it clashes with the Creed and with my perception of the ideal victorian assassin

This is my opinion of course

steveeire
07-18-2015, 11:31 PM
First of all,the gangs usually have to do with early 20th century USA etc

This is probably one of the silliest things I have read on the Internet. Its like something someone would say, who has never studied any world history ever.

The US or the 20th Century does not hold a monopoly on Gangs.

JamesFaith007
07-19-2015, 12:49 AM
I am not pessimistic about the mechanic,i am pessimistic about the story element of the gang.First of all,the gangs usually have to do with early 20th century USA etc(see gangs of NY).


Actually word "gang" is used in meaning "band of criminals" from beginning of 17th century but many older groups can be qualified as gangs too.

F.e. one of oldest gang in today words meaning were Damned crew (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damned_Crew) (around 1600) in London - it was group of younger man who were attacking people on streets an watchmen for fun.And there were many other in London in this era - Mims, Dead Boys... And they commonly fight between themselves for territory or prestige.

American gangs from early 20th century are just most known and more often presented in books, tv shows and movies then their much older predecessors.

VestigialLlama4
07-19-2015, 06:07 AM
This is probably one of the silliest things I have read on the Internet. Its like something someone would say, who has never studied any world history ever.

The US or the 20th Century does not hold a monopoly on Gangs.

It actually does. Organized crime on the level you see in America in the 1900s and the 20th Century was never a big problem in England. There is a smaller population and size to contend with for one thing.

In the 19th Century street gangs did not control whole burrougs and had no political clout and influence, compare that to Italy, parts of USA (at least in the 1800s-early 1900s) where gangsters had political influence. Charles D-ckens visited New York at the time and he said that as bad as London was, New York was a million times worse.


Actually word "gang" is used in meaning "band of criminals" from beginning of 17th century but many older groups can be qualified as gangs too.

F.e. one of oldest gang in today words meaning were Damned crew (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damned_Crew) (around 1600) in London - it was group of younger man who were attacking people on streets an watchmen for fun.And there were many other in London in this era - Mims, Dead Boys... And they commonly fight between themselves for territory or prestige.

American gangs from early 20th century are just most known and more often presented in books, tv shows and movies then their much older predecessors.

The game is set in 1868, Victorian London, at that time and place, gang activity in England was not to the level you see there. What you describe is from an earlier period of English history, the 1700s (where London was a lot more rundown). And even then 1700s England was nothing compared to the Gangs of New York era.

kosmoscreed
07-19-2015, 09:54 AM
[QUOTE=Daanage;10922480 is a less than 2 million copies sold.[/QUOTE]

No way, this franchise is selling with mayor titles around 10-12 million, I expect lower sales because Unity and fatigue, but only 2 million is rather low. I don't think the franchise is that damaged yet, it seems there are millions of buyers (non hardcore fans like us) out there willing to buy AC games no matter what.