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View Full Version : The IA bots can improve



KillJohnG
07-14-2015, 04:39 AM
I can't stop watching the gameplays, this is the game I was really waiting for, but I hope you can make more challenging the battles making IA bots more aggressive or just putting different types of IA fighters in the battlefield, like in assasins creed, more difficult to kill or more dangerous at least, this will give you the posibility to take advantage iin some situations. What do you think? The IA bots seems really stupid in the gameplay, they are just there watching how you kill them, Its true that your hero must be powerful and needs to push back the waves of fighters easily, but at least make them attack you back and give you some damage for fail blocking or counterattacking.

Kamzgdx
07-14-2015, 05:12 PM
I can't stop watching the gameplays, this is the game I was really waiting for, but I hope you can make more challenging the battles making IA bots more aggressive or just putting different types of IA fighters in the battlefield, like in assasins creed, more difficult to kill or more dangerous at least, this will give you the posibility to take advantage iin some situations. What do you think? The IA bots seems really stupid in the gameplay, they are just there watching how you kill them, Its true that your hero must be powerful and needs to push back the waves of fighters easily, but at least make them attack you back and give you some damage for fail blocking or counterattacking.

I agree with the whole AI bot challenge.

I am worried with how FODDER like they were during the pre-alpha game play.

Players were just smashing right through them without any real skill. There was no real threat or cost to clearing out the points of enemy bots.

If you consider this like LANING as it is in MOBAs, this should require some skill to force players to make the decision of value.
Is it worth spending 2-3 mins to clear out the point while my enemies and allies run around elsewhere without me? Is clearing out this point worth risking my allies getting out numbered in fights?

DO I have the skill and health to stand and fight in the lane? If so, is it worth risking that bit of health to clear this point?
These are decisions players ought to make when they come into contact with a horde of enemy bots.



Another thing that might be cool, is if a feat or... .something.... would allow bots to roam the lane with you, to fight along side you, protect you even.
So maybe 5 bots near by decide you are a higher ranking officer and they support you so long as you stay in the lane.

MisterWillow
07-14-2015, 06:53 PM
They're supposed to be fodder. Killing them does nothing but gain you a single point and as far as Dominion, they seems to be there to provide a bit of atmosphere as they fight over zone A. The focus is fighting other people.

Having said that, we don't know their role in other game modes. They could be more valuable in the Battlefield-Rush-style mode that people have proposed around here a few times (presuming something like it is present as a game mode). In Dominion, I think they should actually help you capture and hold points (even if it's just zone A), so that, if both teams' mobs are there, it remains neutral until a player captures it, but if one mob gets close to wiped out, then the opposing mob starts capturing the point. It can still be captured by an opposing player uncontested, but if left alone, it can be captured entirely by the mob, and if that should happen (since it would requires severe negligence on the opposing team's part), that entire team gains a feat, instead of just one person. The only way to prevent that gradual, passive capture would be to wipe out that mob as well.

Also, I don't know if you've seen this video, which was shot on E3's show-floor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52rACMIi5Q

But, if you notice, at about 25 seconds, the player gets attacked by a random mob guy, and loses an entire segment of health, which leads me to believe that they aren't quite as easy to deal with as people assume, especially if you get surrounded. Maybe they could increase their aggression toward the player, or have the player agro them, to decrease the appearance of passivity they've shown in present footage.

TheLight-Boogey
07-14-2015, 07:04 PM
Way to early to judge the AI based on a gameplay video.

This is a multiplayer game btw, the minions shouldn't be the challenge, the human enemies should.

KillJohnG
07-14-2015, 08:16 PM
I agree with the whole AI bot challenge.

I am worried with how FODDER like they were during the pre-alpha game play.

Players were just smashing right through them without any real skill. There was no real threat or cost to clearing out the points of enemy bots.

If you consider this like LANING as it is in MOBAs, this should require some skill to force players to make the decision of value.
Is it worth spending 2-3 mins to clear out the point while my enemies and allies run around elsewhere without me? Is clearing out this point worth risking my allies getting out numbered in fights?

DO I have the skill and health to stand and fight in the lane? If so, is it worth risking that bit of health to clear this point?
These are decisions players ought to make when they come into contact with a horde of enemy bots.



Another thing that might be cool, is if a feat or... .something.... would allow bots to roam the lane with you, to fight along side you, protect you even.
So maybe 5 bots near by decide you are a higher ranking officer and they support you so long as you stay in the lane.

Agree with you, this could be a good competitive game if IA takes importance in a pvp contest.


They're supposed to be fodder. Killing them does nothing but gain you a single point and as far as Dominion, they seems to be there to provide a bit of atmosphere as they fight over zone A. The focus is fighting other people.

Having said that, we don't know their role in other game modes. They could be more valuable in the Battlefield-Rush-style mode that people have proposed around here a few times (presuming something like it is present as a game mode). In Dominion, I think they should actually help you capture and hold points (even if it's just zone A), so that, if both teams' mobs are there, it remains neutral until a player captures it, but if one mob gets close to wiped out, then the opposing mob starts capturing the point. It can still be captured by an opposing player uncontested, but if left alone, it can be captured entirely by the mob, and if that should happen (since it would requires severe negligence on the opposing team's part), that entire team gains a feat, instead of just one person. The only way to prevent that gradual, passive capture would be to wipe out that mob as well.

Also, I don't know if you've seen this video, which was shot on E3's show-floor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H52rACMIi5Q

But, if you notice, at about 25 seconds, the player gets attacked by a random mob guy, and loses an entire segment of health, which leads me to believe that they aren't quite as easy to deal with as people assume, especially if you get surrounded. Maybe they could increase their aggression toward the player, or have the player agro them, to decrease the appearance of passivity they've shown in present footage.

Yes, but it seems to be way easy to avoid that, you can see the rest stay back meanwhile one of them attack the hero, assasins creed have more challenging battles in my opinion.


Way to early to judge the AI based on a gameplay video.

This is a multiplayer game btw, the minions shouldn't be the challenge, the human enemies should.

I know, I m not saying that I want this game to be like dark souls, I m just saying that IA/players combination could make the game more interesting and make goals more important than kills, classic MOBA problem. Like in Heroes of Storm, IA can help you to win the match. In this game they seem just like inmersion ambient and that reduce the experience quality in my opinion.

MisterWillow
07-14-2015, 08:50 PM
Agree with you, this could be a good competitive game if IA takes importance in a pvp contest.



Yes, but it seems to be way easy to avoid that, you can see the rest stay back meanwhile one of them attack the hero, assasins creed have more challenging battles in my opinion.



I know, I m not saying that I want this game to be like dark souls, I m just saying that IA/players combination could make the game more interesting and make goals more important than kills, classic MOBA problem. Like in Heroes of Storm, IA can help you to win the match. In this game they seem just like inmersion ambient and that reduce the experience quality in my opinion.

Hence the suggestion that the player agroes AI in the surrounding area. Assassin's Creed is single-player, first and foremost, and despite Unity's co-op mechanic, you're only fighting AI. Its combat is also completely different, in that, it's based on parries and ripostes. I would also argue that beyond AC 2, it became far too easy to slaughter entire garrisons without taking any damage, so I disagree that it has battles that are any more difficult than wading through AI in For Honor.

Again, we don't know what they do in other modes (we don't even know what those other modes are). We've only seen one mode, one map, two of the three factions, and a single class from those two factions. It's way too early (or we've seen too little) to say if they need to be altered. I'd suggest at least waiting until the Beta drops and you can actually play it to make a judgement like that.

Fatal-Feit
07-18-2015, 11:29 PM
We should wait for beta before commenting on the AI. A couple of people who have played the pre-alpha demo I spoke to said they felt the AI was appropriate. And described that 2-3 hits would actually make experience worse. --As they become unnecessarily challenging. Like MisterWillow said, they are suppose to be fodder enemies.

Dunno if you've played Titanfall, but there are a bunch of fodder enemies on the battlefield and they didn't harm the experience. That was their point. For you to easily shoot down to gather points if enemy players are out of reach, or are too difficult. It was well balanced and didn't diminish the flow. For Honor seems to be taking the exact same route.


Hence the suggestion that the player agroes AI in the surrounding area. Assassin's Creed is single-player, first and foremost, and despite Unity's co-op mechanic, you're only fighting AI. Its combat is also completely different, in that, it's based on parries and ripostes. I would also argue that beyond AC 2, it became far too easy to slaughter entire garrisons without taking any damage, so I disagree that it has battles that are any more difficult than wading through AI in For Honor.

I get your point, but AC2 has one of the easiest combat in the series. The most balanced would be AC1 and Unity.


Again, we don't know what they do in other modes (we don't even know what those other modes are). We've only seen one mode, one map, two of the three factions, and a single class from those two factions. It's way too early (or we've seen too little) to say if they need to be altered. I'd suggest at least waiting until the Beta drops and you can actually play it to make a judgement like that.

This. ^

Dead1y-Derri
07-18-2015, 11:39 PM
We should wait for beta before commenting on the AI. A couple of people who have played the pre-alpha demo I spoke to said they felt the AI was appropriate. And described that 2-3 hits would actually make experience worse. --As they become unnecessarily challenging. Like MisterWillow said, they are suppose to be fodder enemies.

Dunno if you've played Titanfall, but there are a bunch of fodder enemies on the battlefield and they didn't harm the experience. That was their point. For you to easily shoot down to gather points if enemy players are out of reach, or are too difficult. It was well balanced. For Honor seems to be taking the exact same route.



Exactly this.

Titanfall had AI and like you said it was more cannon fodder to help build up points for modes like Attrition and also to help build your titan earlier. It also kept the game flowing nicely because the maps were obviously large because Titans needed to move around. I think the AI are only to serve as cannon fodder to make the battlefield feel alive and to give you something to do very early on in a match.

I think if you make the AI take 3 or more hits all you're doing is making the battles be drawn out more which isn't what you want in a Multiplayer focused game. You want to be spending as little time engaging them and more time engaging the enemy players and not the AI fodder.

Havemercy87
07-19-2015, 11:51 AM
Exactly this.

Titanfall had AI and like you said it was more cannon fodder to help build up points for modes like Attrition and also to help build your titan earlier. It also kept the game flowing nicely because the maps were obviously large because Titans needed to move around. I think the AI are only to serve as cannon fodder to make the battlefield feel alive and to give you something to do very early on in a match.

I think if you make the AI take 3 or more hits all you're doing is making the battles be drawn out more which isn't what you want in a Multiplayer focused game. You want to be spending as little time engaging them and more time engaging the enemy players and not the AI fodder.
This

Fatal-Feit
07-19-2015, 10:12 PM
I think if you make the AI take 3 or more hits all you're doing is making the battles be drawn out more which isn't what you want in a Multiplayer focused game. You want to be spending as little time engaging them and more time engaging the enemy players and not the AI fodder.

Yep, and it's not that that. If you make the AI too hard, you would be better off fighting players at the other capture points. Sure, you can hack your way through enemy fodders, but keep in mind they only give you 1 point and there's a LOT of them.

Dead1y-Derri
07-19-2015, 11:30 PM
Yep, and it's not that that. If you make the AI too hard, you would be better off fighting players at the other capture points. Sure, you can hack your way through enemy fodders, but keep in mind they only give you 1 point and there's a LOT of them.

Exactly :)