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FI.Snaphoo
08-31-2004, 01:11 AM
Alright, I need some help from all of you aces out there who keep shooting me down. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif I'm relatively new to this level of game/sim. I don't have TrackIR, don't have the money right now. So, I seem to lose people and they, oddly enough, end up on my six. Once there, I get to see a great light and smoke show, usually followed by me limping away (at best case scenario), or more likely exploding, having to bail, or getting shot while in the saddle.

Any tips that would help me shake you guys from my tail would make my experience, and by extension yours, much more enjoyable online.

I would like to add that I am looking for various solutions to my problem as I have it now. I will get Track IR eventually, but please do not offer that as a solution to my problem. As all I can see that it will do is allow me to see the bullets hit my fuselage. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Any help though, in reality would be appreciated.

I've been flying 109G2's G14's and P47's as well as P38L's

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

FI.Snaphoo
08-31-2004, 01:11 AM
Alright, I need some help from all of you aces out there who keep shooting me down. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif I'm relatively new to this level of game/sim. I don't have TrackIR, don't have the money right now. So, I seem to lose people and they, oddly enough, end up on my six. Once there, I get to see a great light and smoke show, usually followed by me limping away (at best case scenario), or more likely exploding, having to bail, or getting shot while in the saddle.

Any tips that would help me shake you guys from my tail would make my experience, and by extension yours, much more enjoyable online.

I would like to add that I am looking for various solutions to my problem as I have it now. I will get Track IR eventually, but please do not offer that as a solution to my problem. As all I can see that it will do is allow me to see the bullets hit my fuselage. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Any help though, in reality would be appreciated.

I've been flying 109G2's G14's and P47's as well as P38L's

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

WTE_Galway
08-31-2004, 01:16 AM
none of the planes you are talking about should really be in a turn fight in the first place .. they are all more zoom and boom oriented

i would actually be looking at what you did wrong to let them get on your six in the first palce

FI.Snaphoo
08-31-2004, 01:21 AM
Mostly gaining altitude... That's usually what I try to do to start with anyway in the Luftbirds... And I'm usually shot when I turn to go find everyone... I'm sure level flying in the allied planes isn't smart.

But isn't there anything I can do to try to shake them once they are there? Or, what can I do to try to keep them off in the first place? How can I fight an "enemy" that I rarely see?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

butakup
08-31-2004, 01:26 AM
try using the la7 series of plane and use combat flaps to get a tighter turn at sloewer speeds there are some good flying tips at il2flying.com that will help you

FI.Snaphoo
08-31-2004, 01:30 AM
Thanks for that, I've read most of the stuff on il2flying, and found it helpful, perhaps they have something on this scenario.

As for the La-7, if that were in the plane sets I would take that advice, but for whatever reason, the server I've been hanging out at doesn't have that as an option.

Thanks again. Keep the ideas coming, please. N00b needs help.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

pourshot
08-31-2004, 01:35 AM
The best advice i can give would be to try and find a wing man, it's the only easy way to shake a attacker.And while your at it make sure your both on coms http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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IAFS_Painter
08-31-2004, 01:35 AM
If you can not afford TrackIR, see if you can stretch to a Track Ball.

Keep your left hand on the TB, and it to look around.
It does take a little getting used to, but is much better than the hat switches.

Failing a TB, use your mouse.

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Unless I've corrected it here

PF_Coastie
08-31-2004, 01:35 AM
I think there are 2 things you must do.

1. Practice

2. Join a squad. Your learning curve will be much quicker if you get in a squad and fly with squadmates. They will help you immensily.

Go to the squad forum and see who is recruiting.

Good Luck!

PF_Coastie

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FI.Snaphoo
08-31-2004, 01:43 AM
Roger that...

I did join a squad, but it doesn't look like our schedules will ever line up. Ah well, looks like I'm target practice for a while...

On the trackball, I already have my left hand on the throttle of my X45, the mouse option doesn't work great in that stick. (First stick I've had with the mouse built in) Doesn't seem to move fast enough even with the sensitivity maxed.

Thanks to all that offered advice.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

BaldieJr
08-31-2004, 02:07 AM
You can cheat that micro-stick mouse speed a bit. Go into hardware setup in FB and go to the control section. Look in the lower right corner of the screen that lets you adjust the stick sensitivity: change mouse speed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Lunix
08-31-2004, 02:19 AM
If you like flying keep it up. Slowly you will learn to recognize other peoples strategies and be able to estimate their positions in the future. Its not about TIR but knowlege of strategy, recognition of this strategy and adaptation/execution of the perfect counter strategy for the situation. Knowing the planes really helps too. A luxury not afforded to many real WWII pilots.

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karost
08-31-2004, 02:20 AM
Snaphoo, seem you like 109G2's G14's and P47's as well as P38L's , so I believe you read alot about energy tactic right? so all you need to do is a "Practice" for energy tactic same as PF_Coastie's advice.

you have to improve your skillfull coz no one can give this skillfull for you just only yourself can give it to you.

if you have a batter hardware, when you join DF server open a record trackfile , and replay your track file to study your mistake and study your opponent tactic , if you can see your mistake by your eyes so you will understand and create your own tactic and stop doing that kind of your mistake.


I always see many new friends take 109s to playing turning tactic with spritfire or yak or La , at low level that is a wrong tactic for 109 and next 3 min. they was shot down all.


I try to help them as most as I can, but I think I let 109s friends was shoot by spritfire or yak so next time he/they will stop playing turning tactic with a wrong plane again . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


S!

[This message was edited by karost on Tue August 31 2004 at 01:33 AM.]

WTE_Ibis
08-31-2004, 02:32 AM
What karost said,twice. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

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FI.Snaphoo
08-31-2004, 03:00 AM
Thanks all... I really appreciate the effort given to a new player/Virtual pilot.

Let me start from take off on the Luft side of the game... In this case, a 109G2

Start Engine... Taxi to runway (hoping I don't hit something on the way there)... line up on the runway, lock the back wheel... Full take off flaps (I know there is some debate about needing them, it helps me feel "in" the game)... Ease the throttle up and start down the runway... Continuing easing the throttle until max or near max throttle... Easing the stick back and then lifting into the sky... Gear up... Flaps up to raised position... and spiral climb gentle ascent to 3k - 5k meters directly above my base (figuring flak cover or at least warning).... Mostly listening to coms as I seem to be behind everyone all the time... once reaching my desired altitude I trek towards the hotspot or mission objective... and it's at that point that I usually get shot.... some loan mustang jock too close to our base shoots me down as I'm leveling out just away from my base.... at 3k to 5k meters above it all... Just like I've read...

So is spiraling bad? I may be leaving something out, but that's basically my moment by moment takeoff to shot down list.... I'm not sure what I should be doing differently...

Thanks again to all that have responded thus far...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

Aufpassen
08-31-2004, 03:14 AM
It is very important to realise that if you get shot down the reason for this almost always ocurred long, long before you were actually nailed. You were positioned wrong. This has very little to do with the abilities of the plane you are flying but very much with having an eye for the strategic and tactical approach to the fight. Always read the brief and study the map of the server you are flying on carefully. Also, note which base(s) the enemy is using. You should have a mental image available to you where you are likely to find the enemy and where the fight is likely to happen. Also, where you might run to when you are in trouble. You should not be wondering about these sorts of questions when you are actually engaged.

With this in mind, if you want to win a fight, only engage with a serious E-advantage over all enemies around, and do not loose it. Disengage the moment this becomes questionable. If you stick to this, you'll make it home more often then not.

Xnomad
08-31-2004, 04:09 AM
Get yourself IL2 compare!

That way you'll know what to do against which type of enemy. With IL2 compare you can compare two aircraft's speed, climb, climb according to altitude and turn rate with each other.

This way you will know what to do with the plane behind you. For instance if he has a slower climb rate then extend away from him and start to climb. With IL2 compare you can see what speed your plane climbs at the best, so reach that speed and climb away from him.

Of course with all planes if he is really close right on your tail then you can only try to shake him off or make him overshoot. The best would be to dive in a situation like that but diving requires altitude.

If you stay high with energy fighters (planes like the P-38, Bf 109, Fw 190, etc.) then you will less likely have someone surprising you as most of the enemy like to fly low, in addition you will have lots of space to dive into should an enemy get on your six.

You'll find a copy of IL2 Compare on this website:
http://www.checksix-fr.com/
It's in French but on the left click on
F.Battles AEP
and then on
Utilitaires
and then on the right you will see IL2 Compare 2.4, that's the file you want.

It hasn't been updated for the latest AEP patch but it is nevertheless the most accurate comparison utility out there so most of the info should be up to date.

Good Luck and practice practice practice!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Xnomad-Sig.jpg

steiner562
08-31-2004, 04:21 AM
Hey if your still have a hard time shaking those ponys and spits from position 6 a last desparate tactic is to drop full flaps throttle back pull up and a cross ie evasive manouver! and watch that sucker fly right past you of course this is extrememly high risk and against very experienced pilots probably wont work but its saved my *** on a number of occassions http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.bf109.com/gallery/grayeagle/gallgray01sm.jpg

Kamikaze_si
08-31-2004, 04:40 AM
Sorry, but what is TrackIR?, i am only 13 and fly offline. Am i missiong out on somehting?

FI.Snaphoo
08-31-2004, 05:15 AM
TrackIR is a piece of hardware, that new costs about $140 (American), that tracks the position of your head so that you can "look" around you in a fashion that doesn't use extra buttons or keystrokes (or mouse movement). I feel like I'm missing out because these guys are doing what I want to do with a movement of their head, where it takes me to combine about 1 or 2 hat buttons to get the proper view. And that can be hard while flying. Neat piece of hardware, some guys swear by them. Not sure if it's worth my hard earned green yet though. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

FI.Snaphoo
08-31-2004, 06:28 AM
Thanks all for their help thus far... I'll look into the ideas given here, and if anyone wants to add more, I'm willing to learn! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks again!

~Snaphoo

P.S. Sorry for the "spam" but had to ask this as well... I just got the compare proggy that Xomad suggested, what is TAS? I've got ROC as Rate of Climb, but do not understand TAS? Time after shot? Totally Agrevating Statistic? Total Anihilation Situation? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Anything on this would be most helpful. Thanks again.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

[This message was edited by Snaphoo on Tue August 31 2004 at 05:37 AM.]

CaptainGelo
08-31-2004, 06:45 AM
try takeing p47 to 12k its great plane..

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''
http://www.danasoft.com/sig/oleg86.jpg
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''


plane is 2slow, guns are 2weak and DM suck?...Then click here (http://www.hmp16.com/hotstuff/downloads/Justin%20Timberlake%20-%20Cry%20Me%20A%20River.mp3) | Fear british army. (http://216.144.230.195/Videos/Medium_WMP8/British_Attack.wmv)

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Xnomad
08-31-2004, 06:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snaphoo:
I just got the compare proggy that Xomad suggested, what is TAS? I've got ROC as Rate of Climb, but do not understand TAS? Time after shot? Totally Agrevating Statistic? Total Anihilation Situation? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Anything on this would be most helpful. Thanks again.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TAS stands for True Air Speed (actual velocity relative to the surrounding air mass)

The opposite is IAS which stands for Indicated Air Speed, basically what it says on your dials in the cockpit.

Indicated airspeed and true airspeed differ according to altitude this is due to air density.

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Xnomad-Sig.jpg

pres_
08-31-2004, 07:06 AM
TAS is true air speed, as opposed to indicated air speed.

I've only just started online myself and found myself using similar opening tactics as your example. What I would do is keep your situational awareness high and make sure you know that mustang is coming before he arrives and catches you slow. I'd sacrifice some alt for speed regardless of any alt advantage opponent already has, in fact I'd go hard and get to at least 550, 600 and if the mustang wants to follow he'll probably end up with a similar E situation as you. If not, well, try to keep your speed as best you can, slink off trickily and grab some alt back when you think it's a safe time. That's my advice, get that speed before he arrives.

Mind you I only played a few hours online.

oisink
08-31-2004, 07:12 AM
speaking as a noob who has the exact saem problem as you one thig i use when someones belting bullets past me is DIVE!! split s or roll when you diving..whatever get out of his gunsight and head for momma earth. I try graduate the dive as I loose alt so I dont have to dramatically level out and hope the other guy doesnt notice how much speed he's building and altitude he's loosing. Its worked for me quite a few times. And if that doesnt work and i'm still alive I just run for home at ground level, "porpoising "and pulling the odd crazy maneuvere in the hope that the bad guy is so intent on me that he winds up eating dirt. Worked for me twice the last time i was online, i was suprised http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ois√¬*n

"N√¬*l sa saol ach gaoth is toit"

ZG77_Lignite
08-31-2004, 09:39 AM
In your short account I did not see a statement like 'I seen the P51 approaching and...' If you are not seeing the enemy, That may be your biggest mistake. No doubt it is quite difficult to spot enemies in this game (assuming you are flying 'full real', or 'full switch', or '@#$%^#$%', depending upon which camp you are from), but it can be done. Adjusting/experimenting with some hardware settings can have some effect (lower resolutions have helped many), practice will have a huge effect, and tactics will make a difference too when trying to spot enemies, but however you do it, you MUST be able to see the bad guys. If you cannot, you may consider switching to 'icons on' (but Please give it a good chance, you Can learn to spot the badguys).

TAS=True Air Speed Speed is arguably your most important asset (especially in the aircraft you mentioned). If you are going slower than 'best maneuver speed', then thats a mistake. If you are going faster than your 'safe controllable speed', thats a mistake too. Alwayse attempt to build your energy state (altitude/speed) while undermining your enemies, and at some point during this process he will fly through your bullet stream, it is inevitable (unless he does it to you first).

Z1stDan
08-31-2004, 11:50 AM
In regards to problems using the mouse to pan around. Try using a program called joytokey. Go to google and search for joytokey. The first listing is the english version. Down load the program and convert the hat switch to mouse movements. When flying, the hat switch acts like the mouse. You must click on the program and minimize it to run in the background prior to entering the game. It works well, Ive been using it since the first IL2 game.

dieg777
08-31-2004, 12:42 PM
Two things that really helped me out were newview a program that lets you use your hat as Trackir- it lets you look deeper into your six -its linked from here look on left hand side

http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/il2_fb.htm

also map one of your joy stick buttons to toggle POV in control section this allows you to zoom in and out. I fly wide view most of time for situational awareness and mid to gunsite when closing for kill

( default bittons delete-end-pgdn)

Good luck

GUNNER
Gunner get a decent signature
Gunner learn to fly
Gunner learn to shoot
Gunner not run out of bullets just as I get on his six

JG7_Rall
08-31-2004, 02:24 PM
Sorry, you will never become an ace until you buy trackir. Never.

cough cough.

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LStarosta
08-31-2004, 02:26 PM
LOL! Pure comical genius! I mean it!

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Spacer nad Berlinem!

JG7_Rall
08-31-2004, 02:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LStarosta:
LOL! Pure comical genius! I mean it!

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Be sure. My jokes are as powerful as delta wood. Be sure...again.

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"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!
Flying online as Hutch51

Taylortony
08-31-2004, 04:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snaphoo:
Alright, I need some help from all of you aces out there who keep shooting me down. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif I'm relatively new to this level of game/sim. I don't have TrackIR, don't have the money right now. So, I seem to lose people and they, oddly enough, end up on my six. Once there, I get to see a great light and smoke show, usually followed by me limping away (at best case scenario), or more likely exploding, having to bail, or getting shot while in the saddle.

Any tips that would help me shake you guys from my tail would make my experience, and by extension yours, much more enjoyable online.

I would like to add that I am looking for various solutions to my problem as I have it now. I will get Track IR eventually, but please do not offer that as a solution to my problem. As all I can see that it will do is allow me to see the bullets hit my fuselage. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Any help though, in reality would be appreciated.

I've been flying 109G2's G14's and P47's as well as P38L's

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

for what its worth dont have one either and never needed it, just dont fly long straight tracks and keep yawing to see if you have company, it will come just hang in there and above all ENJOY http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WTE_Galway
08-31-2004, 05:32 PM
you need 3D glasses and manual mixture to be truly ace

JG7_Rall
08-31-2004, 07:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
you need 3D glasses and manual mixture to be truly ace<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and a homebuilt cockpit.

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"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!
Flying online as Hutch51

sunflower1
08-31-2004, 08:14 PM
IAS= Indicated Airspeed, what the dial says.

TAS= True Airspeed, the actual speed of the plane through the air. As the air gets thinner, the a/s indicator reads a lower speed than True.

FI.Snaphoo
09-01-2004, 12:26 AM
Wow! Thanks to all for the informative and humerous posts. I really appreciate the help! I'll be combing through the comparison doohicky, and flying more, and asking a whole bunch of questions! So, I will ask for your patience now, if I'm ever on a server/comserver with you.

&lt;O!

Thanks again!
~Snaph...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif