PDA

View Full Version : I really hope there are tons weapons to choose from.



Joe_Corleone
07-10-2015, 09:29 PM
I hope there are multiple swords, axes, pole arms, katanas, Naginatas, shields. They don't have to change stats but maybe become more ornate with carvings and engravings different hilts, blades, axe heads. Something to show progression. Give us players something to collect, and give us our choice of weapon to go into battle with. It covers progression, replay ability, and possessions or things to collect. Really hope this is in the game.

MisterWillow
07-10-2015, 10:56 PM
This seems more related to weapon customisation than it does weapon selection.

I said something in another thread dealing with this sort of thing and started thinking about how character progression is actually going to be implemented, and I'm not really sure I want a shooter-type unlock system---like a melee-equivalent of foregrip, to increase accuracy, or heavy barrel to increase damage.

I guess they could have, say, a heavier blade, longer blade, heavy pommel, etc. to increase/decrease things like damage or attack speed, but I'm not sure how well that would do in terms of balance later on---in the case of, for example, a rank 50 player with a weapon that's much faster/stronger than a stock one being matchmade with a rank 5 player with a couple of options, so they'd be at an inherent disadvantage beyond sheer player experience and/or skill, which the combat system seems to emphasize. The same thing could be said for armour unlocks and customisation, in terms of being more protective, etc.. Then again, that could all be worked out via matchmaking, and players are grouped around other players closer to their rank---so a rank 50 would never face a rank 5 anyway.

I feel like unlocking cosmetic options to distinguish your Hero character from everyone, like weapon engravings, would be better than unlocking things that increase your strength, health, speed or whatever.

I'm not sure if I got sidetracked too much there or not (apologies if I did), but I agree with the premise wholeheartedly. The more options the better.

Havemercy87
07-11-2015, 01:48 AM
I'm in agreement with both. More options the better. I don't believe they would let this game release without a huge weapon base with the emphasis they made at the masterclass. But doesn't hurt to get it out there.

As much as I agree with Willow and everyone else on the weapons all being built on the same stats(per class that is). I don't think they will, I get this from the point they made on matchmaking. If they did do the weapons as such, it would make matchmaking a hell of alot easier. Also making getting a full match easier. We'll have to wait and see I suppose.

guest-7lONTXP5
07-11-2015, 03:43 AM
I don't think they have a stat system. Would just be a lot of work for nothing but very hard balancing and unrealictic stats. If they wanted stats they wouldn't have a Katana vs. heavy armor I guess.

Havemercy87
07-11-2015, 03:57 AM
Not really stats per say, but like damage and block strength

Joe_Corleone
07-11-2015, 04:15 AM
I don't know if they have stats all I'm saying is, we know there is a progression system. I think the higher "rank" you are the more ornate weapons there can be. An example could be, a Viking with dual axes. As you progress you either find or unlock a new pair that may be a little larger, bigger axe heads, engravings on both the handles and axe heads. The more progress the more extravagant the weapons look. Maybe 5-10 weapons per class, per faction. That's a great amount to collect, adds replay value, looks cool, it's also not too much to call it loot.

Havemercy87
07-11-2015, 04:22 AM
I don't know if they have stats all I'm saying is, we know there is a progression system. I think the higher "rank" you are the more ornate weapons there can be. An example could be, a Viking with dual axes. As you progress you either find or unlock a new pair that may be a little larger, bigger axe heads, engravings on both the handles and axe heads. The more progress the more extravagant the weapons look. Maybe 5-10 weapons per class, per faction. That's a great amount to collect, adds replay value, looks cool, it's also not too much to call it loot.

Yes, exactly, thank you... More than 10, I won't call it loot I promise.

MisterWillow
07-11-2015, 05:18 AM
I don't know if they have stats all I'm saying is, we know there is a progression system. I think the higher "rank" you are the more ornate weapons there can be. An example could be, a Viking with dual axes. As you progress you either find or unlock a new pair that may be a little larger, bigger axe heads, engravings on both the handles and axe heads. The more progress the more extravagant the weapons look. Maybe 5-10 weapons per class, per faction. That's a great amount to collect, adds replay value, looks cool, it's also not too much to call it loot.

Sorry, it was my fault for going off on a tangent.

What I was saying about it being more about weapon customisation than weapon selection still applies, though, I think. Say, instead of unlocking new axes, you unlock new axe heads---all varying in size, shape, ornateness, etc.---or new axe handles---with varying length, girth, shape, and ornateness (let's say, one has runes carved into it, another has leather wrapped around it, and another has a metal end cap the shape of Fenrir's head)---and you would be able to mix and match to suit your own ęsthetic. That way, you could technically have a thousand different weapons.

And that's just axes. When you get to something like a bastard sword, you could switch out the blade, cross-guard, grip (leather wrapped, wire wrapped, half-and-half), and pommel, you have the potential to construct something relatively unique.

Same should apply to armour, too, but I don't really want to derail this thread any more than I have.

I am curious how unlocking these things could work, though. On the one hand, you could have a simple ranking system---where, as you rank up a certain Hero/class, you get a new unlock---or, you could have the unlocks tied to a sort of commendation system---where, if you perform something in battle, you gain an unlock (the most obvious is 'slay 500 Heroes', but could also be something more interesting like 'kill 2/3 Heroes with a single feat' or 'capture a point contested by two Heroes alone'---so, in the latter case, if someone sees you wearing a certain helmet, or carrying a certain sword, they hopefully think "oh, that guy did something amazing, they must be good, so I better be careful/stay away".

Havemercy87
07-11-2015, 12:39 PM
Sorry, it was my fault for going off on a tangent.

What I was saying about it being more about weapon customisation than weapon selection still applies, though, I think. Say, instead of unlocking new axes, you unlock new axe heads---all varying in size, shape, ornateness, etc.---or new axe handles---with varying length, girth, shape, and ornateness (let's say, one has runes carved into it, another has leather wrapped around it, and another has a metal end cap the shape of Fenrir's head)---and you would be able to mix and match to suit your own ęsthetic. That way, you could technically have a thousand different weapons.

And that's just axes. When you get to something like a bastard sword, you could switch out the blade, cross-guard, grip (leather wrapped, wire wrapped, half-and-half), and pommel, you have the potential to construct something relatively unique.

Same should apply to armour, too, but I don't really want to derail this thread any more than I have.

I love the customization you just explained. That would be awesome to have so many choices. That would make for some unique weapons and it would be geared toward what they're seem to want to do.


I am curious how unlocking these things could work, though. On the one hand, you could have a simple ranking system---where, as you rank up a certain Hero/class, you get a new unlock---or, you could have the unlocks tied to a sort of commendation system---where, if you perform something in battle, you gain an unlock (the most obvious is 'slay 500 Heroes', but could also be something more interesting like 'kill 2/3 Heroes with a single feat' or 'capture a point contested by two Heroes alone'---so, in the latter case, if someone sees you wearing a certain helmet, or carrying a certain sword, they hopefully think "oh, that guy did something amazing, they must be good, so I better be careful/stay away".

I believe it was Solid who mentioned this. To have an unlock system that requires certain actions say "killing 2/3 heroes with the same feat. " would likely have most players running around trying to accomplish upgrade requirements instead of focusing on teamwork. A rank unlock and purchase with xp system would work better.

Joe_Corleone
07-11-2015, 03:44 PM
I think that level of customization would be amazing, however I don't think that is how it's going to work. All I hope for is that each class, which from what I understand is 3 per faction, so 9 total, has more than just 1 weapon option. That's pretty much what it comes down to. This is a very different game from anything out right now, and could be a truly amazing new IP. I just need the substance to be there. My biggest fear is they will go the RYSE Son of Rome route, where there are tons of weapons but they all look identical. I know it's a little unrealistic to have such ornate weapons as most weapons of that time period were fairly plain (at least the ones used on the battlefield), but this IS a video game and I think they can give us a little fanfare with really amazing weapons to collect and use.

Havemercy87
07-11-2015, 06:39 PM
Honestly, your probably right. There will be weapon customization ,they've already stated that, but what depth is anyone's guess..

We can't count on it being Just 3 class per faction, J.V said at the masterclass that each faction will have several classes or heros. Also they said very firmly that each hero will have a specific weapon they can use, such as the warden will only use 2handed longswords and the oni will only use the katana.

I imagine that different choices of longsword will be available, that's where the blade will come from and then you can probably customize the guard, grip, and pommel of each. Just my speculation though. It's really all a guessing game right now though.

MisterWillow
07-11-2015, 06:59 PM
I think that level of customization would be amazing, however I don't think that is how it's going to work. All I hope for is that each class, which from what I understand is 3 per faction, so 9 total, has more than just 1 weapon option. That's pretty much what it comes down to. This is a very different game from anything out right now, and could be a truly amazing new IP. I just need the substance to be there. My biggest fear is they will go the RYSE Son of Rome route, where there are tons of weapons but they all look identical. I know it's a little unrealistic to have such ornate weapons as most weapons of that time period were fairly plain (at least the ones used on the battlefield), but this IS a video game and I think they can give us a little fanfare with really amazing weapons to collect and use.

They've said in at least one interview that each class will only have one weapon, so that each is different in look, feel, and playstyle. The example given was the Warden, which will always have the two handed sword shown in gameplay. That's why I think (or hope) they're going to have different components that you can interchange on the weapon (and armour) you're Hero/class has, to differentiate your Hero/class from everyone else's. Otherwise, I think there will end up being too many of the same looking characters, even if we're able to choose or create an emblem and choose armour color), at least later on.


I believe it was Solid who mentioned this. To have an unlock system that requires certain actions say "killing 2/3 heroes with the same feat. " would likely have most players running around trying to accomplish upgrade requirements instead of focusing on teamwork. A rank unlock and purchase with xp system would work better.

I can see that. I don't know how much I agree, necessarily, but I definitely see the potential for it to be a problem.

You could always work around this by tying the actions to objectives, like the 'capture a point occupied by 2 Heroes alone' one I mentioned. That would be a really high level one, though. Something like 'capture 20 objectives' could be a starting one.

I'm a little iffy on unlocking things with xp---not opposed 100%, but iffy. I like the idea of being gifted new things by your King/Shogun/Jarl as commendations for actions performed in battle. Maybe if you bought new things with plunder or something it would be more palatable, but that sort of design ethos only fits one of the three factions---"Your walls will be bare! Your treasury will be empty! No ring will rest upon 'noble' fingers! We shall take it all! Quake in Fear, Prepare for Death! None shall--" *aggressively clears throat* ahem; sorry, I don't quite know where that came from. Where was I? Right, it only fits one of the three factions, so that's out, unless they could simply call it 'spoils'. Just something that seems integral to the world.

They could always do a combination of the three---so you unlock some things through rank, are able to 'purchase' some things, and then there are things that you can only get by performing actions.

Solid_Altair
07-12-2015, 11:29 PM
I hope there are multiple swords, axes, pole arms, katanas, Naginatas, shields. They don't have to change stats but maybe become more ornate with carvings and engravings different hilts, blades, axe heads. Something to show progression. Give us players something to collect, and give us our choice of weapon to go into battle with. It covers progression, replay ability, and possessions or things to collect. Really hope this is in the game.
This.

More damage for an upgraded weapon or more HP for an upgraded aromor would be bad. It would create an unfair abyss of raw power between beginners and veterans. It would also make the weaker weapons unusable, even if some players like how they look. It would be a waste.

The mechanic proggression should be qualitative (different classes and feats), not quantitative +damage and +HP.

Havemercy87
07-13-2015, 01:07 AM
More damage for an upgraded weapon or more HP for an upgraded aromor would be bad. It would create an unfair abyss of raw power between beginners and veterans. It would also make the weaker weapons unusable, even if some players like how they look. It would be a waste.

The mechanic proggression should be qualitative (different classes and feats), not quantitative +damage and +HP.

Don't get me wrong guys, I agree with this 100%. I just keep thinking back to what they said about matchmaking at the masterclass. It could go either way at this point. Hopefully they'll take the advice

Joe_Corleone
07-13-2015, 05:09 PM
Even if different weapons do change stats on weapons, I just hope we are not stuck with one weapon per class. I just feel as if different armor is fine and great for customization. I just want to see my characters progression through his/her weapons more. I really can't imagine they wouldn't have multiple weapons per each class, but it is a possibility they could just have one weapon per class. I do think that would be a wildly missed opportunity to keep people playing for a long time. If recent games have taught us anything it's that gamers want more variation and control over who they play as. If I'm a Warden in the Knight faction it like mutiple two handed swords to chose from as opposed to wielding the same sword the entire game.

Havemercy87
07-13-2015, 07:13 PM
Even if different weapons do change stats on weapons, I just hope we are not stuck with one weapon per class. I just feel as if different armor is fine and great for customization. I just want to see my characters progression through his/her weapons more. I really can't imagine they wouldn't have multiple weapons per each class, but it is a possibility they could just have one weapon per class. I do think that would be a wildly missed opportunity to keep people playing for a long time. If recent games have taught us anything it's that gamers want more variation and control over who they play as. If I'm a Warden in the Knight faction it like mutiple two handed swords to chose from as opposed to wielding the same sword the entire game.

No worries Joe, you'll be in good hands with Ubisoft Montreal

Joe_Corleone
07-13-2015, 08:38 PM
I really hope you're right HaveMercy.

guest-7lONTXP5
07-17-2015, 02:21 PM
You can see armor and weapong customization here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8plBv7YX4 ...sry don't wanted to search an extra image or something^^

Joe_Corleone
07-17-2015, 05:25 PM
You can see armor and weapong customization here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8plBv7YX4 ...sry don't wanted to search an extra image or something^^

It was a solid podcast, but doesn't really answer any questions on the weapons. It's not something they saw or Ubi is talking about it seems like. As much as I have interest in the game, I'm getting the feeling that there probably won't be the the same weapon options or customization I'm hoping for. I know each class has different weapons, but hoping for multi weapons per class. For example as I've stated before, the warden in the knight faction uses a two handed sword. I'd like to see multiple two handed swords to choose from.

guest-7lONTXP5
07-17-2015, 06:58 PM
Look at the picture closely ;). Seems like i really should have looked for the image only :rolleyes:

Joe_Corleone
07-18-2015, 12:42 AM
I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing anything. What I'm I supposed to be looking for?

Havemercy87
07-18-2015, 03:57 AM
You can see armor and weapong customization here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d8plBv7YX4 ...sry don't wanted to search an extra image or something^^

Both the Wardens in the picture have different swords. I was staring at it for 40mins and didn't register it. Nice catch

guest-7lONTXP5
07-18-2015, 11:05 AM
Thought everybody already knows about this :D

Joe_Corleone
07-18-2015, 04:07 PM
Wow. I can't believe I didn't see that. Nice job noticing. Hopefully we will get some new info soon.

Havemercy87
07-18-2015, 04:12 PM
Thought everybody already knows about this :D

Most of us do know, I just didn't realize that the pic had different swords lol

Joe_Corleone
07-18-2015, 09:44 PM
Now I'm lost again. What do we all know?

Fatal-Feit
07-18-2015, 10:56 PM
I hope there are multiple swords, axes, pole arms, katanas, Naginatas, shields. They don't have to change stats but maybe become more ornate with carvings and engravings different hilts, blades, axe heads. Something to show progression. Give us players something to collect, and give us our choice of weapon to go into battle with. It covers progression, replay ability, and possessions or things to collect. Really hope this is in the game.


From what I've gathered from interviews and stuff, this is how weapon customization works:

* There are 3 distinct factions with several heroes each.

* Each hero will come with their own unique weapon.

* Each weapon can be heavily customized. (dunno if that means stats, but definitely cosmetics)

* Heroes cannot change their weapon.

So, the customization you want seems likely to be there, but if you want to use a different weapon, you will have to choose a different hero (that may be in another faction) that specializes in that weapon.

Havemercy87
07-19-2015, 12:42 AM
From what I've gathered from interviews and stuff, this is how weapon customization works:

* There are 3 distinct factions with several heroes each.

* Each hero will come with their own unique weapon.

* Each weapon can be heavily customized. (dunno if that means stats, but definitely cosmetics)

* Heroes cannot change their weapon.

So, the customization you want seems likely to be there, but if you want to use a different weapon, you will have to choose a different hero (that may be in another faction) that specializes in that weapon.

Well said and explained

Dead1y-Derri
07-19-2015, 12:51 AM
From what I've gathered from interviews and stuff, this is how weapon customization works:

* There are 3 distinct factions with several heroes each.

* Each hero will come with their own unique weapon.

* Each weapon can be heavily customized. (dunno if that means stats, but definitely cosmetics)

* Heroes cannot change their weapon.

So, the customization you want seems likely to be there, but if you want to use a different weapon, you will have to choose a different hero (that may be in another faction) that specializes in that weapon.

Thanks for this well explained explanation.

Joe_Corleone
07-19-2015, 01:12 AM
From what I've gathered from interviews and stuff, this is how weapon customization works:

* There are 3 distinct factions with several heroes each.

* Each hero will come with their own unique weapon.

* Each weapon can be heavily customized. (dunno if that means stats, but definitely cosmetics)

* Heroes cannot change their weapon.

So, the customization you want seems likely to be there, but if you want to use a different weapon, you will have to choose a different hero (that may be in another faction) that specializes in that weapon.

Thank you so much for spelling it out for me. I should have known, but I'm trying to gather info on so many games right now. Very well informed now. Cannot wait for this game. Thank you again Fatal, Mercy, and everyone else.

Fatal-Feit
07-19-2015, 03:15 AM
Glad my assessment helped. ^^

Deadshot.
07-23-2015, 07:21 PM
They could always do a combination of the three---so you unlock some things through rank, are able to 'purchase' some things, and then there are things that you can only get by performing actions.

I think this would be the most feasible idea for weapons. That being said - I still hope that the 'different' weapons are simply for aesthetic purposes (somewhat similar to the weapons in AC multiplayer).
One of the problems with unlocking better damage/block weapons via specific actions - is that people would boost these actions, so it wouldn't necessarily mean they have the skill - just the time.

What I WOULD like with different looking weapons, would be different animations to go with them. But that's simply a want - not a need.

Havemercy87
07-23-2015, 09:33 PM
What I WOULD like with different looking weapons, would be different animations to go with them. But that's simply a want - not a need.

Definitely need this! Each weapon should have it's own kill animation. I believe the way it will go is you get a new weapon and then customize it. Every new weapon should have it's own kill animation. Or for something like forging your own weapon, you should get to pick kill animations for it..

Willaguy2010
07-24-2015, 04:02 AM
In the new trailer that came out, a legions knight had a shield and flail!

Havemercy87
07-24-2015, 04:09 AM
Yes Sir he did! I can't wait to get on that :)

Solid_Altair
07-24-2015, 06:19 PM
I'm a little iffy on unlocking things with xp---not opposed 100%, but iffy. I like the idea of being gifted new things by your King/Shogun/Jarl as commendations for actions performed in battle... and then there are things that you can only get by performing actions.
Nooo! Having to perform specific actions to unlock stuff is terrible. People end up playing for the unlocks instead of playing to win through teamwork.

I dunno if you were also in the other thread where I mentioned this, but: Killzone Shadowfall was pretty much ruined by this logic.

Generic XP ain't so pretty but is the way to go. And let us choose what to buy with it, instead of just unlocking X upon reaching rank Y.

I wish they'd do something in these lines:

Player starts at level 1, with one class per faction, with a default full loadout (all slots filled in by something), so he doesn't start with a raw power disadvantage. The proggression would be more about getting new options. He gains generic xp to increase their level, needing more and more XP for each new level (the usual scaling in this kind of proggression).

At level 2 player unlocks a class of his choosing.

At level 3 player unlocks a feat of his choosing.

At level 4 player unlocks a cosmetic element of his choosing.
_____

5 = another class he chooses

6 = another feat he chooses

7 = another cosmetic element he chooses
_____
...

14 = the last class

15 = feat

16 = cosmetic
_____

17 = cosmetic

18 = feat

19 = cosmetic

Until the last feat, after which all unlocks would be cosmetic.

And let us keep in mind that cosmetics don't need to be about the character's visual. They could also be about emblems and stuff like this. The only thing that could be unlocked by specific actions, imo, would be titles... like... winning a bunch of games with the Oni gives you the title Deadly. It'd be just a way to signal your preference for a character or a play style. But all mechanical gameplay elements shoul dbe unlocked by XP.

MisterWillow
07-24-2015, 07:59 PM
I'm only talking about unlocking cosmetic elements, not feats, skills, enhancements, or anything else that would affect the mechanics.

Killzone's system involved unlocking more skills and weapons, which is why people ignored skills they didn't need to use to unlock something else. Killzone 2 did progression (and everything else) better, I thought, because you started with a gadget, used that gadget to unlock another gadget, and then you were done. The only initial gadget that was immediately rendered obsolete by the one you unlocked was the Medic's heal-pack, because you got the revive gun. And the only gun you unlocked was the magnum, which you could get easily through the community-made pistol-only lobbies.

None of that would apply here, though, since (as far as we're aware), every bit of visual customisation (including emblems and/or titles) is purely cosmetic. I just like the idea of meeting someone on the battlefield and knowing, at a glance, that they're skilled, purely by the pieces of armour, or the weapon, they have. It shouldn't apply to everything---or even to most things---but it would be cool, thematically, to be bestowed a helmet (or whatever), by your factions' leader for outstanding actions in battle. I even said, later in the post you're quoting, that they could have a combination of rank, purchase, and actions determine cosmetic unlocks.

Havemercy87
07-25-2015, 01:30 AM
@Solid- I'm not a fan of having to unlock/purchase a new class/hero. They should all be available. Maybe a new hero of that class, each new hero has a special finishing move, feat, or cosmetic aesthetic that you can only use when playing that hero. But each class should be available from the start.

I partially agree with Willow, it would be cool to have a leader of your people to give you something, at least thematically and who knows that may be something we see on the campaign. I stated in another thread, to have team oriented objective unlocks such as winning so many matches, your team recovered the flag so many times, or successfully stole the flag so many times, I would be Ok with. And that's just cosmetic stuff anyway, feats and perks, gear should be bought with experience.

Edit: you shouldn't get the objective recognized unless you finish the match, so in the problem of ppl leaving mid-match, you leave you no get award.

MisterWillow
07-25-2015, 01:58 AM
@Solid- I'm not a fan of having to unlock/purchase a new class/hero. They should all be available. Maybe a new hero of that class, each new hero has a special finishing move, feat, or cosmetic aesthetic that you can only use when playing that hero. But each class should be available from the start.

Edit: you shouldn't get the objective recognized unless you finish the match, so in the problem of ppl leaving mid-match, you leave you no get award.

Yes to all that, but especially the edit.