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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:22 AM
What new aircraft will be added in the patch? I know that the P-51 will be in it but what other planes will be in it that you know of.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:22 AM
What new aircraft will be added in the patch? I know that the P-51 will be in it but what other planes will be in it that you know of.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:26 AM
Not sure about the P-51 being in first patch. I would expect I-16 carrying TB-3, IAR.80/81, and the Me-163 in the patch maybe. In the addon (about 2 months later) I would expect a huge amount of planes, P-51, Bf-110, Ta-152, He-162, just to name a few.

But then again everything is subject to change so I am just guessing.

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:29 AM
Do you mean a........ addon that cost cash...... I just want the P-51 right now...... they can put the totally new aircraft it the addon....

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:40 AM
There's gonna be Hell to pay if the P-51 isn't in the patch, and we end up having to pay for it in an add-on, especially if UBI decides to try and charge full game price like they did with FB, let's face it, FB is and add-on, a spectacular one, but still just an add-on.

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:52 AM
You might want to try a question mark instead of an exclamation point in the title there, genius.

-------
I'm just saying...


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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:53 AM
I for one will be very pi$$ed if the P-51 isnt in the patch. Especially since the cockpit was done a while ago. There is no reason for it not to be other than greed.

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 08:56 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but building a 3D-model of anything doesn't make it fly, does it? For a realistic model of the plane you need to get the flight characteristics right and the damage model. So my guess is, that it takes a helluva time.

The simple fact of the matter is, that no-one here knows which planes will be in the patch, which planes will be in the add-on, or if there even will be an add-on.

My personal guess is that the patch will include a Sopwith Camel with a Merlin engine, and that it will be released the 3rd of August at 8.44 am, but that's just MY guess ...

cheers/slush

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michapma
07-02-2003, 09:09 AM
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oleg is a money-grubbing scrooge. People, the P-51 is coming. Isn't that enough? Forgotten Battles definitely deserves to be a full-price add-on. The coming add-on will not be full price.

Better stop while I'm ahead. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-mad.gif

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center"><font color="#">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%"><font color="#">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</font></td><td align="center">

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<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></font></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top"><font color="#">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</font></td></tr></table>

michapma
07-02-2003, 09:14 AM
Okay, so I'm a little grumpy today. Guess I'm also tired of people misconstruing Oleg's perfectionism as greed.

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center"><font color="#">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%"><font color="#">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</font></td><td align="center">

<font color="#">SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></font></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top"><font color="#">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</font></td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 09:15 AM
Bearcat99 wrote:
- I for one will be very pi$$ed if the P-51 isnt in
- the patch. Especially since the cockpit was done a
- while ago. There is no reason for it not to be other
- than greed.

Takes a little more than that to p!$$ me off - I´m just happy that Oleg&Co cares about this at all - hey they could just have released FB & left it at there... Think of anything comming after the release as a bonus. Besides - a patch for fixing issues & bugs while an addon is for adding new stuff right? Patience, my friend - patience.

S!

M0NS



"Blow up the outside world"

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My garage!

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 09:20 AM
Bearcat, what did you do with the real Bearcat?


Thats two somewhat negative/hostile posts from you in one day, what is going on? Are you all right? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm just having fun, I don't mean to pi$$ you off further.

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 09:30 AM
BTW - Bearcat, if you´re having a bad day then why don´t you come over to HL & shoot me down a couple of times - I won´t take any evasive action - I promise. Might cheer you up m8?

S!

M0NS



"Blow up the outside world"

http://www.flugwerk.de/images/01k.jpg
My garage!

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 11:02 AM
The P-51 is not in the patch. Only the TB-3 with I-16's and Me 163 are. All other planes are being diverted to an "addon" which probebly means free upgrade, but I can't say for sure. This is not speculation, I KNOW this to be true.

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As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 11:04 AM
To call FB an addon is an insult for all the work that went into making the game.

If it needs the original game to run its an addon, if not - then its a sequal.

enough said.


--
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:FI:Kitty

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 11:09 AM
No Text

Message Edited on 07/02/0305:09AM by Maj_Death

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 11:10 AM
No text? then whats the point?

--
Sl inte,
:FI:Kitty

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Fightin' Irish Squad (http://www.fighting-irish.org/)

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 11:47 AM
I agree with M0NS. Patience, patience! The patch is almost here.


Miss-Kitten wrote:
- No text? then whats the point?
-
---
- Sl inte,
- :FI:Kitty
-

Self-censorship?

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 12:07 PM
I like new airplanes, but I personally will be happy just to see the patch fix the bugs, etc...



S!
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michapma
07-02-2003, 03:22 PM
The patch/add-on thing is like FB itself. Oleg and crew could have held on to FB and released it this summer after more extensive beta testing. Would we have been happy about that? (I wouldn't have complained.) Remember how we were clamoring for it? Instead they felt it was ready for release. Now after release they continued developing it, because they weren't 100% satisfied with everything the way it was. This is quite apart from the problems and "bugs" that have cropped up since FB's release. Things like ballistics and flight models and complexity of engine modeling and online performance and the sound engine and and and&mdash;they didn't let every little detail prevent FB's release, even though FB was sufficiently richly featured and bug-free to release.

That's where the patch comes in, just like for IL-2. There were things promised (?) for FB that aren't in its release. Note that the Mustang is in the initial release. I don't recall straight off if a flyable Mustang was promised for FB before its release. In any case, all of the things that they already wanted to improve when FB came out plus the list of problems and bugs that have manifested themselves are being addressed in the patch. Wonder why that takes a few months? Wow, a whole quarter of a year it is taking them, they should be ashamed! Even though FB is perfectly stable and playable. (Rolls eyes.) And guess what? Workaholics and dedicated developers that they are, Oleg and 1C:Maddox also have some new planes to bring out for free along with the rest of the over hundred fixes in the patch.

What's more, there are yet more planes, several in fact, that are in development but not yet finished, although the patch is now ready. Should the patch be held up to wait for those planes, or should they listen to all of the voices begging and pleading for an immediate release of the patch, and release those planes in a later add-on, perhaps along with some further scenery?

Should they sell their souls to the devil so they can meet everyone's demands for all the planes and all the fixes and all for free?

Should they be financially compensated for their hard work and dedication?

I really hope you get your flyable P-51. But as MajD says, it won't be in the patch. So go ahead and get upset now; we'll be too busy after the patch to listen to you.

/i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 03:45 PM
While I agree that I can't wait for the patch in hopes that the bugs are fixed and that should be seperate from the new flyable aircraft totally. But whatever flyable a/c there are and add them after the patch IMHO. But I think what Bearcat is getting at is the persistent rumor of a paid add-on which will include the Mustang. This is where we are getting pi$$ed, that UBI (Not Oleg) thinks they can hold the Mustang over our heads and expect us to pay for the add-on. If the Mustang wasn't already in the game (And by the way I do remember it being promised flyable on release, but my memory could be wrong) and therefore should not be in a "paid for" add-on if that is even the case. Myself I will wait and see if this rumor becomes reality, because I truely doubt that is the case. If it is I wont pay for it just on the principle of the matter call me a pridefull a$$hat so be it. Don't get me wrong I see nothing wrong with paying for totally new a/c in an add-on, but not for planes already in the game i.e Mustang, BF110.
~S!
Eagle
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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 03:49 PM
The following planes will be in the first patch (the one we'll get next week or this)

IAR-80
IAR-81a
Me-163
Tb-3

I can say this with 80% certainty.

Oh, and listen. There has been NO official statement yet as to wether the plane patch will be payware of freeware. It's just a rumour started here and carried way too far, like they always do on these boards. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>
---------------------------------------
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</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:01 PM
Jellis wrote:
- Miss-Kitten wrote:
-- No text? then whats the point?
--
- Self-censorship?

Ah, I didn't realize you cant remove your own message.

Oh, did I mention that this forum software is crap? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


--
Sl inte,
:FI:Kitty

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/amatullah/fis01.jpg
Fightin' Irish Squad (http://www.fighting-irish.org/)

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:05 PM
Yeah, I said something I shouldn't have. So I removed it.

----------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

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As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:07 PM
I don't understand the thinking of not putting the P-51 in the patch. If there were no planes at all, then it's understandable. If the P-51 is going to be put in a pay-for addon.It's understandable. However, if it's done, and is only going to be added to a free addon later. Feck! Put it in the patch now.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/molders8.jpg

michapma
07-02-2003, 04:13 PM
I'd agree with that, Buzz, and I'm convinced that's the way Oleg thinks too. So either the add-on will have to be paid for (I hope not, but only because of the whining and ripping that would go on) or else it must not be fully ready for the current patch.

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:25 PM
Well, whatever is in it is already done so we will know shortly. I bet there are only 2 aircraft in the patch and the rest will be in the add-on which will be free. At some later date I think we will see another bigger ADDON for a fee but it should include more upgrades and new aircraft.

"Nothing difficult is ever easy"

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 08:36 PM
how do you guys know what's in the patch? Im not doubting you just wondering.

~aaron white

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 08:43 PM
the p51d is going on the payware addon, so it boosts sales. ju88 ta152 bf110 new external and many others. I could be misinformed which i doubt but we will see in a couple months

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 08:50 PM
leadspitter got it right. if the pay add on for planes just has jets not many will buy it. if the add on has the mustang EVERYONE will buy it. i cant blame them . i mean if you had to choose releasing a game and walking away like cfs3 and JAS . or this with paying for it ill take this any day...but man....the delay on the mustang is killing me. also think of this. they were going to release the mustang as a mediocre plane and probably are now making sure its a cutting edge fighter plane which is competitive .......

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 09:26 PM
I have no problem paying for addon planes, my only fear is that they would try to do some theme type thing (jets, LW 1946, etc.) and only include certain planes, and hold others for another themed addon. I hope they release an addon called (for example), "Forgotten Battles, Timeline" that includes numerous different types of planes ranging from the early Gloster Gladiator to the Go.229. Actually, it would be pretty cool, they could have a timeline on the back of the box showing when all of the new planes entered service.

http://user.tninet.se/~ytm843e/graham4.jpg

RichardI
07-02-2003, 09:43 PM
Paying for add-on planes? I guess it depends on the planes and the price. I wouldn't pay squat for the planes I'm being told are included with the patch. So, I guess if you want the planes in the add-on bad enough, you'll pay for them?
Interesting that the P-51 will not be included, don't you think? Maybe it's fair that if you want the planes you pay for them?
I wonder how the volunteers that made them would feel about that.......hmmm.

<Center>http://www.ghosts.com/images/postimages/THUNDERBOLT.jpg <Center>I've got 140 109's cornered over Berlin!

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 10:49 PM
RichardI wrote:
- Paying for add-on planes? I guess it depends on the
- planes and the price. I wouldn't pay squat for the
- planes I'm being told are included with the patch.
- So, I guess if you want the planes in the add-on bad
- enough, you'll pay for them?
- Interesting that the P-51 will not be included,
- don't you think? Maybe it's fair that if you want
- the planes you pay for them?
- I wonder how the volunteers that made them would
- feel about that.......hmmm.

Excellent point, not very fair since they did alot of hard work for free, I hope they will be properly paid for their work if it is a pay for add-on. But unfortunately I wont be paying for a add-on I only want one plane from.
I will still wait and hear it for sure or maybe we wil all be suprised when the patch is released, which is what I am crossing my fingers for.
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center> <center> www.361stvfg.com</center> (http://www.361stvfg.com</center>)

<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/CindyII.jpg> </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 11:05 PM
The only upcoming plane I really want is the Bf 110C4/B. All the others I have little or no interest in. Because of that, I hope the "addon" is free. If it isn't, then I just won't be flying the Bf 110C4/B. FB is an addon itself (stand alone addon, but still an addon), I will not buy an addon for an addon. Especially with all the shortcomings of FB that will likely never be fixed.

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I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 01:59 AM
HeavyDelta wrote:
- You might want to try a question mark instead of an
- exclamation point in the title there, genius.
-
--------

I can put a exclamation point where ever I want to it is my post!

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 02:07 AM
The flyable P-51 was supposed to be in FB when it came out. Its ok with me that it did not make the release, but if I have to pay for a another expansion just to get my P-51 I will be annoyed.

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 06:27 AM
Timber,

Where did you get the idea, that the P-51 was supposed to be in FB when it was released?

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/molders8.jpg

michapma
07-03-2003, 08:18 AM
Since it's not really a question of the money I'll be able to afford a pay-ware add-on, and I'll support 1C:Maddox with the purchase and be happy about it. (I don't even mind UbiSoft making some money from me.) I can understand that those with a tight budget might not be happy about it, but I really struggle with the idea of not buying it "out of principle." (I am not thinking of any specific person here.)Since when is paying someone for a product that they've worked hard on against principle?

Anyway, if we suppose that the add-on will be pay-ware, I wonder how that will affect online play? Obviously those who don't have it won't be 100% compatible with those who do...


Mike

Edit: upps

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

Message Edited on 07/03/0309:18AM by michapma

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 08:21 AM
I know the TB-3 with 2 I-16's and the IAR-80/81 WILL be in the patch. The P-51 is a maybe. The He-162 and the Me-163 are done, but will most likley be released in an add-on like Oleg said later on with the Gotha and P-80. Lets wait till Oleg speaks.

Gib

"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

<center>
http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/sig01.jpg (http://gibbageart.havagame.com)
</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 08:54 AM
this needs to be shouted


HAS ANYONE FROM UBI ACTUALLY CONFIRMED THERE IS GOING TO BE AN ADDON THAT WE MUST PAY FOR???


People are saying that we will have to pay for the plane addon yet I have not heard anything official from Ubi about this. Sounds like internet BS to me.
Calm down guys, you'll get you P51, FOR FREE!!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 11:23 AM
yes there is going to ba a ADD-ON realeased ... Oleg himself posted that at ORR ... he said he was looking for someone to publish it ... the only reason ppl at these boards know that the IR-80 & Tb3 are in the coming patch is because Gibbage1 has flowen the coming patch & told us about them being there ,...

my reckoning is that the ADD-ON is going to be so worthwhile getting because UBI will have some awesome planes in it ...
I.E. planes that people are waiting for .... popular planes .... that have the word " Mustang " in their name ...

if there were just maps , & FMB options on the ADD-ON & i knew it id still be the first pre-order of it in my country

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 12:17 PM
I dont think anyone said paid add-on. Oleg just said add-on to be announced once he gets back.

Yes I got to fly the IR-80 and the TB3 with fighters, but I also got to fly the Me-163. Also Oleg said the P-51 and He-162 were in the game, but not in this build. That does not mean it will be in the patch. Just the IR-80 and the TB3 is guaranteed. From the last I heard, the P-51 and Me-163's are "maybe's". I guess it depends on a lot of factors we dont know about. But I can guarantee you the He-162 will not be in the patch.

Gib

WUAF_Badsight wrote:
- yes there is going to ba a ADD-ON realeased ... Oleg
- himself posted that at ORR ... he said he was
- looking for someone to publish it ... the only
- reason ppl at these boards know that the IR-80 & Tb3
- are in the coming patch is because Gibbage1 has
- flowen the coming patch & told us about them being
- there ,...
-
- my reckoning is that the ADD-ON is going to be so
- worthwhile getting because UBI will have some
- awesome planes in it ...
- I.E. planes that people are waiting for ....
- popular planes .... that have the word " Mustang "
- in their name ...
-
-
- if there were just maps , & FMB options on the
- ADD-ON & i knew it id still be the first pre-order
- of it in my country
-
-



"You dont win a war by dieing for your country. You win a war by making the other fool die for his country."

<center>
http://gibbageart.havagame.com/images/sig01.jpg (http://gibbageart.havagame.com)
</center>

michapma
07-03-2003, 12:28 PM
I'm still with Recon. I'm more concerned about all the cool things that are going to be improved by the patch, it really drowns out any concern over a few new planes, even the Mustang.

I'm excited about the patch!

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 04:32 PM
Gibbage, there is no point in saying "no one said paid addon", these people are obsessed with paying for it even if its free/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif .

----------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 04:49 PM
Well if I were the developer I would at last understand now, that ӰVERYONE would wetten himself if he was given the chance to pay for it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif .


Il2's add-ons were free then.

Oh, I forgot the "FB add-on" got a stand-alone sim thereafter.

Plz.stop begging for a payware add-on.There's not only employees and mother's darlings into playing this great sim.

And computer games are expensive anyway...

If the add-on was about the '46 stuff or the 'stang I would give a F*** anyway (p-38 would be cool though)...

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 07:58 PM
i just want to shot down i16 with 8mm machine gun
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 10:11 PM
Bearcat99 wrote:
- I for one will be very pi$$ed if the P-51 isnt in
- the patch. Especially since the cockpit was done a
- while ago. There is no reason for it not to be other
- than greed.

What on earth has greed got to do with it?

As I understand it there will be a patch to fix
bugs, and then a download with additional planes
in. Both free.

Given that Oleg was the one working on finalising
the P51 if the P51 isn't flyable just from the patch
it might have something to do with him being ill.

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 10:15 PM
Or maybe they just don't want the patch to be 200mb. So they break it up into a dedicated patch (50-75mb) with a couple new planes to hold us off, and then they create a free addon that is 100mb. That approach makes the most sense.

----------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 10:15 PM
michapma wrote:
- Okay, so I'm a little grumpy today. Guess I'm also
- tired of people misconstruing Oleg's perfectionism
- as greed.

Huh?? The problems with FB are considered "perfectionism"??? I think you lost me there m8 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

<center>http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/images/uk654.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 10:19 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- I don't understand the thinking of not putting the
- P-51 in the patch. If there were no planes at all,
- then it's understandable. If the P-51 is going to be
- put in a pay-for addon.It's understandable. However,
- if it's done, and is only going to be added to a
- free addon later. Feck! Put it in the patch now.

I'm assuming that the 3D modelling is done, but
since Oleg was going to be doing the FM for the P51
perhaps given his illness that's not complete and/or
what time he has had to work has been spent addressing
bugs with the physics model? I wouldn't assume that
the P51 is complete. Plus if the physics model is
being tweaked, then the P51 FM may need to be tweaked
once that is fixed, which takes longer. Given the hoo-har
over the Fw190 and P-47 flight models if I was Oleg
I'd delay the P51 release until all the physics model
issues are fixed and the P51 FM has been tested very
extensively to avoid the boards being jammed with
complaints.

With the Me163, and the IARs there is less data and
possibly (dare I say) less interest in the FMs, so if
they are a little off less people will notice/care, but
a lot of people care about the P51, and have lots of
documentation - or have even flown the real thing!

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 10:21 PM
the way people have been yearning and screaming for the P-51 UBI would be out of their minds not to put it into a pay-for add on. it's probably their last chance to milk some money out of Il2/FB. doesn't matter if it's fair or not - they do have a business to run.
i just hope the guys who modelled the planes for free will get something out of it.

<center>Another BlitzPig</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 10:49 PM
If they save the P-51 for a payware addon, I wouldn't mind. Cause I don't care for that plane. I just hope the third party stuff makes it in free addons. And no one has said anything about a payware addon. So this whole debate is moot.

----------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 11:18 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- I don't understand the thinking of not putting the
- P-51 in the patch. If there were no planes at all,
- then it's understandable. If the P-51 is going to be
- put in a pay-for addon.It's understandable. However,
- if it's done, and is only going to be added to a
- free addon later. Feck! Put it in the patch now.
-
- Da Buzz

The P-51 may not be done, even though the cockpit is finalised. Remember, they are trying to include the lead computing gunsight into the aircraft, and that may be causing some significant problems.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:05 AM
Ta Heck wit' the 'stang!

I'm just eager to try to (hopefully it lets me) reattach my I-16 to the TB3 in flight! That, plus the fixes, would be enough of a patch for me!


Tim Schuster
8MXS Inspection Section
Kunsan AB, Korea

-Defend the Dock!
-Accept Follow-on Shifts!
-Take the Fight Upstairs!

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:10 AM
I want a new award for the member who is quoted the most../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/molders8.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:26 AM
Right Buzz, You'll have to start a post for that contest. I reckon you'll have stiff competition from RBJ, although most people quote him in, shall we say, a not so positive way?

Regarding the patch, I was thoroughly impressed with IL-2 and the free plane patch/add-on they brought out. It made me a firm supporter of Oleg and 1C. I would be impressed if they continued the free plane patches/add-ons, but I would not begrudge them earing a bit from the work they do.

Cheers, from Tasmania

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:43 AM
Maj_Death wrote:
- Or maybe they just don't want the patch to be 200mb.
- So they break it up into a dedicated patch (50-75mb)
- with a couple new planes to hold us off, and then
- they create a free addon that is 100mb. That
- approach makes the most sense.



I don`t think UBI`s approach is like this.Certainly the bug fixing patch will be for free.It would be just stupid to not squish us for more cash with a payware plane-only addon though.And I think they will.Online compatibility doesn`t matter anyway (5% customers).


IMO placing P51(and other aircraft done long ago) in that payware addon would be a <u>real</u> ripoff.


"degustibus non disputandum"

<center>http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 01:58 AM
The problem with sticking all the new planes in a payware addon is that it could cause alot of legal problems. Most of the new planes are made by third parties. And while Gibbage doesn't seem to care if we have to pay for his planes, others modelers might. However, it is possible that we are both right. 1C:Maddox may release the third party planes for free in future patches/free addons, and at the same time make a payware addon featuring the P-51 and other planes done by 1C:Maddox. But only time will tell, and it looks like the amount of time we will have to wait is only around 12-15 hours/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .

----------------------------------------
I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 02:22 AM
Aardvark892 wrote:
- I'm just eager to try to (hopefully it lets me)
- reattach my I-16 to the TB3 in flight! That, plus
- the fixes, would be enough of a patch for me!
-
Unfortunately for you, the I-16s didn't reattach after launching ala Crimson Skies, but had to wing it back on thier own. The parasite concept was just a way to extend the Ratas' range. But it will be interesting, that's for sure.

michapma
07-04-2003, 10:29 AM
Please name for me which changes in the patch are items that make the game virtually unplayable, or are blatant bugs. When the patch comes out with its list of fixes, we'll compare it to your list and see how many of the fixes were just about getting it better and getting it right. Think about the fixes Oleg brings compared to the fixes in patches for other simulators.

So I'm saying that not every problem FB has is about perfectionism, but most of the changes in the patch are.

Major D, what are you talking about with the 12&ndash;15 hours?

Mike

h009291 wrote:
-
- michapma wrote:
-- Okay, so I'm a little grumpy today. Guess I'm also
-- tired of people misconstruing Oleg's perfectionism
-- as greed.
-
- Huh?? The problems with FB are considered
- "perfectionism"??? I think you lost me there m8
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
-
- <center><IMG
- src="http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/image
- s/uk654.jpg">
-



<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 10:44 AM
the P51 question turn to obsession lol don t you know that under 4000m a FwA8 can beat a P51 in dogfight haha the P51 is good at hight altitude guy so you will be surprised by you mustang's FM.

and what about the TA152 in the patch ?

<A HREF=http://www.normandieniemen.firstream.net/</A>pilotes/profils/enigmus.jpg">


NN_EnigmuS.
Normandie Niemen virtuel.
http://www.normandieniemen.firstream.net/

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:00 PM
Hmmm... Maybe Gibbage or one of the other third-party builders could tell us if they had to sign any legal documents when they sent their models to 1C?? If they had to agree to give up any and all rights to profits, for instance, or if they are guaranteed a share, that could tell us something about what to expect.

Of course the patch has to be free. Oleg's customer service has been excellent, and patches are part of the service. But I don't see any reason to expect endless additions to the game without a chance for 1C to profit from their efforts. I also would be delighted to see our third-party developers get a bit of money for their excellent work.

If the new planes have to be paid for, so be it, and bring on the Med!

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:38 PM
Damn, got beaten to the point.

Usually in these things the people you "hand" over your work to get exclusive ownership of it etc etc.

As for this payware/freeware argument, the point about it dividing up the community into haves and have nots is a worthy one.

If we must get a payware addon, I hope that it is released near simultaneously (ie within a week of everyone) around the world (everywhere FB went at least). I can't imagine anything more infuriating than the rest of the world having to wait 3-6 weeks (AGAIN>/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif while people in the US gloat about getting it first and then complain about this and that not being right.

That's the good thing about downloadable patches. From UBI and Oleg's POV it saves the gripes about delays, it doesn't cost as much as making, printing, packaging, transporting and market a pay-ware add-on, and it retains fan-base.

For what it's worth, an old post (Feb 1st) on Luthier's il2center referred to a free update after FB came out. Whether this is the patch or relates to an aircraft addon I don't know.

"After FB goes Gold Oleg will be contacting third party aircraft developers to see what can be included in the first free update. If you have a plane almost ready please contact me (Luthier) so I can get a prospective list together for Oleg. The update will appear soon after FB is released...."

And, for those after the P-51, how soon will you be back complaining it isn't right if you can't shoot down large numbers of planes easily? I think some of you might just get a shock when your "uber" plane comes out /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

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Beauty is only skin deep. Ugly, on the other hand goes all the way to the
bone.

Lt.Percy: "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do ?"
Blackadder: "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."

Hawgdog
07-04-2003, 12:52 PM
Owl_NZ wrote:
I hope that it is
- released near simultaneously while people in the US
- gloat about....

Even tho I enjoy gloating and believe me, you get used to quickly, I cant imagine why they didnt make us wait or release it all within days. I understand shipping woes, warehousing headaches, but two weeks is agravating


so.........I hear August for the patch now?

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