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hypershadw
07-09-2015, 01:27 AM
I was wondering what your opinion of having Modern Day separate from the Ancestor as an option for players. Personally I love the Modern Day story-lines and want them to be much more fleshed out. However I know that there are people who believes that it takes them out of the game's immersion. So I was thinking what if there was a compromise? Having three options. One would be the original storyline as intended by the author to be moving back and forth from the past to the present called 'Merged'. The second option would be fully the past. Call it 'Ancestor Mode' and all modern day story segments would be cut out for those who do not like them. The third option would be 'Modern Mode' in which those who prefer the modern day to play that story uninterrupted as well. I think that the best Modern Day of Assassin's Creed series was with Assassin's Creed 3 in which you could actually replay missions and you could leave the small hub area finally that you were always bound to in the Modern Day. I think that this would actually help those who only are interested in the past be curious about what the Modern Day had to offer whenever it doesn't interfere with their immersion in the experience.

What are your opinions?

Assassin_M
07-09-2015, 01:30 AM
That could have happened in a game like Unity. Complete separation of modern day and history, where non is consequential to the other at all. I believe most people disliked that. I think people want the modern day to be important, to have higher stakes, to be consequential. What you're suggesting would only further worsen the issue, than solve it.

HDinHB
07-09-2015, 03:07 AM
That could have happened in a game like Unity. Complete separation of modern day and history, where non is consequential to the other at all. I believe most people disliked that. I think people want the modern day to be important, to have higher stakes, to be consequential. What you're suggesting would only further worsen the issue, than solve it.

It did happen in Unity. Modern wasn't only inconsequential, it was practically nonexistent.

Ubisoft isn't big on gameplay options, at least in AC games. You don't get difficultly levels for instance, and you aren't likely to get modern day options either. If they ever choose to put some effort into modern day again, then by god they will make you play it. I think it's sad what happened to modern day, whether through lack of creativity or just laziness. As discussed in the Nolan North thread, there was a lot of potential in the modern day that was just squandered.

Assassin_M
07-09-2015, 03:14 AM
It did happen in Unity. Modern wasn't only inconsequential, it was practically nonexistent.
I know, that's what I was saying in the post.

hypershadw
07-09-2015, 03:23 AM
I love Modern Day and am equally upset that they don't put much focus on it at all in the games anymore. Most of them feel like anime fillers now ESPECIALLY Unity. Ideally I would want just a game only in Modern Day but I don't think that will ever happen. Hopefully I'm wrong though. It just frustrates me that people like Angry Joe who are not Assassin's Creed fans and keep hating on the Modern Day to finally be satisfied and be quiet in hopes that it could actually be fleshed out more in its own mode. But both of you are probably right in that instead of having more Modern Day if they WERE to do it once they would probably never have Modern Day in the storyline again afterwards. Maybe make Watch Dogs 2 fully connected to the AC Universe instead of just a side mission tease?

The_Kiwi_
07-09-2015, 09:40 AM
I was wondering what your opinion of having Modern Day separate from the Ancestor as an option for players. Personally I love the Modern Day story-lines and want them to be much more fleshed out. However I know that there are people who believes that it takes them out of the game's immersion. So I was thinking what if there was a compromise? Having three options. One would be the original storyline as intended by the author to be moving back and forth from the past to the present called 'Merged'. The second option would be fully the past. Call it 'Ancestor Mode' and all modern day story segments would be cut out for those who do not like them. The third option would be 'Modern Mode' in which those who prefer the modern day to play that story uninterrupted as well. I think that the best Modern Day of Assassin's Creed series was with Assassin's Creed 3 in which you could actually replay missions and you could leave the small hub area finally that you were always bound to in the Modern Day. I think that this would actually help those who only are interested in the past be curious about what the Modern Day had to offer whenever it doesn't interfere with their immersion in the experience.

What are your opinions?

That would create a lot of problems
The writers would have to develop a story that makes sense without MD, with MD and without ancestral story, all simultaneously

That's a massive ask, and I doubt Ubisoft could manage it

dxsxhxcx
07-09-2015, 12:44 PM
your option to play the modern day segments uninterruptedly wouldn't work because the story wouldn't make much sense without the ancestor part.

but I wouldn't mind if the option to completelly skip the modern day sequences was given at the beginning of the game or via options menu, I understand that there are people who despise the MD and I believe it won't be by forcing them to play it that they'll make them enjoy it, I also think that some of these people would eventually play the modern day sequences at some point even if the option to skip it was given to them...


That would create a lot of problems
The writers would have to develop a story that makes sense without MD, with MD and without ancestral story, all simultaneously

That's a massive ask, and I doubt Ubisoft could manage it

you wouldn't be removing the MD out of the equation, you would just give the players the option to don't be interrupted by it, the MD would still be there, but those who choose not to be bothered by it would be able to play the entire ancestor' story without being ejected from the animus/interrupted.

Sorrosyss
07-09-2015, 12:54 PM
I doubt Ubisoft would do this, as it would obviously reduce the length of the game (somewhat), and people would decry how short it is - despite skipping a load of content. I imagine for the developers of those sections, they would be pretty upset to see all their work hidden away as well.

For me personally, the modern day is integral to the overall plotline. I just can't imagine skipping it, and beyond that even - it remains my main interest in the entire narrative of the franchise.

dxsxhxcx
07-09-2015, 01:04 PM
I doubt Ubisoft would do this, as it would obviously reduce the length of the game (somewhat), and people would decry how short it is - despite skipping a load of content. I imagine for the developers of those sections, they would be pretty upset to see all their work hidden away as well.

For me personally, the modern day is integral to the overall plotline. I just can't imagine skipping it, and beyond that even - it remains my main interest in the entire narrative of the franchise.

as it is the developers of those sections are just being bashed for it (and IMO with reason, because the MD after AC3 sucks) what isn't much better than the alternative, at least those who enjoy the MD for what it is would still play it and those people who don't care about it would be able to skip it, maybe with luck, having the option to skip it, would make possible for the developers to do more for the MD because they wouldn't need to appeal to the mainstream audience.

the bad side is, if this option was given, I can see Ubisoft using "statistics" to justify the complete removal of the MD in order to maximize profit..

The_Kiwi_
07-09-2015, 01:12 PM
you wouldn't be removing the MD out of the equation, you would just give the players the option to don't be interrupted by it, the MD would still be there, but those who choose not to be bothered by it would be able to play the entire ancestor' story without being ejected from the animus/interrupted.

Yes, I know that, it doesn't invalidate my point
Those people would still be playing without MD so the story would need to make sense without it

dxsxhxcx
07-09-2015, 01:19 PM
Yes, I know that, it doesn't invalidate my point
Those people would still be playing without MD so the story would need to make sense without it

IMO if they don't want to experience the entire story it's their problem, also as far as I can remember, most stories we had until now (can't say about ACRo or Unity because I didn't play these games) make sense without the MD, IMO the people who want the MD sections to be skippable have zero interest in knowing why we are reliving someone's memory (if that's what you meant by "sense"), they just want to play as the ancestor, they don't need a reason for that.

The_Kiwi_
07-09-2015, 02:29 PM
IMO if they don't want to experience the entire story it's their problem, also as far as I can remember, most stories we had until now (can't say about ACRo or Unity because I didn't play these games) make sense without the MD, IMO the people who want the MD sections to be skippable have zero interest in knowing why we are reliving someone's memory (if that's what you meant by "sense"), they just want to play as the ancestor, they don't need a reason for that.

What about Revelations?
Ezio talks to Desmond
People playing without MD would get so confused at that

dxsxhxcx
07-09-2015, 02:35 PM
What about Revelations?
Ezio talks to Desmond
People playing without MD would get so confused at that

I forgot about that... :p

that's the price they'll have to pay for skipping the MD, like I said, the MD won't cease to exist just because they don't want to be constantly interrupted by it, they liking or not, the game is about someone reliving someone's else memories, so they'll just have to live with it or play the MD if they want something like that to make sense.

Assassin_M
07-09-2015, 04:49 PM
that's the price they'll have to pay for skipping the MD,
That's not the thought process that'll go, but rather:

Modern Day optional, we have to make it completely unimportant, completely separate, completely inconsequential to the ancestor portion.

EmbodyingSeven5
07-09-2015, 05:09 PM
What about Revelations?
Ezio talks to Desmond
People playing without MD would get so confused at that

And when Juno mentions desmond in AC 2
Iove these types of moments.
They also wouldn't happen if MD was separate or optional

ninja4hire10
07-10-2015, 02:22 PM
Actually a good idea, just don't know how the writers/ devs would go about it.

MD is my least fave part of the whole series, and while I understand it's overall importance to the lore by tying into ancestral memories with the Animus, I don't play AC games to run around in the modern world -- plenty of other games on the shelves for that, IMHO. I want the historical sandbox, and the longer I get to play in that sandbox the better. I'd rather skip the MD and catch up on the MD story elements here on the forums without having to hack in-game computers with my tablet or have to blade Templar agents armed with automated firearms, which makes no sense.

Hans684
07-10-2015, 05:30 PM
Does't matter if it's a favorite or not, it's a third factor along with the First Civ. and history that has to be in AC regardless of what people think. The story matters more fan favorites.

hypershadw
07-11-2015, 01:30 AM
Actually a good idea, just don't know how the writers/ devs would go about it.

MD is my least fave part of the whole series, and while I understand it's overall importance to the lore by tying into ancestral memories with the Animus, I don't play AC games to run around in the modern world -- plenty of other games on the shelves for that, IMHO. I want the historical sandbox, and the longer I get to play in that sandbox the better. I'd rather skip the MD and catch up on the MD story elements here on the forums without having to hack in-game computers with my tablet or have to blade Templar agents armed with automated firearms, which makes no sense.

I actually got into the Assassin's Creed series BECAUSE of the modern day storyline. When it was conceptualized at the time, it was actually the recent future that the games were taking place in. Game came out in 2007 taking place in 2012 and etc. However my proposal is not to remove the story from both but to have them purposefully connected and make the player curious about what is going on in the story whenever it doesn't make sense inspiring them to actually play the Modern Day and vice versa. For instance, the events in Assassin's Creed 2 would happen with you leaving off on 'Who the hell is Desmond??' and you see that there is another story option for Modern Day. You play all the way through all the while learning who Desmond is and how he can actually tell whenever Ezio was speaking to him. It would also allow players to play the games in Chronological order if they so desired.

However, If they were to remove the Modern Day storyline completely from the games then I would simply stop playing the games. I never was a big history buff but instead was always interested in sci-fi and conspiracy. To have all of that in one and the effects of the past noticeably alter what happens now?? That was an amazing concept and I believe has continued to be through the franchise...until Unity. Unity was such an omission of the Modern Day it felt like it wasn't there. I'm going to wait to hear from fellow fans to see if Syndicate will actually have a more fully fledged MD before purchase. What is the point of a story-driven franchise to NOT be connected to past games?

Is this basically saying "Yeah you don't have to get all of the games, just the ones with the coolest time periods. They're all not connected anymore." There was also no mention of the First-Civ at ALL in Unity. All we got was the Sword which while is interesting in that it wasn't simply another Apple, is not enough for long time fans.

My take on the games handling Modern Day: Assassin's Creed 1 had a tease of a modern day and even had people believing it was going to fully go Modern Day (look at the Zero Punctuation review). Assassin's Creed 2 was really good in that it meshed the MD with the past with direct references to the future and solidified the importance of Desmond even more. Assassin's Creed Brotherhood MD was CLEARLY cobbled together and rushed with not much thought put into it. The past sequences were GREAT...but the future was garbage. What happened in it? The find a hideout...talk about....stuff....find the Apple after some convoluted reasons with the number 72...have a hint at the French Revolution and then gets stabbed by Desmond who was or wasn't being controlled by Juno which changed in Revelations and then changed again in Assassin's Creed 3. The clear loss of direction with the MD in Brotherhood killed it for the majority of the rest of the franchise and AC3 hinged on it. ACR had great back-story on Desmond but hardly anyone played them due to no one wanted to collect animus fragments so by AC3 he was a blank slate to most people. I think AC3 had the best MD in the entire franchise in terms of game-play....but the ending ruined it for most people because it wasn't satisfying. His father wasn't shown mourning at all...gotta prep the rest of the series with Juno instead because priorities.

TL;DNR version: Modern Day is essential to story and is one of the core pillars that they are neglecting since AC3 and hasn't been done properly since AC2 in terms of story. The OTHER pillar that goes with that is ANCESTRY. You know, what the Animus was all about in the first place. Unity is not connected to any of the Assassin's Creed games in any way whether in the past or present. You could argue Rogue...but that is only Rogue connecting to Unity and not the other way around. If there is not a reason to get all the games for the story, then I will just not bother with getting any of the future games.

Assassin_M
07-11-2015, 03:14 AM
hasn't been down properly since AC2 in terms of story.
If by down you mean neglected

ninja4hire10
07-11-2015, 03:47 AM
Good points all. But I'm the inverse: the historical setting is what attracted me to AC1 way back when; prior to that, my fave gaming franchise was Splinter Cell. Since then, I've liked every time period each release has been set in and "celebrate" each setting by independently researching the period and cooking up a meal that favors the particular country/ city (Syndicate's menu: fish n' chips with a cold English ale;)

And while I'll play through the new game's modern elements and try to enjoy that aspect (should they exist and if so, to what extent), any strictly MD or MD-heavy game is a guaranteed no-buy for me.

But, aside from those like Hypershadw who digs conspiracies and secret organizations, how about as simple hypothetical: I wonder how many fans would've bought or would still be into the AC world should MD never have been part of games in the first place? No Animus, no Helix, no ancestral memories...just bare-boned stories covering the ageless battle between the Brotherhood and the Order throughout the centuries. I would've.

It just seems to me introducing the MD element, as novel as it was at the time, essentially handcuffed the writers into having to always tie everything into memories from an MD protag, thus limiting the entirety of where the series could go and what it could do. Short-changes the creativity, I think...

hypershadw
07-11-2015, 04:31 AM
Good points all. But I'm the inverse: the historical setting is what attracted me to AC1 way back when; prior to that, my fave gaming franchise was Splinter Cell. Since then, I've liked every time period each release has been set in and "celebrate" each setting by independently researching the period and cooking up a meal that favors the particular country/ city (Syndicate's menu: fish n' chips with a cold English ale;)

And while I'll play through the new game's modern elements and try to enjoy that aspect (should they exist and if so, to what extent), any strictly MD or MD-heavy game is a guaranteed no-buy for me.

But, aside from those like Hypershadw who digs conspiracies and secret organizations, how about as simple hypothetical: I wonder how many fans would've bought or would still be into the AC world should MD never have been part of games in the first place? No Animus, no Helix, no ancestral memories...just bare-boned stories covering the ageless battle between the Brotherhood and the Order throughout the centuries. I would've.

It just seems to me introducing the MD element, as novel as it was at the time, essentially handcuffed the writers into having to always tie everything into memories from an MD protag, thus limiting the entirety of where the series could go and what it could do. Short-changes the creativity, I think...

Agreed it would be successful...but it would also limit your ability to reference other games and would be meaningless for players to want to get every game. If you don't like a time period then you simply wouldn't be interested in getting the game. For instance I would have never gotten Assassin's Creed Revelations because I thought the location was dull and uninteresting and I didn't know any of the history that went on there so I wouldn't care about it at all. So the fans of the series would have a much different crown than what there is now. If it was purely historical fiction then I take it the First Civ would be out as well correct? That is a science fiction element that was really only implemented to tie the past to the present in the first place and is a key role of the conspiracies driving the series.

Oh and Assassin_M I meant done properly it was a typo. Assassin's Creed 3 was so close to being the ideal Modern Day but the passing 'oh Yeah Lucy was a Templar all along and everyone knows that right?' along with the terribly executed ending brought it significantly down for me. Positives though were actual missions in the present day as well as you could replay those missions as long as you didn't complete the game. Also the tie in comic with Daniel Cross I thought was cool. He was presented sort of as the Anti-Desmond. I wish this dialogue was still in the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP1b2s4YsiE

avk111
07-11-2015, 10:03 AM
I was wondering what your opinion of having Modern Day separate from the Ancestor as an option for players. Personally I love the Modern Day story-lines and want them to be much more fleshed out. However I know that there are people who believes that it takes them out of the game's immersion. So I was thinking what if there was a compromise? Having three options. One would be the original storyline as intended by the author to be moving back and forth from the past to the present called 'Merged'. The second option would be fully the past. Call it 'Ancestor Mode' and all modern day story segments would be cut out for those who do not like them. The third option would be 'Modern Mode' in which those who prefer the modern day to play that story uninterrupted as well. I think that the best Modern Day of Assassin's Creed series was with Assassin's Creed 3 in which you could actually replay missions and you could leave the small hub area finally that you were always bound to in the Modern Day. I think that this would actually help those who only are interested in the past be curious about what the Modern Day had to offer whenever it doesn't interfere with their immersion in the experience.

What are your opinions?


Is it me or do people fail to realise that the franchise choose the moden day protgonist plot segmentation not only to work as a back drop to connecting several stories of different assassins, but also to work as an alter-ego for the actual assassin character in that story. AC1 (Altair - Desmond), AC2 (Ezio - Desmond) ,AC3 (Connor - Desmond) ,AC4 (Edward - Silent Protag) etc.

You kill off/seperate MD and you kill off an important concept in the whole franchise, ACU did that and look at the core foundation, an absolute void with the highest disappointment rating in the entire franchise.

I beleive the idea of givings us a custom made MD protagonist would work well,however how would you be able to connect a custom made character in the entirety of the franchise.

Ill just go with the Galina MD protagonist concept, sounds like a concept that can carry the franchise forward not backwards as the state it is in right now, (No wonder Ubi is through alot of coin on ACS demonstrations all around the globe , to grab all the shares it had after losing them on ACU)

anima987
07-11-2015, 01:13 PM
What I don't understand is why they almost completly removed the MD element from Unity. For me the AC franchise IS the past + the MD. Good or not the modern days have to be in the game and this is a huge part of the reasons I didn't like Unity.

I really hope they'll come back and do something better for the next episodes. There is so much potential and so much things to explore with these stories.
Even with a Black Flag like story. At least the MD was there...

ninja4hire10
07-11-2015, 02:25 PM
Oh, I absolutely get how MD threads the past and present together into the overall AC mythology. It's not lost on me. And I hadn't thought about how fans could choose which games to buy based solely on which time period they were interested in (or not) -- not good for Ubi's bottom line, for sure.

Remember, I didn't say I hated MD; I said it was my least favorite story element. If Desmond never died and we stayed with his bloodline though, eventually we'd run out of history and we'd be stuck in MD only. Ubi's "history is our playground" tagline would then have to be "modern day is our playground--like most of the other games out there." The historical setting is what made/makes AC unique; otherwise each release is just another face in the crowd. History's the primary reason I buy.

And First Civ could still be included in the lore 'cause it could exist minus MD, although truth be told I can't stand the whole "ancient artifact" thing as a plot device, it's a dead horse that's been long over-kicked, y'know? The games could simply have laid out the struggle between the Temps and Assassins and how their secret battle shaped history; no reason to muck up the mythology with overly fantastical elements of pseudo-supernatural sci-fi.

But full disclosure: while Ezio's my favorite assassin, I didn't/ don't care for Desmond at all. That has a lot to do with me being down on MD. So in the interest of fairness, if this Galina theory for Syndicate proves true, I'll give it a fair shake.