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View Full Version : You think Syndicate's targets will be mostly fictional?



LoyalACFan
07-08-2015, 02:44 PM
Was thinking about this a little bit once I realized the game was set entirely in 1868. Most of the other games have spanned at least five or ten years so they could incorporate the deaths of historical figures when they actually died in real life (barring Revelations which only had like three targets and AC1 which fudged dates a lot more than any of the other titles). They've never really been able to portray the passage of time effectively in any of the games IMO, so staying in a single year appeals to me. And so does the prospect of assassinating mostly fictional targets, since it would help eliminate the Forrest Gump syndrome of the more recent games.

Thoughts? Or was 1868 just an extremely bloody year where tons of noteworthy citizens got murdered?

Namikaze_17
07-08-2015, 02:52 PM
Well most people thought this guy was real.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/totalwar-ar/images/3/36/Roderick_Bulmer.png/revision/latest?cb=20141203220532

So it's possible.

I-Like-Pie45
07-08-2015, 03:44 PM
i think ac3 is the only game where a majority of the assassination targets are actual historical targets instead of made-up

SixKeys
07-08-2015, 04:27 PM
i think ac3 is the only game where a majority of the assassination targets are actual historical targets instead of made-up

AC2 had more, I believe.

Sorrosyss
07-08-2015, 06:44 PM
I so wish there was some historical famous figure called Bloody Nora, but I wager not. :D

VestigialLlama4
07-08-2015, 08:31 PM
Assassin's Creed always moved between fictional and real assassination targets:

In AC1, the targets were heavily fictionalized but based on real people.

In AC2, aside from Uberto Alberti, Vieri and Carlo Grimaldi, all the targets were real people - The Pazzi Conspirators, the Barbarigo Family (or at least one or two of them though highly fictionalized), The Orsi Brothers, Savonarola, Borgia.

In AC3, aside from Haytham, every target was real, including Braddock, Thomas Hickey, Nicholas Biddle i.e. the ones you would think are fictionalized. Hickey is the first person to be executed by the United States of America.

Black Flag introduced fictional and real targets. The fictional targets are based on real people. Julien du Casse is the son of the real-life Jean du Casse, Laurens Prins was based on a real-life guy, Woodes Rogers and Torres were actual governors and politicians. Though El Tiburon was fictionalized.

UNITY had almost entirely fictional targets being largely ahistorical. Sivert and Germain are highly obscure footnote-of-footnote types so essentially fictionalized. To give it credit, one weird thing that Unity does do is that it recreates a real-life assassination in the death of Le Peletier. In real-life, Peletier was killed by a fanatic royalist in the same location as the game. The real-life assassination was public and messy, a royal guard stabbed him, none of that poison BS the game puts. And also, by making Peletier the bad guy, Arno is essentially a royalist right-wing psychopath.

LoyalACFan
07-08-2015, 09:20 PM
Assassin's Creed always moved between fictional and real assassination targets

Yeah but the main ones are almost always real people, or at least based on them (Rogue was an exception since half the targets were Assassins and one-time allies, but all the Templars Shay killed actually existed). I'm thinking Syndicate might reverse that trend, mostly because it takes place in a single year, but also because the Fryes seem to be operating at street level fighting gangsters instead of assassinating statesmen who wound up remembered in the history books.



by making Peletier the bad guy, Arno is essentially a royalist right-wing psychopath.

Well, Unity took a pretty damn royalist slant throughout, it wasn't just the le Peletier assassination. And if I'm not mistaken, I read that they actually dialed back on it somewhat because their historical consultants said it was too royalist, so what we got in the game was actually watered-down from the original script. Hard to say how they could have been MORE royalist in the first draft, I mean was Arno holding hands with King Louis frolicking through a field of daisies?

Xstantin
07-08-2015, 09:25 PM
I hope not all of them are gangsters at least. That'll be just boring

LoyalACFan
07-08-2015, 09:28 PM
I hope not all of them are gangsters at least. That'll be just boring

Maybe not all gangsters, but I'd be totally okay with them all being common folk or minor officials, like corrupt sheriffs and whatnot. Weaving Assassins into every major political hit job in history has gotten a little out of hand.

SixKeys
07-08-2015, 09:33 PM
Yeah but the main ones are almost always real people, or at least based on them (Rogue was an exception since half the targets were Assassins and one-time allies, but all the Templars Shay killed actually existed). I'm thinking Syndicate might reverse that trend, mostly because it takes place in a single year, but also because the Fryes seem to be operating at street level fighting gangsters instead of assassinating statesmen who wound up remembered in the history books.


Possibly, but I think Yohalem is quite interested in history so he might be able to write some interesting real-life targets into the game. Unity is the only game so far whose writer seemed completely uninterested in accurately representing history.

LoyalACFan
07-08-2015, 09:39 PM
Possibly, but I think Yohalem is quite interested in history so he might be able to write some interesting real-life targets into the game. Unity is the only game so far whose writer seemed completely uninterested in accurately representing history.

Maybe. Hard to say, the main targets he's written up until this point have been about half real and half fictional (Cesare and Juan vs. Baron Frenchie le Frencherton and the captain dude from Dead Kings). In any case, an authentic-feeling historical piece doesn't necessarily need iconic historical figures to feature prominently, so his interest in history could take it either way. Agree about Unity's writing though.

VestigialLlama4
07-09-2015, 03:42 AM
Maybe. Hard to say, the main targets he's written up until this point have been about half real and half fictional (Cesare and Juan vs. Baron Frenchie le Frencherton and the captain dude from Dead Kings). In any case, an authentic-feeling historical piece doesn't necessarily need iconic historical figures to feature prominently, so his interest in history could take it either way. Agree about Unity's writing though.

The way I see it as long as they have historical figures as prominent figures, say supporting characters, then they can use fictional targets no problem. Like Haytham was the main Templar in AC3 and he was fictional (every other Templar was a historical figure). BLACK FLAG had Governor Torres be the main bad guy and while he's historical, I doubt anybody even heard of the guy until Black Flag since he always was a footnote-of-a-footnote. He could have been a fictional character and still worked because the game itself features so many of these historical pirates.

You are absolutely right that "an authentic-feeling historical piece doesn't necessarily need iconic historical figures to feature prominently". AC1 is very much a game that captures the feeling of the Crusades and the time but its pretty fictionalized in many aspects although it does portray the Asasiyun far more accurately than any depiction before it, including the novel, Alamut, which inspired the game. Most of the historical figures are obscure types, Robert de Sable, Garnier de Naplouse, Hochmeister Sibrand, Al Mualim (Rashid ad-din Sinan) was better known. The one iconic figure is Richard the Lionheart.

SpiritOfNevaeh
07-09-2015, 03:49 AM
I have no problem with either.

AC is based on history most of the time so it's assumed that we will see historical characters in all of them, more or less.

And of course fictional characters are welcome too, as long as they're not forcefully included and done right :)

The_Kiwi_
07-09-2015, 08:58 AM
It depends on how much they can get away with
Since Syndicate is actually rather modern, some close descendants might have problems with their depictions which can cause legal issues
Notre Dame had to be changed due to copyright, something similar could happen with historical people, unlicensed use of images

Sorrosyss
07-09-2015, 12:43 PM
It depends on how much they can get away with
Since Syndicate is actually rather modern, some close descendants might have problems with their depictions which can cause legal issues
Notre Dame had to be changed due to copyright, something similar could happen with historical people, unlicensed use of images

This is a very good point. I know a lot of people have been outright requesting some kind of Sherlock Holmes reference within Syndicate, but in other media the IP has had several legal wrangles between interested parties.

Though we know there is a "Baker Street" outfit in Syndicate, so Ubi has clearly done something on this front.

The_Kiwi_
07-09-2015, 01:09 PM
Sherlock Holmes is a fictional character so the issue is slightly different, but yes, people can own the rights to the use of images of a real person, therefore Ubisoft needs permission to use these images