PDA

View Full Version : The P-39, what are you serious?



XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 04:47 AM
Sure im not a great pilot, I cant turn well and get shot down allot but come on Maddox the P-39 now, the Russians fitted it with an anti stall parachute for cripes sake!


I cant even stall the thing anymore, can out turn a sparrow.


Just dont understand any of the planes anymore, my IL2 FB world is confused.

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/john/BP-johann-9-4-03.gif <center>

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 04:47 AM
Sure im not a great pilot, I cant turn well and get shot down allot but come on Maddox the P-39 now, the Russians fitted it with an anti stall parachute for cripes sake!


I cant even stall the thing anymore, can out turn a sparrow.


Just dont understand any of the planes anymore, my IL2 FB world is confused.

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/john/BP-johann-9-4-03.gif <center>

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 04:48 AM
before anyone posts, I know specs on good low altitude performance blah blah blah, just doesnt seem right

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/john/BP-johann-9-4-03.gif <center>

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 04:54 AM
I'm pretty sure a lot of what people attribute to 'twitchiness' in IL2 has to do with the previous games stick settings than anything else, really.

But yeah, it definitely feels too 'light' for lack of a better word - I have no idea if tweaking the weight attribute or distribution would improve things, or tweaking the sensitivity/authority of the controls [not the users stick, but the response from the plane to input].

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/worker_parasite.jpg

Need help with NewView? Read this thread. (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=yzbcj)

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:11 AM
given ... there is a certian "toy like" feel to a lot of the FM's now.

some are still pretty good, the Emil is a great sight-seeing/scud-running plane with a very realistic feel to it for example

<center> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQDLAtUWiWZ3BKw19!aryp7v3C1h1DuNwpHOOuqhlraGSyMAY KiPEOZAA1OBgsLu*Sa0UQ2my0PiFyvNkJ5K7Clsoy7yNtEvOXY nHDuPNiotpZACY2oJxw/aircraftround.jpg </center>

Hawgdog
09-25-2003, 05:13 AM
pfffffft

<center></script>The original HawgDog, dont be fooled by fneb imitations
~W~ cause S! has become USELESS
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:16 AM
Double Pfffffffft!

GP

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:26 AM
pfftt back at ya

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/john/BP-johann-9-4-03.gif <center>

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:32 AM
Realism went out the door with the guns on yaks too.

I take up a yak1b against g2's and 190a4's online and I'm sawing wings off and cutting planes in flaming halves left and right with short bursts.

Am I supposed to belive this crappy yak1b has this much firepower? When I land the same short bursts on any plane with fw190 or 109g2 I never see this kind of crap. I see planes slowly fill with holes, smoke, and finally I get a wing off with what seems like 8 times the ammo used.

Something has to be wrong with these things. I remember the yak1b using a hell of a lot more ammo to down a plane before. Has to a bug or something.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:38 AM
There is and will never be anything wrong with the P-39. Atleast that's what I'm claiming! Of course I could be wrong............hmmmmm..............nope I'm not!

GP

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:40 AM
Yaks have always been able to do that.

Message Edited on 09/24/0311:41PM by Weather_Man

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 06:12 AM
.... Uber Yaks.....

Need I say any more??

<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/230903-Copy of Sig_test.jpg</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 06:19 AM
Yak - uber in everything except DIVE.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 06:50 AM
the P-39 has a TOTALLY unreal stall in FB

try saving the stall ...... WAY EASY

the Yaks will take 5 Mk108s ......... maby even more , but i personally have put 5 Mk 108 into a Yak 3

i fly Yaks & LAs a lot more now tho , im not nationality biased

but the DM difference in FB is HUGH

& the P-39 was given the wrong name , it flies like the P-63 did

maybe they will release the Nassty handeling P-39 soon ??

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 07:19 AM
It flys great up at 7000m too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Something about that dosent seem right ?

<center><font size="7" color="red">Arcade Mode Inabled[/i]</font>

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 07:24 AM
I miss the P-39's character plain and simple. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I do disagree about the Yak's DM though. It used to be the most ridiculous DM in the game but Yaks go down pretty easy now (it was totally re-worked), just like a good Spitfire Ale. A hit from a Mk-108 usually does the trick, if it takes more than two then it must be lag or something else.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 07:43 AM
I flew a yak 1 last night against the G2. Being more familar with the 109 I was really having a hard time killing planes and for that matter keeping it in the air. One of the reasons is that stick settings give differnt feels in differnt planes. The other and most important reason for my poor performance was lack of experience and familiarity with the plane. I have no problems splintering yaks, lags, what have you in the plane I am most familiar with. Lessen is spend some time in the so called "uber" plane and you will come to realize its not the super plane you thought.


As to the p39...well I use to love the quirkyness of that plane in il2. It was a challenge to get out of a stall but could be a dog at times. The P39 we have now seems to be the better preformer it once was but is lacking the stall and spin characteristics it is was notorious for.

There is a story that claims when the p39 first appeard in Kuban the Luftwaffe sent a special group of aces to take care of this new plane that was causeing lots of problems in the Kuban skies. If the plane was really that bad would they have recieved such attention. Granted it was not up against late 109s then like it can be in this game, but it was a very formidiable opponent for it's Luftwaffe counterparts. It was used as an energy fighter and not the bad plane folks believe it to be.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 08:20 AM
we dont have a P-39

we have the P-63 KingCobra atthe moment

the KingCobra was awesome , a lot of the problems with the handeling of the Airacobra were reduced in the KingCobra

i hope Maddox Games releases the P-39 Airacobra for FB as the P-63 we have now needs its Dog handeling sibling to fly with

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 01:23 PM
P-39 is Oleg's "Uberplane of the month" Another Jet with prop's. Don't know if history is trying to be rewritten or not. But how about getting someone that is as bias to change the FM's on the German side. Then this "simulation" would be a little more balanced and more realistic. This is the 1st WW2 sim that you see German pilot's resorting to flying Ruskie planes.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 01:38 PM
"Balance" is bad.

"Balance" is for FPS deathmatch thingies.

"Balance" is one of those words that if you say it to yourself a few times sounds ridiculous. Like the word "from"....ridiculous.



Lixma,

Blitzpig.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 02:19 PM
I remember flying the P-39 as a real challenge. If you treated her right, she could be deadly. Now the challenge is gone. You can spiral climb with the best of them and the firepower is as deadly as ever.

This really needs toned down!

<center>
http://members.verizon.net/~vze2cb22/KosSig.gif

Is the Bf-110C-4/B ready yet?<center>

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 02:21 PM
I dunno about that stall thing.... I still manage to get into a flat spin now and then or stall out in turns if I try to do too much too fast..... I think the 1.11 P-39 is kind of nice.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 02:37 PM
Not sure how you did it. If I have a chose I fly VVS planes but try to stay away from P-39 - I just can't stall it. I used to be able to do this in old IL-2.
I hate to think that this could have been done for balance, to compensate for "concrete" Fw190 and uber-climbers Bf109 armed with ray-guns.


AKA_Bogun

---------------
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

- Tom Clancy

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 02:45 PM
You smoking crack or something Bogun? The 109s don't climb as well as they should and you're complaining about them being too good? lol

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 02:55 PM
johann63 wrote:
- I cant even stall the thing anymore, can out turn a
- sparrow.

Yeah, they're much different now. I guess realism is relative.

Just after patch 1.11 came out, I was in a FW being chased by a P39 at speed. I had quite a bit more E and was climbing away when I saw him start to break with an Immelman. Deciding to pursue, I gave the stick a hard pull to follow, but it was no use. I wasn't even half way into my turn when the P39 was pointed in the other direction and then, was gone. He was going at least 400 kph and completed the turn in about two seconds. The way he zoomed off, I knew that either the E-retention was off the chart or he had added a vector thrust jet engine.

Gone are the days where you sprayed to get a hit on the P39, scared the pilot into a hard turn that created a stall and a flat spin. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 03:00 PM
No DDT, I am off this stuff for now... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
You should try to stop smocking it too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

109 climb as banshee now, like there are no ceiling ... and better then it did in reality, according to Oleg. Definitely better then all else in the game (minus late La's).


AKA_Bogun

---------------
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

- Tom Clancy

ZG77_Nagual
09-25-2003, 03:00 PM
P39 was too bad in il2 - read around and you'll see alot of the SPIN issues were sorted out in later versions - most of what you are reading about refers to the D model

http://airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part3.htm

Just fine to 8,000 m it says in this interview.
Also - rumour has it it had very light controls - part of the problem - getting used to no overcontrolling - and that the elevator remained light even at high speeds - this being undermodeled now.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 03:03 PM
Bogun wrote:
- 109 climb as banshee now, like there are no ceiling
- ... and better then it did in reality, according to
- Oleg. Definitely better then all else in the game
- (minus late La's).

What do you base this on? We have seen more than enough examples of how virtually all 109s are porked in climb except for the G2.

I know what Oleg said. I also know what he said about the 190 cockpit. He was wrong there too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 04:53 PM
Come on P-63!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=4)"> P-39 Vet since IL-2 Sturmovik </table style>

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)"> www.blitzpigs.com</center> (http://www.blitzpigs.com</center>) </table style>

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:24 PM
The P-39 is borked, but so are a lot of other planes.



<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=4)"> P-39 Vet since the original IL-2 Sturmovik </table style>

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)"> www.blitzpigs.com</center> (http://www.blitzpigs.com</center>) </table style>

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:38 PM
We all have access to Youss's program, so general statements like this are pretty easy to refute.

Bogun wrote:
- 109 climb as banshee now, like there are no ceiling
- ... and better then it did in reality, according to
- Oleg. Definitely better then all else in the game
- (minus late La's).

And as for the P-39 being "uber"??? Maybe in turnfights down low they can hold their own, but they suffer poor climb performance above 3000m, with some gains in speed for the Q models over the N.

A spiral climb in a 109 is extremely effective and pretty much allows you to dictate the fight.

Their lack of stall may be one issue, but calling them "uber" is completely wrong.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:38 PM
BpGemini wrote:
- The P-39 is borked
-


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 06:21 PM
faustnik wrote:
- BpGemini wrote:
-- The P-39 is borked
--
-
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/jm.pot/chef/images/chef2.jpg

BORK! BORK! BORK! (http://www.almac.co.uk/chef/chef/picsound/bork.wav)



.



Message Edited on 09/25/0305:40PM by BlitzPig_DDT

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 06:26 PM
kyrule2 wrote:
- I miss the P-39's character plain and simple.
-
- I do disagree about the Yak's DM though. It used to
- be the most ridiculous DM in the game but Yaks go
- down pretty easy now (it was totally re-worked),
- just like a good Spitfire Ale. A hit from a Mk-108
- usually does the trick, if it takes more than two
- then it must be lag or something else.

Damn it's hard to keep up what version we're talking about. For me the yak is ubertough, and I still thought so for some reason, but the truth is I haven't tried to shoot one down yet.

Nic

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 06:42 PM
Yea and what's even stranger than the P-39 going up to 7,000 meters ( and doing it well ) is the fact that the ME-262 will barely get to 7,000 meters, and when it does it manages only to fly around at stalling speeds, making fighting in it at those altitudes impossible. I once managed to get the 262 to 9,000 meters but it was pathetic. My point in this is that the P-39 was known to be deficient at high altitudes, while the Me-262 was, in RL in it's element at altitudes like that. Able to fight VERTICALLY through formations of Liberators and Fortresses. So how so many people can say the FMs in FB are so good, is beyond me. And then dare to say you are a whiner if you challenge anything at all concerning FB, as if FB is beyond reproach and the Maddox team are like Greek gods.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin - 1755

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 07:25 PM
faustnik wrote:
-
- BpGemini wrote:
-- The P-39 is borked
--
-
-
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


My stance has been the P-39 is borked but so are a lot of other planes. Many other planes are still easier to get kills in.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/bp_geminiCombined.gif

<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=1)">
<table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=4)"> P-39 Vet since the original IL-2 Sturmovik </table style>

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
<table style="filter:glow[color=green,strength=4)"> www.blitzpigs.com</center> (http://www.blitzpigs.com</center>) </table style>

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 10:08 PM
nicolas10, set up a quick mission builder against four friendly Yaks of any type and take a late 109 with Mk-108. Fire one round into them and they will all fall. I went 12 for 12 but believe me I noticed the Yaks new DM immediately. It was at the top of my wish list and it was even included in the readme file (along with re-worked I-16 DM). Trust me, Yaks are not very tough anymore, they used to be so bad they ruined the game though, especially offline. Machine guns and cannons both tear them apart now.

Cheers.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 10:46 PM
it could just be me but in my opinion all the stall characteristics from all the planes are fake

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 11:26 PM
I still think yaks are the most ridiculous planes in the whole game.

They are destructive as hell compared to planes with more firepower.

Also, the ease with which you can aim with any yak is beyond ridiculous. You basically just point and shoot the damn thing, almost as easy as aiming with a mouse.

Show me some evidence why the yaks should be so rock solid stable when firing and bringing guns to bear and EVERY other plane in the game suffers much more from recoil and bouncy elevator response causing overcorrections.

People who have a hard time with gunnery in any other plane can step into a yak and become and instant sniper dealing death to anyone who gets near the front of their plane.

One would think a heavier plane like an la7 or fw190 would be more gunnery stable than the lightest late war fighter in the game.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 11:36 PM
Does anyone have a chart of stall speeds for the current patch?

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 12:13 AM
Just for kicks, right after 1.11 came out I set up a 1v1 in the QMB against an La-7 ace, to see what kind of plane it would take to beat one. The first plane I was able to beat the La-7 in was the P-39. It didn't seem right.

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 12:29 AM
P-39 specifics aside, what baffles me is how FM's can oscillate so wildly from patch to patch, with no official comment on the intentions behind the changes. (e.g 109 paltry climb rates, lack of adjustments to La7 and Yak3s unrealistic turn perf, lack of high alt FM, 190 DM, roll rate, etc.)

Honestly, I belive the community would be understand if 1C said "look guys, without divulging trade secrets, here's what we tried to do, understand that in tweaking X we affected Y inadvertantly. Note your findings and we'll look at it when we can."But that doesn't happen.

So all we get are wild variations in plane performance from patch to patch and a roiling sea of acrimony in the forums.

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 12:32 AM
I
rfa0 wrote:
- Just for kicks, right after 1.11 came out I set up a
- 1v1 in the QMB against an La-7 ace, to see what kind
- of plane it would take to beat one. The first plane
- I was able to beat the La-7 in was the P-39. It
- didn't seem right.


I can beat the La7 ace level in a Brewster...doesn't really prove anything except that the AI aren't very challenging.

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 12:54 AM
Chadburn wrote:
- I can beat the La7 ace level in a Brewster...doesn't
- really prove anything except that the AI aren't very
- challenging.
-
It proves the P-39 FM has gotten much easier. If I had tried to beat an La-7 in a P-39 before the latest patches I don't think I could have done it.

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 01:43 AM
rfa0 wrote:
- Chadburn wrote:
-- I can beat the La7 ace level in a Brewster...doesn't
-- really prove anything except that the AI aren't very
-- challenging.
--
- It proves the P-39 FM has gotten much easier. If I
- had tried to beat an La-7 in a P-39 before the
- latest patches I don't think I could have done it.


But it's all relative when fighting AI. I just beat an ace La7 in an N-1 in the original IL2, the plane that everybody remembers as being so twitchy.

I think the big difference for all planes between IL2 and FB is energy bleed. In IL2 all the planes bled a lot more energy than in FB. In IL2, manoeuvering the P-39 gets you to stall speed more quickly than in FB because of excessive E bleed. Therefore, you needed to be gentler with it.

In FB, the retention of energy allows for more and harder manouevering before nearing stall speed.

Edit: I think the tracers in the original IL2 seemed better...





Message Edited on 09/25/0308:45PM by Chadburn