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View Full Version : Same creature abilitie in all factions!!!!!



ChrisD.1
07-04-2015, 09:51 AM
Vigilance - Vampire, Ghost, Blade Master
Unfettered - Brute, Golem, Moon Doe (why is it such a big deal?will we have slowing obstacles like puddles and such in the battlefields?)
Piercing Shot - Archer, Disciple, Hunter
Sweep - Sword Master, Rakshasa Raja, Cyclops, Blade Master

The Emerald Dragon shares the exact same abilities as the Sand Wyvern!!!!!! How is this possible???

And we've yet to see Dungeon which will with no doubt showcase the same abilities at least once!!

Please this is over-simplifiying! There are more passives out there. An easy suggestion:

Vampire Upgrade - Life drain, No Retaliation (again why does he need vigilance???)
Ghost - Incorporeality (the only ability it needs! just a 25% defence bonus or make some attacks miss)
Moon Doe/ Sun Stag - ability to jump obstacles or a self-haste ability so its turns come faster since it's a fast unit
Hunter - Double Shot
Blade Master - He has so low HP he does not need Vigilance but a defence buff ability like the one he had in heroes 5!! with every step he takes a bonus to defence!!!!!!!

Please this is very repetitive and makes faction less distinguishable. only 5 creatures need a little tweaking in the abilities department! I think it's do-able. anyone else agrees?

ramborusina
07-04-2015, 12:39 PM
Ohh Chris... The situation is actually worse than what you describe as you aren't including even all creatures that have to abilities! For example hydra is missing from vigilance list(it probably has sweep also) and fire-elemental and stalker have piercing shot(they were already revealed during line-up votes so you could've added them there). Also druid has essentially one time piercing shot with leaf daggers... Don't you realize that this is their plan, to copy same units/abilities essentially over and over so it will be balanced if all factions are similar?

As for the blade-dancer they could've added the battle-runes they mentioned in description to give it chance to evade magic attacks for example, but I suppose it would have been too much work(much easier to just copy existing abilities around!). You don't seriously expect devs to try give this game replay-value, do you? I mean they've been cutting corners ever since the beginning and never stopped so why do you think they would start now? I mean don't get me wrong, I do agree with you, but I just honestly don't see devs doing anything about it as all this has been voiced on SC and HC many times without them ever caring about any of it(in fact they just kept copying the skills over and over, disregarding the concerns).

ChrisD.1
07-05-2015, 02:11 PM
Ohh Chris... The situation is actually worse than what you describe as you aren't including even all creatures that have to abilities! For example hydra is missing from vigilance list(it probably has sweep also) and fire-elemental and stalker have piercing shot(they were already revealed during line-up votes so you could've added them there). Also druid has essentially one time piercing shot with leaf daggers... Don't you realize that this is their plan, to copy same units/abilities essentially over and over so it will be balanced if all factions are similar?

As for the blade-dancer they could've added the battle-runes they mentioned in description to give it chance to evade magic attacks for example, but I suppose it would have been too much work(much easier to just copy existing abilities around!). You don't seriously expect devs to try give this game replay-value, do you? I mean they've been cutting corners ever since the beginning and never stopped so why do you think they would start now? I mean don't get me wrong, I do agree with you, but I just honestly don't see devs doing anything about it as all this has been voiced on SC and HC many times without them ever caring about any of it(in fact they just kept copying the skills over and over, disregarding the concerns).

Well I'm waiting for the dungeon line up :P but I think that if lots of us actually ask for a little more diverse abilities we will get them. And that's why I took the matter here. Do you want for more unique abilities? If yes we must let the devs know.

Antalyan
07-05-2015, 05:04 PM
It is very sad. Ubisoft gave much money for H6 and it was not popular, because some key gameplay elements were very wrong changed and also many bugs were and still are there. Nevertheless, the graphics was great.
For H7, they returned to some features from previous games so they had a big potential to make the best Heroes ever. Unfortunately, they did not invest enough money for development so the game now has lack of originality. Reused some units and map buildings? Ok, I can accept it. But also really stupid units abilities (both lack of them and several again repeated)? It is too much.

Black_Weaver
07-05-2015, 05:37 PM
Fully agree Chris, but I have some questions about your list.
First, sweep ability allows to deal damage to multiple targets only if they are staying on adjacent cells. So you can't deal damage to more than 3 targets using this ability (judging by beta). Blade Master's ability allows him deal damage to ALL creatures within a radius so it is better than sweep, and I'm ok with it. And Vigilance is really useful for Blade Master (because when it is surrounded it can deal damage to all creatures around it and not afraid of flanking attacks), but for Vampire and Ghost it is really useless.
Second, Hunter don't have Piercing shot ability, but double shot as you asked.
Third, Emerald Dragon and Wyvern have not exactly the same abilities. Wyvern's Acid Spit deals damage only to 1 target, and Dragon's Acid Breath affect multiple targets, so they are not the same. Wyverns are resistant to Earth, it's not the same as immune. Far not the same.

But I agree 100% with your idea. My personal wishes:
- Give Lich Death Cloud ability as it is the only one shooter in Necropolis so it must be effective;
- Give Vampire No Retaliation ability because without it life drain becomes nearly useless;
- Give Ghost Incorporeality because it's Ghost after all;
- Give Entagling ablilty to unupgraded Treant as well;
- Remove teleport from Simurgh, it has wings already!

ChrisD.1
07-05-2015, 09:44 PM
simurgh has teleport? hahah indeed that's silly!
I disagree about the blade master. he needs something to buff up his defense!! vigilance doesn't really protect his very low HP!! (if his HP is actually 35).
the emerald dragon should have acid breath as his default attack and not as an ability though!
as for your list I agree about the lich although his "defense reducing cloud" is not that bad too if it actually works:P I wanted the lich to be a spellcaster too and raising some dead also:/
indeed the vigilance for the ghost is really really silly and uninspired! why couldn't they implement incorporeality???
So how do we make these issues known? does anybody else read this?

GMnemonic
07-06-2015, 12:55 PM
This Ubisoft this makes the game soooooooo uninterresting, please redo all creature abbilities and make them unique and momorable, dont be scared to make an actually interresting game instead of carbon copy units with a different skin

ChrisD.1
07-07-2015, 12:24 PM
can someone form the moderateros please pass this along for examining? all we ask is to change 3-4 creature abilities to avoid creatures with exact same abilities!
just make the ghost incorporeal, and give golem another ability since it has low initiative anyways! just please pass this along at least.

Ubi-MoshiMoshi
07-07-2015, 03:32 PM
Hi ChrisD.1, I have passed this along to the development team.

Thank you

Antalyan
07-07-2015, 04:51 PM
I hope for the development team finally makes some decision soon and WILL do the changes whole community is applying for.

GMnemonic
07-08-2015, 12:45 PM
Well this is because these developers are lazy I said it before and said it again, ubisoft locks everything in spell system skill secondary abbilities all factions are basicly carbon copies with a different skin theres nothing interresting at all for any creature to play every faction is basicly the same this kills the game!

This is the biggest concern, second is that the game is ugly the Adventure map is hideous compared to homm 6, and the town screens do not match theres no line. Other then the line of oversimplification, kill the game

GMnemonic
07-08-2015, 12:48 PM
Thank you Ubi Moshi Moshi this is one area this game will get soul and playstyle back. If there's another years work where the devs have the guts to redesign some systems, and polish the adventure map this game will get its quality back,

It will require people to think and build their own skill wheel spells, this will give the game longevety and interresting gameplay

GMnemonic
07-08-2015, 12:49 PM
Also about the creature abbilities why is it so that some creatures have no abbility or first abbility at all?

Black_Weaver
07-11-2015, 06:07 PM
the emerald dragon should have acid breath as his default attack and not as an ability though!
as for your list I agree about the lich although his "defense reducing cloud" is not that bad too if it actually works:P I wanted the lich to be a spellcaster too and raising some dead also:/
YES!! H6 was the first Heroes game where dragon breath was an ability not default attack... I don't understand why but they decided to continue this madness. Their breath always allowed some cool tactical actions, for example force your enemy to deal damage to his own creatures, or deal damage to stronger creature through the weaker one. That was so cool! But now... it remains to hope that devs will hear the voice of the community. If not until the release, then in add-ons, when they will have both time and money.

feidet1
07-12-2015, 09:16 PM
This is especially significant for the line of creatures necromancers in blog comments to the existing players have all described.

Antalyan
07-14-2015, 03:09 PM
As regards emerald dragon, why do you think it is not passive ability?

GMnemonic
07-15-2015, 12:40 PM
Creature abbilities should be completely redone, this developers should be the nr 1 priority,
I will tell you why of all the systems and flaws in the game this is the one most essentiall to the longevity and interrest of the game. If creatures are unique and diverse in their abbilities this will make the base game interresting to play. Thus keeping the game fresh and engaging to play. Now this is not the case, other systems should be redone and polished too, but this shoul be focus nr 1.

Take a page out of the books of Blizzard, see how they design abbilities, past HOMM games, XCOM..

Its better to have diverse abbilities then a balanced game.. balance can always be archieved by number reductions later...

GMnemonic
07-15-2015, 12:42 PM
also a little imbalance in the system gives units characters and they will be remembered longer. Balance is not always interresting, it feels different fighting black dragons if they area lill too strong.

Also about the troops on the map make them more diverse groups to make the game more interresting

Black_Weaver
07-17-2015, 04:40 PM
As regards emerald dragon, why do you think it is not passive ability?
I was misled by the attack animation on the emerald dragon page. But in the interview JedynyHex posted it is clearly seen that it's dragon default attack. And it's very good.

Arthyen
07-23-2015, 01:10 PM
Hm, it looks like MMH6 will be the best game in the series, from visuals to gameplay...this will be a pale shadow of a game.