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Dead1y-Derri
07-01-2015, 01:28 PM
One thing that I have which I feel is a valid concern is you might end up getting in a lot of situations where it is 1 hero vs 2 or maybe 3 heroes and those who are partying up with their friends will have a huge advantage over a team of 4 random heroes and in these situations could just go around as a group eliminating opponents who are alone. In the demo it shows heroes backing off and not really dealing with 1v2 situations all that much so I'm wondering how they intend to balance it out a bit.

I was wondering if the development team any comments on this point?

Mr_Shade
07-01-2015, 01:55 PM
Teamplay will play a large part of the game - if it comes down to the end game and there's 3 vs 1 - then that's something that can't really be avoided - if the other players are dead..


Yeah - you might have friends clubbing together - but the same with all online games - if you can't beat them - join them!


I'm sure many people on here will stay friends in and out of game ;)


I'm sure the team will look into options though - game modes where you can't group up in the same game - I suppose is one option.

SerWarhammer
07-01-2015, 02:22 PM
in my opinion, this will not be a big problem. If a team decides to remain grouped, would leave exposed the objectives of the mission allowing enemies to move freely on the battlefield. then we might have some fighting 2 vs 1 that from what we saw from a gameplay seem hard to manage but not impossible. then if at the end when players can not respawn will also be situations 4 vs 1 but this is inevitable if your team sucks :) if you ever come to a 4 vs 1 recalls .... "death is a moment, but glory is forever ";)

Dead1y-Derri
07-01-2015, 02:38 PM
in my opinion, this will not be a big problem. If a team decides to remain grouped, would leave exposed the objectives of the mission allowing enemies to move freely on the battlefield. then we might have some fighting 2 vs 1 that from what we saw from a gameplay seem hard to manage but not impossible. then if at the end when players can not respawn will also be situations 4 vs 1 but this is inevitable if your team sucks :) if you ever come to a 4 vs 1 recalls .... "death is a moment, but glory is forever ";)

It might not be a problem but then it might be one.



Teamplay will play a large part of the game - if it comes down to the end game and there's 3 vs 1 - then that's something that can't really be avoided - if the other players are dead..


Yeah - you might have friends clubbing together - but the same with all online games - if you can't beat them - join them!


I'm sure many people on here will stay friends in and out of game ;)


I'm sure the team will look into options though - game modes where you can't group up in the same game - I suppose is one option.

Of course I know its going to be a team focused game and that playing as a team will be essential but at the same time if you're paired with a team of randoms communication can become a problem. I was therefore thinking that the Devs might consider putting in a boost for the last hero standing. Nothing significant maybe an extra piece of equipment or an extra one of those things that are like an arrow storm. Just something to make it slightly more on an even keel.

SerWarhammer
07-01-2015, 02:44 PM
Of course I know its going to be a team focused game and that playing as a team will be essential but at the same time if you're paired with a team of randoms communication can become a problem. I was therefore thinking that the Devs might consider putting in a boost for the last hero standing. Nothing significant maybe an extra piece of equipment or an extra one of those things that are like an arrow storm. Just something to make it slightly more on an even keel.

you have my support.... and my ax ;) good idea

Dead1y-Derri
07-01-2015, 02:50 PM
you have my support.... and my ax ;) good idea

LOL :) Love the reference :)

It was something that came to mind while playing The Last of Us which the Multiplayer for that game is VERY team based. Essentially the last standing person once re-spawning has stopped can go to equipment boxes and get some more useful stuff such as pre-crafted items to help fight the enemies.

If we had something like this then I'd say it could be a way of balancing it out because even a skilled player and I mean a really skilled player would struggle against 3 average players.

I suppose as we get more information about the game, maybe this won't be such a problem.

Fatal-Feit
07-01-2015, 03:42 PM
Honestly, I don't think it will be an issue because, as SerWarhammer said, ganging up may be a bad idea. Those players will leave the other places unoccupied. It's unfortunate for the one player, but it's an advantage in the long run. So, really, I believe the balance is there.

Also, the CD spoke about this a lot in interviews. He mentions that when you're going up against 2-3 players, find a door or wall so you don't have to worry about your back.

It may be a good strategy, actually. Let one skilled player lure 2-3 members and hold them off while the rest of the team get the capture points.

Warphorntek
07-01-2015, 04:07 PM
I would bother with this after alfa. Wish i am going be in :rolleyes::rolleyes:

naphack
07-01-2015, 05:33 PM
Same as with any other multiplayer game: If you get ganged up on, just dig in and survive for as long as possible.
Use corners, doors and stairs to your advantage. When you get ganged up on, your aim is to buy time for reinforcements to arrive or for your team to capture empty points. If you are alone vs 3 at the end, you surely can't blame the fact, you are 1v3 for you losing the game. It just means that whatever led to the situation at hand, they did right and you did wrong.

The only thing required is that the game actually allows for stalling 1v3, which so far it seems to do: The devs spoke of friendly fire and the blocks are effective at keeping opponents at bay. 1v3 just means, you won't be doing a lot of attacking, but you can still hang on and maneuver yourself into a defensible position.

The only thing that makes me worried here is the guard break move. A well timed combination attack might be impossible to stop... But that's generally, how you win a 2v1 quickly. One tackles him, the other finishes him off.

iTz_ayePatch
07-01-2015, 08:52 PM
Same as with any other multiplayer game: If you get ganged up on, just dig in and survive for as long as possible.
Use corners, doors and stairs to your advantage. When you get ganged up on, your aim is to buy time for reinforcements to arrive or for your team to capture empty points. If you are alone vs 3 at the end, you surely can't blame the fact, you are 1v3 for you losing the game. It just means that whatever led to the situation at hand, they did right and you did wrong.Well said bro!

You know what they say, "Live to fight another day" but of course besides day it would fight I guess :p

Doctrinaire
07-02-2015, 02:59 PM
there is a con if 2 or 3 players gang up to take on one. the other teams remaining members will be capturing control points.

UbiVolfbane
07-02-2015, 04:12 PM
there is a con if 2 or 3 players gang up to take on one. the other teams remaining members will be capturing control points.

Like any other team based game.. teamwork and communication will land you a huge advantage. Sometimes it could be a tactic or a distraction. :cool:
Just never let your guard down and do it for the team!

Beas7ie
07-04-2015, 12:48 AM
In the demo the last Samurai was up against two Knights but with strategy he was able to win. Make proper use of your skills and the environment and if things look really bad then *Monty Python voices*

RUN AWAY!

Doctrinaire
07-04-2015, 04:46 AM
that is my favorite quote from Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail...'Run Away Run Away!'.

next to, 'it's just a little rabbit, it can't hurt us, la de da'. LOL!

Solid_Altair
07-05-2015, 12:59 PM
The only thing required is that the game actually allows for stalling 1v3, which so far it seems to do: The devs spoke of friendly fire and the blocks are effective at keeping opponents at bay. 1v3 just means, you won't be doing a lot of attacking, but you can still hang on and maneuver yourself into a defensible position.

The only thing that makes me worried here is the guard break move. A well timed combination attack might be impossible to stop... But that's generally, how you win a 2v1 quickly. One tackles him, the other finishes him off.
Precisely. I think footwork, or simply running away, in and around an obective (to contest it for longer) will the way to go when you're outnumbered. I think you can't stand your ground with parries if they use some specific combinations of attack and guard break. If you don't wanna run, your standard defense should be keeping your guard at the side of the flanker, being prepared to react to attacks by the guy you're targetting and prepared to side step guard break attempts (stepping away from the other guy). But even then, maybe they could trigger your auto-parry to stagger you so you'd be unable to side step the guard break. So... in and out with fast lunging attacks, like those of the Oni, seems to be your fool's hope in 1v2s. But if your team has respawns, just run.

In 2v2, I think the dominating tactic will be for both players to target one enemy. So, a guy faces an enemy and his teammate becomes the flanker-flanked. He targets the same enemy, while being targeted by the second enemy. And this is good because you can easily parry a flanker.. and even if he guard break you (in the open), you won't take damage, because his buddy is targetting you.

In 2v3, both players should target the enemy in the middle, for similar reasons as above.

I can really see players developing a Wing Man relationship. Not only will we have our teams of four, but there will probably be specific duos with heightened teamwork between them.

The key "balancing" elements in the Art of Battle system are:

* You can parry a flanker by simply pointing at his side, regardles of the direction of his attack.

* Right after a succesful parry you automatically parry any attack against you. It may be the bad kind of parry, though, the one that leaves you staggered, in (frame) disadvantage. So it's not all sunshine and rainbows. In fact, enemies might use this to lock you in place so one of them can guard brake you and the other can get a guaranteed shot in.

I wonder if they should buff this auto-parry thingy, to not make the guy suffer a guard crush when parrying a second enemy. Then perhaps there would actually be a chance to stand your ground.

I'm basing this stuff on the gameplay footage in interviews. I'm not making specific references, but if you're curious I can provide them for ya. :)

Willaguy2010
07-05-2015, 10:05 PM
In the Masterclass one of the devs said that if someone is ganged up on then they wouldn't have to worry about blocking each and every one of them. If for example, you had one person in front of you, and another to your right, you would have to worry about every direction of blocking with the person in front of you, but blocking to the right would block any attacks from the attacker on the right, regardless of which stance he is attacking from.

Kamzgdx
07-08-2015, 03:23 PM
One of my concerns or question would be:

Let's say one of my team mates gets outplayed and is about to take a clean hit from their opponent.

Would it be possible for another player to block the attack on their behalf, effectively saving them from damage and even death.?

Serdones
07-08-2015, 06:18 PM
I think it was during the MasterClass panel that they explained when you're ganged up on, you can use the environment to your advantage (such as backing yourself into a corner) and also you'll only have to block attacks from the directions they come. So if you're engaging two enemies, one of which is in front of you while the other is to your right, you'll only need to block right to defend against the person on your right. That's not a foolproof defense and you'll still be at a disadvantage, but it does sound like there will be tools at your disposal to defend against gank situations, so it all doesn't just boil down to numbers while factoring out skill.

the_don7684
07-08-2015, 06:31 PM
In the demo the last Samurai was up against two Knights but with strategy he was able to win. Make proper use of your skills and the environment and if things look really bad then *Monty Python voices*

RUN AWAY!

This made me laugh pretty hard hahahahaha

the_don7684
07-08-2015, 06:35 PM
It will be interesting to see how the game play pans out and how people will adapt to the "unfair" situations that will arise.

Havemercy87
07-09-2015, 01:16 AM
"Run Away!" LMAO.. Good times..

Anyway, while reading these last cpl posts I had a vision.. A very bad vision.

So I come running out of a doorway and angle right and smack right into 2 Vikings, I immediately think of the door that's behind me and turn for a run pass the door to set a defense, except I forget I angled right and run smack into a wall. Worse yet my sensitivity is just low enough that I can't spin around fast enough and I'm slayed by the 2 Vikings before I can lock on and get a guard up..

Remember this vision and keep in mind of the surroundings and never reveal your back to your adversary, unless you can be sure of escaping. Still best to keep them in front though.

Solid_Altair
07-09-2015, 10:54 AM
One of my concerns or question would be:

Let's say one of my team mates gets outplayed and is about to take a clean hit from their opponent.

Would it be possible for another player to block the attack on their behalf, effectively saving them from damage and even death.?
You can hit the guy to interrupt his attack. But unless you stay between him and your friend so that he can't even target your friend, I don't think you'll be able to parry the attack.

Havemercy87
07-09-2015, 02:41 PM
You can hit the guy to interrupt his attack. But unless you stay between him and your friend so that he can't even target your friend, I don't think you'll be able to parry the attack.


One of my concerns or question would be:

Let's say one of my team mates gets outplayed and is about to take a clean hit from their opponent.

Would it be possible for another player to block the attack on their behalf, effectively saving them from damage and even death.?

Solid is right in his assessment imo... On this note I'd like to add a suggestion. I'd like to see a feat, passive would be most efficient, that would lock an opponent on to you after first hit. If that opponent wished they could release and relock onto to previous fighter, but I doubt that would be the case. Maybe make it class only feat. Thanks for listening!

Kamzgdx
07-09-2015, 07:55 PM
Solid is right in his assessment imo... On this note I'd like to add a suggestion. I'd like to see a feat, passive would be most efficient, that would lock an opponent on to you after first hit. If that opponent wished they could release and relock onto to previous fighter, but I doubt that would be the case. Maybe make it class only feat. Thanks for listening!

Like a TAUNT ability, now this is a great idea.
EVen if it's just a split second forcing the player to re-lock, it could easily be the difference between surviving/dying in a fight.

Deadshot.
07-09-2015, 11:05 PM
I am reminded of the trailer with this topic.
Remember that the player came out to see a teammate fighting two opponents... he took on one, and was nearly killed - but his teammate blocked the opponent's final strike with his shield.

Here's my question - do the health bars slowly fill back up?
The guy that was down on the ground in the trailer managed to get back up and finish off his opponent.
He seemed to be in the "other player press any button to do a fatality" mode, before his partner blocked the attack.
This would definitely make teamwork much more excellent.... and maybe promote running away at some points (unfortunately).

Havemercy87
07-09-2015, 11:54 PM
Like a TAUNT ability, now this is a great idea.
EVen if it's just a split second forcing the player to re-lock, it could easily be the difference between surviving/dying in a fight.

Exactly! I don't imagine a player going back to the original when he has another player on him, but you never know.



I am reminded of the trailer with this topic.
Remember that the player came out to see a teammate fighting two opponents... he took on one, and was nearly killed - but his teammate blocked the opponent's final strike with his shield.

Here's my question - do the health bars slowly fill back up?
The guy that was down on the ground in the trailer managed to get back up and finish off his opponent.
He seemed to be in the "other player press any button to do a fatality" mode, before his partner blocked the attack.
This would definitely make teamwork much more excellent.... and maybe promote running away at some points (unfortunately).

I don't know about refilling over time by itself of course, but in the first gameplay demo I noticed the warden has a health Boost feat. I imagine that this will be a universal feat.

Deadshot.
07-10-2015, 12:07 AM
Ah...brilliant. That makes some good sense.
I was thinking of trying to determine what all four of the feats were. Really sad to see NO footage for the Vikings.
Regardless.... looks like the fourth one is the "arrow storm" for everyone.
The second one looked like the "shuriken throw" for the samurai.

Anybody else catch the others?
This post may need to be moved to a different thread. I think I'm off topic now. Sorry.

Havemercy87
07-10-2015, 01:14 AM
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203173074767559&id=1828417992&set=a.1038375179476.6190.1828417992&source=48https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203173073047516&id=1828417992&set=a.1038375179476.6190.1828417992&source=48

These were the best I could get, but good enough for now.. I'm pretty sure the wardens first 2 are troop commands, which I think they could do differently. That's for another time.. Thoughts on feats?


Umm.. Can someone help me post a cpl pics ��

Solid_Altair
07-10-2015, 08:02 PM
I liked the taunt idea.

How about a taunt where you have to actually hit the guy (not just attack him). But as a compensation, you'd last longer. He'd only be able to attack you.

I don't think taunts would be OP, because 2v1 situations you have the fight pretty much won anyways. Their application would be very specific (rare), so it's OK if they have an intense effect.

Havemercy87
07-11-2015, 12:27 AM
I liked the taunt idea.

How about a taunt where you have to actually hit the guy (not just attack him). But as a compensation, you'd last longer. He'd only be able to attack you.

I don't think taunts would be OP, because 2v1 situations you have the fight pretty much won anyways. Their application would be very specific (rare), so it's OK if they have an intense effect.

Yes, you would have to land a strike on that person and it would then force them to lock on you.

I don't think it would be that rare actually. I would use it alot, basically whenever I seen a teammate on the bad end of a 1v2. Granted I can reach them in time.

Fatal-Feit
07-11-2015, 05:09 AM
I liked the taunt idea.

How about a taunt where you have to actually hit the guy (not just attack him). But as a compensation, you'd last longer. He'd only be able to attack you.

I don't think taunts would be OP, because 2v1 situations you have the fight pretty much won anyways. Their application would be very specific (rare), so it's OK if they have an intense effect.

Mildly related, but I would love for a taunting system similar to DMC, where you can do specific taunt animations after performing certain feats. Like, if you perform a taunt after killing a players without losing health, your character will put up his arms with a ''is that it?'' kind of gesture. Sometimes it's the little things that could really improve the immersion in games.

Havemercy87
07-11-2015, 01:11 PM
Mildly related, but I would love for a taunting system similar to DMC, where you can do specific taunt animations after performing certain feats. Like, if you perform a taunt after killing a players without losing health, your character will put up his arms with a ''is that it?'' kind of gesture. Sometimes it's the little things that could really improve the immersion in games.

They already have this.. In the one gameplay demo the knight beats his chest after slaying his opponent.. But I'm definitely in agreement. They could add taunts as a purchase. They need lots of purchases and unlock options to keep replayability up.

Although it is For Honor, replayability is up already..

TheLight-Boogey
07-13-2015, 04:03 PM
I believe the fact that there is friendly fire makes it so getting ganged up on isn't an automatic death for you. Being able to use the enemy team against each other will give you a fighting chance.

premiumart
07-15-2015, 11:42 AM
From what i ve seen in the gameplay walkthrough, it seemed to me that going in a full group of 4 could be a useful tactic.

Yes the team that moves as group cant capture all points, but they could always capture one when they d move from point to point slaying enemies capturing, because they would earn points for killing heroes but the enemie wouldnt so the "swarm team" would earn points through killing while the enemy team gets points only through holding the capture points.

But a game designer wouldnt be a game designer without thinking about something like this also this strategy could easily be countered by another whole group of 4.

In the end i think this could be a problem for new players, but i think people would learn quickly that you have to regroup if the whole team comes at you.

HitMan00
07-15-2015, 08:50 PM
if it's 3 or 4 against one, just try your best to take one of them out. Do it the warrior's way go down fighting and take as much of them down with you. so next time they know who they f*** with.

guest-7lONTXP5
07-15-2015, 11:27 PM
Just run while your team holds the capture points and they can't do anything about it^^

premiumart
07-17-2015, 10:05 AM
if it's 3 or 4 against one, just try your best to take one of them out. Do it the warrior's way go down fighting and take as much of them down with you. so next time they know who they f*** with.

As long as you could attack one at a time this would be possible but in a scenario like this one guy could focus on blocking while the others attack you from other sides.

But i dont know how the system works, in the gameplay walkthrough it seemed like the system prioritizes incoming attacks so if you get attacked by another enemy from the side while you are locked into fighting, the camera switches to that enemy so you could block the incoming attack or react to it by dodging.

The question is if enemies could attack simultaneously, if so that would be unblockable.

Solid_Altair
07-17-2015, 11:37 PM
The question is if enemies could attack simultaneously, if so that would be unblockable.
Nope. If enemies attack at the same time (or roughly the same), you actually only need to parry the first one and youwill automatically parry the others.

The real question is: can they lock you place with these automatic parries so that one of the guard break you and another land a guaranteed hit on you?

Fatal-Feit
07-18-2015, 03:10 AM
They already have this.. In the one gameplay demo the knight beats his chest after slaying his opponent.. But I'm definitely in agreement. They could add taunts as a purchase. They need lots of purchases and unlock options to keep replayability up.

Although it is For Honor, replayability is up already..

I know the taunting system is there, but I mean the one that's in DMC, where performing certain feats allows you to use a special animation. Like, in DMC3, if you perform a taunt with SSS rank, Dante will activated a special taunt.

I also agree with your idea. I'm down for purchasing different animations. I'd honestly like to see them take it further and allow you to buy different running/stand/etc animations. Something that helps make your character more unique.

Havemercy87
07-18-2015, 03:46 AM
I know the taunting system is there, but I mean the one that's in DMC, where performing certain feats allows you to use a special animation. Like, in DMC3, if you perform a taunt with SSS rank, Dante will activated a special taunt.

I also agree with your idea. I'm down for purchasing different animations. I'd honestly like to see them take it further and allow you to buy different running/stand/etc animations. Something that helps make your character more unique.

Oh I see what you mean now. Yes I definitely agree with that. Actually I'd be a bit upset if they don't. I don't know so much about the running, but to have a different stance from the guy next to me who also happens to be same class would be cool. I'm holding my breath, but I do hope we get it...

Fatal-Feit
07-18-2015, 10:41 PM
Oh I see what you mean now. Yes I definitely agree with that. Actually I'd be a bit upset if they don't. I don't know so much about the running, but to have a different stance from the guy next to me who also happens to be same class would be cool. I'm holding my breath, but I do hope we get it...

No other company does animations better than Ubisoft, IMO. It was always one of my favorite things about AC's MP. Being able to customize the animations and all. *fingers crossed*

Dead1y-Derri
07-18-2015, 11:32 PM
No other company does animations better than Ubisoft, IMO. It was always one of my favorite things about AC's MP. Being able to customize the animations and all. *fingers crossed*

I dunno, I'm not saying this because I'm a playstation fan but Naughty Dog has done some amazing animations in the past. Ubisoft is great though.

Fatal-Feit
07-19-2015, 11:13 PM
I dunno, I'm not saying this because I'm a playstation fan but Naughty Dog has done some amazing animations in the past. Ubisoft is great though.

I was thinking of Naughty Dog as well, but their titles are mostly a linear and scripted experience. When you consider the open world aspect of something like AC, it's more remarkable, IMO.

Dead1y-Derri
07-19-2015, 11:20 PM
I was thinking of Naughty Dog as well, but their titles are mostly a linear and scripted experience. When you consider the open world aspect of something like AC, it's more remarkable, IMO.

I do agree they are linear but they still offer amazing animations and then obviously you've got the unscripted moments of fights and the animation is spot on and quite realistic. I think both companies bring a lot to the table.

If you take a look at some of the animations in The Last of Us and on the MP modes, pretty brutal and amazing.

Fatal-Feit
07-19-2015, 11:49 PM
I do agree they are linear but they still offer amazing animations and then obviously you've got the unscripted moments of fights and the animation is spot on and quite realistic. I think both companies bring a lot to the table.

If you take a look at some of the animations in The Last of Us and on the MP modes, pretty brutal and amazing.

Yeah, the animations in Naughty Dog games are still pretty awesome. Especially in TLOU. I can't think of a better rival for Ubisoft.

Havemercy87
07-20-2015, 01:54 AM
The Last of Us looks amazing, I'm actually planning on getting the LTOU PS4 bundle. Although I'd really like to get that For Honor PS4 (winks at Ubisoft ; ) )

Maccaroth
08-20-2015, 05:23 PM
There are only 3 zones in a game with 4 players per team. This means the possible combinations are as follows:

2 - 2
3 - 1
2 - 1 - 1

2 - 2 seems to be the strongest one, because if one group meets a lone enemy they can try to overwhelm him and capture the point, then send one guy to capture another, while the other group will most likely have equal numbers to contest the last zone. In such composition I imagine making good use of teamwork and not getting into each other's way will be a priority to get the most out of it.

Unless enemy team goes 3 - 1 on your 2 - 2 setup and the lone guy goes for the uncontested zone. He will claim it and do the work that the other two of your team members are doing (effectively cutting your gain and forcing you to split, to contest the zone), while your second group will be forced to fight against three people. Of course, it can only work if the lone guy won't end up running into two enemy people and there is no guarantee that the 3-man team will win, because their sheer number can make killing two enemies problematic...

The most risky strategy seems to be 2 - 1 -1. You will surely claim at least one zone, but one man will be at a disadvantage (if enemy goes with 2 - 2 setup) and the rest of your group won't have the advantage of numerical superiority. It means it's down to how your group will fight as victory there will grant superiority on the field. In case of meeting 3 - 1 setup you will have equal chances of contesting at least one zone, claim one zone for certain and be at a disadvantage at the last objective. So it's down to your best dueler basically to win you superiority.

Of course, I imagine that in game there will be much more factors involved, such as players' skill. Numbers are not everything, as we saw in the E3 trailer, where the last surviving Samurai managed to kill all knights, including the last 2 vs 1 combat.