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View Full Version : Who thinks the 109 lineage has lost some individuality?



Jumoschwanz
02-16-2004, 05:53 PM
With the last few patches I noticed the 109s all handle exactly alike. The E, F and G models all turn and stall and handle the same at the same speeds. Also the power seems screwed up. I thought the g2 was about as powerful as all the later 109s, and if you look at Il2compare it is backed up.
IN earlier patches the E model outhandled the later 109s, the F was the best all around, and the G models were faster but suffered a bit in the handling department. This is how it is in the history books right?
Everyone is flying the g2 online now because it handles as well as the E and is just a bit down on speed compared to the later ones with boost. And the engine never blows or overheats.
I used to enjoy flying the E and F because they had extra handling for turn and burn fights that I enjoy and am good at. Now I can fly the g2 and have all the handling of the E and all the power of the later plane.
I have seen posts and polls on what folks want to see in upcoming patches. And this is what I know best, and would like; some individuality put back into the 109 line.

Thanks,

Jumoschwanz

Jumoschwanz
02-16-2004, 05:53 PM
With the last few patches I noticed the 109s all handle exactly alike. The E, F and G models all turn and stall and handle the same at the same speeds. Also the power seems screwed up. I thought the g2 was about as powerful as all the later 109s, and if you look at Il2compare it is backed up.
IN earlier patches the E model outhandled the later 109s, the F was the best all around, and the G models were faster but suffered a bit in the handling department. This is how it is in the history books right?
Everyone is flying the g2 online now because it handles as well as the E and is just a bit down on speed compared to the later ones with boost. And the engine never blows or overheats.
I used to enjoy flying the E and F because they had extra handling for turn and burn fights that I enjoy and am good at. Now I can fly the g2 and have all the handling of the E and all the power of the later plane.
I have seen posts and polls on what folks want to see in upcoming patches. And this is what I know best, and would like; some individuality put back into the 109 line.

Thanks,

Jumoschwanz

VW-IceFire
02-16-2004, 06:03 PM
Interesting comments. I cannot disagree although I must say that my skew is toward the late models (the G-10, G-14, and K-4).

I thought I had read that the G-6 was heavier than the G-2 and didn't handle quite as nicely but it was fairly close so it didn't make too much difference adopting the pilot styles. Even so I had thought that the G-2 was a pretty good plane in terms of the handeling but that the F-4 was supposed to have the best turn circle.

I tend to think that the earlier models aren't quite evened out properly.

I think if you look across the board however...you'll see some good individuality.

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JG27_Dacripler
02-16-2004, 10:32 PM
Not really.
In terms of year and plane set. I think the F-2 F-4 are still quite turnable and the E Models still are pretty slow in most everything but make up for it in firepower. A F-4 and a G-2 (with gunpods) are very much alike but the G-2 has a slight advantage in Energy retention.
The G-6 Models are alike in the exception of the G-6 A/S which holds the nice motor and will pull out of turns pretty nice.. It is a contrast of the G-14 which does not hold up to its bargain which the G-6 A/S is better handling and gets altitude quicker... The G-10 is a great balance of firepower and handling, not as quick as the G-6 A/S but seems to hold a better "line" when it is confronted with speed and stall situations.. It is the 2nd best in climb rate with the K-4 in front by a great margin. Trade offs: K-4 Raw power with poor elevator for a lesser engine and quicker handling.. Add any gunpods on a K-4 and it is not nearly as noticible with a Late G- series aircraft. G- Series get a doggy feeling with gunpods and on rare occasions will use them. (in the exception of the early G-2)
K-4 is a great Z&B aircraft and you find it out quick. I don't care for the Z&B tactics in a 109 Series and work hard to keep things at a low to intermediate flight level where all the action is. Arguably the purpose of flying the 109 is to Z&B but I am finding out quick they do nice in many roles in this game.

DONB3397
02-16-2004, 11:12 PM
The G-2 and G-6 are similar in several respects, I think; but the E-4 has a much slower acceleration, lower climb rate...basically seems a slower and less effective a/c. I don't fly the F's very much, but the K-4 is a one-purpose design; it climbs fast and carries big firepower to beat up allied bombers. To me, the K-4 seems less stable when flying low and slow. Last night in the K-4, I got into a low altitude, slow turning fight with an La-5, fell out of a turn and got creamed as soon as I corrected and leveled out. It wasn't the first time.

Still, the series is fun to fly, and the FM for some of the variants seem pretty distinct still.

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crazyivan1970
02-16-2004, 11:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
With the last few patches I noticed the 109s all handle exactly alike. The E, F and G models all turn and stall and handle the same at the same speeds. Also the power seems screwed up. I thought the g2 was about as powerful as all the later 109s, and if you look at Il2compare it is backed up.
IN earlier patches the E model outhandled the later 109s, the F was the best all around, and the G models were faster but suffered a bit in the handling department. This is how it is in the history books right?
Everyone is flying the g2 online now because it handles as well as the E and is just a bit down on speed compared to the later ones with boost. And the engine never blows or overheats.
I used to enjoy flying the E and F because they had extra handling for turn and burn fights that I enjoy and am good at. Now I can fly the g2 and have all the handling of the E and all the power of the later plane.
I have seen posts and polls on what folks want to see in upcoming patches. And this is what I know best, and would like; some individuality put back into the 109 line.

Thanks,

Jumoschwanz<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With all due respect, As a full time 109 junkie, not agreeing with ya Jumo. Each 109 is a quiet a character IMO. Even G6 and G6 late are very different.
As far as it goes for G-2, I`v come across some comments from soviet pilots that it was most dangerous opponent in 109s family because it could do both, horizontal and vertical manuevers. Just my 02c

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Jumoschwanz
02-17-2004, 12:15 AM
WEll Ivan you get in your f4 and I will get in a g2 and you can show me how it is done. Name the place and time. I would like that better than you talking about me on your server when you "think" I am not there and telling everyone I am full of $hit "(he is a good guy, I don't know wtf happened to him"). I will back up my words ok? That offer extends to anyone who wants a match to prove what they "think".

Jumoschwanz

cd.jakevas
02-17-2004, 12:20 AM
lol, ok. that time of the month jumo.

well anyways, ill have to disagree also. each 109 has its own charateristics, to me at least.

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crazyivan1970
02-17-2004, 10:16 AM
Check your privat topics Jumo.

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Franzen
02-17-2004, 10:20 AM
OOOOOOOOOOOOO! There's gonna be a dogfight! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif Place your bets!

Fritz Franzen

XyZspineZyX
02-17-2004, 10:36 AM
No. I don't think the 109s "all fly alike".

The very late models have more of a sense of "sameness", but the earlier models all have their own little personalities. While it is true that a certain mindset and flying style (use the climb!) apply to all 109s, they still have sub-personalities).

The difference between a G2 and a G6, for instance is HUGE. In a G2 you can fly "cute" and very subtly. Do the same kind of flying in a G6 and, if you don't lawndart, you'll get shot like a dog. The G6 makes you do much broader (but more powerful) moves, where the G2 has a tighter response curve.

I've mentioned several times the F2 and F4's artificially modeled "Banana Peel Snap Stall", which seemingly can't be trimmed out, and is absent in both the Es and Gs (and should be absent, since the 109 family did not have nasty spin or stall characteristics except at landing, when a sudden left wingdrop sometimes occured). This "invented snapstall tendency" is a real pain in the butt, and stops the Franzes from being the top-notch dogfighters of the series that they ought to be.

The Es are nice little dogfighters, if (naturally) underpowered to one who has a lot of time in later machines. Also, since it has twin wing cannon, it's employment in gunnery is totally different than any other 109 (with the exception of Kannonboot wing pod Gs).

Slammin_
02-17-2004, 10:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
WEll Ivan you get in your f4 and I will get in a g2 and you can show me how it is done. Name the place and time. I would like that better than you talking about me on your server when you "think" I am not there and telling everyone I am full of $hit "(he is a good guy, I don't know wtf happened to him"). I will back up my words ok? That offer extends to anyone who wants a match to prove what they "think".

Jumoschwanz<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


So you are saying there really is a difference between the f4 and g2 afterall?

georgeo76
02-17-2004, 12:11 PM
Well Jumo, if you really believe what your saying, why do you want the G2? Seems to me that you could do just as well flying an Emil; since they're all the same right?

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Korolov
02-17-2004, 02:38 PM
All seem to be different to me, even between the G-6 and its Late version.

I'd be happy to duel your G-2 in my G-6. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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Jumoschwanz
02-17-2004, 08:24 PM
Sorry about my ego guys, my apologies Ivan. My meds are off some days. I have gone into one on one servers a number of times online and tested things out.

It will be interesting to do a g2 vs f4, at low alt to eliminate the up and down factor a bit.

And I think the g2 will kick the g6 all over the place.

This sounds like fun. See you online, S!

mortoma
02-19-2004, 09:20 AM
Well they do have less difference between them these days but still have their own characters to some extent. Just not as much as they used to. But in all honesty, the two closest in everything should be the G-6 and G6 late, and I can tell the difference between the two. The Late seems a hair faster than the G-6, so there's your difference for you. And that is supposed to be the only difference between them historically, as far as performance traits. The E-7 is faster than E-4 and the E-4B is slower than either of those two. Again this is probably the main difference historically there too. And there are many handling differences in the whole series in my opinion.